smoking ban

[TommyT]

at the end of the day, tobacco is a drug, the same as alcohol is - a legal one, maybe, but in just the same way that anyone drinking every single day would be classed an alcoholic,

The definition of alcoholic is something that's open to a lot of argument (and those who have a vested interest in classing people as alcoholics are always more generous in "awarding" the tag - what a shocker!) Anyway, given the reasonably widespread evidence of the medical benefits of a single glass of red wine per day, I would say that simply classing "somebody who drinks everyday" as a guaranteed alcoholic is simplistic tosh.

so someone who smokes every single day is an addict. funny thing, then, that the only people i've seen to protest the ban is those who fall into that category.

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see. There are a number of people who oppose it as an infringement on civil liberties, on choice, and as another example of creeping nanny-state-ism.

tobacco contains ammonia, arsenic, and formeldahyde among others, and around 600 people die every single year just from passive smoking.

Is this nationally or globally? Either way, I doubt that such a claim would withstand a vigorous analysis.

this ban is NOT an infringement on the human rights of those who smoke

Well, actually it is. If a bunch of mates and I all bought a private club bar, said that we were all quite happy for people to smoke there, refused to employ anybody except smokers or people who said that smoke didn't bother them, if we all sat in the building that we owned and somebody had a cigarette, that person could be arrested, and as owners of the club we could be in trouble too.

smokers, you're not losing the right to make your own choice over whether to smoke or not - smoking itself is not illegal. you're simply losing the ability to damage others through your smoking. and let's face it, if you still did have the choice of smoking in pubs and such, you wouldn't make the choice not to.

This is the thing that gets me. It's not like smokers are not used to having to do without. There are plenty of restaurants, theatres, offices, airlines, trains, museums, galleries, shopping centres etc which were all non-smoking before the ban. And with pretty much no trouble. And smokers are the vast minority. Hell there were even a few non-smoking Wetherspoons pubs in Glasgow when I was there last year before the ban came in. Why did they have to legislate against all places? What's wrong with letting the market decide and regulate? Given that a majority of the population are both non-smokers and in favour of smoke-free venues, why not let the consumer demand from all the non-smokers set up a de facto ban? In any town where there are half a dozen pubs competing in the same market, why not let some of them pick up a load of new and grateful customers by going smoke-free voluntarily? The whole secondhand smoke thing is just a smokescreen, to use a lousy pun. It's nanny state trying to save the smokers from themselves. I confidently predict that if this lot continue, there will eventually be legislation to restrict either drinking or food deemed to be overly unhealthy.

 

'there's no proof that passive smoking is dangerous' - can you be any more dense? if smoking in itself causes cancer among loads of other diseases, then of course breathing in the smoke from others' cigarettes is going to be dangerous.

It's all got to do with dosage. Sucking down lungful after lungful of the filth that is cigarette smoke, from a specially designed delivery tube, a mere inch or two from the smoke's point of creation, is a whole world of difference away from inhaling a mere fraction of the smoke and pollutants diluted myriad times by litres (and in even a small room, thousands of litres) of ordinary air. In such hugely reduced concentrations the danger may be virtually nil, or no more dangerous than breathing the air in any of our traffic-congested towns and cities.

X-rays require the use of a radioactive source, but having the occasional X-ray won't kill you; sitting next to a whacking great rock of plutonium will.

[wyrdsister]

so someone who smokes every single day is an addict. funny thing, then, that the only people i've seen to protest the ban is those who fall into that category.

 

 

Actually that's not strickly true, I've had conversations with non smokers who are againsts the ban on the same grounds as I am.

 

I just think it's unfortunate that people see this as a good thing. And before anyone jumps at my throat, try and see beyond the smoking issue and the reality of what it means for a government dictating on personal choice!

[showmasters]

this ban is NOT an infringement on the human rights of those who smoke

Well, actually it is. If a bunch of mates and I all bought a private club bar, said that we were all quite happy for people to smoke there, refused to employ anybody except smokers or people who said that smoke didn't bother them, if we all sat in the building that we owned and somebody had a cigarette, that person could be arrested, and as owners of the club we could be in trouble too.

 

Not quite true. Private members clubs are exempt from the ban, so in the scenario you just outlined, you'd all be able to smoke quite happily.

[roxy]

My problem with the ban is what it represents. I smoke, and I'm not ashamed of it. But I will be persecuted for using a product that is legally available. Health grounds are always given as a reason, but if that were the only reason, surely the sales of all tobacco products should be stopped. That's not going to happen, I wonder why...

 

...................................

 

The real question is this: should governments legislate personal choice?

 

Hear hear, my problem exactly.

 

Pure hypocrisy........smoking is V bad and therefore has to be completely banned from pretty much all public - enclosed - arenas (so that leaves home/car and the open air for me, plus possibly a smoking lifetime of standing outside all public buildings in rainy England, O joy...as a 'considerate' smoker who doesn't like the idea of polluting other non-smokers' environment I've always taken the principle and practice on board) but the point is you can't blanket relegate a whole section of society whilst you're blithely allowing the sale of said product in vast quantities and making the relevant amount of profit!

 

Is it just me?!

[TommyT]

this ban is NOT an infringement on the human rights of those who smoke

Well, actually it is. If a bunch of mates and I all bought a private club bar, said that we were all quite happy for people to smoke there, refused to employ anybody except smokers or people who said that smoke didn't bother them, if we all sat in the building that we owned and somebody had a cigarette, that person could be arrested, and as owners of the club we could be in trouble too.

 

Not quite true. Private members clubs are exempt from the ban, so in the scenario you just outlined, you'd all be able to smoke quite happily.

Sorry, you're wrong. There was a suggestion at one point to provide an exemption for private members clubs, but this was chucked out in Parliament. Their sole exception is "Hotels, guesthouses, inns, hostels or members' clubs – can designate smoking bedrooms but this will not cover dormitories or rooms available for more than

one person to share at the same time." (http://www.bdb-law.co.uk/media/publicationsarticles/1/r/07-06_Smoke-Free_Premises_Regime.pdf)

Similarly confirmed at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_...icle2006508.ece

I'm sure you won't be too offended if I take the word of The Thunderer and a reputable law firm over yours on this particular issue.

[Little Miss Idiot]

Tell you what, maybe I should just get the photos of my Grandmother, last year a happy lady, full of life with a wonderful man.

 

Then I can show you the pictures over the months as she slowly and painfully died of lung cancer, crying every morning wishing she'd died in the night because it hurt so much. Regreting every cigarette she'd smoked.

 

I saw my Gran the day before before she died, she just moaned in response to me as I told her how much I loved her and how she could relax as her family were all looked after and happy now. She sat propped up in her chair with cushions, having spasms where she curled up all her limbs and cried one word.. Agony..

Her body was lighter than a small child, no fat on her, skeletal.

 

Have you any idea how it broke my heart to see the woman who I love so much died like that.

 

 

 

I smoked for 15 years, finally kicked the habit. Then my health suffered a rapid decline. See what I didn't realise is that cigarettes numb the lungs, they mask the problems till it's too late.

So at the age of 30, my fun smoking habit has left me incapable of walking very far, constant pain, I need three different steroid inhalers to cope through the day with the breathing and I'm utterly terrifed that I'm going to die during the birth of the child I'm expecting, but my health is so bad I want to give the man i love something to cherish in case my health gets worse and he loses me.

 

 

Smoking destroys lives, and trust me, it gets us all, do yourself a favour and give up before you end up a wreck like me. That bouncy crazy haired girl a lot of you met is gone now, I'm fat from my inability to walk, unhappy and I wheeze like an old lady. Trust me, it's not worth it.

[RainbowDisney]

Tell you what, maybe I should just get the photos of my Grandmother, last year a happy lady, full of life with a wonderful man.

 

Then I can show you the pictures over the months as she slowly and painfully died of lung cancer, crying every morning wishing she'd died in the night because it hurt so much. Regreting every cigarette she'd smoked.

 

I saw my Gran the day before before she died, she just moaned in response to me as I told her how much I loved her and how she could relax as her family were all looked after and happy now. She sat propped up in her chair with cushions, having spasms where she curled up all her limbs and cried one word.. Agony..

Her body was lighter than a small child, no fat on her, skeletal.

 

Have you any idea how it broke my heart to see the woman who I love so much died like that.

 

 

 

I smoked for 15 years, finally kicked the habit. Then my health suffered a rapid decline. See what I didn't realise is that cigarettes numb the lungs, they mask the problems till it's too late.

So at the age of 30, my fun smoking habit has left me incapable of walking very far, constant pain, I need three different steroid inhalers to cope through the day with the breathing and I'm utterly terrifed that I'm going to die during the birth of the child I'm expecting, but my health is so bad I want to give the man i love something to cherish in case my health gets worse and he loses me.

 

 

Smoking destroys lives, and trust me, it gets us all, do yourself a favour and give up before you end up a wreck like me. That bouncy crazy haired girl a lot of you met is gone now, I'm fat from my inability to walk, unhappy and I wheeze like an old lady. Trust me, it's not worth it.

 

my HugSlut is pregnant !!!

[Scorch]

I honestly couldn't care less about the smoking ban. I'm going to smoke whether it be inside or outside a public building, but what I do care about is the sheer hypocrisy of it all. The government can still enjoy a smoke in the House of Commons, a place of business, and wherever else they choose to ignore the law.

 

Another thing that grates on my last nerve is the way passing public goggle you for being a good lil citizen. They'll stare at you like you've six eyes or something, shudder in disgust as they walk away, then go home to spy on their neighbours.

 

Then there are the people who go on and on about the health issues of smoking, polluted air caused by smoking, yet go home and stuff coke up their noses.

 

I wonder if anyone has been killed over a cigarette like there has been drugs and alcohol.

 

I honestly couldn't care less about the smoking ban. I'm going to smoke whether it be inside or outside a public building, but what I do care about is the sheer hypocrisy of it all. The government can still enjoy a smoke in the House of Commons, a place of business, and wherever else they choose to ignore the law.

 

Another thing that grates on my last nerve is the way passing public goggle you for being a good lil citizen. They'll stare at you like you've six eyes or something, shudder in disgust as they walk away, then go home to spy on their neighbours.

 

Then there are the people who go on and on about the health issues of smoking, polluted air caused by smoking, yet go home and stuff coke up their noses.

 

I wonder if anyone has been killed over a cigarette like there has been drugs and alcohol.

[lynn35]

Then there are the people who go on and on about the health issues of smoking, polluted air caused by smoking, yet go home and stuff coke up their noses.

 

I wonder if anyone has been killed over a cigarette like there has been drugs and alcohol.

 

 

 

that's a bit extreme. do u actually know any people who compain about smoke then go home and do cocaine individuals are being killed by smoking ... my mum died aged 46 all because she smoked.

[Scorch]

individuals are being killed by smoking ... my mum died aged 46 all because she smoked.

People do die of smoking illnesses, that is true, but you don't see anyone taking a knife in the gut for a cigarette.

 

Yes, perhaps my example was a bit extreme, but some people do complain about smoking and go home to do coke. I do know people who won't smoke a cigarette yet will happily partake in marijuana, in and out of public places.

[RainbowDisney]

Not to get into the drugs too much but techinically dont marijuana smokers actually smoke tobacco aswell seeing as it's used in the making of a joint ?

[TommyT]

Not to get into the drugs too much but techinically dont marijuana smokers actually smoke tobacco aswell seeing as it's used in the making of a joint ?

Similarly dancing round the details, not always; it rather depends on the format of the ingredient; some forms of it burn quite well without tobacco.

[Gerrysgirl]

Tell you what, maybe I should just get the photos of my Grandmother, last year a happy lady, full of life with a wonderful man.

 

Then I can show you the pictures over the months as she slowly and painfully died of lung cancer, crying every morning wishing she'd died in the night because it hurt so much. Regreting every cigarette she'd smoked.

 

I saw my Gran the day before before she died, she just moaned in response to me as I told her how much I loved her and how she could relax as her family were all looked after and happy now. She sat propped up in her chair with cushions, having spasms where she curled up all her limbs and cried one word.. Agony..

Her body was lighter than a small child, no fat on her, skeletal.

 

Have you any idea how it broke my heart to see the woman who I love so much died like that.

 

 

 

I smoked for 15 years, finally kicked the habit. Then my health suffered a rapid decline. See what I didn't realise is that cigarettes numb the lungs, they mask the problems till it's too late.

So at the age of 30, my fun smoking habit has left me incapable of walking very far, constant pain, I need three different steroid inhalers to cope through the day with the breathing and I'm utterly terrifed that I'm going to die during the birth of the child I'm expecting, but my health is so bad I want to give the man i love something to cherish in case my health gets worse and he loses me.

 

 

Smoking destroys lives, and trust me, it gets us all, do yourself a favour and give up before you end up a wreck like me. That bouncy crazy haired girl a lot of you met is gone now, I'm fat from my inability to walk, unhappy and I wheeze like an old lady. Trust me, it's not worth it.

 

 

Hear, hear. I just lost my own Grandmother who had a triple heart by pass 10 years ago because of smoking. The last 10 years of her life were a shadow of what they should have been. Illness took away the comfort of her old age.

 

 

I'm an ex-smoker who had the habit for over 20years and it took me 5 of those years to finally give up. I then discovered I have asthma (due to smoking) and I am now going to spend the rest of my life on inhalers, I suffer horrendous chest infections which frequently hospitalise me and I'm permenantly terrified I will wake up one day and find I have cancer.

 

 

I welcome the ban as it gives me another reason not to pick up a cigarette. I never smoked in my own house (mainly as I have children and didn't want to expose them to my second hand smoke) so I object strongly if other people smoke around me. Apart from the does it/doesn't it arguement as to whether passive smoking causes cancer (don't really think I want to wait and see) I find it unpleasant, smelly and antisocial.

 

And all smokers should remember.... Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

I'm now waiting for the day they make MP3 players illegal on public transport!!

Edited July 19, 2007 by Gerrysgirl

[surfy_sah]

thought I'd posted before but just had a quick scour through and seems I haven't!

 

smoking has been banned in Wales since April 2nd and I (as a non-smoker) think it's fab! to go to the pub and not stink of fags when you get in and be able to wear the same clothes again if you choose and not have to get the smoke smell out of your hair, to not breathe in other people's smoke and to not have ash and fags all over the place and in the toilets and sinks and on the bar of pubs and clubs, yey!

 

I'm sure I'm quite biased here but then I have asthma and smoke (be in from cigarretts, bonfires, fireplaces etc) always make my chest worse

 

smokers - you wanna smoke and breathe in all that stuff fine, but I'm chuffed that I now don't have to breathe in all the second hand smoke and gunk and suffer with a bad chest even though I've never had a ciggarett! I also like to smell nice and non-smokey!!!

 

tbh, I've 2housemates that smoke and they have to do it out the back door because we are in a rented house but I hate going anywhere with them in the car cause soon as we set off, they start smoking! it epecially bugs me when I've just had a shower, washed my hair and have clean clothes on!

 

sorry I'm on a bit of a rant here what absolutely irratates me though is health care professionals that smoke. I've just qualified as a nurse and the amount of people at the hospital who don't bother to cover their uniforms when they go out for a smoke is unbelievable! fancy treating patients when you stink of fags! ewww!

 

okies I think I'm done oh, only to add that my Mum lost her Dad and my Nan lost her husband because he died from lungcancer due to smoking. true this was a few decades back but still. smoking touches everything and everyone!

 

surfy sah xx

[TommyT]

Another unintended consequence, this one quite amusing:

 

"Pubs are planning to pump in artificial scents to mask the smell of stale beer, sweat and drains that used to be disguised by cigarettes before the smoking ban....Supporters of the smoking ban insisted that pubs and bars would become sweeter smelling without cigarettes. But the smoke had masked the locker room aroma in some crowded venues on warm Friday and Saturday nights. Oliver Devine, senior marketing manager at the Sizzling Pub Company, part of M&B, said: “Appetising food smells have increased but others are less attractive, such as stale food and beer, damp, sweat and body odour, drains and — how do you put this nicely? — flatulence.†"

 

Full story at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2199173.ece

[sazzra]

One of our local club/bars has taken out a radio ad to extol the virtues of 'smirting', saying if you go to their outside smoking bit, you'll meet the partner of your dreams.

[Spike's dream date]

I love it now smoking is banned! It's great to come home from an evening out and not stink of stale tobacco. I'm all for the ban 100% and I won't be convinced otherwise. Why on earth should I have to breathe in other people's smoke? They should have brought this in years ago!

 

 

 

smokers, you're not losing the right to make your own choice over whether to smoke or not - smoking itself is not illegal. you're simply losing the ability to damage others through your smoking. and let's face it, if you still did have the choice of smoking in pubs and such, you wouldn't make the choice not to.

 

 

 

 

 

You said earlier that it's like watching TV and that if non-smokers want to, they can just go elsewhere. Well, not any more mate, the tables have turned. You don't like watching the non-smoking hour at pub TV, then you can go outside with the other smokers and get used to the cold wind n rain, just like non-smokers had to get used to sitting in a pub surrounded by smog.

 

 

 

Good points, well made

Edited August 10, 2007 by Spike's dream date

[naurarwen_fangorn]

Well as a smoker I thought I would try n get my say. Right for smokers its a really bad thing, but for non smokers its a gud think.

 

Thing is I admit I'm fed up of having to work on a rota wiv my mates so we can all go out n get a fag and leave atleast one person watching the drinks. But its cold outside on te prom in Blackpool thats te only reason I hate it. Another is the fact that most pubs/clubs/etc now smell something horrid because of all the BO and sweat. Wen we were allowed to smoke inside it masked the smell of sweat but now u smell it as soon as u walk in and its makes u physically wanna be sick.

 

But as I said for all u non-smokers its a gud thing coz now u dont have to passive smoke.

 

It should be up to the pub tho. They should be able to chose whether or not people can smoke in their establishment. Some places in Blackpool were gud coz their smoking, n non smoking areas were qite far apart wiv the bar in the middle where u couldn't smoke anyway.

 

Just seems to be a bit of a pain in the bottom to tell u the truth. But each to their own really.