Moderators DavidB Posted February 16, 2010 Moderators Share Posted February 16, 2010 EPISODE 4 The Substitute Notes: No pre-airing spoilers. Once the episode has aired in the US then all discussion about the episode is fine. Also no discussion of any 'next time on..' parts please, as many people don't watch them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Parkers-Girl Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Think that ep needs a re-watch to make sense of it...it was a bit like last week nothing major happened but im sure it will all be important later... I will await other reviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted February 18, 2010 Author Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2010 I felt a lot more happened this week than last. I did like last weeks but it didn't move things along that much. I love Richard's fear. We don't get to see that, so it just gives Smokey that extra dimension. I also loved the first-person Smokey view .. that was fun I was half urging Richard to go with him so that we could get answers, but nothing is ever that easy The Locke stuff was back to being fascinating and reminded me why I loved the character so much when the show started. Yes, I may have gotten sidetracked by Mr Linus, but Locke was always up there. So to see him still in a wheelchair, albeit this time with Helen and apparently still a relationship with his dad .. I really enjoyed all that. And of course, him crossing paths with Rose (who has come to terms with her cancer), Hugo and Mr Linus (as a teacher! School would've been way better if he'd been my teacher!) .. you just get this feeling of 'destiny' and how all these people are intertwined regardless. We are getting to see the wider picture though, and how not ALL off-island changes are good i.e. cancer, paralysis. However, arguably they're coping with them better this time. I think they might be suffering a bit from juggling everyone again, as we go back and forth between the different people on the island AND the flash-whatever-they-ares. But I guess I'm used to that now. Ben's line at the grave Frank! "This is the weirdest damn funeral I've ever been to" .. short but genius. Random young boy in the jungle .. Jacob? Aaron? Other? and why did Sawyer see him? Sawyer, again, is back to the character that is intriguing and mysterious. Even though we know him far better now, it's hard to know what he's actually up to. It's completely understandable if he did want to get off the island, but you do expect him to be screwing with Smokey a bit. Seeing how smart he was with "Locke" was exactly what he'd be like - after all, a conman has to be clever. So maybe this is just another con? Could've done without the slightly iffy background to the 'cave' scene - maybe they're saving the budget for the finale? I hope so! The black rock/white rock motif was cool. And that list .. well, I don't have a clue. I don't think Kate was mentioned was she? I can't quite remember. Is Shephard really Jack or his dad? Are they all male left? If Kwon is Jin then yes. I did like them showing all the Jacob bits again, as it plays up the importance of his visits. Why is Smokey trapped? (both on the island, and now in Locke) and why does he need someone to come with him? As for "the substitute" .. you have to feel it has a far greater meaning than just Locke's temporary job .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Parkers-Girl Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Nope Kate wasnt mentioned, and all their numbers relate to 'the numbers' 4-Locke, 8-Reyes, 15-Ford, 16-Jarrah, 23-Shephard, 42-Kwon again bringing back them importance of the numbers :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambourne Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Here's a list of all the names that have been spotted so far (crossed out and not crossed out): 4 - Locke (John) 8 - Reyes (Hurley) 10 - Mattingley - Other 15 - Ford (James) 16 - Jarrah (Sayid) 23 - Shephard (Jack) 31 - Rutherford (Shannon) 42 - Kwon (Jin or Sun) 56 - Burke - (Juliet) 64 - Goodspeed (Horace, Ethan) 70 - Faraday (Daniel) 73 - Costa - ? 90 - Troupe - (Guy who blew up in the engine in the Pilot) 115 - Bargas - ? 117 - Linus (Ben, Roger) 119 - Almeida - ? 142 - Lewis (Charlotte) 171 - Straume (Miles) 195 - Pace (Charlie) 222 - O'Toole - U.S. Military 233 - Jones - U.S. Military 291 - Domingo - U.S. Military 313 - Littleton (Claire or Aaron) 317 - Cunningham - U.S. Military 337 - Martin (Karl) - Other 346 - Grant - U.S. Military Partial 20 - Rous (Possibly Rousseau) 25 - ___ 30 - ___ 33 - ___ 49 - Cha (Possibly Chang) 62 - ___ 251 - ___ 260 - ___ 272 - ___ 285 - Jen (Possibly Jenkins) 330 - ___ __ - Reynolds __ - Sullivan __ - Lacombe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dufresne Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 73 - Costa - ? 119 - Almeida - ? If Tony shows up, that will REALLY mess with our heads ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurenx Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) I watched this episode yesterday. Oh my gosh. I can hardly explain how amazing I thought it was. The cave was very interesting. I was reading http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidate this morning if anyone who hasn't seen it is interested. The bit I thought was odd was how, in a previous episode, it was stated the Jack "wasn't even on Jacob's list" hence making me think that Locke (or Smokey as I see he is being called ) was wrong when Sawyer asked if that meant Jack, and that it actually means Jack's dad. But honestly, I doubt that in the grand scheme of things, because the writers don't have the time to lie to us anymore lol. Gosh though, I really loved it. I also, for some reason I can't explain, loved the part where 'Locke' lifted the white stone from the scales and threw it into the ocean, calling it an 'inside joke'. I loved Richard's part too Kate still continues to irritate me quite a bit though...! Ahhh so excited for the next episode. Edited February 22, 2010 by Laurenx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambourne Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Kate still continues to irritate me quite a bit though...! How did Kate manage to irritate you without even being in the episode? She wasn't even on Jacob's wall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurenx Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 LOL! The Kate comment I meant in general for the season, not the specific episode I've never really warmed to her character, although I really like Evangeline Lilly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambourne Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 LOL! The Kate comment I meant in general for the season, not the specific episode I've never really warmed to her character, although I really like Evangeline Lilly... I was a Kate fan, but she's been grating on me for awhile and What Kate Does was a deal breaker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeblue Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Thoughts Yes its true that MIB has done some pretty evil stuff to get what he wants, which is to get off the island, and looking at it simplistically you could argue that hes the bad guy. Look at Jacob though, hes interjected himself into innocent peoples lives and dragged them through hell all for his own selfish purpose. We’re currently seeing that peoples lifes may have been good or bad had they not ended up on the island but even those whos lives weren’t improved by not being in the crash youd still argue that theyre better off than they were after crashing. Take Rose for instance, the crash cured her cancer but which life would she prefer, one where shes happy in the real world with her disease but where shes safe or one where shes stuck on the island (shes still there somewhere) running from Polar Bears and Smoke Monsters. Youd also think that not everyone on the plane could be a ‘candidate’ which means Jacob has ruined the lives of innocent people (Rose and Bernard again spring to mind) just to get the people he wanted (Jack, Sawyer and co) to the island. The same argument applies for the Black Rock ship, he brought it to the island just to get certain people there whilst forfeiting the other people on the ship. Id also question the MIB’s argument that Jacob was looking for his replacement. Jacob is clearly immortal (hes not dead that’s for sure) so unless he wanted to get off the island himself why would he need to find someone to replace him. Also he had Desmond there, whilst Desmond was pushing the button you could argue that he was protecting the island by making sure that the energy source did not go off and expose the island to the outside world. Yes he was protecting the island for Dharma in effect which is different from protecting it in the same way Jacob did but in effect it’s the same result. It seems to me that there was no need for Jacob to make the plane crash, and did he make the plane crash, afterall it was Desmond who failed to push the button which caused the crash so was that part of Jacobs design cause if it wasn’t then he didn’t bring them to the island, unless hes been forward in time, seen the plance would fly over so then gone back in time and touched everyone to make sure they were on the plane. Think about the island before the crash. The Dharma initiative were wiped out by the others, these others were connected to those living in the temple and they were all basically there as disciples of Jacob, everything went through the leader (Ben) who in turn ran everything through Jacob. The only threat to the island as far as I can see would have been from the MIB and we know that he didn’t want people to come to the island as per his discussion with Jacob on the beach when they were looking at the Black Rock approaching. So what was Jacob protecting the island from? The people on the island were no threat and were happily living there and Desmond had been convinced that he needed to remain in the hatch pushing the button so just what was the problem? MIB is clearly playing Sawyer and theres a lot more to yet be revealed, does your head hurt as much as mine?? Im probably missing some huge points but am just trying to think things through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurenx Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) Perhaps not important, but as a philosophy student, I was thinking that the show was perhaps taking a free will (without Jacob's intervention and perhaps the side of the coin that 'Locke'/MIB is on) versus determinism (with Jacob fating the plane to crash and pushing the passengers of Oceanic 815 to make all the choices that leads to them arriving on the island) sort of approach... but I don't really know. I think I read far too much into this show Edited February 23, 2010 by Laurenx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dufresne Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 I really liked this episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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