SlippDigby Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 But I think that is where the problem lies, in trying to be all-things-to-all-people...it is being neither fish-nor-fowl. If it can attract many new casual viewers with trashy titles like "Let's kill Hitler" then that's great, but when those ones actually watch it, only to find a story with an indecipherable arc (that will mean nothing to them) how many more episodes do you think they will watch? Was pointed to this review which I think really sums up the problems with season 6.2... http://www.assignmentx.com/2011/tv-review-...ts-kill-hitler/ I will stick with this season, only because of what Matt Smith is doing as the Doctor, I think that as the backbone of the show, he is the only thing that is holding my interest at the moment. I must confess, and despite how gorgeous Alex K and Karen G are, even I am a bit bored of the River Song/Melody Pond arc. More than half way through the whole season and we have had practially no pay-off. It is badly unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSi13 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Loved this episode. Understood it from start to finish, but can see why some people may not have. Did anyone realise that Moff has basically extended the lives of The Doctor by River Song reviving him with her remaining lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timelord81r Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Loved this episode. Understood it from start to finish, but can see why some people may not have. Did anyone realise that Moff has basically extended the lives of The Doctor by River Song reviving him with her remaining lives. I understood it all, problem was it left some plot holes when thinking back to other eps. or should I say made some plot holes!! sw prequel style baby that wasnt stated though was it? it was just stated she used her remaining regens to bring him back, doesnt mean he has gone from what was it 512 to 1024. not that it even matters with those numbers lol arghh stupid title, and from the link above, i agree about most of that. esp the bit mentioning the setting of late 30s nazi germany and hitler are completely wasted, this ep could of been set anywhere, at any time, in a bloody empty room or the tardis even. waste of such an historically important period and historically evil ppl. and yer is river really a bigger war criminal than hitler and the nazi regime? I think not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippDigby Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Loved this episode. Understood it from start to finish, but can see why some people may not have. Did anyone realise that Moff has basically extended the lives of The Doctor by River Song reviving him with her remaining lives. I understood it. It wasn't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSi13 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 It wasn't very good. That's a shame. It is never good when you don't enjoy something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbrookes Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Regarding River not knowing about the astronaut if it was her, remember she has to lie. She can't say stuff like that because although it has happened for her not all of it has for The Doctor and saying the wrong thing can cause problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timelord81r Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Regarding River not knowing about the astronaut if it was her, remember she has to lie. She can't say stuff like that because although it has happened for her not all of it has for The Doctor and saying the wrong thing can cause problems. its easy to say this, but watching the ep, what she says is completely innocent, also she is shocked and slaps the doc for inviting her to his death, well surely she would know, that was his death, unless of course everything we have seen her say and do are lies and one big act, in which case, why bother investing in her? feels more like the moff is changing it as he goes. in LKH she is openly referring to amy rory as parents, in time of angels she barely acknowledges amy esp at first and later no more than just the docs companion, in pandorica opens she doesnt know amys house and doctor dolls ect, despite mels practically living there and with amy growing up. and half of that was river alone, who was she lieing to there? us? us only? lol it is of course possible we learn that when she awakes from her ordeal of saving the doc, moments after killing him lol, she cant remember stuff? but who knows right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoTtHeAdWhOvIaN Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 my final opinion is it was a good episode but im getting exstreamly annoyed with rivers story going on so long also the meeting at different time the whole plot is confusing and irritating sorry if you dont agree i prefered series 5 also now they know more about river and she was brought up to kill the doctor wouldnt it change histiry which is bad also think about the 6-7 year olds trying to follow the plot lines very adult and confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam.anouer Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 The only reason you dudes are moaning is because it was pretty predictable if I'm really honest and it didn't really give too much away. Honestly Mel's was pretty cool...kind of annoying aswell she reminds me too much of...someone. Alex Kingston was the star throughout the entire episode there is no denying it all of it was about the Amazing River song and undeniably well executed on her part. The Doctor was pretty awesome too although didn't really do that much if I'm honest. Rory got to punch hitler adding to the awesomeness he showed in A good man goes to war and Karen just like wow so cute and you've gotta love that "Rory is gay thing" bless. As for the Tessellecta if I'm completely honest it seems like it was only put in soley so the episode could have some kinda real villain. I haven't lost any respect for Moffat this episode though I have lost a considerable amount for the people who tried to ruin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timelord81r Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 lol who tried to ruin it? the teleselector plot was awful, made no sense as it contradicted itself, also surely the doc would stop them indefinitely ? the ep title horrifically crap river/alex was amazing and hot matt as always was amazing and brilliant mels was hot & cool the rory gay line was funny, and arthur was heartbreaking in that scene I know im perhaps nick picking more than others, but some seem to blindly accept the whole thing without thinking about it at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam.anouer Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 lol who tried to ruin it? the teleselector plot was awful, made no sense as it contradicted itself, also surely the doc would stop them indefinitely ? the ep title horrifically crap river/alex was amazing and hot matt as always was amazing and brilliant mels was hot & cool the rory gay line was funny, and arthur was heartbreaking in that scene I know im perhaps nick picking more than others, but some seem to blindly accept the whole thing without thinking about it at all The people who tried to ruin it were the idiots who made out like the episode was gonna be the second coming like a super mega giga episode with all the answers. The Teselector served absolutely no purpose whatsoever aside from giving Amy and Rory someone to save river from...it was quite unnecessary if I'm honest. For me the one thing I wanna know is about The Silence and who really crashed the TARDIS in the last season. Karen's always hot and cute. Alex in this episode was incredible especially in the first 10 minutes just made her so appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosfer2 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I know im perhaps nick picking more than others With the greatest of respect, I have to pick you up on this. I think the word you're looking for is "nit-picking". (As a member of the Nit-Pickers Guild ever since the Star Trek books I've come across the term many times!) Official figures give this episode an appreciation index score of 85 out of 100, showing that the public at large were very satisfied with the episode. (Not to contradict your points, just throwing it out there for discussion.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoff Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I just watched it again and actually enjoyed it a lot more the second time. Still, there were some bits I have an issue with though. I didn't like that they wasted the opportunity to tell a decent wartime story with Hitler, or the flying robots that were going around killing people. Also, if Amy was able to use the sonic screwdriver to turn everyone's bracelets red, why not keep hers and Rory's green, or turn them back to green afterwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippDigby Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Official figures give this episode an appreciation index score of 85 out of 100, showing that the public at large were very satisfied with the episode. And you got this 85% rating from where? Official figures...which ones are they then, whose version of 'official' are you talking about? As for people trying to ruin it by expecting all the answers...what a silly thing to say! When you have reached past the midway point of a season, you need to have had some serious pay-off on alot of the questions built from the previous season, and from what has been set up in the current one. This has not yet happened and the only thing that's 'official' is that we are now 'officially' in the latter half of the season. It is unbalanced writing. I like very much indeed what Moffatt did with the previous season, I really do. It was a real true breath of fresh air for the show, and head-and-shoulders above and beyond RTD. I like arc-centric stories immensely, my all time favourite show is BABYLON 5 and you don't get much more arc-centric than that. I don't mind that the series is arc-centric, it means that you have to watch and think about things as well as remember what came before. I just feel that it has swung a little too far too quickly in that direction, all in one season, which not quite enough pay-offs within the context of the story so far. Not to mention that blasted mid-season break to scupper the fluid build-up and progression of the story as it moves along. Genuine constructive comment to The Grand Moff (should he be reading this), we don't need mid-season break Mr Moffat, we are not Americans, who seem to have been conditioned to expect them. I think that our attentions spans are much longer over here in the UK. Edited August 31, 2011 by SlippDigby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacknDaniel Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I know im perhaps nick picking more than others With the greatest of respect, I have to pick you up on this. I think the word you're looking for is "nit-picking". (As a member of the Nit-Pickers Guild ever since the Star Trek books I've come across the term many times!) Official figures give this episode an appreciation index score of 85 out of 100, showing that the public at large were very satisfied with the episode. (Not to contradict your points, just throwing it out there for discussion.) It is reasons like that that I don't understand people saying things like this series isn't as popular as the others, viewing figures are falling, people are too confused. Bo||ocks. The show is maintaing its popularity, the majority of viewers are obviously still enjoying it as much as they usually have, and I think people have a lot more of an attention span and brains than some people seem to think. Everyone I know who watches Doctor Who still enjoys it, still loves to watch it, and doesn't criticise it half as much as some people on here. Some of them are hardcore fans, some of them are casual fans, but it's obviously doing its job. Forgive me for saying, Timelord81r, but you no longer seem to watch the show as a normal viewer, but as a critic. If you read reviews, you'll find that the people reviewing are critics, they are there to nit-pick and find things wrong with the show, which is what you have been doing with every single episode to the extreme on here. I'm not saying don't express your opinion, but by God, your the loudest voice in here and it's constantly spitting venom about the show except for how hot the women are in it. It's the main reason I no longer come into this section to give my opinion of the show, anything positive that is said is completely overshadowed by the negatives thrown around in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timelord81r Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) 1st, perhaps im not a normal viewer, thats cos Im a life long fan, so of course im going to be more critical than some new fan finding the show. 2nd, spitting venom? thats a bit harsh, also I think you will find for every negative post there are equal positive posts from me, check out my thoughts on doctors wife, almost ppl 2 parter, TIA! check out my praise for series 5 for christ sake. 3rd, there is nothing wrong in saying the women are hot! and if you notice im also always complimenting matt smith, pat troughton aside, he is my fav doctor, I think he is great, now I dont call him hot, thats cos im not into men, if I was then perhaps I would! and saying this, in the same post with the hottness, I posted about how heartbreaking arthurs acting was in a certain scene, and how amazing matt was (all in an episode I didnt like) see positive things! Ive stopped reading any type of reviews, I got tired of them either spoiling eps or me guessing whats gonna happen before seeing the eps. I think your a tad mistaken, I may be a louder voice on this section at present, but that voice "spouts" both good and bad on my opinions of the show. which are just that, my opinions, one of the reasons I sometimes stop posting on this forum are cos I get tired of attacks, some ppl cant take other ppls opinions and will jump on you over the smallest of things. this post surprised me, I dont want to be the reason someone stops posting, but at the same time, why should my opinions be any less valid than someone elses? im not a one sided attacker who hates the show, I love doctor who, all my life, I may critise some but I also praise it to the heavens! I also invest alot of time and money in following my favorite show, think that entitles a person to their opinions in a public forum about said show. cheers. p.s oh also I didnt say this series was less popular, I said ive read both reports that its more popular and less, and put my opinion on the matter. I also stated I understand the need for the casual xfactor viewer to be kept viewing the show, this is how a show stays on top, even if some of it annoys me, ill take it over no show lol For instance I loveeeed them showing Rose, Martha and Donna, I've always had an issue with the doctor regenerating and seeming like a 100% different person so I thought it was a nice touch. actually I also liked this, showing some past companions, ive always loved the hologram bit, the eccleston one in series 1 was brilliant, although I dont get why jack and idris were not shown at least! also why is he guilty over rose and martha? both ended up fine and happy, martha married to micky! rose off on an alternate world with her father alive and her very own doctor. I know im perhaps nick picking more than others With the greatest of respect, I have to pick you up on this. I think the word you're looking for is "nit-picking". (As a member of the Nit-Pickers Guild ever since the Star Trek books I've come across the term many times!) Official figures give this episode an appreciation index score of 85 out of 100, showing that the public at large were very satisfied with the episode. (Not to contradict your points, just throwing it out there for discussion.) Forgive me for saying, Timelord81r, but you no longer seem to watch the show as a normal viewer, but as a critic. If you read reviews, you'll find that the people reviewing are critics, they are there to nit-pick and find things wrong with the show, which is what you have been doing with every single episode to the extreme on here. check out my post on the almost ppl! hardly an extreme venomous attack is it!! quite the opposite Edited August 31, 2011 by timelord81r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippDigby Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I know im perhaps nick picking more than others With the greatest of respect, I have to pick you up on this. I think the word you're looking for is "nit-picking". (As a member of the Nit-Pickers Guild ever since the Star Trek books I've come across the term many times!) Official figures give this episode an appreciation index score of 85 out of 100, showing that the public at large were very satisfied with the episode. (Not to contradict your points, just throwing it out there for discussion.) It is reasons like that that I don't understand people saying things like this series isn't as popular as the others, viewing figures are falling, people are too confused. Bo||ocks. The show is maintaing its popularity, the majority of viewers are obviously still enjoying it as much as they usually have, and I think people have a lot more of an attention span and brains than some people seem to think. Everyone I know who watches Doctor Who still enjoys it, still loves to watch it, and doesn't criticise it half as much as some people on here. Some of them are hardcore fans, some of them are casual fans, but it's obviously doing its job. Forgive me for saying, Timelord81r, but you no longer seem to watch the show as a normal viewer, but as a critic. If you read reviews, you'll find that the people reviewing are critics, they are there to nit-pick and find things wrong with the show, which is what you have been doing with every single episode to the extreme on here. I'm not saying don't express your opinion, but by God, your the loudest voice in here and it's constantly spitting venom about the show except for how hot the women are in it. It's the main reason I no longer come into this section to give my opinion of the show, anything positive that is said is completely overshadowed by the negatives thrown around in here. Just two points. And I am not rushing to TL81r's defence because I know that he is more than capable... Firstly, JnD you are basing your entire comment on a, so far, unsubstantiated statistic, and have gone way off the deep end doing it. You also seem to be missing an obvious observation about people who have a connection with a product that they have invested no small amount of time to. Now, I have never met TL81r...not once. We will have passed each other at CMs and LF&CCs, I know for a fact that we have we have both been to the same photoshoots, but I do not know him. But even with that, I know him well enough to know that he is a fan of the show. And it does not take an Einstein to figure out the spirit of what is being said. This is a fan of the show (as am I) that feels that this season has lost its way just a little. Don't underestimate the passion of a real fan, they write because they care about the programme. Critics write because they care about getting paid. I should know, I got into a real argument with Joe Michael Straczynski (creator, show-runner and main writer of BABYLON 5) over on FACEBOOK earlier in the month about his plans - unsuccessful as it turns out - to relaunch the show by giving it the dreaded reboot treatment. It's on Fans Of Joe Michael Straczynski's wall if you want to scroll down far enough and look, it's there to be seen. Secondly, as far as I am aware, a discussion forum (Hey!, just like this one!) is a place where people come to 'discuss' things. That's why they are called discussion forums. If that were not true, then they would be called 'Come here and don't say anything, in fact, leave the columns that should hold the texts of all the posts totally empty' forums. Sorry for the heavy handed sarcasm, but...what do you seriously expect people to do on a forum page...smile and wave but say nothing? Or should people wait for your opinion and then only be allowed to write things that are in agreement with you and you alone? I'm just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacknDaniel Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 ...wow, forget I said anything then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timelord81r Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 ...wow, forget I said anything then listen mate, you had a little dig at me and I responded, not sure if you read my reply (as it was long lol) I dont want anyone to stop posting cos of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippDigby Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Or should people wait for your opinion and then only be allowed to write things that are in agreement with you and you alone? For clarity, when I wrote that I meant 'you' as in 'people in general' and not 'you specifically JnD' More of a 'yous lot' rather than a 'you you'...as it were Glad that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timelord81r Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 I know im perhaps nick picking more than others With the greatest of respect, I have to pick you up on this. I think the word you're looking for is "nit-picking". (As a member of the Nit-Pickers Guild ever since the Star Trek books I've come across the term many times!) Official figures give this episode an appreciation index score of 85 out of 100, showing that the public at large were very satisfied with the episode. (Not to contradict your points, just throwing it out there for discussion.) It is reasons like that that I don't understand people saying things like this series isn't as popular as the others, viewing figures are falling, people are too confused. Bo||ocks. The show is maintaing its popularity, the majority of viewers are obviously still enjoying it as much as they usually have, and I think people have a lot more of an attention span and brains than some people seem to think. Everyone I know who watches Doctor Who still enjoys it, still loves to watch it, and doesn't criticise it half as much as some people on here. Some of them are hardcore fans, some of them are casual fans, but it's obviously doing its job. Forgive me for saying, Timelord81r, but you no longer seem to watch the show as a normal viewer, but as a critic. If you read reviews, you'll find that the people reviewing are critics, they are there to nit-pick and find things wrong with the show, which is what you have been doing with every single episode to the extreme on here. I'm not saying don't express your opinion, but by God, your the loudest voice in here and it's constantly spitting venom about the show except for how hot the women are in it. It's the main reason I no longer come into this section to give my opinion of the show, anything positive that is said is completely overshadowed by the negatives thrown around in here. Just two points. And I am not rushing to TL81r's defence because I know that he is more than capable... cheers. Ive been a fan all my life, from classic to new through the wilderness years, so I can get annoyed when ppl say im not a fan and such, just cos I criticize aspects, esp if they are new who only fans, not that im saying anyone in this convo is, not that there is anything wrong with that. thats based on other times ppl have had a go. yer ive been know to frequent a photo shoot or 2 ;-) I never got into B5, I tried, I really did, even recently I tried again, but I just cant connect with it long enough. id heard plans of relaunching it but I had no idea he wanted to remake it entirely, that sounds risky especially with the fan base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlippDigby Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) yer ive been know to frequent a photo shoot or 2 ;-) I never got into B5, I tried, I really did, even recently I tried again, but I just cant connect with it long enough. id heard plans of relaunching it but I had no idea he wanted to remake it entirely, that sounds risky especially with the fan base Or 3 or 4 or... Slightly OT but...A lot of folks started at season 2 when Bruce Boxleitner took over a show lead from Michael O'Hare, who found that the high stress environment of a weekly TV show was just not for him, as he had a much larger stage experience than his TV work. If you were to reconsider viewing it again at all, that's a good start off point. Season one is mostly set up for what is coming and even I, a huge fan can see that some of it is a bit....something...not sure what the right word is....necessary for all the pay-offs, but a bit mixed. Fair? Not sure Now back to our regular programming! I just read that Alex K is 48. 48! That just cannot be right. I have stood closer to her than my monitor screen is to me right now (just as you have TL81r)...and she does NOT look one day over 35! All of her acting skills and fame, that face and those jodhpurs....oooooh the jodhpurs! Edited August 31, 2011 by SlippDigby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosfer2 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Official figures give this episode an appreciation index score of 85 out of 100, showing that the public at large were very satisfied with the episode. And you got this 85% rating from where? Official figures...which ones are they then, whose version of 'official' are you talking about? Why are you always so aggressive whenever you respond to me on here? Firstly, my comment was not addressed to you, it was addressed to Rob, and secondly I didn't pluck these figures out of the air. Here is a link to the site where I found them: http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2011/08/dwn29...ill-hitler.html I'm surprised no-one else here knows about the Doctor Who news site, it's the first place I go to when I want to know what's going on with the show. Edit: I just found an explanation of AI figures: "The Appreciation Index or AI score measures how much the audience enjoyed the programme. The scores are based on the comments of a panel of around 5,000 people who rate and comment on programmes. A score of 85 is regarded as excellent." Further to this, "the overwhelming majority of television programmes score in the 60s or 70s." Edited August 31, 2011 by nosfer2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timelord81r Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 I thought 85 was the average for a drama? sure I read that recently, edit lol its actually on your link, yer I always look on that site for my dw news. The average score for BBC One is 80 with the average for the current Doctor Who timeslot being 82, and the average for Drama being 85 rarely does DW drop under 80 from memory? I would be very interested to know who these 5000 ppl were, wasnt it mainly families? I dont know. not that any of that effects my opinion of the ep, and ive said it before, even DW that I dont like or and disappointed in is better than most stuff on tv these days! and I think in this thread I said it maybe great tv but just doesnt feel like great DW! imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosfer2 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 rarely does DW drop under 80 from memory? Your memory is correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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