My huge Doctor Who episode marathon.

[The Friendly Dalek]

3 hours ago, Peter Capaldi Fan said:

It's possible your perception of an episode may change slightly.  Not sure how many times you've seen each episode (I suspect some more times than others). But you are older now than when you first started watching.  I certainly see Classic Who differently now as to when I was a child.  You will probably,  subconsciously,  compare episodes.  When you first saw Eccleston it was something new.  When you see the Whittaker episodes you have all the episodes that have gone before.  Someone watching Doctor Who for the first time last year may look more favourably on those episodes than someone who has seen it from the start.  Does that make an episode bad or just not as good as another? Still find it surprising that you and I have so far tended to agree on episodes - given there must be at least (cough, cough) 20 years between us you'd think we would have different perceptions. It's why I'm enjoying your marathon.  Shows that TV like Doctor Who bridges the generations. Just hope you don't think I'm contributing too much.  

Yeah, there's a couple of episodes in these later series which I've only seen once or twice since they aired (including most of series 11). Interestingly, I grew up watching both classic and new Who. my parents both watched the show when they were younger, so I was introduced to Doctor Who through them. They saw how much I loved modern Who and decided to sit me down in front of old vhs tapes of classic Who.  Thanks to that I'm don't really have any nostalgic feelings towards any era of the show, but 60s/70s Who is my favourite era now. 

I am also surprised by how often we agree on these episodes, but as they say, great minds tend to think alike. Doctor Who is definitely a timeless show. I watch it, my parents, watch it, their parents watched it, and if I ever have children I will make sure they watch it.  And there's no such thing as contributing too much,  most of the discussion in this thread is just between us two anyway, so if you didn't contribute this would be a very quiet and dull thread. I really enjoy our discussions, and I'm hoping that the Moffat era will see more differences in opinion as disagreements allows for more room for discussion. 

[The Friendly Dalek]

Planet Of The Dead- To be honest, I feel just about exactly the same way about this episode as I do about the previous one. The desert planet looks great, but the monsters are 50/50. I like the design of the stingray things, but the Tritovores look ridiculous. 

David Tennant is on top form, and I like Michelle Ryan in this episode. I was rather upset to see one of my favourite comedian, Lee Evans, be completely wasted in this. I didn't think that the supporting characters were interesting in the slightest. It's unfortunate because I can tell that the actors are trying but they aren't given great material. The writing and pacing aren't very good in this episode. The flying bus is another instance of something in this show going too silly, and it just doesn't work for me personally. There are a few comedic moments that land, but for the most part this is just a weak episode.

Overall- 3/10 (once again thanks to the leads and some nice visuals). 

Edited March 21, 2019 by The Friendly Dalek

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

Planet of the Dead - Spoilers.  I think this set of specials was a poor ending to the RTD era when you consider series 4.  This episode didn't work for me.  Tennant and Ryan are great but that's as positive as I can be. 

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

9 hours ago, The Friendly Dalek said:

Yeah, there's a couple of episodes in these later series which I've only seen once or twice since they aired (including most of series 11). Interestingly, I grew up watching both classic and new Who. my parents both watched the show when they were younger, so I was introduced to Doctor Who through them. They saw how much I loved modern Who and decided to sit me down in front of old vhs tapes of classic Who.  Thanks to that I'm don't really have any nostalgic feelings towards any era of the show, but 60s/70s Who is my favourite era now. 

I am also surprised by how often we agree on these episodes, but as they say, great minds tend to think alike. Doctor Who is definitely a timeless show. I watch it, my parents, watch it, their parents watched it, and if I ever have children I will make sure they watch it.  And there's no such thing as contributing too much,  most of the discussion in this thread is just between us two anyway, so if you didn't contribute this would be a very quiet and dull thread. I really enjoy our discussions, and I'm hoping that the Moffat era will see more differences in opinion as disagreements allows for more room for discussion. 

I have 2 older brothers to thank for getting me into Doctor Who.  Been watching since I was 5. We've all managed to introduce the next generation with varying degrees of long term success.  Very hard to pitch a programme to different age groups but on the whole it works - with the occasional exception. 

[shodgson]

11 hours ago, The Friendly Dalek said:

Yeah, there's a couple of episodes in these later series which I've only seen once or twice since they aired (including most of series 11). Interestingly, I grew up watching both classic and new Who. my parents both watched the show when they were younger, so I was introduced to Doctor Who through them. They saw how much I loved modern Who and decided to sit me down in front of old vhs tapes of classic Who.  Thanks to that I'm don't really have any nostalgic feelings towards any era of the show, but 60s/70s Who is my favourite era now. 

I am also surprised by how often we agree on these episodes, but as they say, great minds tend to think alike. Doctor Who is definitely a timeless show. I watch it, my parents, watch it, their parents watched it, and if I ever have children I will make sure they watch it.  And there's no such thing as contributing too much,  most of the discussion in this thread is just between us two anyway, so if you didn't contribute this would be a very quiet and dull thread. I really enjoy our discussions, and I'm hoping that the Moffat era will see more differences in opinion as disagreements allows for more room for discussion. 

Just like to say I enjoy reading this thread, keep it up.

 

The insights you guys give on the episodes are usually spot on with what i'm thinking myself. I must say I have started watching the 60s/70s era recently and have had a resurgence in interest aswell. I had a period of watching flat out Capaldi/Coleman eps, and went back to the classic era shortly after you started this thread.

Edited March 22, 2019 by shodgson

[The Friendly Dalek]

17 minutes ago, shodgson said:

Just like to say I enjoy reading this thread, keep it up.

 

The insights you guys give on the episodes are usually spot on with what i'm thinking myself. I must say I have started watching the 60s/70s era recently and have had a resurgence in interest aswell. I had a period of watching flat out Capaldi/Coleman eps, and went back to the classic era shortly after you started this thread.

Glad to hear that you're enjoying it. 

[The Friendly Dalek]

The Waters Of Mars- Now this is much more like it. RTD and Phil Ford crafted one of the most tense, creepy and dark episodes in the history of Doctor Who, and as I'm sure you're aware of by now, I love episodes like that. 

The Flood are so well realised, and they are one of my favourite monsters, despite only having this one appearance. Their appearance is brilliant, and the way they are utilised in this episode makes them frightening at times. This is another episode which I can vividly remember scaring me greatly when I was younger.  I hope that this is a villain which remains as a one-off, because there's no way that any other episode can improve upon this. They are perfect here. 

The supporting characters are very well written, and none of them stand out as underdeveloped. As a result, when they die their deaths are highly impactful and often emotional. Lindsay Duncan is amazing as Adelaide Brooke, who is one of my favourite supporting characters in Doctor Who history. Her story is tragic, and it is so well written and performed. The writing is excellent overall. The use of the fixed point in time concept is put to wonderful use in this story. 

The final 15/20 minutes of this story are easily the best part of an already incredibly episode. That section is some of the best television I have ever seen, even outside of Who. David Tennant gives one of his best performances, and the final scene involving Adelaide is incredibly dark, serious and heart-breaking. The Time Lord Victorious story is so well executed, and I love it. 

Overall- 10/10.

MAJOR SPOILERS FROM HERE

I love the direction in which the Tenth Doctor is taken during this episode. If any Doctor was to snap and go dark like this, I think it mas a stroke of genius to make it the Tenth Doctor. This is because it is such a major extreme from the carefree, cheery Doctor we have seen from tenant up to this point. When the Seventh Doctor hit his darkest moments in The Curse Of Fenric, of course it is shocking to see how far that Doctor was willing was willing to go, but that was built up to be his established character from the very beginning of his second series. With Ten, that same level of gradual character change wasn't present, so this huge change in character is far more shocking to witness. Adelaide's suicide is easily among the darkest things in the show's history in my opinion, made even more tragic by the reason behind why she does it. It is so well written and handled with such sensitivity and drama by the writers, I always end up feeling shocked by it no matter how many times I watch it. That is another reason why I love this episode, no matter how many times I watch it (which is quite often) the intended emotional and dramatic impacts are always felt. 

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

The Waters of Mars - How I wish that all the specials had been of this calibre to give Tennant the send off he deserves. This is a showcase for Tennant's acting. The story is well written and the support cast superb. A very dark, shocking episode but sensitively handled. I love to see a darker side to The Doctor. It's interesting to see how he reacts to what is basically a catastrophic error altering a fixed point in time. Lindsay Duncan does an amazing job. This episode is so good I can even overlook the irritating robot. Excellent lead up to the final episodes.

[The Friendly Dalek]

The End Of Time- Here's the big one. The very last story in the RTD/Tennant era. It is also one of the most frustrating episodes for me personally. It does a lot right, but there are also many problems I have with it. This is going to be very spoiler heavy.

The first part of this story is unbearably dull in my opinion. The second part is an improvement in terms of pacing, but that part has its own problems. The Master is rubbish in this episode in my opinion. This is no fault of John Simm's, it is simply because the character was written to be so crazy and mad in this story that I think the character loses the chilling edge they once had. This is all my opinion of course, but I prefer a more collected Master than a purely insane interpretation like this one. The cliffhanger is one of the worst I've seen in modern Who, it is far too ridiculous for my liking. The Vinvocci are rubbish, and the side plot regarding them is utterly pointless in my opinion, and only serves to drag out an already packed story. 

The supporting characters aren't very interesting in this entire story, but I can forgive it for that because it focuses mainly on the leads, and a finale like this should develop the leads well. David Tennant is brilliant in this story, but I think Bernard Cribbins really steals this one. His performance is so subtle and great, and the scene in which he interacts with The Doctor on the spaceship on part 2 ("You're the most wonderful man and I don't want you to die", that scene) is easily my favourite of the whole story. Both Tennant and Cribbins are at their best there.

Now onto the Time Lords. Timothy Dalton is fantastic as Rassilon, and this is my favourite version of the character I've seen so far. He has such an imposing presence. I do however have some issues with this. This episode finally brings back the Time Lords, but it does absolutely nothing with them. This should have been a huge moment, but the Time Lords end up standing around and talking for a bit, and then they just get sent away again without doing anything. The ending to this episode is highly anticlimactic in my opinion. 

The Tenth Doctor became increasingly vain and arrogant throughout his tenure, so I don't think there was a better possible way for him to go out than in as such a small scale situation as saving Wilf from radiation poisoning by being poisoned in his place. The look on The Doctor's face when he thinks he will survive after defeating the Time Lords, only to realise what Wilf has done, is so expertly handled by Tennant. The following scene is one of David Tennant's finest moments in the role. I think it was a pretty risky move to kill this Doctor off in such a low key way was one that paid off massively, as it allowed for more exploration of this particular Doctor when he decides to die himself rather than leave Wilf to die. 

Although that scene is flawless, the remainder of the episode after that is a hit and miss. It really just consists of The Doctor visiting all of the companions from this era of the show. Whilst it is nice to see all of these characters again, the scenes really do drag on for a good while. 

The regeneration itself isn't one I'm personally very fond of. Throughout this story, The Doctor describes regeneration as if he does actually die, and a completely new person takes his place, which isn't how the other Doctor's saw regeneration, and it is not how I view the process personally. RTD described the regeneration process perfectly in The Parting Of The Ways, so why he decided to describe it like this this time I do not know. This Doctor's last words, whilst being very emotional, sums up the things I do not like about this Doctor. Ten is far too vain and full of himself, so seeing this Doctor going out crying is not a surprise to me at all. If any Doctor was to have a reaction like this to dying, then Ten is definitely the obvious choice. He doesn't go out with dignity, unlike the others. Perhaps it's because he was alone, and didn't have any companions with him, but 8 for example was in the same position and still went out strongly. If you look at it as he was more upset this time because he knew it was his final regeneration, then I accept that, but when this story was written RTD had no idea about the war Doctor, so I don't think that is why Ten reacted the way he did. Whatever the reasoning behind it is, I just don't really like this regeneration. It is suitably emotional but it just doesn't sit well with me.

Overall- 6/10.

Overall rating for the specials- 5/10.

I think a 5 is a fair rating for these. The first two specials are very bland and forgettable, but aren't terrible. The Waters Of Mars is one of my favourite Doctor Who stories ever, so the specials get points for that one alone. The End Of Time is good, but no where near perfect. It's better than the first two, but is leagues below the quality of TWOM. 

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

The End of Time - On the whole I really enjoy this one. However I do have some issues with it - issues big enough for this to be my least favourite regeneration story of the modern era.

Tennant is excellent and throughout the story puts in a strong performance. I'm happy that Cribbins got to be a full time companion again. There are some lovely moments between him and Tennant.

There are also some great scenes between Tennant and Simm. I do feel they manage to capture the complex relationship between The Doctor and The Master.

The story itself isn't bad. I agree that the second episode is stronger. I like the 4 knocks prophecy (the heartbeats of a Time Lord). It was a clever twist to have Wilf knock 4 times near the end. And not unusual for The Doctor to sacrifice himself for a companion so in that respect the Tenth Doctor had a fitting end.

Timothy Dalton is excellent as the Lord President (more on that later). First disagreement in ages - I love the return of the Time Lords in this story and they are used well. If you had not seen Classic Who you would still get the idea they are a powerful, rather arrogant race. To use them more would have been distracting to the regeneration story.

My issues - the bonkers Master. This is no fault of Simm who can only work with the material given. The super powers he was given are stupid. And don't get me started on the Master Race. It's no wonder it took Simm 7 years to recover from this before he would play the part again.

The Time Lord President - I would much rather this character had remained nameless or given a new name. From Classic Who personally I do not feel this is who Rassilon was. I always considered him a more benevolent character and actually find it annoying that his name is used this way.

The regeneration - I like The Doctor sacrificing himself for Wilf. I don't mind him visiting his previous companions. It's the actual regeneration I don't like. Now I know in Whovian terms I am in the minority and most love this regeneration. But yes, The Doctor has always faced his regeneration with dignity and acceptance. Tennant crying "I don't want to go" may move people but by this stage I'm thinking - just go already!

Overall 7/10.

And so ends the RTD era. Definitely more highs than lows. He did a great job bringing Doctor Who back to our screens but I do think the time was right for a change.

[The Friendly Dalek]

I forgot to mention that there are some nice scenes between The Doctor and The Master. I probably forgot about it because I still had a bad taste in my mouth from The Master's superpowers. 

We finally disagreed again, hooray.  It's interesting to see how other people view these things, and I certainly wasn't expecting the usage of the Time Lords to be the thing we disagreed on. 

Regarding Rassilon, of the versions of him we have seen on screen, this one is definitely my favourite. I think he has that strong and imposing presence, so he really feels like someone who you don't want to cross paths with, but I also felt that sense of regality from him, meaning that I could easily picture this character being one of the most prominent figures in Gallifreyan society. Big Finish have recently created their own version of Rassilon as well in their Gallifrey: Time War series, but as I haven't heard any of that series I can't judge that Rassilon alongside this one. It is certainly interesting to know that you thought the character wasn't done justice in this episode. 

I agree that the 4 knocks prophecy was a great idea, and it was a very clever twist to make Wilf the one who fulfilled the prophecy by knocking. 

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

15 hours ago, The Friendly Dalek said:

 

We finally disagreed again, hooray.  

 

 

Realising that you also prefer Capaldi to Smith it will be interesting to see how often this happens in the Moffat era. 

[The Friendly Dalek]

The Eleventh Hour- This is quite possibly the best opening episode the new production team could have had. 

Matt Smith is amazing in this episode, and Steven Moffat's writing is excellent. The whole episode looks gorgeous. Karen Gillan instantly impresses as Amy Pond, and Arthus Darvill is great as Rory. The pacing in this episode is excellent, and the supporting cast are good. It was certainly interesting to see Olivia Coleman in this episode, especially considering her recent Oscar success. Almost everyting about this story is superb.

The negatives are few and far between for me. Some of the effects look a bit dodgy, but my main issue is the villain. Prisoner Zero is a very weak villain in my appearance, and I don't like its design either. The same goes for the Atraxi. I think it looks silly. I get why the monsters take a back seat in this episode, it's due to Moffat spending most of the time introducing the new leads, but upon rewatch the monsters really do stand out as being very bland and forgettable. I'm also not really a fan of the title sequence or the new theme.

Overall- 9/10.

This is a brilliant episode, and is one of the best from this era of the show. Moffat and Smith began their era with a bang. If the monsters were even slightly more interesting then I wouldn't have deducted the point for them, but I do think that they drag this episode down whenever I watch it.

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

The Eleventh Hour - Back to doing what we do best - agreeing with each other.  This is a very strong opening for the Moffat area. I'm glad he focused more on character introductions and writing.  Smith puts in an admirable first performance.  Gillan is great as Amy. The support cast are good. Bit weird seeing Olivia Colman doing next to nothing.  The villains are weak as you say but that's not really a problem in this episode. 

Overall 8/10

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

Nice profile pic  

[The Friendly Dalek]

The Beast Below- Unfortunately this episode is no where near as good as The Eleventh Hour in my opinion. There are some great ideas on display here but the execution once again ruins them. 

The leads are great, especially Smith. He gives performance. Unfortunately the supporting characters don't really work in my opinion. I love Ian McNeice as Churchill, but he doesn't have a very large role at all in this episode, so that doesn't really affect this episode overall. The Winders are interesting visually, but I'm not a fan of what they actually do. This is really Karen Gillan's episode, and her acting and dialogue is wonderful, and the development of her character is great to see. It's just a shame that the side characters aren't interesting in the slightest.

The social commentary regarding how the voting system works in this location, and how people can either protest or forgot about the truth behind the regime they are controlled by, is certainly an interesting concept to explore. However, I don't think this idea was explored to its full potential. This story is a mish-mash of ideas all thrown together to see what works, and as a result I don't think that any of these ideas are explored in a completely satisfying way. The Star Whale idea is easily the most interesting, and I love the moral dilemma it presents for The Doctor. 

Overall- 5/10.

Edited March 26, 2019 by The Friendly Dalek

[wjbleming]

I haven't dropped off from this. I just haven't gotten round to putting my thoughts down on here. I'll have to put some time aside to doing it.

On another note, anyone catch the Easter Egg in The Beast Below? Only noticed it myself when watching it last week!

[The Friendly Dalek]

8 hours ago, wjbleming said:

I haven't dropped off from this. I just haven't gotten round to putting my thoughts down on here. I'll have to put some time aside to doing it.

On another note, anyone catch the Easter Egg in The Beast Below? Only noticed it myself when watching it last week!

I'm not actually sure if I've ever spotted the Easter egg you are referring to, I certainly didn't see it yesterday. 

[wjbleming]

5 minutes ago, The Friendly Dalek said:

I'm not actually sure if I've ever spotted the Easter egg you are referring to, I certainly didn't see it yesterday. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/WkVj28xmATqgbkeW9

 

Hopefully that link works.

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

8 hours ago, wjbleming said:

I haven't dropped off from this. I just haven't gotten round to putting my thoughts down on here. I'll have to put some time aside to doing it.

On another note, anyone catch the Easter Egg in The Beast Below? Only noticed it myself when watching it last week!

Good job I only watched this last weekend.  Presume you are referring to Magpie Electricals! 

 

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

The Beast Below - I'm not a fan of this one. The story is a bit of a mix with plenty of good ideas that don't really form a coherent plot overall.  The voting system is good.  Be very useful for the current Brexit shambles 

The best thing about this episode is the three main characters.  Smith and Okonedo are excellent but I think it's Gillan who shines.

Overall 3/10

[The Friendly Dalek]

27 minutes ago, wjbleming said:

https://images.app.goo.gl/WkVj28xmATqgbkeW9

 

Hopefully that link works.

Yeah it works, thank you, I'm surprised I never noticed that. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by The Friendly Dalek

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

38 minutes ago, wjbleming said:

https://images.app.goo.gl/WkVj28xmATqgbkeW9

 

Hopefully that link works.

Didn't notice you put a link.  That would have saved me a bit of brain power trying to remember the Easter Egg  

[The Friendly Dalek]

Victory Of The Daleks- I think this is one of the most unfairly hated episodes of Doctor Who, and upon rewatching it today I've found that I enjoy it a lot more than I remembered.. 

Matt Smith and Keren Gillan are great. Ian McNeice is brilliant as Churchill. I think the whole cast do a good job. The writing department is what lets this story down in my opinion. Also, a lack of characterisation for most supporting characters, Bracewell was a disappointing character as well. The visuals are great for the most part, as is the music. 

Now, the Daleks themselves. I love how this episode treats them for the most part. Seeing them use their intelligence and act friendly ( which is very reminiscent of The Power Of The Daleks) is great. However, the problem comes with the introduction of the paradigm Daleks. They look ridiculous, and their existence is rather pointless considering the very next Dalek episode reverts them back to their previous design. 

The way this story ends is also very silly. The space spitfires are a daft idea, and the fact that the Daleks end up retreating just makes the ending feel like a major anti-climax to me.

Overall- 7/10.

Edited March 29, 2019 by The Friendly Dalek

[Peter Capaldi Fan]

Victory of the Daleks  - I think this is one of the stronger episodes written by Mark Gatiss but it's by no means perfect. 

I like the concept of having the Daleks during the war as they were supposed to have been based on the Nazis. The first design is great.  But I hate the multi coloured versions.  They look some naff 70's salt and pepper pots.

Smith and Gillan are excellent. I also enjoy both McNeice and Patterson as the main support cast. 

Good story but the ending seems to be rushed and all a little too convenient. I feel there is enough material in this episode for it to be a two parter. 

Definitely an unfairly underrated episode. 

Overall 7/10