Anyone seen The Sun today?

[Chiandra]

Looks like this event has upset British veterans due to the inclusion of two Luftwaffe pilots 'selling their autographs for £150' and having 'no conscience' for having shot down allied pilots during the war and now allegedly profiting from it. The Sun claimed that Showmasters were unavailable for comment last night - do they have anything to say on the matter today? And what do other people think - is this just a newspaper sensationalising a situation (all be it a very popular newspaper) or do they have a valid point?

[adriangill]

The fact the they have neglected to mention the British WW2 members that are attending says it all really. Personally I don't class The Sun has a newspaper. Reports tend to be based on the smalled amount of truth whilst the rest is distorted and usually missing other essential facts that would completly change the readerers viewpoint and thus not make it a newsworthy story.

 

I really don't understand why the paper is so popular.

 

As for the morality...people sell their stories to papers, write autobiographies, etc. Autographs are just another source of income.

[Count Fooku]

That rag has no justification to take the moral high ground with anyone.

 

Given that this week marks the 21st anniversary of the Hillsborough Disaster they could make better use of their time by writing a proper apology for the hurtful lies they told in the aftermath of the disaster, all in the interests of selling extra newspapers and without a moments consideration for the pain and suffering they caused to the families of the bereaved.

[DavidB]

It isn't the first time The Sun has had something to say regarding autograph signings, so it comes as no surprise.

 

They're just very good at finding the worst in everything.

[Too Tall]

I'm going to close this topic. If any of the Autographica owners wish to comment on it they are free to re-open it.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Too Tall

[showmasters]

Hi all

 

we are back now from the event we were running over the weekend , but as Dave was in over the weekend I do not know why the Sun would not have been able to talk to him over the weekend? maybe they did try but as there is no message on the phone, no missed call and no email, maybe it just reads better them saying they could not get a reply from us. Believe me we would have loved to been able to reply to them!

 

now we all know the Sun loves us a lot and helps to keep everyone up to date on our events with free ads like this or maybe they just wanted to write something to create a none story to cover up the 21st anniversary of the Hillsborough Disaster where they got there facts so very wrong (just like the story about our event today!)

 

anyway Autographica is an event that is about history and about facts that are told by the people that played their part in history .

 

its no different that watching a documentary, and people get paid to make and take part in documentaries about the war. crew, directors, actors, interviewees. etc. no one is being immoral if they take part in making such documentaries are they

 

what about the people that made the costumes for Schindler's List or Inglorious Basterds. are they immoral for making money out of films that are about Germany in WW II. no they are not. so i do think the Sun taking a pop at us for running this event with these guest for nothing other that a cheep story .

 

now down to our German guests for this show

 

 

they have been asked by us to attend this event , we are covering their travel and we are also covering their hotel costs and covering their food and drink while there are with us. we are also giving them an assistant and we are paying for the cost of the photos that they are going to sign for the fans .

 

and this is what we are doing for the English pilots as well so we are treating these old veterans totally the same, as should be the case .

 

we feel that the best way for us to recover this cost we have into getting the guests to the event is to charge for the autographs they sign for the attendees , which we feel is fair .

 

The cost per auto is £10 not the £150 that the Sun say we are charging, which proves the Sun are out of their mind if they really think you could charge that amount of money. but then maybe there would not be a story at all if they told the old British pilots they talked to that is was us charging for the autos to cover the costs and it was £10 ?

 

now down to the most important point of all; the fact we are bringing German pilots to the UK to meet people and talk to us

 

why is this important to do this and why should we bother ?

 

well i want to meet this person myself for many reasons. here are just some of them

 

 

1 i want to understand as best i can what it was like being a young German at that time and fighting for what you thought at the time was the right thing , and what did it feel like when this all ended ? , he was fighting for his country and lots of Germans pilots fought to the death as they were getting weaker in strength. what did that really feel like knowing the odds were getting worse and worse but still going out to fight , this is something i really want to know as i will never have to live that and these guest did.

 

2 the German troops were seen as fighting differently to the allies in the way they fought , most allied troops say the Germans fought like they had something to prove , like they had to be the very best at what they did and how they did it , this i believe was drummed into them in training ? how did our guest feel at that time, is this the case? did they feel this way, that they were the best and what did it feel like when things started to change for them .

 

3 at the end of the war they got to find out all that had happened, what did that feel like ? at that time did they feel that they were fighting as part of the 3rd reich or did they feel that they were fighting for Germany ? or was it the same in there mind ?

 

4 when they first joined up was it by choice or did they have to join up like our troops ? and what was it like taking on the British ? how hard were they to fight against ? and did they think that they would loose at any point ? or even at the end of the war did they still think that they would win in the end .

 

 

in fact there are so many questions i want to ask and these men are some of the last few that can tell me what it was like , no one is saying that was is good or right and no one is saying that lots of innocent lives were lost and it was a massive waste of life , but these men and women did fight for what they felt was right and they are the few people left that can tell us the people of today what it was like and and to tell us all about the things that they did right or wrong so we can learn from them and maybe we will not make the same mistakes that the people of that time did .

 

we can all just forget about what happened and not try to understand and not talk to the people that lived it but what happens if we do forget and we do not remember why these terrible things happened , if we do not understand why things happened in the first place , so for me i want to meet the people that had their parts to play in this history, so that i can understand why it happened and why people got caught up in this and maybe i can explain to others why people in this item did some amazing things and terrible things .

 

i hope you can see why its important to remember and understand for the next generation .

 

as to the Sun newspapers point of view, its sad their writers are not too smart or they would get their facts right , but at least they have the freedom to write the rubbish they do and that was why so many people died in WW II, for freedom to live their lives and to buy papers like the Sun

 

in the end it will help to let people know the event is on so no thanks to the Sun but it will help the event

 

i hope people will give the respect to all the people of history that are attending this years event and i look forward to seeing you all there soon

 

jason

[Count Fooku]

Nicely said Jason, frankly if the s*n thinks Autographica is a bad thing it only reinforces my view that it is a very good event.

[gidda1974]

as mentioned previously.the scum is a lying rag

[Evelyn]

I just wanted to say that i think that Jasons/showmasters responce is spot on. I agree with everything that he says and that the most amazing part on the whole experence is being able to talk to someone from one of the most important parts of history!

 

and the Sun? just a raggy comic rather than a newspaper.

[Reverend Scapegoat]

It'd almost be worth calling the Sun to set things straight, if there was any hope of them printing your rebuttal to their claims...

[Flibble]

When I worked in the press, many years ago we had a saying which was "There are little lies, big lies and Sun exclusives!"

[showmasters]

i have in the past emailed them and they never reply ever

 

and i have this time as well as others but i do not expect anything decent from them .

 

Reverend Scapegoat if they did print a rebuttal to their claims it would be on page 98 in a inch tops so i am not holding my berth .

 

one last point on this matter

 

 

 

i contacted John Mellor, 81 - chairman of the Ex Service Council in nearby Wolverhampton

 

and he told me that he did not read the Sun as it was not a paper that he liked in anyway

 

also the reporter that did this peace did not tell him he was from the SUN nor did he tell him the facts behind the artical and he felt that what he did say had been twisted .

 

he also told me that the reporter also intended to ring him again tonight for a follow up interviue which when he rings he well tell him to not bother ringing him again .

 

we also went over my thoughts of why i wanted to bring some German WW II guest to the show and he felt like me thats its very important to not for get what had happened in WW II .

 

he also said that most the soldiers that fort in WWII on both sides were all just fighting for what they believed in and one thing that most people did not understand today is that in the 1940s if you did not want to fight in the UK you would go to prison , were as in Germany you were shot , there was no choice no playing at this it was life or death , and most people today just do not understand that , and he also said he has had an expensive navel career and felt if he was to meet fellow Navel crew from Germany he would be very happy to sit down and have a drink and a chat with them as they were just doing there job just like him .

 

the same did not go for most of SS soldiers that took part in WW II as they did corse a lot of death and pain to so many people at that time , and John like my self would not expect these people to attend like Auctographica .

 

John Mellor is a very nice guy and intelligent man and has offered to help us now find more WW II guest for future events and we have also offered to help the Wolverhampton and District United Ex Service Council as things are tuff and they could do with some money being raised to help the organisation keep going for its members , this is something that we will get behind this and help with this over the next few events .

 

 

so in a way this being in the Sun helped us find some more guests for future shows and also help the

Wolverhampton and District United Ex Service Council raise some money to help it keep going so thats all good

 

but no thinks to ANDREW PARKER who i would very much like to meet to see if he knows anything at all about WW II , but then dose he need to know anything at all ? all you seem to need to do is wright some guff and sell it to the Sun , its a living nothing to be proud of but it is a living

 

see you all at the show and maybe even Andrew

 

Jason

[Count Fooku]

I can remember 'Jimmy' James being asked about the issue of reconciliation at the last Autographica he did before he sadly passed away.

 

His view was that he had no problems with the Germans he came across in the war who were just doing their duty. His only cavaet was the SS but as someone who had been a prisoner in a concentration camp that isn't hard to understand.

 

It seems to me his view is shared by many Allied veterans who recognise that on both sides the combatants were just doing their duty under orders for their country.

 

As for Andrew Parker attending Autographica, I believe the event will continue to be all the richer for his non-attendance.

[timelord81r]

well said jason and john mellor

 

ww2 is something that interests me alot, I try to read, listen and watch anything I can get my hands on from that period in history. im currently listening to the audio books of winston churchills the second world war, they are amazing accounts.

 

I doubt i can afford or be off work (if im still in a job at that point, redundancies r looming) when this comes around but I do hope to attend the one later in the year in london, please get more ww2 veterans for talks at this one.

 

also with the pacific released, guests related to that and a band of brothers reunion of real life and actors would be awesome

[touchthesky]

I was reading the sun earlier and didnt see this. But maybe thats cuzit was the scottish sun

[keithporter23]

Jason your reply was so well put!

 

Well done to The Sun for the free publicity for the show.

[madmilburn]

The Sun? Ha!!!! Wouldn't even wipe my backside with it!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Am going to assume this isnt the first time German WWII veterans have attended (i know this time last yr an ex-panzer driver/commander was going to attend but had pull out due ill health) but if any allied veterans had any problems with German(s) attending am sure they'd have let their feelings known by now to Dave and so on. The only Germans who should have any sort problem with were/are the die hard Nazi's.

Edited April 12, 2010 by madmilburn

[Psychosis]

Comments like this really annoy me. Why shouldn't the Germans come? Germans died too, and many of them were no worse as people than the Britons that fought on the opposite side. Armies do what they're told, whether they like it or not. It's basically saying lives lost only count if they're British lives.

 

Thank you for bringing them to us.

[gidda1974]

Comments like this really annoy me. Why shouldn't the Germans come? Germans died too, and many of them were no worse as people than the Britons that fought on the opposite side. Armies do what they're told, whether they like it or not. It's basically saying lives lost only count if they're British lives.

 

Thank you for bringing them to us.

 

 

what an excellent comment.

 

it would be great to see what really went through these guys minds....... and these were probably brainwashed into it.

[Psyclepath]

I watched an excellent doc on the History Channel following George 'Johnny' Johnson as he visited the flight path he followed on the Dambuster raid.

 

He was adamant at the start that what he had been instructed to do was for the greater good and to hear his views change as the programme progressed was a shock to him and to me (and other vewers I would imagine).

 

It really showed how much of an effect this raid had had on the townsfolk for around that area and put both views across - I'm hoping that by having the Luftwaffe over we can gain some more knowledge.

 

Michelle

[showmasters]

thank you all for just thinking about this as it is important to understand the past and remember and to pass it on so others also understand what happened .

 

meeting all the WWII guest is a rare chance to learn what happened at first hand .

 

i am really looking forward to meeting all the guest

 

i look forward to seeing you there

 

 

jason

[Will Jones]

I saw this advert, oops, I mean article, when at work. Nothing in it surprises me with that group of newspapers. The prices mistake is nothing new for them. I guess it is free ad space again for Showmasters and Massive Events.

[keithporter23]

http://stricklerautographs.blogspot.com/20...graph-sale.html

 

Also now mentioned in Autograph Collectors Daily - Jason have you written a thank-you note to The Sun yet?

Edited April 14, 2010 by keithporter23

[TommyT]

Looks like this event has upset British veterans due to the inclusion of two Luftwaffe pilots 'selling their autographs for £150' and having 'no conscience' for having shot down allied pilots during the war and now allegedly profiting from it. The Sun claimed that Showmasters were unavailable for comment last night

They ring the office. Nobody answers. Bang. They're "unavailable for comment."

And what do other people think - is this just a newspaper sensationalising a situation (all be it a very popular newspaper) or do they have a valid point?

It's a sad attempt to keep on fighting a war that finished 65 years ago.

I had as a friend a gentleman who was an RAF pilot in the war, and ended up spending much of the war in POW camps, including Stalag Luft III at the time of the Great Escape. Several of his friends were amongst those who escaped and were subsequently recaptured and executed by the Germans in their reprisals. Understandably in the immediate post-war years he was apparently not keen on the Germans, but his attitudes changed over time, and in later life he was rather reconciled. Indeed, since his first 24 hours in German captivity were him being held on a Luftwaffe base, he apparently qualified as an honorary member of the Luftwaffe officers' mess for that base (any flying officer who had spent at least 24 hours on the base qualified, and there was apparently nothing in the "rules" to say that the officer had to be on the same side as the Luftwaffe ) - so about 15 or 20 years ago he was actually the guest of honour at one of that Luftwaffe officers' mess reunion dinners over in Germany. He was honoured and gracious about it, and I think a little touched. I think my opinions and attitudes in such matters are rather informed by his experiences and viewpoints, than by some thirdrate muckrakers in Wapping.

[Dave Phillips]

Hello everyone

Just to clear this one up.

At the Autographica office we have a 24 hour answerphone, 24 Hour email.

You not only have that but we also have the showmasters office with the same facilities.

Nobody from any newspaper attempted to phone or email us before that article was released.

The press will pick up on any little detail they think contains a story.

I remember back in 2001 another newspaper approached us and asked if they could write a story on the show. Being naive in those days i agreed and gave them access to the dinner and the show.

A week later a 4 page spread appeared in their magazine entitled After they were famous.

The paper had taken photos of the celebrities signing and then digitally removed all the people so it looked like they were sitting alone in a hall devoid of any signs or photos (Which the paper had also digitally removed)

But i have to say some times this publicity works well for us.

In 2002 The local Northampton paper ran the story that Richard Kiel would be coming to the town to make his first ever appearance in the U.K. Anyone who has stayed at the Old Moat House hotel knows that the beds and rooms will not accomodate a man who is 7foot 2 tall and weighs 350 lbs.

A local bed company came to the rescue because they had seen the article and made him a giant bed.

Mind you we had to take out all the furniture from his room !!!!

So i think enough said on this subject, let,s move on and work on putting on the show.

Dave Phillips