CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY

[MikeDonovan]

In my view the only reason why you would need a COA is because you're a dealer planning to sell them on - end of story... and they are worthless in any case. If you're absolutely dead set on getting proof, the only way is to take a photograph of the guest holding your signed picture. But why do you want it? It would only be of use if you were planning to sell it on. I get all my sigs personalized (where they agree - this means you Shatner!) so the resale value is small.

 

I don't buy the suggestion that your friends and family don't believe they are real. Why wouldn't they? What sort of character would make up the fact that he / she had met Lando Calrissian?

[gilgalad70]

COAs are worthless, and could be knocked up so easily.

 

Check Ebay and see how many autographs come with COA, and THEN see how many of them are REAL autographs, and how many aren't.

 

I've seen cases where sellers take, out of the goodness of their own hearts, naturally, a signed photo from their own personal collection, carefully scan in the image, with the sig, and then, at no extra cost to the eventual buyer, print out this exact copy you're thinking about buying, on proper photo quality paper (how generous can they be!?!) And then, as an added gift to the buyer, include a full COA to say its an original autograph.... When he's just said it's a copy, and there's no real proof that his was an original to start off with!

 

On the Ali authenticity.. check with MSPGS as I believe Mick is the official UK agent for Ali stuff nowadays... I'm sure he has enough Ali sigs to compare with to see if its a real deal or a fake.

 

Oh and remember, check Anthony Daniels' website for a guide to all the fake Daniels sigs out there, naturally with COAs.

[Maxieffect]

On the Ali authenticity.. check with MSPGS as I believe Mick is the official UK agent for Ali stuff nowadays... I'm sure he has enough Ali sigs to compare with to see if its a real deal or a fake.

 

I sent Mick a scan a few weeks ago, still waiting ona response, which I'm sure will come....

[GoldenGreen]

In my view the only reason why you would need a COA is because you're a dealer planning to sell them on - end of story... and they are worthless in any case. If you're absolutely dead set on getting proof, the only way is to take a photograph of the guest holding your signed picture. But why do you want it? It would only be of use if you were planning to sell it on. I get all my sigs personalized (where they agree - this means you Shatner!) so the resale value is small.

 

I don't buy the suggestion that your friends and family don't believe they are real. Why wouldn't they? What sort of character would make up the fact that he / she had met Lando Calrissian?

 

I know quite a lot of collectors that like to get a picture of the person holding the photo they have signed, or even signing the photo, I've even done it myself sometimes. It's not because I am planning to sell it on, in most cases it is because the photo is perhaps a gift for someone or I am helping a friend out and want to give them the photo to accompany the signed picture. In the past as well, I did use to sometimes put the picture of the guest signing next to the signed picture on my wall. Got too many autos now, so have run out of space !

[dazzlerjames]

I once did a charity auction at work and had aload of signed stuff. I just assumed it was real as it came from BBC, Aardman animation etc. Somebody asked me if they came with COA's and I replied if you want!! It's that easy to knock up a certificate and even put somebody elses UACC number on it if your that way inclined.

 

I do sometimes sell "spare" autos on ebay but tend to put them below what I have paid for them sometimes you just need the cash!- this doesn't mean that they are fake. I recently sold a Prowse for £5 and anthony Daniels for £15.

 

I also have aload of preprintsfrom someones personal collection (some are very rare - Princess Diana, Dali, JFK) which I'm offering to work as stocking fillers - £2 each 7x5 £4 10x8 with an extra £2 if you want a frame - I would never pass things off as genuine if they weren't.

 

It's sometimes difficult as I've got several autographs from the same person and they don't look the same - depends how much in a rush they are.

For example I have 2 Ray Parks and the signatures look nothing like each other - both obtained in person. 1 before phantom menace (I believe he got a b%^&ocking from Lucasfilm for unauthorised use of photos!) and one from CM.

 

SO to sum up a COA means nothing and not every cheap auto is a fake!!

 

cheers

[finalfrontier]

C.O.As are a waste of time, space and money. HOWEVER, SM could think up an idea of putting a holographic sticker on the back on the photo to say it is authentically signed by the actor. These are a lot harder to create thus a better enhancement on SMs point

the best way to show its a original signed photo is to have a photo of the star holding the actual signed picture, this way you know they have done it, also if SM let you take photos of every star signing this would not be a problem at all.

they put signs up saying no posed photos because the satr has asked this but most stars do not mind posing if you ask nicely

[flinty]

the best way around this is exclusive photos(which i know showmasters do for certain star wars actors)with a built in hologram you can only have them signed you cannot have them blank this seemed to work at celebration 2!!

[Nili]

Anybody can print a COA. So I can't see why they should be an enhancement to a collection. Personally I think they are a lot of rubbish. All fakes on Ebay come with COAs normally.

 

Totaly agree , ther's no need unless you wont to sell them in which case most peopal wont belive you any way :) cuz of what been going on on e-bay .

[Bounty Hunter]

I voted 'no' and apparantly that's the vision of the majority.

 

The only reason why one would need a COA is to sell it. If I obtain an item at a show and SM would offer me a COA, I would think it rather ridiculous. Of course I know it's authentic, I just obtained it in person... So a COA serves only one purpose: proving to a third party that your autograph is real. I don't feel that need. I know it is.

 

SM doesn't have the need to provide one, so why would they invest in getting their photos upholstered with COA's or holograms?!

 

If SM were to issue a COA, this would only serve fraudulent dealers who would then buy several authentic autographs to obtain the actual COA's and then use those to sell fakes. Not too much hassle, but to big a risk and to big an investment for SM. There is no reason for SM to do this.

 

Having the guests add the holographic sticker or whatever to the item after he signs it will not only take up way too much time, but the guest stars will feel rather ridiculous themselves. ''I have to authenticate the autograph that I just put here in person?''

[gilgalad70]

It's sometimes difficult as I've got several autographs from the same person and they don't look the same - depends how much in a rush they are.

For example I have 2 Ray Parks and the signatures look nothing like each other - both obtained in person. 1 before phantom menace (I believe he got a b%^&ocking from Lucasfilm for unauthorised use of photos!) and one from CM.

 

 

Just out of interest, was the Star Wars Ray Park auto gathered at Sandown racecourse, IIRC the day before Phantom Menace went on sale on video? I did that show (they were supposed to get Jeri Ryan, but she twisted her ankle so got a replacement, can't recall who offhand) To say the guests were quiet would be an understatement. It was my first show like 'the Brum one' and SM. Not a great looking show, but enough to get me hooked. I got 2 Ray Parks in Darth Maul gear, one for for me, one for my Bro-in-laws brother. He was v. happy!

[dazzlerjames]

No it was before Phantom Menace was even released in cinemas that's why he got a telling off. I can't even remember where it was that I got it but must have been in the west country somewhere as that's where I was living at the time.

[Fry]

I take it those who want a COA must be those who are planning on selling their autographs! That makes you more of a dealer than a collector and therefore scum in most collectors eyes! Since you know they are real, who else do you need to prove it to? If you are trying to prove it to your friends, they obviously dont think much of you if they think you are a liar!

On the flip side, any collector with an IQ of over 30 knows that a COA is not worth paper its written on. Any idiot can produce one and 99% of fakes come with them. So whats the point?

Edited November 11, 2006 by Fry

[michellepugh]

I take it those who want a COA must be those who are planning on selling their autographs! That makes you more of a dealer than a collector and therefore scum in most collectors eyes! Since you know they are real, who else do you need to prove it to? If you are trying to prove it to your friends, they obviously dont think much of you if they think you are a liar!

On the flip side, any collector with an IQ of over 30 knows that a COA is not worth paper its written on. Any idiot can produce one and 99% of fakes come with them. So whats the point?

 

Hello,

 

I normally lurk on these boards, but thought I would post on this topic as I find it quite 'emotive'.

 

I am a collector - I'm a huge Buffy and Angel fan and go to these events to get the actors from those shows autographs for myself (personalised to me).

 

However - it is a very expensive hobby and so I have in the past gotten spare autographs to sell on Ebay (I only ever get the actors that I am after for myself anyway - I don't go to these things just to get autos to sell).

 

I would never sell fakes or copies - I have been emailed and asked by people in the past if I would be willing to make them a copy before I send it to the winning bidder which just absolutely shocks and appalls me.

 

The reason I started selling spares as well is that I started my collection buying on Ebay and realised that a lot of the autographs were fake or pre-prints when advertised as genuine originals. So I wanted fans to be able to buy genuine original autographs and know what they had was real and good value for money.

 

I don't see myself as scum. And as far as I know the people who have bought autos from me don't either. I always provide a COA - it might be a worthless piece of paper to most of you, but I tell the buyer that I got it signed, I tell them where and when and it links it back to that particular autograph in case there's ever a problem. I know it's genuine and I hope my buyers do too.

 

The last couple of years I have hardly been to any of these events because I haven't been able to afford to - and part of it is to do with the amount of fakes out there on Ebay. It makes me sad when I think about it because so many people miss out because if it.

 

Anyway - I could ramble on all day so I will sign off there. Hope I haven't offended anyone because I am a 'dealer' as well as a collector. I'm not made of money and if it wasn't for selling autos on the side I would of had to give up attending events years ago.

 

Chelle

[dazzlerjames]

I agree with you totally sometimes to fund a hobbie you have to use whats available. I too have several copies of autos sometimes, and I have started getting posters signed and getting rid of 10x8 photos (it's a space thing - ie I've run out).

I have sold some on Ebay but haven't included COA's and luckily I haven't had anyone complain or email me - they may then go on to copy them and sell them at inflated prices but to be honest that's not my problem. I know they are genuine when I sell them so my concience is clear. To be honest I seldom make back what I paid for them but I got the bonus of meeting them. I noticed that before CM6(?) that people were selling Carrie Fishers auto at £40 including personalisation that they were getting at the event so genuine fans like myself missed out.

 

 

I have the same problem with other things too - my 3 year old son has been collecting die cast cars from the pixar film and is missing a chick hicks - its rare but dealers seem to have them and selling them for £20 a shot - how do you tell a 3 year old he cannot have it because people are taking the p***. I collect star wars figures and again have had to pay stupid prices for some as the dealers buy them first - I recently saw a pile of them in Toys R Us behind the counter including the rarer ones - I was told a member of staff had reserved them - probably to go on ebay!! (they're still in store now several weeks later).

[nicky]

I work for eBay in copyright infringment and I say don't buy from anyone unless they are a reputable dealer. Also it goes without saying check feedback, message the seller, look to see if the price is suspiciously low or if the auction is only on for a suspiciously low number of days.

 

Yes there are fakes on there but there is no way in hell that anyone can identify them or stop all of them in time before they are sold.

[rickyparty]

I've had COAs with stuff before but I find them pretty pointless. I know my autographs are real and I have no intention of selling them so I see no point to it.

 

And as a lot of people have said, anyone can make a COA. I've bought stuff from Ebay in the past and some of the COAs I've been sent are terrible. They may as well have been written on a lined paper notepad for the actual quality of the certificate and how authentic they may be.

[gilgalad70]

Authenticity is a very subjective area.

 

I have a friend in the US who used to take photos of Playboy Playmates at shows they used to do. (There's one in LA this w/e if no one's busy...:)) His site used to have large sized versions of the photo. If you did searches on Ebay for images of Playmate/model X, invariably his images used to crop up. Either as reprints 'from original negatives' on photo paper, or wallclocks, or keyrings etc. All from original negatives.

 

When the owner of the images used to question the sellers, they'd swear blind they bought the negs off a guy, even though the negs were in J's safe!

 

Mind you, I reckon Al Pacino's sig could be easy to 'copy'. Having seen him at the Merchant of Venice premiere last year, there couldn't be any discernable 'Al' or 'Pacino'. A mark, or a squiggle were the best you could hope for! No way of matching that to any 'known' source!

[dazzlerjames]

Al Pacino actually does a really nice through the post signed pic. It's dedicated in nice silver pen on a black and white pic. However it's an autopen but looks nice framed.

 

Completely off topic but I thought I'd mention it.

[rich5wolves]

Anybody can print a COA. So I can't see why they should be an enhancement to a collection. Personally I think they are a lot of rubbish. All fakes on Ebay come with COAs normally.

 

Actually there is a company at another event that has a way of authenticating things properly and not everyone/anyone could do it.

[gilgalad70]

Al Pacino actually does a really nice through the post signed pic. It's dedicated in nice silver pen on a black and white pic. However it's an autopen but looks nice framed.

 

Completely off topic but I thought I'd mention it.

 

Actually the current (I think) issue of Autograph Collector has a letter in there about Pacino autographs. Apparently a guy doing a write-up on Pacino went to his place and saw a pile of photos on his desk, and his PA assured the guy that although there might be a few that fall through the holes, he does all his requests. Apparently the issue or two beforehand had an allegation about the suspect nature of through-the-post Pacino autographs.

 

I have Spike Milligan autographs on 3 books and an LP. I watched him (slowly) write out the name in perfectly formed letters. His assistant/agent was not pleased about the LP, but at least it showed I wasn't a guy who just popped in on the offchance. Got Desmond Llewellyn (Q) auto in his biog 3 days b4 he crashed his car.

Edited November 20, 2006 by gilgalad70

[cmh]

COAs have their use, especially if they state where and when the photo was signed - but if I'm getting photos signed in-person, I really don't think COAs would serve any useful purpose. I know the signature is genuine, and that's good enough for me (and I have no plans to sell any time soon).

[Charisma]

Anybody can print a COA. So I can't see why they should be an enhancement to a collection. Personally I think they are a lot of rubbish. All fakes on Ebay come with COAs normally.

 

I dont sell fakes on ebay so not all of them are.

[wyrdsister]

COAs are worth...the paper it's printed on I'm affraid. Plus if you get the autograph yourself, in person, you can write your own COA...lol. Maybe I should do that and authentiicate all the autographs I got in person to prove they're real!

 

Seriously though, I oncebought a signed pic on eBay which I now know is a fake. The COA was very pretty with gold stars and watermarks etc...and that was the last time I did, not one single signature since has not come from a show where I saw the person sign the pic in front of me. That, is my COA!!

[Fry]

I work for eBay in copyright infringment and I say don't buy from anyone unless they are a reputable dealer. Also it goes without saying check feedback, message the seller, look to see if the price is suspiciously low or if the auction is only on for a suspiciously low number of days.

 

 

Ha ha, that must mean you are crap at your job lol.

Do you actually look at eBay and see the amount items there are are infringing on multiple copyrights?

I complained to eBay at the begining of the year about the amount of PSP games that that were actually pirated games copied onto a DVD. eBay's responce....Contact FAST! Did eBay do anything about it...Not a thing!

 

Yes there are fakes on there but there is no way in hell that anyone can identify them or stop all of them in time before they are sold.

 

Nothing to do with you, but I even made complaints about sellers selling fake autographs with the assistance of Anthony Daniels. Did eBay do anything about that? No!!!!! As long as the money comes in, eBay doesnt care.

Also, any collector worth their weight, should be able to identify fakes before they buy them. Its just being lazy if they dont.

 

Sorry, but not a great idea to admit you work eBay!

Edited November 20, 2006 by Fry

[nicky]

Sorry, but not a great idea to admit you work eBay!

Man, you are one pi$$ed off, guy. Why are you talking to me like that? You got a chip on your shoulder or what? Listen you yourself, you sound like a whinging, bitter @sshole. Which is worse, admitting I work for them or you giving me a load of $h1t on a public forum merely cos I choose to have a secure job??

 

Firstly, it is impossible to stop people completley from selling counterfeit stuff...just like it's impossible for police to stop crime completely and take justice. The site is online 24hrs a day and we are totally outnumbered by the number of members so of course things are gonna slip thru the wire. And we can't take items down just cos random busy-bodies like you report them without some sort of evidence, who are you to say what's real or not?...And we actually need more than just anyone's word to take stuff off ...otherwise people are gonna wanna know why the item was removed. Some items are left active cos they are in the Public Domain and that is allowed. And you going on about eBay just wanting the money is just childish, bitter, paranoid bull$h1t!...My pay is measured on performance and the amount of work I get thru, not how much money the company generates.

 

Also, any collector worth their weight, should be able to identify fakes before they buy them. Its just being lazy if they dont.

 

As for fake autos...how can we know for sure what's real or not? Bidders should ask the seller for authenticity anyway if they have doubts (in your words, they are lazy if not, remember?) and copyright holders know they are meant to join our rights owner's programme and then they can tell us to take off whatever they want. Tell Anthony Daniels to join the Verified Rights Owner programme...or was he just "lazy" as you put it?

 

And as for you saying I'm crap at my job, I got 2 words for you, one with an F, the other with a Y. I don't make the rules and I resent your words. Just chill out, man and don't take your personal $h1t out on me just cos someonelse fcuked you over...if you have a beef take it up with the sellers, after all you're the expert....eBay is just a venue for others to trade. And as for it not being advisable to say I work for eBay it's not advisable either for you to insult me just cos of my job...what do you want me to do, find employment elsewhere just to make people like you less pi$$ed off and aid your personal vendetta against eBay???!!!

Edited November 29, 2006 by nicky