Oversubscribed Photo Sessions?

[Kookie22]

Bummer to the forum problems, i've only just figured out how to get back into some topics.

 

 

I can't see malcolm sending the raw file to people, as that would make it unfair as those people would be able to print as many photos as they like etc. And would also incur more cost (average 6x9 price prob about 2 quid? dunno, im a bit out of touch now) And would also mean that the photos that have already been printed would be wasted and get chucked away or something.

 

i think the outrage on the forum could have been alot worse to be honest. Based on what i was hearing from the people around me when i was waiting for my photo. perhaps those people arent on this forum? i dont know. I myself have wanted to be so vocal in this topic because as a previous manager of a photo shop, i feel i might understand where the problems were and am pretty angry that the shop could get it so wrong. It's b e nice for one of the employees to explain.

 

but i guess you can't change things now, its all in the past. it's also clear that SM/Malcolm learnt from the problems saturday and the following photo shoots ran alot smoother. you can't ask for much more than that.

[KB]

Dude, there's no need to make this personal, calling someone an Idiot is not cool.

 

Some people are evidently frustrated by the same people coming on here to blame Showmasters for stuff that (a.) they weren't actually affected by, and (b.) they have no knowledge of the procedures behind. So yeah, some people may get annoyed unnecessarily, especially when there are genuine concerns raised by others. So don't take it personally.

 

Those involved around the photo shoot areas are trying to explain the situation as much as possible, but that's still not going to be enough for some most of us know who they are though, so don't worry, not everyone with complaints about the photo sessions is shoved into an 'idiot' category.

 

BTW - Is anyone else having major problems with getting onto the forum itself? I can only seem to access the most recent thread and even that's touch and go.

 

Yes, there's major issues on here unfortunately, especially this and another couple of sections.

 

yeah, the forum is being a pain again.

 

Like DavidB says, i wasn't getting at everyone who has posted in here. Not at all, and i think people's views should be voiced, however, i am sticking by what i said.

 

The comment about lying to cause themselves trouble is ridiculous.

 

Personally, i think to buy a machine capable of doing the job themselves wouldn't be viable. I'm sure they would run into the high thousands for a good enough machine, and if i was spending that sort of money, i wouldn't want to be lugging it all over the country. Chances are it'd get damaged somehow. But i do see your point behind it. The photo companies that use these use them everyday to make them worth paying for, but showmasters would only have a use for it 4 or 5 times a year.

[Kookie22]

Dude, there's no need to make this personal, calling someone an Idiot is not cool.

 

Some people are evidently frustrated by the same people coming on here to blame Showmasters for stuff that (a.) they weren't actually affected by, and (b.) they have no knowledge of the procedures behind. So yeah, some people may get annoyed unnecessarily, especially when there are genuine concerns raised by others. So don't take it personally.

 

Those involved around the photo shoot areas are trying to explain the situation as much as possible, but that's still not going to be enough for some most of us know who they are though, so don't worry, not everyone with complaints about the photo sessions is shoved into an 'idiot' category.

 

BTW - Is anyone else having major problems with getting onto the forum itself? I can only seem to access the most recent thread and even that's touch and go.

 

Yes, there's major issues on here unfortunately, especially this and another couple of sections.

 

yeah, the forum is being a pain again.

 

Like DavidB says, i wasn't getting at everyone who has posted in here. Not at all, and i think people's views should be voiced, however, i am sticking by what i said.

 

The comment about lying to cause themselves trouble is ridiculous.

 

Personally, i think to buy a machine capable of doing the job themselves wouldn't be viable. I'm sure they would run into the high thousands for a good enough machine, and if i was spending that sort of money, i wouldn't want to be lugging it all over the country. Chances are it'd get damaged somehow. But i do see your point behind it. The photo companies that use these use them everyday to make them worth paying for, but showmasters would only have a use for it 4 or 5 times a year.

 

yep. and from cold the photo machines take hours to get up to temperature and that could cause more problems in getting them set up and where to put them. be nice though! to buy they cost well over £250k, to lease, dunno if thats even possible.

 

Stick with how things went on the sunday and perhaps all will work well

[oldnick]

Oldnick, you've clearly stated how the situation was managed after it was allowed to happen, which is all very well except you haven't addressed the fundamental issue of why the situation was allowed to, excuse the pun, develop in the first place.

 

I doubt an arrangement between Showmasters and Happy Snaps would've been agreed without Happy Snaps being told how many photos they would've been expected to develop within a certain time frame.

 

Given the complaints about the huge lengths of both the queues and waiting time for the most popular shoots, is it too much to postulate the theory that Showmasters misled Happy Snaps, deliberately or otherwise about the amount of developing which would have to be done?

 

You don't suddenly find you've oversold your photoshoots by, for the sake of arguement, 500 tickets without either some serious mismanagement or having done it deliberately.

 

I was only involved in the process after it went wrong - as one of the crew drafted in to sort out the problem. I can therefore only answer definitively for that period. I've tried to do so openly on the areas where I know what happened.

 

As to what happened before. I have no idea what was said in negotiations with the developer, but as been pointed out in other replies it was in no one's interests for Showmasters to mislead the developer. If anything, they would gain by overstating the expected demand, both to make sure the developer could cope, and to get the best price per shot.

 

One sold-out session, and the rest busy, but not sold out does not make serious mismanagement. It makes one relieved that the rest weren't sold out as well.

 

I'm sorry - but conspiracies about Showmasters plotting to make the photoshoot go wrong just make no sense. The simple problem was the, for whatever reason, the developer failed to deliver what had been agreed.

Edited May 10, 2007 by oldnick

[zebredy]

I'd just like to see showmasters do some photo shoots with guests they think arn't going to be as popular as James Marsters was.

 

Ok they might not make as much money but maybe they could get more guests in overall to do photos with, if they were less popular guests, and please more people overall?

 

I've been to many events that do photos with and so far 'from what I can see' showmasters only do photos with, with the most popular guest to get the most of that, (please correct me if Im wrong) i.e. more people like the guest in question then more people are likly to want a photoshoot with them therefore showmasters would get more money in the long run.

 

I've never been to another event where they have had problems like I am hearing on here and they ALL use there own printers (well the ones I've been to do and some also have 'photos with' with the less popular guests at the show) and from what I could see they really didn't look like they cost much more then £1000 (please correct me if wrong.)

 

The amount of stuff showmasters has to cart to these events, one or two extra items like a printer isn't going to make that much difference is it?

 

Regardless of the problems some people found with having there photos with, done last weekend, as Im quite often not there for the major guests, its most likly I wont be having a 'photo with' at a showmasters event, any time soon...

 

 

 

 

 

 

LLAP

Edited May 10, 2007 by zebredy

[oldnick]

I'd just like to see showmasters do some photo shoots with guests they think arn't going to be as popular as James Marsters was.

 

Ok they might not make as much money but maybe they could get more guests in overall to do photos with, if they were less popular guests, and please more people overall?

 

I've been to many events that do photos with and so far 'from what I can see' showmasters only do photos with, with the most popular guest to get the most of that, (please correct me if Im wrong) i.e. more people like the guest in question then more people are likly to want a photoshoot with them therefore showmasters would get more money in the long run.

 

I've never been to another event where they have had problems like I am hearing on here and they ALL use there own printers (well the ones I've been to do and some also have 'photos with' with the less popular guests at the show) and from what I could see they really didn't look like they cost much more then £1000 (please correct me if wrong.)

 

The amount of stuff showmasters has to cart to these events, one or two extra items like a printer isn't going to make that much difference is it?

 

Regardless of the problems some people found with having there photos with, done last weekend, as Im quite often not there for the major guests, its most likly I wont be having a 'photo with' at a showmasters event, any time soon...

 

 

 

 

 

 

LLAP

 

That's an interesting idea - I can see some of the less major guests being very popular for photoshoots because they have such a good reputation as guests. They'd also have the advantage of it having less of an impact ontheir signing if they spent half-an-hour away from their desk.

 

The idea of using other printers was discussed while we were sitting waiting for the last batches of photographs. The key concern was with durability of the prints produced by the lower priced (and we're talking lower-priced commercial, not domestic) printers. Some used elsewhere are known to fade at about 4-years.

 

As to the amount of kit - as one of the poor fools who helped load the van post-event, anything you can suggest to reduce, rather than increase, the volume of kit carried would be welcomed. The suggestion of fitting the Tardis to the back of the van to increase capacity didn't help. ;-)

[Kookie22]

Correct me if im wrong, but isnt James the only shoot that's ever sold out? hmm maybe elijah wood. I dont think a shoot with avery brooks or peter davidson or even terry jones is *that* high profile. At some point they have to way up the cost effectiveness of laying on shoots with smaller guests - they're pritning tickets, malcolms time, the guests time etc - so unfort. it just might not be possible with less popular guests.

 

{edit} though after reading the post above - maybe some guests would be decieving popular - ill be selfish and say iyari limon -cost effectiveness might be a big part though{edit{

 

what type of photos did you get from these other events. were they on 'photo paper' or were they proper photographic process paper, that has to go through chemicals? these machines are large, and have to big filled with chemicals aren't the sort of things which cope well with being carted about the place. They also arrive in either seperate parts which have to be put together or in a large bulk. Chemicals also have to be mixed and things calibrated if they've been jolted about in a journey, and this has to be done by engineers of the compnay, or by experienced shop staff. I am only basing the cost i mentioned on the cost of the new machine that was installed at the shop where i used to work. Im sure you can pick up a printer along the lines of a kodak picture maker for less than that, but as i mentioned these prints are far inferior in quality and durabilty and i personally would not have a shoot if thats the kind of photo i'd get back. and i think others agree.

 

i think it was safe to say that things went better on the sunday and therefore come c12 - they'll have a better idea of how to make things run smoother than the saturday and mroe like the sunday.

Edited May 10, 2007 by Kookie22

[DavidB]

I suppose one key thing to say is that there haven't ALWAYS been photo shoots at Showmasters events, and I suppose in the bigger picture they're still relatively new(ish) at doing them and they're still learning at every event (and not just about photo shoots!). No doubt everything suggested will be taken on board and considered, but in the end they'll do what they believe works best.

[zebredy]

Oh yes as my fiance just reminded me of this..

 

I know not all guest like you to take a photo of them when you go up to there table for an auto, but....

 

When my fiance and I went to see Rene Auberjonois, he allowed us to have a photo taken with him, he seemed quite relaxed as he had been sitting down for a while. He also had time to have a chat with us about a few things and it was really nice to talk to him. To me it seemed less formal then having to pay for a 'photo with' ticket just to have a photo taken with him, with loads of other people wating in a queue to have a photo taken with him aswell.

 

We then took another VQ ticket each as we left the queue, went to boots, got the photo in question printed for less them £1 in less then 5mins (as we used a digital camera to take the pic) then after waiting 45mins to 1hr for our turn to get back in the queue to see him, we then went up to him and for £15 we had our photo personalised by him.

 

Ok so yes as I said before all guests at there tables are different and some don't like photos of them while there sitting taken, and it wasn't taken by a professional, but...

 

For less the £16 we got what I think is a really really good photo of myself, my fiance and Rene together, signed and is something I personally will treasure more then having to buy a 'photo with' ticket just to see him for a very short time before someone else goest up to have there photo taken with him.

 

 

But each person is different and some people prefer a photo taken by a proffesional, I just think if Showmasters are charging £15-20, (with some other events charging less then that and the photo in some cases comes back sgned as well) which even though its done by a professional who I assume they pay for there services, then surly they can afford to get the printing situation properly sorted by next time, without having to cut the number of people who have the chance to get a 'photo with' done or invest in there own printer?

 

What do you think, do you prefer getting 'photo with' ticket to have a photo with a guest, or does it not matter to you weather you get a photo with your guest taken while in ther autograph queue?

 

And do you think showmasters need to invest in a printer themselves regardless of weather its a really really really expensive one....

 

 

 

 

 

 

LLAP

[Kookie22]

Oh yes as my fiance just reminded me of this..

 

I know not all guest like you to take a photo of them when you go up to there table for an auto, but....

 

When my fiance and I went to see Rene Auberjonois, he allowed us to have a photo taken with him, he seemed quite relaxed as he had been sitting down for a while. He also had time to have a chat with us about a few things and it was really nice to talk to him. To me it seemed less formal then having to pay for a 'photo with' ticket just to have a photo taken with him, with loads of other people wating in a queue to have a photo taken with him aswell.

 

We then took another VQ ticket each as we left the queue, went to boots, got the photo in question printed for less them £1 in less then 5mins (as we used a digital camera to take the pic) then after waiting 45mins to 1hr for our turn to get back in the queue to see him, we then went up to him and for £15 we had our photo personalised by him.

 

Ok so yes as I said before all guests at there tables are different and some don't like photos of them while there sitting taken, and it wasn't taken by a professional, but...

 

For less the £16 we got what I think is a really really good photo of myself, my fiance and Rene together, signed and is something I personally will treasure more then having to buy a 'photo with' ticket just to see him for a very short time before someone else goest up to have there photo taken with him.

 

 

But each person is different and some people prefer a photo taken by a proffesional, I just think if Showmasters are charging £15-20, (with some other events charging less then that and the photo in some cases comes back sgned as well) which even though its done by a professional who I assume they pay for there services, then surly they can afford to get the printing situation properly sorted by next time, without having to cut the number of people who have the chance to get a 'photo with' done or invest in there own printer?

 

What do you think, do you prefer getting 'photo with' ticket to have a photo with a guest, or does it not matter to you weather you get a photo with your guest taken while in ther autograph queue?

 

And do you think showmasters need to invest in a printer themselves regardless of weather its a really really really expensive one....

 

 

A 'photo with' and a photo at the table both have pro's and cons for me - i dont have a real preference.

 

I dont think SM could seriously afford to buy a printer capable of producing the results (quality wise, not ness time wise) of a commercial photo graphic printer.

 

it would be great if they did invest in it - but i dont think its possible or viable due to the cost, up keep, transportation and running costs of it.

 

As DavidB said, they will no doubt look at the suggestions made on this site into how things went wrong and decide on the best possible all round solution.

 

it wouldnt bother me if we never had photo shoots ever again. but its nice to have the option. but also if they did photo shoots using photo 'printers' i wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

 

and bottom line - aint nothing gonna please everyone..........

Edited May 10, 2007 by Kookie22

[zebredy]

Correct me if im wrong, but isnt James the only shoot that's ever sold out? hmm maybe elijah wood. I dont think a shoot with avery brooks or peter davidson or even terry jones is *that* high profile. At some point they have to way up the cost effectiveness of laying on shoots with smaller guests - they're pritning tickets, malcolms time, the guests time etc - so unfort. it just might not be possible with less popular guests.

 

{edit} though after reading the post above - maybe some guests would be decieving popular - ill be selfish and say iyari limon -cost effectiveness might be a big part though{edit{

 

what type of photos did you get from these other events. were they on 'photo paper' or were they proper photographic process paper, that has to go through chemicals? these machines are large, and have to big filled with chemicals aren't the sort of things which cope well with being carted about the place. They also arrive in either seperate parts which have to be put together or in a large bulk. Chemicals also have to be mixed and things calibrated if they've been jolted about in a journey, and this has to be done by engineers of the compnay, or by experienced shop staff. I am only basing the cost i mentioned on the cost of the new machine that was installed at the shop where i used to work. Im sure you can pick up a printer along the lines of a kodak picture maker for less than that, but as i mentioned these prints are far inferior in quality and durabilty and i personally would not have a shoot if thats the kind of photo i'd get back. and i think others agree.

 

i think it was safe to say that things went better on the sunday and therefore come c12 - they'll have a better idea of how to make things run smoother than the saturday and mroe like the sunday.

 

No the printers in question were not like the ones your going on about. I have done photography courses in the past and have also worked for Jessops for a time, but that in no way makes me an expert on the subject.

 

If the pictures are put in a frame and hung on the wall, in many cases unless your a professional you won't always notice much difference between the photos taken. For example I have some photos I took with my fiances digtal camera (its not a digital SLR or anything like that) and I have some profesionaly taken pics from events (not the ones I mentioned above) and frackly in most cases I don't notice the difference in quality.

 

Granted I try to use the best paper I can afford, but all Im saying is (though the way there doing it may work for them) showmasters do not really need to spend way over the top to have decent photos printed from a portable printer of there own, though I personally (no offence) would not invest in a kodak printer like you mentioned above...

 

Just my 2pense on the subect...

 

 

 

 

 

 

LLAP

[Kookie22]

Correct me if im wrong, but isnt James the only shoot that's ever sold out? hmm maybe elijah wood. I dont think a shoot with avery brooks or peter davidson or even terry jones is *that* high profile. At some point they have to way up the cost effectiveness of laying on shoots with smaller guests - they're pritning tickets, malcolms time, the guests time etc - so unfort. it just might not be possible with less popular guests.

 

{edit} though after reading the post above - maybe some guests would be decieving popular - ill be selfish and say iyari limon -cost effectiveness might be a big part though{edit{

 

what type of photos did you get from these other events. were they on 'photo paper' or were they proper photographic process paper, that has to go through chemicals? these machines are large, and have to big filled with chemicals aren't the sort of things which cope well with being carted about the place. They also arrive in either seperate parts which have to be put together or in a large bulk. Chemicals also have to be mixed and things calibrated if they've been jolted about in a journey, and this has to be done by engineers of the compnay, or by experienced shop staff. I am only basing the cost i mentioned on the cost of the new machine that was installed at the shop where i used to work. Im sure you can pick up a printer along the lines of a kodak picture maker for less than that, but as i mentioned these prints are far inferior in quality and durabilty and i personally would not have a shoot if thats the kind of photo i'd get back. and i think others agree.

 

i think it was safe to say that things went better on the sunday and therefore come c12 - they'll have a better idea of how to make things run smoother than the saturday and mroe like the sunday.

 

No the printers in question were not like the ones your going on about. I have done photography courses in the past and have also worked for Jessops for a time, but that in no way makes me an expert on the subject.

 

If the pictures are put in a frame and hung on the wall, in many cases unless your a professional you won't always notice much difference between the photos taken. For example I have some photos I took with my fiances digtal camera (its not a digital SLR or anything like that) and I have some profesionaly taken pics from events (not the ones I mentioned above) and frackly in most cases I don't notice the difference in quality.

 

Granted I try to use the best paper I can afford, but all Im saying is (though the way there doing it may work for them) showmasters do not really need to spend way over the top to have decent photos printed from a portable printer of there own, though I personally (no offence) would not invest in a kodak printer like you mentioned above...

 

Just my 2pense on the subect...

 

 

LLAP

 

 

oh!! no where in that post was i suggesting that i'd want a kodak photo printer! i was saying that these kind of things would be in a lesser price range, but that they'd be s*** and wouldnt suggest them.

 

I wasnt so much talking about the quality of the photographer, or the quality of the camera used. I am talking about the quality and durability of photographic process paper as opposed to anything else. i dont think using a photo printer would give off a very professional impression, im not sure the photographer would be happy with it either.

 

however - AS sunday ran smoother i dont think they need to look into this with teh same urgency as if sunday had gone like saturday.

 

You;re right, maybe unless you're a pro you won't notice the difference. but i am not a pro but any means, but i am just picky about how i get my photos printed. many people are happy to print them at home, but i have never been and probably never will do. I always print mine using photobox.com (and previously where i used to work). if you've worked in jessops im sure you understand how superior photographs from processors are, and also how much snappy snaps were the root of the probem and how it could have been avoided by preparation and knowing the capbilites of their machine.

Edited May 10, 2007 by Kookie22

[vader252]

I must say this is my third event ,and i had a great time.

 

The photoshoots were a pain.I came all the way from Scotland travelling down thursday night over night.Remaining awake all day friday.In bed at 9.30pm that night ( How Sad is that )Refreshed on Saturday and ready for a great day.I had photos with James , Anthony, ( Both of wich i got back ) Also Charisma and Avery which were batches 26 & 39 so i await there delivery by post.We had to travel back to Scotland on Saturday night so could not wait.The day was great but i agree that perhaps to have to venues for photoshoots would be beter as if one guy is really busy ie Brandon.Then the people waiting for avery were almost I Hour late before even starting.This could have been avoided.The showmasters staff were great in dealing with peoeples disapointment and frustrations.The issue of photoshoots will im sure be discussed in detail post event.

 

Almost 1 week on from my trip to Milton Keynes i have to say my memory is more of a fantastic couple of days ,meeting some great people .I am trying to forget about the queueing

[TommyT]

It wasn;t a surprise that it was such a high number of photos, although was the reason Brandon Routh photo shoot never sold out because so many extra tickets were sold? I think its been mentioned before that there appeared to be at least 600 people in the queue for brandon routh photo shoot (I think someone counted).

The whole suggestion that more than 400 tickets were sold for the photoshoot seems to be based on the fact that a couple of people have said that it looked like there were a lot of people in the queue, and one person suggested 600. Nobody has actually said that there were that many people actually counted. I believe somebody involved (Jola?) has actually confirmed that only 400 tickets were sold. I would also point out a couple of other things:

* given a fair number of people were attending with friends, parents, other halves etc, some of whom may not have been getting a picture done, it is entirely possible that there were a significant number of people hanging around the photoshoot area who didn't have a ticket, but were accompanying people who did.

* estimating crowd size is quite tricky once you get over a couple of hundred; it's certainly easy to overestimate. I used to work with a guy who had about 20 years experience of it, and it amazed me and my colleagues how his estimate would often be significantly different from (and lower than) ours. And a heck of a sight more accurate as it almost always turned out.

[hells childe 17]

The photographer did a great job IMO. I originally had 6 photo tickets for both of James's sessions and ended up with 16 photos in total, portrait and head shots.

And my Tony Head one was great too. I didn't pick up my Saturday ones until Sunday, but that was mine and no-one else's fault. Although i'd heard from a few friends that my pics were on display at the table !!!! I got my Sunday ones back at about 4pm.

 

[Kookie22]

6 tickets???? my god why?

[rainbowsparkle]

I got my pic with James back in plenty of time on the Sunday. I was a bit horrified at the "in your face-ness" of it though, it's very close-up lol, but a good photo.

 

Malcolm the photographer's a lovely chap - he was very friendly at the party on Sunday night, when I asked him if there was any chance that the photo had been cropped and there was actually a bodyshot hanging around somewhere with proof that James had actually hugged me lol. Unfortunately there isn't so I have no proof never mind...I have my memories lol