Deposit Scheme - Suggestion

[Darkblu3]

I know some of the hotels currently offer a scheme like this for when people are booking their rooms. I wondered if Showmasters would offer something similar with conventions being announced nearly a year before they happen.

 

The way I'd see it would be asking for a non-returnable deposit at half of the ticket cost or even a quarter and then people having to pay the full balance 4 months in advance to give chance for the tickets to be resold if people aren't able to pay the full balance. This would also hopefully give a better forecast of attendees for showmasters.

 

Just wondered what people and showmasters though of such a scheme?

 

EDIT:

The way I could see this working would be through the online store, and I think it would only work for the full conventions, not the events like collectormania/Autographica. Depending on if the store supports having codes or items can be listed for sale without being shown. So come the 4 month time, an email could be sent with a link to the store item for the remaining amount, but this store item wouldn't be visable without that link.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

 

 

Darkblu3

Edited February 13, 2011 by Darkblu3

[TommyT]

It has its merits, but it also has its drawbacks.

For a start, let us assume that most people will opt to pay this way (or even just a simple majority) - that probably means a significant hit to SM/ME's cashflow. Whether that would affect them significantly is another matter, but it may be that they would want to put some sort of disincentive on this - maybe a £5 or £10 charge for people who pay that way? (which in itself would no doubt cause wailing and gnashing of teeth). It also means more admin for SM/ME in that they have two payments to take in for such ticket sales not one; the extra record-keeping isn't too onerous, but it's another set of payments to process (which I'm sure those responsible would rather avoid), and another set of things to go wrong. (The extra admn could in part justify the levying of a £5 or £10 charge).

You would need to get some T&Cs drawn up so that people were quite clear that it was non-refundable, and that there was a deadline for payment of the balance. And are you going to send reminders to those people, or just let them be the authors of their own downfall? Sooner or later somebody won't pay by the deadline because they've forgotten it and the deadline passes whilst they're on holiday, or if they've unexepctedly had to go into hospital. No doubt in many cases this can be sorted out after the deadline, but if it's a sold-out event and you've already sold their ticket for non-payment of the balance, a simple refund of the deposit will seem like scant recompense.

Would somebody who pays by deposit only get preference over somebody who pays full price immediately? Say it's a new event announced for 8 months time, with 150 gold tickets. On the first day 20 people pay full price for gold, and 40 pay deposits. Over the next 2 weeks 20 more people pay full price for gold and 70 more on deposit. Do the gold numbers get allocated in strict sales order (whether full price or deposit), or do the 40 people who've paid upfront get G1-40, and the 110 people who paid on deposit follow after - and do they follow on in order they pay their deposit, or in order that they pay off their balance? Whatever your answer, you know some people will feel unhappy about it.

I think your suggestion might also need some development work on the shop website. Don't know if they would want to go down that path.

 

Personally I'm not fussed either way, but just thought I'd throw up a strawman against it for people to consider. I don't think anything I've raised is an outright showstopper, but I could see enough problems for it to perhaps be felt too tricky.

[Darkblu3]

In terms of the cashflow, personally I think it could be the opposite of that, rather than it being a hit to the cashflow it would mean that it was more equally spread throughout the year and may give showmasters a stronger ability to forecast how much funds they'd be able to spend on guests etc.

 

In terms of the extra payment to process, I don't know how this works for showmasters but from what I've seen at customer side is it not mostly automated for the convention tickets?

 

Ticket Allocation - I'd see no reason why the deposits or those who pay in full should have any preference over each other. Both would have clearly stated an intention to buy a full ticket by either paying in full or paying the non-refundable deposit. I'd say for these just to be allocated in the order they came in.

 

Reminders - This is something which could require some work from the shop or on the shop as I'm not sure how powerful it is, but if possible I would suggest that (as an example) a report was generated of those who've paid for the ticket deposit and then they're emailed 3 weeks before the deadline with a link to pay the reminder. At 2 days before the deadline these people are sent a final reminder with a caveat on the bottom saying "thanks if you've already paid, please ignore this if you have" or similar. Then if they miss the payment deadline the tickets are re-added to the pool of those on sale for the remaining x amount of time until the event and those that haven't paid lose their deposit.

 

I think if the shop is primarily done manually at the moment then processes would need to be generated and put into place to log certain details of the orders as they come in, but to me the only additional workload would be the reminder email and potentially an increase in payments to process.

 

I just wanted to say as well that I don't think it would be right to penalise people for booking this way to the extent which you're sayiong as £5/£10 seems a lot for processing. I think if they did need to go down this route then the max charge that people wouldn't potentially balk at would be in the region of £3-£4.

 

Just wanted to answer some of your points.

[TommyT]

In terms of the extra payment to process, I don't know how this works for showmasters but from what I've seen at customer side is it not mostly automated for the convention tickets?

The impression I get from numerous posts is that sales through the shop are not automated; all the shop provides is a data-logging system, and the actual physical card transactions are processed by hand - hence people being told that their order will go through in the next few days at busy periods, because they can't all be done at once.

Suppose you have 9 conventions a year (that was what was scheduled for this year, although there may be other slipped in late in the year, I guess), each with 400 tickets being sold this way. That's 3600 tickets which now have two transactions rather than one. That's an extra 300 transactions a month, every month, to process. I don't know how time-consuming it is, but I would imagine it involves entering at least the 16 digit card number, a digit expiry date and the three digit security code, each time. Possibly a cross-reference to billing address too. Plus updating your own records. That strikes me as hours of extra work per month.

[Queen_Sindel]

The impression I get from numerous posts is that sales through the shop are not automated; all the shop provides is a data-logging system, and the actual physical card transactions are processed by hand - hence people being told that their order will go through in the next few days at busy periods, because they can't all be done at once.

 

Your impression is correct, the charges are processed manually.

I'm not even sure if the current store software would allow automatic processing.

 

Ticket Allocation - I'd see no reason why the deposits or those who pay in full should have any preference over each other. Both would have clearly stated an intention to buy a full ticket by either paying in full or paying the non-refundable deposit. I'd say for these just to be allocated in the order they came in.

 

There is a huge difference in my eyes.

 

The full payment people definitely commit to come, or they risk 88 pounds or whatever amount the ticket they want costs. They give SM/ME the full money to work with right away. The downpayment attendees don't. So SM/ME do have less money to work with from the start. It surely would make some attendees book extra that normally wouldn't book, but I am not sure if that would come up to the same amount overall.

 

The bigger part of the problem I see is this: you can't count on everyone paying up. From previous experience I am quite sure a lot of fans would only make the downpayment to have a low numbered ticket secure. But if the full payment date comes and no guests are announced that they like they will just default the non refundable payment.

 

Or imagine SM doing this and the big headline guest that is pretty much irreplaceable (think John Barrowman, Richard Dean Anderson or the brothers from SPN) cancels before full payment was due. There'd be an insane amount of people just giving up the deposit too.

 

Apart from the money problem, if you'd just go "first come first served" regardless if deposit paid or full amount paid there'd be a lot of additional paperwork looming when they have to take out non-payers.

[adriangill]

Ignoring the extra workload (I am currently picturing Yvie exchanging her Ma'Tok for a Bat'leth), yes some attendees who currently wait a while before purchasing may opt for a deposit option. However there is a good chance that a lot more people who currently buy their tickets quicker will also opt for the deposit option. It will result in a loss of funding.

 

To expand on the headliner theme mentioned by QS , everyone has their favourite guests so if they aren't announced there is potentially even more people that are likely to just write off their deposit if they are not happy with the final lineup.

 

That would be a huge risk for ME to undertake - booking a full guest lineup on the assumption that all of the people who have paid deposits will pay the final amount.

 

As for who would get priority - a day one deposit or a 2nd week full payment, Tommy is correct, whichever way you go the 'other side' would be less than impressed. Personally I would allocate a full payment over a deposit regardless of timing. I can understand the other viewpoint though.

 

It's good to suggest ideas and I can see why this works for hotels/etc. I just can't see it as being practical for this type of event. There are too many variables and risks involved.

 

Edit: Just realised that I all I have done is restate what Queen Sindel has said but not as well

Edited February 14, 2011 by 1of2

[TerraHawk]

You could get everyone book gold on the off chance, then when push comes to shove write that off and go standard. It stops anyone else who wants gold getting it.

 

Also a bit of a headache when it comes to refunding for cancelled events.

 

Hotels are different, at worst the deposit pays for the overheads. And always the chance they can sell the room again.

Edited February 14, 2011 by TerraHawk

[Yvie]

In terms of the extra payment to process, I don't know how this works for showmasters but from what I've seen at customer side is it not mostly automated for the convention tickets?

Ha! I wish!

I suppose I should take that as a compliment, if it looks automated then I'm obviously doing it right!

 

 

I don't think a deposit scheme is a good idea. I answer the shop emails as well as dealing with the orders and I'm well aware of the tricks some people try to pull, it's a sad fact of life that there will always be the unscrupulous so-and-so who spoils it for everyone else. From personal experience I can assure you that the system would be abused from Day One and there will ALWAYS be a small group of people who think they should be exempt from the rules.

 

Hypothetically, I weigh in on the side of 'fully paid orders trump deposit only,' no matter when the orders were placed. If you're that bothered about your ticket number you should put your money where your mouth is and properly support the event. I would also argue that when a specific group of tickets sold out, anyone on deposit for those tickets should pay up or back off to allow more serious punters to attend.

 

Suppose you have 9 conventions a year (that was what was scheduled for this year, although there may be other slipped in late in the year, I guess), each with 400 tickets being sold this way. That's 3600 tickets which now have two transactions rather than one. That's an extra 300 transactions a month, every month, to process. I don't know how time-consuming it is, but I would imagine it involves entering at least the 16 digit card number, a digit expiry date and the three digit security code, each time. Possibly a cross-reference to billing address too. Plus updating your own records. That strikes me as hours of extra work per month.

My life just flashed before my eyes. Please don't put it in numbers like that again, it's terrifying!!!

Edited February 14, 2011 by Yvie

[TommyT]

The full payment people definitely commit to come, or they risk 88 pounds or whatever amount the ticket they want costs. They give SM/ME the full money to work with right away. The downpayment attendees don't. So SM/ME do have less money to work with from the start.

The "halfway house" option would be to give the full-payers some priority - e.g. each week runs from the very start of Monday to midnight on Sunday. Everybody who pays full price that week gets tickets in their order of purchase, amd then everybody who pays deposits that week follows on behind in the numbering. Those that pay full amount the next week follow on behind them etc. Completely arbitrary, and no doubt unfair to somebody, somewhere (at least in their opinion), but it does meet people halfway. Also totally hypothetical, as I can't see a deposit system really working.

Or imagine SM doing this and the big headline guest that is pretty much irreplaceable (think John Barrowman, Richard Dean Anderson or the brothers from SPN) cancels before full payment was due. There'd be an insane amount of people just giving up the deposit too.

You could get everyone book gold on the off chance, then when push comes to shove write that off and go standard. It stops anyone else who wants gold getting it.

Those considerations would have to mean that the deposit would have to be 50% of the full price. At that level, writing off the deposit for a silver, just to buy a standard would be uneconomic, and writing off a gold deposit just to buy a standard wouldn't really be worth it, when you factored in a couple of photoshoots and a glug or two of wine. And if you've committed 50% to the "pot" already, that's a fair incentive to pay the other half, and at least a decent sum for ME if you don't.

And could you imagine the squeals of outrage from people if a big headliner cancelled or people didn't like the line-up and just let their deposit lapse.... the ME announced somebody huge two weeks later. "No, you can't have your deposit reinstated! You've lost it. If you want to buy a ticket now, you have to pay the full price."

 

I would also argue that when a specific group of tickets sold out, anyone on deposit for those tickets should pay up or back off

Nice idea. The only downside is I could see in some cases that could happen after a week or two or even a few days, which means extra transactions for you to process when you're already busy. (Although theoretically ME could avoid that by declining to operate the deposit system for certain events or tickets - e.g. no deposits on golds for ET, or an event if someone like RDA is attending).

My life just flashed before my eyes. Please don't put it in numbers like that again, it's terrifying!!!

I'm sorry. Pour yourself a stiff drink. Sit down. Think happy thoughts.

[etmuse]

IF it were to happen (which I don't see, really, as some people would no doubt try to fiddle the system - ruining it for everyone else - and the amount of work for poor Yvie is ridiculous) I'd run the ticket numbers on order-of-paying-off-full-balance. So someone who paid a deposit in week 1 then paid off in full in week 3 would get a higher number than someone paying in full in week 2, but a lower number than someone paying in full in week 4.

[dragonsanddaffodils]

Just sounds like a nightmare for Yvie

[Yvie]

My Facebook deleting has caught up with me over here too

 

 

I already answer the emails and queries for free, I'm not doing this too

[dragonsanddaffodils]

lol