A few observations about C8 prices

[smile]

im willing to pay more for decent established actors (donald/kiefer sutherland,christopher lee etc) people with careers not some one hit wonder you know?

[nickysgirl77]

QUOTE (dufresne @ Jul 7 2005, 05:26 PM)

QUOTE (red8886 @ Jul 7 2005, 04:19 PM)

Nick Brendon was definatly £20 cause i have a picture and it has the price in it.

 

i thought maybe him and Kelly would be like £20/5 for the two thats insane i won't be paying £15 for someone who played someone else palying someone else for one episde

 

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif Good logic !

 

I don't watch Buffy - how does this Kelly person fit in exactly ?

 

Well hes nicks twin brother and there was an episode wher his character was split in two. In the scences where the two Xanders were toghether the more mature Xander was played by Kelly

 

I guess it just depends on how much of a fan of one show you are. I met Nick at C6 and paid £20. Kelly & Nick were both at another con in the UK and I regret not meeting Kelly then. He is v.funny and he and Nick are lovely together. I would def pay to see him (although I may not be going to C8 due to expense )

hugs

erin

[lams9999]

Giggle,

 

I fully agree with your message above.

 

I was at the same event too and a few hours on sunday at LFCC3. You have

perfectly expressed my feelings

[Mondasant63]

I've also heard that some of these US stars are only charging the dollar equivalent of the UK charges at American events (£20/$20 etc). I know they have to travel to the UK to attend, but then the same is often true of attending events in the US. It's a big place and internal travel isn't as cheap as it used to be. I can't help but feel that some of them are taking advantage, although there are exceptions. For example at the LFACC 2 last year, the big surprise was Chris Judge from Stargate SG-1. He was only charging £15 per autograph. I'd been expecting a charge of £20 so wasn't planning on having too many things signed. In the end I got four autographs for the price of the two I was expecting to get.

I keep hearing how nice these people are, how they love to meet fans. I'm not surprised when they can be clearing £250k for sitting down and scribbling on a photo. If they want to charge £20 then they should at least have a photo taken with you, or allow you to take a photo of them signing.

One reason I was given for the high charges in the UK is that the stars are trying to stop people selling their autographs on eBay or through other businesses (this came from Eliza Dushku's attendants last year at another event). They aren't stopping this trade by charging such large amounts, instead dealers are putting up their prices. The only way to stop the autograph trade is to personalize everything. Besides, when James Marsters was signing they were allowing dealers to enter the queue with no end of things.

By the way, the best bargain recently was Elisabeth Sladen from Doctor Who, she was only charging £5 per item at one recent event.

 

I'm going to a Doctor Who event in a couple of weeks. 10 guests, two free autographs per guest per visit to the autograph table (go round as many times as you like while they are signing.) All this for £32.50.

[TheRobe]

Personalising everything doesn't really work though. You can easily remove the personalising with (certain substances) and there were people getting items signed to 'bob , aj' people with short names so they can remove less.

It's cheeky but it goes on and sadly i don't think it's gonna stop going on.

 

And yes Elisabethan sladen is absolutely lovely isn't she?

[Giggle]

Giggle,

 

I fully agree with your message above.

 

I was at the same event too and a few hours on sunday at LFCC3. You have

perfectly expressed my feelings

Thank you. It's just a shame we'll probably never see an official response to any of the points I made.

[MikeDonovan]

I'm going to a Doctor Who event in a couple of weeks.  10 guests, two free autographs per guest per visit to the autograph table (go round as many times as you like while they are signing.)  All this for £32.50.

This is all well and good, and sounds great on the face of it, until you actually look at the guests that were there. With almost no exceptions these guys have their career behind them, and in most cases their career was pretty niche at the best of times.

 

I don't mean to be cruel to them, really I don't - just factual - the bottom line is there is a huge difference between a guy who was in Doctor Who 40 years ago and a couple of episodes of a soap since (i.e. Frazer Hines), and a guy who is a lead star of a current TV show that has global appeal and costs upwards of £1.5m dollars per episode (i.e. Chris Judge).

 

All due respect to the Dr Who guys like Frazer Hines etc, but they really are not in the same league as the bigger SM guests, any more than Chris Judge (bless his little cottons) is in the same league as Johnny Depp. If Frazer Hines could charge £20 an auto he would - end of story.

Edited July 10, 2005 by MikeDonovan

[Persephone1]

I think the issue here isn't the value or perceived lack thereof of signing events compared to conventions. The problem is the arbitrary nature of the price bands at Showmasters events. I would expect to pay £20 for a major Buffy/Angel/LOTR/film star guest - but the problem lies with the £15 bracket. Essentially at Showmasters events virtually everyone comes within this bracket - whether they have had a long and distinguished career or whether they have played a tiny bit part in a popular show or tv series. At LFCC2 I would cheerfully have gotten my Alien quadrilogy boxset signed by most of the secondary players who took part in the Alien reunion......if they had been £5 each - not £15 each. Every time I go to a Showmasters event I look at the people present and think that I would have gotten another 5/10 autos - if they were £5 - 10 each. But at £15 you can only really afford to get those you really really want. Which means that the smaller guests tend to sit there at these events bored stiff for hours and hours on end with absolutely no punters. If they'd been cheaper the event would ultimately be more profitable - which means that something is going very wrong somewhere.

 

Take another signing event I attended as an example - there several of the guests allowed cheaper prices for personal items. Mirina Sirtis was £15 for a 10 x 8 photo - but a £5 if you had your own item! Once the guy in front of me realised that he had every item he'd bought with him (at least 10) signed by her - so he spent £50+ when if it had been £15 per item he would only have spent £15.

 

Relaistically it isn't going to take very long before people are only prepared to pay the £15/£20 for the really major guests - which means that second stormtrooper on the left will no longer be cost effective for Showmasters to book. People like to see the smaller guests - they just don't want to pay through the nose for them. It's about time Showmasters realised that.

[DavidB]

It's always people that want multiple items signed that worry more about the prices. And yet when I've worked at events I've seen so many people only WANT one item signed! No, it's not been "oh it's £15 I'll only get one ...", they do actually only want one item signed. I'm like that, I don't need multiple same autographs in my collection.

 

What makes you think that making a guest £5 would be at all financially viable? I don't think they'd turn a profit from that. Sure it's better for people who want multiple items, but what about the many that only want one item? Yes they'd save themselves £10, but the guests? They'd be making £5 from that instead of £15! I doubt they'd be too happy about that.

 

Maybe it'd even itself out, maybe it wouldn't, but I doubt they'd be willing to risk lowering the prices THAT MUCH to find out!

 

Fact is they probably break even on the smaller guests and that's all that's needed really. If they were lower prices then there's no guarantees that everyone would want more than one item anyway. For every person that decides to get THREE items at £5, there's gonna be another person who STILL only wants one at £5, u know?

[The Host]

i can safely that i will not pay 15 pounds for Kelly

 

 

he was in about three episodes all together and not worth 15 quid

 

there is a certain limit to what you would spend on an auto for the level of guests and i would pay a tenner for Kelly and that is it

 

for what it is worth Nick was a main character on a very popular show for 7 years and is well worth the 20 quid

 

same as if someone said Ewan Mcgregor was doing a signing and was charging 60 quid i would pay that cause he is a top bracket actor not some stand in

[TheRobe]

Mike, The event that mondasant was talking about do have guests whose career is very current and could charge 15 - 20q just as one of them did at Lffc and had a busy q the whole time. J, Barrowman is a very current guest whose career is constantly evolving the whole time having been in recent major films like De-Lovely and is also in the upcoming producers. You can't say his career is 'behind' him.

 

This particular doctor who event has stars from the recent television series and who are also going to be in the next and possibly third series of doctor who and yet they are still going to be free autographs as mondasant was stating.

 

True Mike, some of the guests at this event are lesser known and couldn't charge 20q for a autograph but there are some who could.

[Persephone1]

It's always people that want multiple items signed that worry more about the prices

 

Nope disagree entirely with this. I'm not interested in multiple autographs - that really wasn't the point I was making at all. At every Showmasters event I have been to there has been an average of 6 guests I would get an autograph from if they were £5 but I will absolutely not pay £15 for as their autograph isn't even worth that on the open market. So if there are 10 people that feel like me at each event that is 60 autographs Showmasters is missing out on. Multiply those 10 people by a hundred and Showmasters are actually losing out on a massive amount of money at each event by setting the autograph prices too high.

 

Having £5 guests may not initially appear to be financially viable but at the end of the day it is a case of simple mathematics. If Kelly Donovan was a £5 I would imagine that the vast majority of die hard Buffy fans would get his autograph on their box sets, Sunnydale High year books etc. If he is £15 he will be very very lucky if he sells 50 autographs over the entire weekend. Showmasters will have paid for his flight, his hotel, an appearance fee, paid for staff to take care of him, paid for people to drive him to and from the venue and of course all his food and drink while he is in the country and for what? Barely 50 autographs? They may as well open a sewer drain and tip the contents of their bank account into it.

 

Don't get me wrong I enjoy Showmasters events but this blanket £15 an autograph fee simply can't be sustained - particularly when many of the guests they are charging it for are regulars on the con circuit and won't charge that amount anywhere else. People will ultimately vote with their wallets - its inevitable. Introduce a £10 bracket or have a cheaper price for personal items - its the only way I can see to make the smaller guests profitable.

[Dom]

Don`t underestimate the Buffy fans. He will get £15 all weekend long

[martine]

in the past i've decided to not get an autograph of someone because they where 5 pounds to expensive for me.or i just took one in stead of 2 or 3.

 

for example bernard hill was 15 on the saturday. i got one but wanted another one afterwards because i couldn't decide on the photograph and he has a carreer and played in many different films. so i went back the next day to find him at 20 pounds. okey initially i would have paid 20 pounds as well but wouldn't have gotten two items. because he was 20 i didn't get him and in the end SM lost 15 pounds on that auto alone because i kept it in my pocket aand didn't spend it for anther autograph.

 

can't remember the names and such but there where just numerous times when i thought, oh i want them but they where 15 pounds while in my eyes they where only worth 10. sala baker, the third orc from the left, the alien reunion people etc... no disrespect meant but someone who played in lotr for 3 minutes charges the same as someone with numerous big roles in tv series or movies. and that's.....well not worth it for me and no i didn't spend it on other autographs as well. so they lost A LOT of money from me alone. if they where 5 pounds cheaper i would have gotten them all.

 

they don't have to be 5 pounds (or perhaps only for a second item which is personal or something), 10 pounds would be ''low'' enough for me and convince me to buy more autographs. and i'm sure i'm not alone, more people (like my friends) have that asw ell. to bad SM don't realise that, they could have earned a lot more money with lfcc2.

[TommyT]

I keep hearing how nice these people are, how they love to meet fans. I'm not surprised when they can be clearing £250k for sitting down and scribbling on a photo. If they want to charge £20 then they should at least have a photo taken with you, or allow you to take a photo of them signing.

Oh please! Do some elementary mathematics! If they're making £250k from charging £20 a time, then they would have to sign 12,500 autographs. And that's assuming they get all of the £20 per auto and some isn't taken by the event organiser as profit and to offset event costs.

And even if they sign 6 items a minute solidly without a break, 12,500 items still takes them nearly 35 hours of solid signing.

Please consider how realistic your figures are before you start bandying them around in such a potentially emotive fashion.

[MikeDonovan]

I keep hearing how nice these people are, how they love to meet fans.  I'm not surprised when they can be clearing £250k for sitting down and scribbling on a photo.  If they want to charge £20 then they should at least have a photo taken with you, or allow you to take a photo of them signing.

Oh please! Do some elementary mathematics! If they're making £250k from charging £20 a time, then they would have to sign 12,500 autographs. And that's assuming they get all of the £20 per auto and some isn't taken by the event organiser as profit and to offset event costs.

And even if they sign 6 items a minute solidly without a break, 12,500 items still takes them nearly 35 hours of solid signing.

Please consider how realistic your figures are before you start bandying them around in such a potentially emotive fashion.

Tommy T is absolutely right here - think about it people. Consider Jeri Ryan for a moment. Now, I suspect that if SM did get her, she would be £25, but lets say she was £20. Lets do some basic maths.

 

Average sigs per hour - lets say 30 seconds per sig? that's even a bit conservative when SM bundle people through, but lets go with it. So, that's 120 sigs per hour, i.e. £20 * 120 = £2400 per hour.

 

So how long would Jeri be signing? Well, lets say she signed both days, 6 hours a day. So thats 12 hours * £2400 = £28800.

 

Lets say Jeris fee was £10,000 (i.e. $20,000 at the moment). Sounds like a lot eh? Well, lets think of it this way. Showmasters would have to pay for her first class flight and some nice accomodation, which might come to the best part of £8,000 on top. That leaves SM £10,800 profit (not counting costs).

 

What happens is she charges £25? Well, intuitively enough this makes her total income £28800 + £7200 = £36000, making SM £18000 profit. Sounds like a lot of course, but SM have some huge costs to cover, and bear in mind this a a biannual event.

 

So whoever cam up with this £250,000 rubbish is.... well, mistaken, lets put it that way.

 

PS I would not be surprised to find that Jeris fee might even be bigger than this, but of course SM will not tell us (and that's fair enough)..... also bear in mind that some of the bigger guests have have little 'retinues' that have to be paid for (i..e Val Kilmers security person for instance).

[martine]

carrie fisher got paid way more then your estimated jeri ryan fee. don't forget there are dealers and many people with multiple items and then it doesn't take 30 seconds for one autograph. especially not with the way people are herded through the qeueus these days.

 

nope i could buy a nice house for what carrie fisher got but 250.000 is way to much, otherwise they would have gotten the likes of natalie portman, mr T and scott bakula a long time ago and the autographprices would be more then 50 pounds to earn the money back and that's only when there are still so many people as in her que willing to get the autographs for those prices.

Edited July 11, 2005 by martine

[Mondasant63]

Back to those who mention doing the maths with regard to the amount of money some guests are earning.

My figures do add up. Carrie Fisher started out on the Saturday charging £25 per signature. Allow for 1500 tickets being given out (and they did get near to that number) and then allow for an average of two signatures per person. That gives a rough figure of £75000 for the Saturday. On the Sunday a similar number of tickets were given out. That takes us up to £150000. Add on to that an appearance fee and the sums are done for you.

 

What we have to take into account is the fact that her autograph charge went up on the Saturday from £25 to £40. My friend and his wife were there, he got his autograph early, like I did, at the cost of £25. His wife went back later to get some other things signed and they had put up the price. She didn't pay it but some people did.

 

And as to the fact that the Doctor Who guests I'm going to see had their careers 40 years ago (most of them were actually only 20 years ago) doesn't that tell you something? The very fact that we want to meet these people is testimony to the enduring popularity of the show. How many of the Lord Of The Rings or Buffy guests will still be drawing attendees in in 20 years. The sad fact is that a lot of the guests we are paying good money for today won't have careers that last anywhere near as long.

[mpharris]

At C7, all the Doctor Who guests except Paul McGann and Noel Clarke were only charging £10, even Daphne Ashbrook who had come from the US (as indeed had Matthew Waterhouse who now lives there). I think this is the fair amount for "regular" signers, I'll happily pay £15 for major characters and less common signers and £20 for big names, but anything more than that I think is pushing it unless it is for a really rare signer or a living legend, e.g. Christopher Lee.

[Dom]

Chris Lee did a signing and it was £40 to get in and £40 per auto and you were not guarenteed more than one.

 

There was other stuff to do there, but that is still £80 per auto

[chris_mk]

Back to those who mention doing the maths with regard to the amount of money some guests are earning.

My figures do add up. Carrie Fisher started out on the Saturday charging £25 per signature. Allow for 1500 tickets being given out (and they did get near to that number) and then allow for an average of two signatures per person. That gives a rough figure of £75000 for the Saturday. On the Sunday a similar number of tickets were given out. That takes us up to £150000. Add on to that an appearance fee and the sums are done for you.

 

What we have to take into account is the fact that her autograph charge went up on the Saturday from £25 to £40. My friend and his wife were there, he got his autograph early, like I did, at the cost of £25. His wife went back later to get some other things signed and they had put up the price. She didn't pay it but some people did.

 

And as to the fact that the Doctor Who guests I'm going to see had their careers 40 years ago (most of them were actually only 20 years ago) doesn't that tell you something? The very fact that we want to meet these people is testimony to the enduring popularity of the show. How many of the Lord Of The Rings or Buffy guests will still be drawing attendees in in 20 years. The sad fact is that a lot of the guests we are paying good money for today won't have careers that last anywhere near as long.

Why are you adding on the appearance fee to your total of 150K?

 

she doesn't get ALL the money from the auto's AND an appearance fee!!

 

I'm sure the guests get some part of the revenue from every auto signed... this gives them an incentive to sign as many as possible (not accounting for cool guests like Simon Pegg, who I suspect actually want to MEET as many people as possible!)

[TommyT]

Back to those who mention doing the maths with regard to the amount of money some guests are earning.

My figures do add up.  Carrie Fisher started out on the Saturday charging £25 per signature.  Allow for 1500 tickets being given out (and they did get near to that number) and then allow for an average of two signatures per person.  That gives a rough figure of £75000 for the Saturday.  On the Sunday a similar number of tickets were given out.  That takes us up to £150000.  Add on to that an appearance fee and the sums are done for you.

A few points:

* 1500 tickets given out does not necessarily mean 1500 tickets redeemed. There will be a certain number who give up, have to go home, run out of money or change their mind (perhaps because in the meantime they've found other stuff to spend their cash on), people who get a second ticket so that their parent/partner/friend can stand in the queue with them, even a few lost tickets. And did they actually get round to redeeming all the tickets, or were there still people at the end of the day whose numbers hadn't been called?

* An average of 2 sigs per person? I think this may be high. For every person who has 5 items that they want signing, I'll bet that there's at least 5 people who only want one sig (especially at £25, let alone £40 a pop) - that would be 10 items between 6 people, or 1.67 each, which immediately knocks your figure down by a sixth. I'd be interested to hear from people who crew these events what their experience of the average number of sigs per customer is, especially for guests at that price

* As has been mentioned elsewhere, you're assuming that she keeps all the money from signing, plus gets an appearance fee. So how do the organisers cover their costs (staff, photos, venue hire, catering, advertising, administration, and numerous other things), let alone make a profit?

* Let's assume that she signs from 9am until 5pm, and is so dedicated that she only takes out half an hour in total from that time for a bite to eat, toilet visitations etc during the whole day. That means she's doing a solid 7.5 hours signing. Based on your figures of 1500 punters, that's 200 separate punters per hour, per 60 minutes, per 3600 seconds. You're suggesting that every 18 seconds a new punter comes up, hands over two items, gets them signed and leaves, and exactly 18 seconds after the first punter appeared in front of her, another punter is there with their two items. And that this goes on for seven and a half solid hours per day? Try continually signing your signature every 9 seconds and see how long you can keep going (not that i'm going to pay you a quarter of a million quid, or even a tenner, for your efforts )

[lams9999]

Try continually signing your signature every 9 seconds and see how long you can keep going (not that i'm going to pay you a quarter of a million quid, or even a tenner, for your efforts )

[TheRobe]

Chris Lee did a signing and it was £40 to get in and £40 per auto and you were not guarenteed more than one.

 

There was other stuff to do there, but that is still £80 per auto

I was at a Christopher Lee event in November. This was 25quid entry plus 30 pound per signature on whatever item you wanted.

 

The signatures were limited to three per person (with the oppurtunity to get more should you wish)

 

I for one think this is very reasonable to pay to meet a living legend.

 

Maybe you were at a different event?

[lams9999]

I know someone who had five autographs. There were not a lot of people, so there was no limit I think. You could not have a picture with Mr Lee but you could take one of him while he was signing your stuffs. And I think it was a full day with also a Q/A and screenings of some of his movies. So the price sounded very reasonable to me. It's not like you are in front of him for 30 seconds.

Edited July 11, 2005 by lams9999