things we are looking at for the future

[showmasters]

Hi all

 

There has been a lot of chat about improving and reinventing some of the aspects of the events we run , the main one is the photo ops , so i thought i would come on here to talk to you all about what we have understood and what we have learnt and what we have been planning for some time .

 

First photo ops photos

 

We have seen that over the last few years the printing technology has moved forward , it has not been very fast but it is moving forward.

 

The issues we have found out are as follows

 

The prints do not react well with some pens especially cheap marker pens (but as we use sharpie for all our events we are covered on this front and we have tested these so thats all fine)

 

The photo process does work and each prints take around 30 second per print if the image feed goes direct into the printer from the camera

 

But if there is an issue with this process like the image were someone is blinking or flare on someones glasses or anything wrong with the photo then it will come out on the print with out it being fixed in post production.

 

We saw this weekend photos being printed with blinks and issues with the image , when people have an issue with the photo nothing can be done so this would not work for us and we want the image to be right every time and we do not feel making it fast and instant works yet and losing quality to something that could be a once in a life time chance of having is not acceptable to Showmasters.

 

Now we can use these printers and we can make them available in less time than we do at this time but we would still want to put them images through a post production session so we fix any issues with the image and also we can back up the images onto a hard drive for safety .

 

We feel the time delay for a 400 per hour shoot would still need a hour after the photo was taken to be ready for the public , we just feel that we do not want to lose quality on the product.

 

Another important point is the cost , it will cost more money to process these prints as the printers cost around £2000 per unit and to keep up to 400 images an hour would need around 3 printers and a back up and there is a service cost to the printers as well so in the end we feel there would be a 30% extra cost involved in printing photos in this way , and as at london we have 3 photo shoots going on at once the costs of changing over to printers would mean an outlay of around £24,000 to set up and then there is the upkeep costs of running them so it is a big investment and not something to get wrong so we have been looking into this for many months.

 

We tried a printer at our last Autographica with out anyone really knowing and we had some issues there getting the amount we needed back in time so we learnt from that and again we tried with a different printer at the Mike Tyson event last month again we did not feel it was up to it , but we have now found what printers we feel will work for our events and we are going to start to use them and phase them in over the next few months but the time delay from having the photo taken and you receiving your photo will have to be still one hour.

 

Our cost will go up investing in these printers and we are looking at other want to cover the extra costs involved with out putting up the cost of photo shoots , an event that took place recently charged around 20% to 30% more to cover the costs of this extra Tec upgrade , we do not feel thats right and we are not going to increase the costs of our photo shoots.

 

We have been asked about Jpegs being sold as well as hard copies , we feel that there is a need for these and we have also been thinking about this and a way that is safe to send out the images as we do not want to give other people outside of the people in the photo access to the image , so we feel that if we can put the number of your image on the back of your hard copy then you can email us after the show and we can send you the Jpeg of the image via email we would have to have someone look after the and to go through the images and process the order , if the order was made at the show at the pick up desk and the paper work was filled out and paid for there then we could charge around £5 to send you a Jpeg if it was to be paid for on line them we would need to charge a little more to cover the credit card charges etc so we would think it would be around £6 , this would be an extra service and there is a cost involved to us to we feel its fair to pass on this cost and also it will help to cover a little more of the costs involved in having these new printers on site.

 

The other benefit to having photo printers on site is that we can run the photo shoots till much later which will help spread out the photo shoots a bit helping everyone to be a little less rushed , and having them on site will also help us know when the photos will be ready as in the past we have to rely on the labs to tell us what time they will be back and somethings they get this wrong and it makes us look a bit silly even though its not down to us :-)

 

So we will start to bring this online from Collectormania with one printer and then as the year goes on we will bring more printers online till we are fully able to print the photos at the shows by the end of the year , so i hope that helps you see what we are planning and also see we are looking forward to the future and evolving what we do , but we only do this for the better and to improve things for you all , there is no point in just trying to improve things if its not going to work well.

 

The funny thing is some events try things out and it may not work but that seems to get away with it , we on the other hand people expect us to get it right first time with 100% effectiveness and if we mess up we get killed for it and then if we do not evolve as fast as others then people go on about us being to slow to improve as well so we know we cannot win.

 

well we have been on this for the last two years and we have been using this technology a little but we have held back so as to get it as right the best we can first time and we are not going to be hurried into get it wrong , so i hope you all see we do try to provide the best we can every time and at a fair price.

 

This year we have also see other events charging more and more for guests autographs , we feel that this is something thats very important to try to control and keep down, we feel very strongly about value for money and at every point we can we try very hard to give great value , this year we once again have many guests autographs at the £10 price tag and a lot of the other guests are also very competitively priced compared to other events that take place around Europe and the US , we do not do gimmicks like 3 to the price of 2 etc as we feel you will buy what you want and the price of each autograph should not be put up to cover the price of the free autograph, in the end we all know everything has to be paid for and nothing in life is free , so the price we charge is the lowest we can charge for each autograph and you get that if you buy one item or ten items its the same fair price across the board no tricks not games just a fair price for this amount of autographs you want to buy.

 

well i think that covers some of the things i have been thinking about .

 

we all look forward to see in you all soon at our next few events .

 

yours

 

Jason

Edited May 15, 2012 by 1of2

[timelord81r]

long post lol, reg the photo issues like blinking ect, I had a few (although i missed an issue on one arghh) I went back and got 3 redone no hassle, I prefer this than having my eyes put in in post production! will read the rest of the post when im home lol ;-)

 

I remember at autographica i was given the choice of a post production edit on the computer somehow or a re shoot, to me that was an insane question, re shoot every time!! dont get why anyone would choose otherwise.

[adriangill]

Jpegs!

[SMASTER]

Great to know we are getting JPEGS, the amount of posts I've seen debating whether they'd work or not is incredible... Well done showmasters as always great job responding to our feedback, and thanks for just filling us in :)

[TerraHawk]

we do not do gimmicks like 3 to the price of 2 etc as we feel you will buy what you want and the price of each autograph should not be put up to cover the price of the free autograph,

 

Honestly, as a gimmick it works. Look how Tenth Planet do it. If I'm spending £30 on three autos at £10 each, and I know for an extra £10 I can have two more, I spend that extra £10 and get 5.

[Rockstar6662]

Not entirely convinced about this "we must have everything instantly" culture. Is it really that difficult to wait for a couple of hours for the photos to come back from a proper lab?

 

Not convinced about the quality of standalone printers churning out hundreds of images in seconds either, or the life expectancy of such an image. If the quality isn't up to a normal lab it may affect how may photoshoots I get in future. I'm always been impressed with the quality of the photos I've had at SM events and I'd hate for that to change in the slightest. If it means waiting a bit longer to get the quality I'm happy with that.

 

I appreciate there are some benefits as you're more in control but I'm yet to be convinced it won't lead to a poorer product.

 

Regarding the cost of jpegs. At £5 or £6 a time no thank you. I currently have 25 shoots between CM and LFCC. That's an extra £125 if I want jpegs. Sorry but that's far too much.

 

I appreciate things change but change isn't always better and I hope this isn't being rushed in just to appease some persistent posters on the forum.

[DavidB]

I appreciate things change but change isn't always better and I hope this isn't being rushed in just to appease some persistent posters on the forum.

That's certainly one thing that'll never happen. Everything is always considered in a much wider context than the few on the forum :)

[timelord81r]

free JPEGS would be nice, digital copy of your instant pic gets you the best of both worlds!

 

pluses of instant, no hyena fighting, you have better chance if you want it signed, no going home without your pic!

[DavidB]

free JPEGS would be nice, digital copy of your instant pic gets you the best of both worlds!

 

pluses of instant, no hyena fighting, you have better chance if you want it signed, no going home without your pic!

I don't really see why they should be free. It's time and effort on their part to have to do it, so why not get some of that money back? Makes sense to me.

 

And in an ideal world there's no going home without your pic, but with the volume of photos they get through, the printer/s are going to be pushed hard and reliability could end up an issue. Then there'll be even further delays.

[timelord81r]

free JPEGS would be nice, digital copy of your instant pic gets you the best of both worlds!

 

pluses of instant, no hyena fighting, you have better chance if you want it signed, no going home without your pic!

I don't really see why they should be free. It's time and effort on their part to have to do it, so why not get some of that money back? Makes sense to me.

 

And in an ideal world there's no going home without your pic, but with the volume of photos they get through, the printer/s are going to be pushed hard and reliability could end up an issue. Then there'll be even further delays.

 

 

Once you experience free, you are gonna be less inclined to pay lol, just saying if it were ppls worries about slight dip in quality prints wouldnt matter as you got instant plus the quality download.

 

ive never left a SM event without a pic, but i know it can happen due to trains ect, happened to me at thall that shaunt be named con

[DavidB]

Well in an ideal world I'm sure everyone would love loads of stuff to be free

Edited May 15, 2012 by DavidB

[silentbob121]

OHHHH IM BEGING ON MY KNEEEESS PLEASE PLEASE DARLING LISSEN PLEASE DO THE JPEGS AT Collectormania Milton Keynes PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[DavidB]

I would suggest they're more likely to do it if you never do that again.

[Avengers7]

I'm quite happy with the way it is done now. Happy to wait for an excellent photo. Very rare that I have wanted more than one copy.

[showmasters]

 

Once you experience free, you are gonna be less inclined to pay lol, just saying if it were ppls worries about slight dip in quality prints wouldnt matter as you got instant plus the quality download.

 

ive never left a SM event without a pic, but i know it can happen due to trains ect, happened to me at thall that shaunt be named con

 

we do not plan to drop any quality as that would be going backwards , we have used the printers twice now and no one noticed and we did not see a difference with the quality , so we have found the printers and we will invest in these, as to Jpegs being free sorry everything has a cost something and offering this serves cost us money so we do not feel bad in any way that we are offering something new and charging for the serves , more on this as we start to offer it , but if you want to by photo ops then nothing will change for you apart from you will get them back faster in around a hour , it will be that time as we do believe you HAVE to run it past the eyes of someone qualified and there to keep an eye on the quality , if you by pass this person to speed up the time it takes to print the image YOU WILL louse quality , and that is not something we will not let happen , you want to keep these images for life and we want to be able to stand by them, so if you want a jpeg soon you will be able to buy them , if you do not thats also fine its not an issue .

 

at the end of the day we are just moving along with the times keeping up to date and keeping the quality you have had from Showmasters i hope that helps

 

jason

[froz1]

Dye-Sublimation printers are fine for this sort of thing - I've used them myself and never had any complaints with the quality. Pretty much the same process as is used in the touch screen instant photo machines in photo shops, so there shouldn't be any problems - definitely better than printing on a standard inkjet printer like I've seen in the past at some events.

[timelord81r]

Once you experience free, you are gonna be less inclined to pay lol, just saying if it were ppls worries about slight dip in quality prints wouldnt matter as you got instant plus the quality download.

 

ive never left a SM event without a pic, but i know it can happen due to trains ect, happened to me at thall that shaunt be named con

 

we do not plan to drop any quality as that would be going backwards , we have used the printers twice now and no one noticed and we did not see a difference with the quality , so we have found the printers and we will invest in these, as to Jpegs being free sorry everything has a cost something and offering this serves cost us money so we do not feel bad in any way that we are offering something new and charging for the serves , more on this as we start to offer it , but if you want to by photo ops then nothing will change for you apart from you will get them back faster in around a hour , it will be that time as we do believe you HAVE to run it past the eyes of someone qualified and there to keep an eye on the quality , if you by pass this person to speed up the time it takes to print the image YOU WILL louse quality , and that is not something we will not let happen , you want to keep these images for life and we want to be able to stand by them, so if you want a jpeg soon you will be able to buy them , if you do not thats also fine its not an issue .

 

at the end of the day we are just moving along with the times keeping up to date and keeping the quality you have had from Showmasters i hope that helps

 

jason

 

 

how much post production as it were is done? i mean i was asked at autographica if I wanted my blinked eyes photo shopped or have a re shoot, are you insane i thought, re shoot please,

 

I cant see jpegs taking off if they are over a fiver imo, then again saying this US cons charge similar and seem to sell enough. for me it would be cherry picking only very special ones at that cost to do a jpeg also.

 

but cost or not, high or not the option is always preferred for sure. so I look forward to this being implemented in the future with SM

Edited May 15, 2012 by timelord81r

[Elspeth]

Wow took me a while to get through that post. I do enjoy reading long posts from SM though

 

Sounds like you guys have put a lot of thought into photoshoots, which is great to hear, you've set yourselves a very high standard and don't want the quality to decrease. As attendees we thank you for this!

I've too have never left without any photoshoots on the day, so I can't personally complain about the old system. I am aware however that people do due to mix up at the printers ect ect, so any way of helping with that would be great. Photoshoot pickups have improved greatly over the years (with the gloves) separate areas boards saying which one are ready to pick up, so it's great to see you improving them still.

 

I would LOVE to see Jpegs available after events, scanned images are never as good as the actual files. I understand that the added time it would take to do this would warrant some kind of cost, especially if it will help pay for the printers without putting up the price of the photoshoots themselves. However, I do feel that £5-6 could be a little to expensive. While I do not have as many photoshoots as Rockstar6662 I do have 15 photoshoots booked for CM:MK which would be £75-90 for Jpegs, After having spent hundreds of £s on the shoots themselves and autographs this would be too much money for me. If it were £2-3 a JPEG I would consider it. Especially on a £10 photoshoot!

I know you are not a fan of "gimmicks" but maybe if people had over a certain number of photos they wanted JPEGs for there could be some kind of deal, like nobody would pay over £40-50 at one event for digital copies etc.

If JPEGs were introduced I would imagine that photo pick up would be even busier than it already is, as people would spend extra time filling out forms and paying ect etc, so if it were to work I think it would have to be separate area. A designated JPEG desk. Also, because it would be so busy on the day I would be inclined to do it online after the event, but this would cost £6 a photo. Or would it be and extra £1 added to the entire order if you wanted more than 1 photo? Perhaps it would serve well to have an option when you buy a photoshoot on the online shop before the event to opt in for a JPEG copy early, that way the card charge is already being processed, so the extra £1 wouldn't affect everyone. Obviously, not everyone would go for this as some may like to see their photoshoots first, but I would prefer to do it before without massive queues at the event and extra costs online after.

 

Anyway, these are just my 2cents worth. I think it's great that you guys are moving forward with the photoshoots and can't wait to see what happens in the future!

[The Emperor]

Well I'm glad that that other show has brought about this debate and an updating in things some of us have long asked for like jpegs etc. I would of course hope that a way could be found for previous photoshoot jpegs to become available. As I'm sure the cash that could be generated from that would be preferable to them just sitting there on their memory cards? Paying for them of course is a given.

[Zak123]

When will the jpeg's start? Like at which event

[TommyT]

I know you are not a fan of "gimmicks" but maybe if people had over a certain number of photos they wanted JPEGs for there could be some kind of deal, like nobody would pay over £40-50 at one event for digital copies etc.

That's an idea, since doing three on one order wouldn't take three times as much work, plus the overall percentage cost of the card processing fee diminishes once you start increasing the transaction value. Something like a fiver for one, nine quid for two, £12 for 3, £15 for 4 or 5, £20 for 6-8, £25 for up to a dozen, £30 for 13-20 and £35 for up to 30. (That should cover most folks, shouldn't it?)

That way it encourages a bit of extra spend (generating more revenue) and also "rewards" those who've had lots of photoshoots. (Obviously it would have to be a case of you could only order your own pictures, not yours and a load of several mates just so you could get a bulk discount!)

[jael001]

I think it would be good to have a "deal" for those with a lot of photoshoots. I currently have 10 photoshoots booked for CM:MK and while I would love to have jpegs of all of them, a fiver each may be a bit much for me. As others have suggested, maybe a single cost for under 5 and then a slightly lesser fixed cost for 5-10, 10-15 etc?

[JacknDaniel]

Have to say, as someone who 'fought' for the JPEGs, I'm pretty disappointed that they'll be that price. I've always been sent them for free by others, and really don't get why it isn't possible here. I'd want JPEGs of all of mine, and I get a lot, but at that price, i'll likely not get any. After paying hundreds of pounds for the photo shoots, i'm not going to pay another £100 or so after each event for the same photos i've already paid for.

 

It also seemed like a real dig at 'the other event' in the first post. They did things well, some things not so well, I also saw a lot of SM regular crew etc at the event working, and thought it was good that the shows seemed to be bringing everyone together as corny as that sounds, but it seems like you're really just taking pot shots at something they tried to do and it didn't quite work, which they realised and changed overnight

[DavidB]

Without discussing other events, I think it's fair if Jason's raising these points based on the increased number of requests due to what happens elsewhere. It's sensible to try and take everything into account and compare logistics/finances and potential problems. Best to give a whole view of the situation. I will say I know of far more events where it's an additional option for a cost than it being free.

 

Anyway the point of this topic isn't to flare up con wars or anything, so let's keep discussion on price and demand etc rather than anything else.

Edited May 16, 2012 by DavidB

[alisonloub]

I don't normally reply on here much anymore but I wanted to add my 2p to this.

 

Last year I had my pix taken with DT, we waited, waited and yet we waited, no one hour for us and I still went home without the damn thing after showmasters decided the picture wasn't up to Malcolms usual work (my eyes were closed, apparently, I would have taken the orginal home tbh, my eyes are normally like that) so they wrote all over it, meaning I HAD to get something done about it, this isn't good in my opnion, I either HAD to get my shoot redone and eyes put in after or I HAD to get the picture re-copied in the original, either way, I wasn't taking that photo home with me!!. My suggestion: In stead of writing all over the bad copies, sorry "bad copies" why not have a desk for dodgy photos and ASK the person what they want to do, give them the option instead of deciding the fate of that photo yourself, they didn't know that I didn't have a condition that meant my eyes looked like that!! (sorry felt some humour was needed)

 

I still had to wait weeks for that to come, I emailed several times and only got one reply and no 'sorrys' at all, only the lovely ria I think on the day.

 

I put that photo away and it hasn't come out since, I can't look at it now as it doesn't fill me with the same passion I had on the day for it, everything joyful about that weekend was taken away by that action (this may seem dramatic but it's true, people who have experienced this will know what I am on about!).

 

I vowed never to have a photo taken at another SM event again but after seeing Callum Blue was coming to MK, I thought I would give them another chance!!.

 

Thats my bit.