fray101 Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Again though, this comes down to attendees having respect for the guests. I was at an event last year where one of the guests was very frank about a co-star and creator of the show in question. And then it suddenly clicked - oops, this could end up all over the internet! So he asked people not to repeat it, and by some miracle, they actually didn't. To their friends, sure - but not on youtube or public Live Journals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousybrown Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 This discussion in my opinion is getting far too bitchy and i think everyone should just 'SHUT UP'. Theres nothing we can do about it. This 'arguing as such' is a complete waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkb Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 (edited) The thing is though, in the computer minded world nowadays it's very reasonable to assume everything will end up on the Internet at one point. In the case of conventions; people want to share stuff with their friends or get asked about it by other fans who couldn't attend but are dying to know what happened. If not in video form, written transcribes will pop up (and have already) from people who took notes for instance. Not sure if that was forbidden in the rules as well, but it doesn't come to mind this instantly. I don't think written transcripts are banned - nor indeed should they be, after all we're at a convention not a meeting of the Freemasons However, I would say that there is a difference of a con report - which you read in the knowledge that the wording is most likely not going to be a direct verbatim transcription - and the actual video footage which leaves no wiggle room for misunderstanding, lack of context or whatever. One is definitely stronger than the other - and holds more weight to the internet community, which I would guess is why so many actors insist on non video clauses in their con contracts. I understand where everyone's coming from, I really do, but I still think this whole thread is getting out of control for the issue it is and we should let Showmasters handle it as well as decide on how to inform people in the future and take other actions if they feel these are necessary. I agree. Which is why I'm going to try very hard not to post in here ever again Again though, this comes down to attendees having respect for the guests. I was at an event last year where one of the guests was very frank about a co-star and creator of the show in question. And then it suddenly clicked - oops, this could end up all over the internet! So he asked people not to repeat it, and by some miracle, they actually didn't. To their friends, sure - but not on youtube or public Live Journals. I was at the same con and I'm so glad that everyone was respectful as he was such a nice guy and so frank. This is what I mean :) Edited March 19, 2008 by nkb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeline Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I understand where everyone's coming from, but then I don't know what to make of this comment of the moderator's to a guest during their talk: "we've got it on video." And indeed, the talks were filmed professionally, so this hypothetical non-video clause in the guests' contracts loses some of its plausibility as far as I'm concerned. I think everyone's just a little too much "SERIOUS BUSINESS OMG" about this whole thing. Conventions attract tons of people. Video WILL show up online. It's a mathematical fact. Does that make it right in the absolute? Beats me. There just doesn't seem to be much anyone can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkb Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I understand where everyone's coming from, but then I don't know what to make of this comment of the moderator's to a guest during their talk: "we've got it on video." And indeed, the talks were filmed professionally, so this hypothetical non-video clause in the guests' contracts loses some of its plausibility as far as I'm concerned. Obviously none of us are privy to the contractual discussions between Showmasters and their guests. However I do know of guests at other cons who have said they didn't want their talks to go onto any convention DVDs made of the event. I'm not sure if SM are planning to release a DVD - I guess we'll have to wait and see. Plus having videoed the talks as a side effect of playing through the big screen is a bit different to uploading the lot onto You Tube. And I don't think the MC dude was planning on doing that (NB, I am joking there and not suggesting you actually thought that. Thought I'd best clarify as this thread is getting a bit fractious now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I understand where everyone's coming from, but then I don't know what to make of this comment of the moderator's to a guest during their talk: "we've got it on video." And indeed, the talks were filmed professionally, so this hypothetical non-video clause in the guests' contracts loses some of its plausibility as far as I'm concerned. Obviously none of us are privy to the contractual discussions between Showmasters and their guests. However I do know of guests at other cons who have said they didn't want their talks to go onto any convention DVDs made of the event. I'm not sure if SM are planning to release a DVD - I guess we'll have to wait and see. Plus having videoed the talks as a side effect of playing through the big screen is a bit different to uploading the lot onto You Tube. And I don't think the MC dude was planning on doing that (NB, I am joking there and not suggesting you actually thought that. Thought I'd best clarify as this thread is getting a bit fractious now) No, they actually had one of their crew with a video camera separate to the video camera used for the screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarina Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 And they told me if their would be enough good footage it would be released on DVD. Otherwise they will "just" play it at other Showmasters events very much like they did with talks from for example Jimmy Jean Louis on screens in the bar area throughout the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fray101 Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 "If" there was enough good footage?!! How could there not be Here's hoping for that DVD. (And if they did miss any good bits, maybe whoever was filming in the front row could lend them their video to fill in the gaps!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarina Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I REALLY want that DVD too! Let's start a campaign for that instead of letting people bitch at each other in this topic Make the new forum topic name: "David singing at Eclipse has been immortalised on DVD already". y/y? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkb Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 No, they actually had one of their crew with a video camera separate to the video camera used for the screens. Actually now you mention it I remembered that someone had been about with a video camera - and had come in to edit my post. Although I didn't notice him videoing the talks (I obviously only had eyes on Mr Anders ) it seemed more general shots of congoers having fun, being dressed up, queueing etc which I assumed was for promo purposes :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mk Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I understand where everyone's coming from, but then I don't know what to make of this comment of the moderator's to a guest during their talk: "we've got it on video." And indeed, the talks were filmed professionally, so this hypothetical non-video clause in the guests' contracts loses some of its plausibility as far as I'm concerned. I think everyone's just a little too much "SERIOUS BUSINESS OMG" about this whole thing. Conventions attract tons of people. Video WILL show up online. It's a mathematical fact. Does that make it right in the absolute? Beats me. There just doesn't seem to be much anyone can do about it. Showmasters will almost definitely edit the videos and obtain permission from teh actors involved before either selling the video or screening it at another event. If you still don't get why this IS a 'SERIOSU BUSINESS OMG', then you're not paying attention to people explaining WHY. Video's do NOT show up online very often. The most recent cases of them showing up HAVE caused problems for the organisers and HAVE given them problem bringing over some guests. I've talked to them about it, they were not happy. As for what we can do about it, as I have stated, if by expressing that this is disrespectful to those that these people claim to admire, maybe we convince one or two people to stop doing it. The alternative (as you seem to suggest) is to stick our heads in the sand and just hope it doesn't cause a problem in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalfia Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I have too much love for this man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeline Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I understand where everyone's coming from, but then I don't know what to make of this comment of the moderator's to a guest during their talk: "we've got it on video." And indeed, the talks were filmed professionally, so this hypothetical non-video clause in the guests' contracts loses some of its plausibility as far as I'm concerned. I think everyone's just a little too much "SERIOUS BUSINESS OMG" about this whole thing. Conventions attract tons of people. Video WILL show up online. It's a mathematical fact. Does that make it right in the absolute? Beats me. There just doesn't seem to be much anyone can do about it. Showmasters will almost definitely edit the videos and obtain permission from teh actors involved before either selling the video or screening it at another event. Fair enough. It occured to me that that might be the case. Video's do NOT show up online very often. The most recent cases of them showing up HAVE caused problems for the organisers and HAVE given them problem bringing over some guests. I've talked to themabout it, they were not happy. Did you mean you've talked to the organizers, or the guests? Because of course, the organizers would frown upon it - what do they stand to gain from it? Nothing at all. But with shows that have big followings, and this is certainly the case with Heroes, as we all know; I believe you may be underestimating the guests' awareness of fandom. They very well know any word they utter in public is bound to be reported in some capacity, be it to immediate friends or complete strangers over the internet. It's not new and they surely realize as much. I can appreciate that a lot of what is said under the circumstances of a convention might not be as readily or spontaneously volunteered in a press interview, but to expect those things to stay under wraps forever strikes me as incredibly naive. As for what we can do about it, as I have stated, if by expressing that this is disrespectful to those that these people claim to admire, maybe we convince one or two people to stop doing it. The alternative (as you seem to suggest) is to stick our heads in the sand and just hope it doesn't cause a problem in future. I don't know about that. To be honest, chances are I wouldn't have found my way to the video and its subsequent LiveJournal discussion for a while, if the links hadn't been posted here. Double-edged sword, I guess. You try to educate people about the ills of con video sharing, that'll only set off more people looking at/for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mk Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Video's do NOT show up online very often. The most recent cases of them showing up HAVE caused problems for the organisers and HAVE given them problem bringing over some guests. I've talked to themabout it, they were not happy. Did you mean you've talked to the organizers, or the guests? Because of course, the organizers would frown upon it - what do they stand to gain from it? Nothing at all. But with shows that have big followings, and this is certainly the case with Heroes, as we all know; I believe you may be underestimating the guests' awareness of fandom. They very well know any word they utter in public is bound to be reported in some capacity, be it to immediate friends or complete strangers over the internet. It's not new and they surely realize as much. I can appreciate that a lot of what is said under the circumstances of a convention might not be as readily or spontaneously volunteered in a press interview, but to expect those things to stay under wraps forever strikes me as incredibly naive. I have spoken to another organiser (whose name I cannot mention) and they were experiencing difficulties getting guests from a show, due to a proliferation of bootleg videos appearing on You Tube. It's worth noting that this is a reasonably new phenomenon, in part caused by improvements in technology and in part caused by a shift in the attendees (more than half the people at Eclipse seemed to be new to eventing). As for what we can do about it, as I have stated, if by expressing that this is disrespectful to those that these people claim to admire, maybe we convince one or two people to stop doing it. The alternative (as you seem to suggest) is to stick our heads in the sand and just hope it doesn't cause a problem in future. I don't know about that. To be honest, chances are I wouldn't have found my way to the video and its subsequent LiveJournal discussion for a while, if the links hadn't been posted here. Double-edged sword, I guess. You try to educate people about the ills of con video sharing, that'll only set off more people looking at/for them. But if you attach a negative stigma to the act, then maybe it will deter people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Respect. That's all that's needed. Something not around much anymore, from the playground to the home to the workplace. It starts relatively small; queue jumping, guest mobbing etc. But these teensy weensy things end up with the jedi chef poster theft, for example. Bloody hell! that rhymed - jedi chef poster theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyT Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I understand where everyone's coming from, but then I don't know what to make of this comment of the moderator's to a guest during their talk: "we've got it on video." And indeed, the talks were filmed professionally, so this hypothetical non-video clause in the guests' contracts loses some of its plausibility as far as I'm concerned. I think everyone's just a little too much "SERIOUS BUSINESS OMG" about this whole thing. Conventions attract tons of people. Video WILL show up online. It's a mathematical fact. Does that make it right in the absolute? Beats me. There just doesn't seem to be much anyone can do about it. Showmasters will almost definitely edit the videos and obtain permission from teh actors involved before either selling the video or screening it at another event. Fair enough. It occured to me that that might be the case. Not only will respectable event organisers give the guests a content veto, I would expect that they will also broach the subject of royalties, unless these were already covered in the original contract, even if only for the guest to formally waive such rights. Video's do NOT show up online very often. The most recent cases of them showing up HAVE caused problems for the organisers and HAVE given them problem bringing over some guests. I've talked to themabout it, they were not happy. Did you mean you've talked to the organizers, or the guests? Because of course, the organizers would frown upon it - what do they stand to gain from it? Nothing at all. Not strictly true; in certain circumstances the organisers could view it as great viral advertising. Here's a celebrity saying or doing something interesting at XYZ event. "Hmm" thinks section of general public, "looks like an interesting event, I must go to the next one". Doesn't work with everybody that way, but some people will get an interest because of it. Of course, on the down side, yes, some organisers may also be anti because of potential future problems too, but it's certainly not a one-sided equation. And the fact that some organisers can still be down on it, even despite it being free advertising, is a measure of how potentially negative the other effects can be. It's not just con organisers wanting to spoil people's fun or be control freaks... But with shows that have big followings, and this is certainly the case with Heroes, as we all know; I believe you may be underestimating the guests' awareness of fandom. They very well know any word they utter in public is bound to be reported in some capacity, be it to immediate friends or complete strangers over the internet. It's not new and they surely realize as much. I can appreciate that a lot of what is said under the circumstances of a convention might not be as readily or spontaneously volunteered in a press interview, but to expect those things to stay under wraps forever strikes me as incredibly naive. Is it? It's naive if people don't understand the quid pro quo and don't have a sense of community, or dare one say it, an enlightened sense of self interest. If they do understand the "unwritten rule", then it may continue - the unwritten rule being that if people are cool and discreet and respectful, then guests will be more at ease and relaxed and frank with them. On the other hand, if guests think that every time they open their mouth there will be 50 wannabe paparazzi daubing their every movement all over the internet, you'll get "safe and bland performances. It's not completely unrealistic; if a bunch of viciously competitive, cut-throat, borderline amoral cases like the British newspaper and "celebrity magazine" press can all agree to keep quiet about a prince of the realm serving in Afghanistan, because they know they'll get full-access interviews at the end of it, then you'd have thought a bunch of apparent fans could do as well. As for what we can do about it, as I have stated, if by expressing that this is disrespectful to those that these people claim to admire, maybe we convince one or two people to stop doing it. The alternative (as you seem to suggest) is to stick our heads in the sand and just hope it doesn't cause a problem in future. I don't know about that. To be honest, chances are I wouldn't have found my way to the video and its subsequent LiveJournal discussion for a while, if the links hadn't been posted here. Double-edged sword, I guess. You try to educate people about the ills of con video sharing, that'll only set off more people looking at/for them. Yes, but on that basis we wouldn't warn anybody about the downsides of, say, heroin or teenage pregnancy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodas'stuntman Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 The guy was an absolute legend all weekend!! My gay friend who came with me asked him to put "thanks dave for last night xoxox" so he could go home and make his bf jealous and he did! Sooooo funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousybrown Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 this topic is so full of pages full of quotes that i get confused just looking at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morden Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 this topic is so full of pages full of quotes that i get confused just looking at it. I know what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousybrown Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 this topic is so full of pages full of quotes that i get confused just looking at it. I know what you mean. at least im not alone. i was so sure everyone was enjoying the confusement caused. i cant keep up anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morden Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 this topic is so full of pages full of quotes that i get confused just looking at it. I know what you mean. at least im not alone. i was so sure everyone was enjoying the confusement caused. i cant keep up anymore. You're right - lots of quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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