Queen_Sindel Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) If it is such an issue to even make their money back in Manchester then they should just openly cancel it altogether or actually plan it properly so that they might stand a chance. Otherwise it's like announcing a party the day before its on, in the middle of a whole week of parties, and then wondering why nobody can come. Who said they will not beplanning it properly? We all don't know what's happening behind the scenes. Some of the best guests SM ever had couldn't confirm until the last minute, like Christopher Lloyd for example. Edited April 12, 2009 by Queen_Sindel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UserFormerlyKnownAsMondasant63 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I do think that one of the main problems, both from an organisational and attending standpoint is that we really do have so many great shows organised by SM that even before the so-called credit crunch most of us have seriously had to think about which events to attend. I'm not short of money myself but now I have to consider if there are enough guests to make it worthwhile for myself or if I'll just have to live with the disappointment of not meeting one or two guests if it means that I can meet five or six at another venue. I have been impressed with all of the Manchester shows, both with the guest list and with the general atmosphere, but with petrol prices as they are the 60+ mile journey can prove to be too much to shell out for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havok Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I think that SM, if they go ahead with an event in Manchester, should seriously think about downsizing the venue. I'm sure the hire of the G-Mex, Manchester Central or whatever they're calling it, cost an absolute fortune on top of other costs involved with putting on a show, so maybe a complete re-think about the whole event should be on the cards. Some of the other events, I would imagine, are more popular and profitable as they can draw more numbers from the surrounding areas. E.G. MK may benefit with a catchment area of London to the Midlands etc, but then again, every venue will be a problem to get to for lots of people. I've heard complaints (and moaned myself) about the difficulty on getting to an event and wish they could be nearer to my home town, but it's not always that easy. It's a tricky situation that SM have, especially with the amount of events they are running. I personally think that there are too many events running. Not just with SM but with other promoters. The market is thinning out and prices are getting more expensive. I started going to events in the 80's and they were far & few between. They didn't have celebrities and were cheap to attend and (to a certain extent) run. They have since grown and become the mini industry that they are today, proving with every event that you can't please all of the people all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotter Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 It was mentioned in a post on the Eclipse forum that there is no Manchester this year. Why this wasn't mentioned before and posted here is beyond me but at least you all have the answer you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnad Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 If it is such an issue to even make their money back in Manchester then they should just openly cancel it altogether or actually plan it properly so that they might stand a chance. Otherwise it's like announcing a party the day before its on, in the middle of a whole week of parties, and then wondering why nobody can come. Who said they will not beplanning it properly? We all don't know what's happening behind the scenes. Some of the best guests SM ever had couldn't confirm until the last minute, like Christopher Lloyd for example. That's true, but guests, dealers, venue... all are nothing without the actual attendees, and I think that not announcing to them that it's on until the very last minute does constitute poor planning because it doesn't give enough people enough notice to be able to plan/afford/reschedule to make any real money, or even just chance to break even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyT Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 If it is such an issue to even make their money back in Manchester then they should just openly cancel it altogether or actually plan it properly so that they might stand a chance. Who said they will not beplanning it properly? We all don't know what's happening behind the scenes. I think we do now; if you look towards the end of this post by Jason (admittedly posted several hours after your post) he says "also this year we have less signing event no manchester this year which is two dates" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) I thought he was looking for a new venue for a show later in the year? A dealer at the sachas movie fair last month told me he heard on the dealer grapeving the show was happening later this year but at a smaller venue. Edited April 13, 2009 by Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnad Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) If not then nice to have it announced as an afterthought on an unrelated post for another show rather than on its own dedicated area where they know we have been waiting for months for such news! Not only that but to announce the cancellation (which we were told if so then would be due to not making enough money in Manc) on the forum of a show they claim they wont cancel even though its apparently gonna lose them £20k. Cheers for the support with that one guys... Edited April 13, 2009 by darthnad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyT Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Not only that but to announce the cancellation (which we were told if so then would be due to not making enough money in Manc) on the forum of a show they claim they wont cancel even though its apparently gonna lose them �20k. Cheers for the support with that one guys... Consider the possibility that cancelling the E3 event might cost them almost as much money as running it. In that case, perhaps better to run it, and keep those guests and attendees happy than brass them all off if they've already turned down other things that weekend, bought non-refundable travel tickets etc. Which probably isn't the case with Manchester. Cancelling Manchester seems like a way to avoid a potentially sizeable loss at relatively small inconvenience to people; cancelling E£ could only save a few thousand pounds and leave many people involved considerably out of pocket. The two situations are likely very different, hence the different treatment of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen_Sindel Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I think we do now; if you look towards the end of this post by Jason (admittedly posted several hours after your post) he says "also this year we have less signing event no manchester this year which is two dates" Yes, we definitely do know now. I've seen the post now as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Wow was Manchester really that much a loss that an unfortunatley seemingly doomed con featuring a show whos majority of fans have moved onto the next big thing (goodbye Hayden hello Kirsten!) in less than 2 years since it hit these shores can go ahead?.Im shocked that Manc was such a blow out as i thought the first 3 shows looked and seemed at the time like they were hits.The last show was a tad grim but that was as ive said before because it was the first guest list where people were fairly unhappy on the whole with who we were getting compared to elsewhere. I know you have to go where the money is and whats hot but here lies the gamble in having specialist cons for shows after the hype has died down and im not pinning this on everyone but the genre audience can be fickle nowadays.You have to give props to the Trekkies in times like this for sticking with it back in the day and what they did for the convention world in general.If theyd have bailed after season 2 of SNG would we be here arguing the toss today? Edited April 13, 2009 by Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnad Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 To be fair from what I've seen on that other events forum its the last one they are doing of it. But yeah the other Manchester ones have been ok apart from the last one which was mainly guest list related from what I heard around the time off many of my own mates who wouldn't even pay the pretty cheap entry fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Im not critisizing SM im just making a comment on how tv shows nowadays havent got the staying power with the fans as in the days of X Files and Trek. Edited April 13, 2009 by Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen_Sindel Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I can't speak about the third one, but I have a story from the first one that could be an example for "looks can be deceiving." I'm usually out in line early, simply because of my sleeping habits. Sunday of the first show (which as we all agree had a great guest list) I for once slept a bit longer and was out a little more than an hour before early bird opening - and I found myself to be the first one in line. Yes, I know that Sundays are usually slower. But still: the first and only time this had ever happened before was at two Fridays at Collectormania shows. For me that was definitely a sign that something was off. Wow was Manchester really that much a loss that an unfortunatley seemingly doomed con featuring a show whos majority of fans have moved onto the next big thing (goodbye Hayden hello Kirsten!) in less than 2 years since it hit these shores can go ahead? We don't know the exact details here, Phantom. What TommyT has posted is one possible explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 We don't know the exact details here, Phantom. What TommyT has posted is one possible explanation. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDonovan Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Have to be honest, I don't understand where some of the vitriol comes from in this thread. Are you really saying that you're going to boycott SM events just because they haven't made a formal announcement that Manchester's cancelled? Don't you think you're over-reacting a bit?? It's pretty clear that the Manchester event didn't make money, and being reasonable no business is going to keep slogging away at a losing proposition unless a) they have deep pockets and b ) they're in it for the long haul. As for communication, in general SM are pretty good with engaging with their customer base - particularly compared to other such event organizers I could mention. And since people are in rant mode, I don't understand how some people are more than happy to spend a few hundred pounds on signatures, and yet get annoyed at the prospect of paying £25 for a train journey. And don't tell me it's not £25 - it is. Book a ticket a few weeks in advance, and as long as you're a bit flexible about times you'll get it cheap. I booked a return train ticket to Birmingham for £27 from London 2 weeks in advance - if you think that's expensive you're living in a strange alternate world far removed from what I call reality. Edited April 13, 2009 by MikeDonovan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) The train ticket isnt again the only factor. Last October the Midlands venue was miles away from our hotel and cost 13 quid there and 13 back.Believe me we tried to get a local hotel but we couldnt even with the usually reliable missuses work connections. Why didnt you just go for the afternoon you say? Well we tried that with the first Mid show and it didnt work (this trip out of town was a one off because of Mr Campbells rare appearance btw) Some people might like to spend most of the day on the train with a bit of Collectormania inbetween but some of us like to make the most of our wknds(particularly Sat night) after a hard weeks graft and even more so nowadays. Now after spending all day in the Rioch bar,browsing,the talks and generally doing the whole Collectormania thing instead of getting the taxi back to the station,the train back to Manc,the bus from Manc back home THEN fannying about rushing around to get ready for a night out(women dont do rushing when it comes to getting ready so thats a non starter)we decided to stay over and have our precious sat night out in Coventry(the horror!). Me and the missus have an unspoken deal that when she comes with me to an event out of town as shes not into the genres as i am that i take her out - thats the way it works for us as we spend our free time together and so the cancelled Manc show means an expensive do for me from now on....i mean who really wants to stay in a Travellodge all evening apart from Lenny bleedin Henry? Now nobody is forcing me to go to the Midlands but last year after 3 years of going to the Manchester shows we now will have to travel out of town and the 150 quid travel/hotels tally last Oct was bit of a p*****.Now if the Manc show was on i wouldnt have all this and Collectormania would have been something that happened for a few hours inbetween everything else that i get up to of a wknd instead of a full blown wknd away.I like going to 2 shows a year so this will have to be the new way but i have to stand back and think apart from meeting Val Leon,Caroline Munro and Martine Beswicke was it worth it last time? Yes but only just this time but ill be honest with regards to this wknds trip there been a lot of umming and ahhing this time round whereas with the Manc gig its always been a done deal. Its not really about the dough though as we had something big happening in Manchester for the genre community and now its gone. All we got now in Manchester is Sachas bi monthly movie fair and the sterile Forbidden Planet.The show will be missed by the faithful and if its down to the Mancunian Sf/fantasy etc community not turning up fair enough but if its down to people out of town not willing to travel to Manc i know why............its because travelling to a show out of town and staying overnight is ******* expensive isnt it. Edited April 14, 2009 by Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDonovan Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I know you have to go where the money is and whats hot but here lies the gamble in having specialist cons for shows after the hype has died down and im not pinning this on everyone but the genre audience can be fickle nowadays.You have to give props to the Trekkies in times like this for sticking with it back in the day and what they did for the convention world in general.If theyd have bailed after season 2 of SNG would we be here arguing the toss today? Back in 1988 (Season 2 of TNG) there was a lot less to switch over to in the way of genre TV shows. But I think you've got a point - I've said it before and I'll say it again - aggressively courting the 15-21 demographic (Heroes for example) works for a while, but in general that demographic is notoriously fickle, and they have a low attention span. At soon as your show dips in quality they'll disappear overnight. I would think the only cast iron bet nowadays for a weekend show-specific event is Stargate - SG-1 was probably the best example of a modern show that's managed to build longevity, and they did that not by courting 15 year olds, but 25-30 year olds, and staying with them - if the mid-teens liked the show, great, but it wasn't made for them. Unfortunately even that's changed now that we've got Stargate : 90210 on the horizon. i mean who really wants to stay in a Travellodge all evening apart from Lenny bleedin Henry? I hear what you're saying. I will say that something like LFACC is an easy win - trip down to London, and in the evening you can pretty much do anything you want - see a show, knock about doing some sightseeing, do some shopping, whatever. I know I might get flamed here, but in Manchester and Birmingham the options are a bit more limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotter Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I know you have to go where the money is and whats hot but here lies the gamble in having specialist cons for shows after the hype has died down and im not pinning this on everyone but the genre audience can be fickle nowadays.You have to give props to the Trekkies in times like this for sticking with it back in the day and what they did for the convention world in general.If theyd have bailed after season 2 of SNG would we be here arguing the toss today? Back in 1988 (Season 2 of TNG) there was a lot less to switch over to in the way of genre TV shows. But I think you've got a point - I've said it before and I'll say it again - aggressively courting the 15-21 demographic (Heroes for example) works for a while, but in general that demographic is notoriously fickle, and they have a low attention span. At soon as your show dips in quality they'll disappear overnight. I would think the only cast iron bet nowadays for a weekend show-specific event is Stargate - SG-1 was probably the best example of a modern show that's managed to build longevity, and they did that not by courting 15 year olds, but 25-30 year olds, and staying with them - if the mid-teens liked the show, great, but it wasn't made for them. Unfortunately even that's changed now that we've got Stargate : 90210 on the horizon. i mean who really wants to stay in a Travellodge all evening apart from Lenny bleedin Henry? I hear what you're saying. I will say that something like LFACC is an easy win - trip down to London, and in the evening you can pretty much do anything you want - see a show, knock about doing some sightseeing, do some shopping, whatever. I know I might get flamed here, but in Manchester and Birmingham the options are a bit more limited. I'd have probably end up spending all my money at LFACC so would have to sepnd the night in my hotel room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Wow was Manchester really that much a loss that an unfortunatley seemingly doomed con featuring a show whos majority of fans have moved onto the next big thing (goodbye Hayden hello Kirsten!) in less than 2 years since it hit these shores can go ahead?. Somebody already covered this. They probably wouldn't make much by cancelling it. The difference between Manchester and Eclipse 3 is that people have already booked travel, hotels, bought expensive tickets for E3, maybe set up costumes, bought items to get signed - because the guests have been announced, the date was finalised, and everything seemed okay. Cancelling Eclipse 3 is likely to royally **** those people off and isolate some of their customers. On the contrary, Manchester - no date, nobody's spent anything on it. The most they get from cancelling that is irritation from people who can't be bothered to travel further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLOW99 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 It's not always being bothered to travel somewhere. I go religiously to the Manchester show with my sister. Now she is seven years younger than me and has to be home at tea time. She can't come to these events if they are held further afield and neither can quite a few of our friends due to similar reasons. There are lots of reasons why the cancellation is such a disappointment. I also have disabled friends who find the whole idea of having to travel to MK or other events a little daunting. Manchester was just a very convenient venue for me and my friends and whilst i don't blame SM (i wouldn' organise and pay for something if i wasn't getting someone out of it) the fact it has been cancelled has annoyed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 (edited) It's not always being bothered to travel somewhere. I go religiously to the Manchester show with my sister. Now she is seven years younger than me and has to be home at tea time. She can't come to these events if they are held further afield and neither can quite a few of our friends due to similar reasons. There are lots of reasons why the cancellation is such a disappointment. I also have disabled friends who find the whole idea of having to travel to MK or other events a little daunting. Manchester was just a very convenient venue for me and my friends and whilst i don't blame SM (i wouldn' organise and pay for something if i wasn't getting someone out of it) the fact it has been cancelled has annoyed me. To be fair, I highly doubt Showmasters' target market is children, because they usually don't have a lot of money to spend anyway. Shame for disabled people who can't travel though. But again, from a business point of view, the number of moderately-massively disabled people attending a local event anyway is probably less than 1%. ETA: This is my local con too so believe me I'd love it to keep going, but they have to do what's viable for them. I agree communication could be better though. Edited April 14, 2009 by Psychosis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyT Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Somebody already covered this. They probably wouldn't make much by cancelling it. The difference between Manchester and Eclipse 3 is that people have already booked travel, hotels, bought expensive tickets for E3, maybe set up costumes, bought items to get signed - because the guests have been announced, the date was finalised, and everything seemed okay. Cancelling Eclipse 3 is likely to royally **** those people off and isolate some of their customers. Not only would it **** people off,it would likely cost SM/ME. From a post several months ago by one of the mods in the E3 forum, quoting the E3 website: "The hotel requires full payment upon booking the room. Please note: Your booking is non-refundable. Should Massive Events make a date change, or in the unlikely event of Eclipse 3 being cancelled, refunds will be given to anyone that has booked a room." Now if the hotel wouldn't hold attendees liable for their non-refundable bookings, one can only assume they would be holding SM/ME liable instead. Even if it's "only" 45 rooms for each of Friday and Saturday nights and 25 for Sunday night, at £60 a night that's a "new" bill for them of nearly £7k, which would greatly reduce any other saving they might make by cancelling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovbug Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I will continue to go to shows that showmasters provide that intrest me but i can't understand why this was 'rescheduled' when the term should have been 'cancelled'. (Hope i am wrong tho). Surely leading people on will only making them feel less valued as a customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Who Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) I'm gutted, I've only been to one convention (the last Manchester one) and thoroughly enjoyed it. Looks like it'll be my last convention till I'm older or another one comes to Manchester. I understand that it would be wrong to put on an event if it was going to lose money but couldn't the convention go to a smaller venue or even try a shopping centre like one of the other Collectormanias did? Hardly anything or anyone comes up north so Collectormania Manchester really was a treat when I found out about it and it's a shame that it's not on anymore. I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed for future autobiography signings if and when they come. I know some people will say that i'm just 'lazy' and can't be bothered to travel but it's a case of parents not allowing me. My parents do like Sci-fi, yes, but they wouldn't consider travelling anywhere further than Manchester to attend a convention so I can't go to one further away from Manchester as a result and I know this is a case for many people. It's just gutting, really, especially as there's so much good news for all of the other events going on. Anyway, I'd just like to thank Collectormania for their fourth Manchester event and all their effort they put in, it was fantastic in my opinion, and I hope to attend another convention in what seems at the moment in the ever so distant future. Is this cancellation of Collectormania Manchester altogether, I hope not , or cancellation of Collectormania Manchester this year? Edited April 15, 2009 by Doctor Who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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