So what is going on?

[jakeblue]

I know that we all have theories and below is mine posted elsewhere but brought here to start conversation about the topic. So what do the rest of you think??

 

I guess it means that whatever happened happened and that Daniel couldn’t change things in the way he thought he could. If you think of it as follows I guess it makes sense –

 

 

 

Everything that has happened will always happen and nothing can change that. The plane always crashes in 2004 as a result of Desmond not pushing the button. The reason he is there pushing the button is because of the accident which is going to happen/has happened in 1977 and this accident can never be stopped from happening as it has already happened in the world of 1977. Similarly the Losties ending up in 1977 must also have always happened as Kate takes Ben to be cured by the Others and they send him back to the Dharma people which leads eventually to all the Dharma people being killed by the others. Had the Losties not been on the island in 1977, Sayid wouldn’t have shot Ben as a child and Kate would never have saved him therefore he would never have joined the Others and Dharma would still be on the island in 2004.

 

 

 

The interesting thing is how do the Losties get back to 2004 when the original plane crashed. If they have to live on the Island from 1977 onwards then this means that they are already there when the plane crashes and consequently at that time there would be two of them on the island at that point, the original 2004 crash survivors and the Losties who have jumped back to 1977 and have now aged by 27 years. Alternately they could be killed during the 27 year period as this would not effect the original timeline of the crash or the jump back to the 70s which will always happen as the Island exists outside of the usual boundaries of time and therefore would not effect them living and growing in the outside world. Another possibility is that the Island jumps them forward in time again or that they find themselves bouncing around here there and everywhere and not getting any older like Richard who doesn’t age. Whichever one of these options is correct they still couldn’t meet or interact with the version of themselves who crash on the Island in 2004 as this would change things and consequently the path of time would not necessarily run to the path that it has to.

 

 

 

That’s why Daniels mum sent Daniel to the Island as she knew she had to, if she didn’t then things would change and she has no idea what that would do to her or anyone else in her present which is 2007. For instance, if you went back in time and didn’t work for the company you do then not only would this change your future leading to the point where you jumped back in time but it would also effect the time lines of everyone you’ve met and worked with during that period of time. Also someone else would have taken your job here and their timeline and that of everyone they come into contact with would change too. It’s the ripple effect where the most significant change would be around you as the central ripple and as the rings get bigger but decrease in strength other peoples lives would be changed to a lesser extent the further away from you they are.

 

 

 

The random factor of the whole thing now however is that Daniel has put into Jack and Kates heads about the bomb being able to change things so that they never crash and subsequently never end up in 1977. Could they try to put this plan into action and would it work anyway? Im thinking that it wouldn’t work because if the plane never crashed then the boat would never have gone looking for the Losties. Therefore Daniel would never have been on the Island and would never have gone back to the 1950s to see the bomb and repair the leak in the first place. This would mean that the bomb would have continued to leak and then caused a major problem long before 1977 and the whole history of the Island would be changed. Similarly if they never crashed on the Island then the lives of the Losties would be changed and going back to the ripple effect the lives of everyone else around them would be changed too. Kate would have gone to prision and her guard wouldn’t have been killed, this would then effect everyone he met being alive rather than dead etc…….

 

 

 

Clearly ive thought about this far too much and am probably a long long way from the truth but that’s my thoughts on it and im sticking to it.

[jakeblue]

Been thinking about the whole bomb thing and have a feeling it is going to come into play. They wouldn’t keep mentioning it if nothing was going to happen and therefore I think one of two things may happen –

 

 

 

1 – Jack and Kate believe that the bomb could change their destiny (even though I don’t believe it can as per my previous post) so they go to find it to change the future. They find the bomb and set it off but in doing so they actually start the incident which leads to the hatch being built rather than stopping the incident. This would mean of course that the incident would never happen if they didn’t mess with the bomb and it goes back to what I said about their fates being sealed and nothing being able to be changed. It was Daniels fate to go back to the island and try to set the bomb off and then to be killed by his mum. His mum knew this and that’s why she played her part in sending him to the island in the first place. She knew that if he didn’t go to the island then he would never believe he could change things and would never go to set off the bomb, this in turn would mean the incident would never happen and consequently the future we know happens never would take place.

 

 

 

Daniel also told Chang to get everyone off the island, if he listens to Daniel then this will explain why the child versions of Miles and Charlotte left the island before the incident happened and consequently never died there at any point, this enables them to return there as adults……every action taken basically is cementing the fact that what weve seen thus far in 4 seasons of this show will happen and now we are seeing why.

 

 

 

2 – The bomb isn’t what sets off the incident, if this is the case then the bomb will not go off regardless of what Jack and Kate do as it never happened and therefore never will. The island may let them believe the bomb has gone off and show them an alternative future where they never crashed on the island but ultimately I think it would take them back and force them to play out their ‘destiny’.

 

 

 

Certainly the end of this seasons and the last season which we will be waiting for will be interesting, especially when we have questions still to be answered.

 

 

 

Who is Jacob? I still think this could end up being Locke

What is the statue, who built it, and why does it only have 4 toes?

Why does Richard never age? The Losties leapt back to the 70’s and were the same age they were in 2004/07. However if they remain on the island for the next 30 years you would believe that they will age 30 years, if not then obviously the fact that have leapt about in time has some sort of effect on their bodies. If they do age then you have to wonder how Richard doesn’t, is he special and in what way?

[C.Parkers-Girl]

Maybe Richard is Jacob which is why he knows so much and he is special so never ages....

 

TBH I havent got a clue whats happening...I can follow the storyline but im struggling to predict whats next cause anything could happen on lost.

 

Like whats gonna happen now Juliet, Kate n Sawyer have gone off in the sub. If nothing can be changed they cant go back to real world in 1977 cause they wouldnt exist in the future, cant be 2 of everyone...can there?

[jakeblue]

THe sub will clearly make it back to the real world as Miles and Charlotte are on it and thats their destiny......As for the Losties and Juliette they will have to end up back on the island as thats where they have to stay due to the nature of two of the same entity being in the same place and this not being possible as far as i can tell.

 

Maybe therell be another flash and theyll end up off the sub but back on the island, maybe at a point between 1977 and 2004 where they would meet up with Jack and co who have remained on the island but aged?? Whilst the flash would do this to them anyone whos destiny it is to be on the sub and get back to the real world would remain on the sub and carry on their merry way........like the survivors of the second crash in 2007 who remained on the plane after Jack and the other Losties had been flashed off of it

 

After the incident some Dharma people remain on the island as they build the hatch and button that Desmond goes on to push to stop the electromagnetic pulse going off. The fact that some will leave is just to get the people who need to get off the island off it. As we know those who stay on the island will eventually be killed by the Others including Ben. The interesting thing is that the Losties have to remain on the Island now regardless as if they leave they’ll be in the real world as both their adult and child selves which would create a paradox of some kind. Therefore they are on the island when the Others kill the Dharma people and as they don’t die youd have to think that by the time that happens they have joined the others but are away somewhere out of sight……..in the temple maybe? Either that or theyre dead as they can now die on the island as their child selves will grow up to get on the plane and crash etc….

 

 

 

Another reason why they cant leave is that they could contact their child selves in the real world and attempt to alter the future which cannot happen.

[tomdsjames]

It's an interesting theory but Miles' adult and child self have already met each other.

[jakeblue]

Yes they have but not in the outside world where anything could change. Theyve met on the island which is all part of their destiny/fate. The fact that Miles is there as an adult and convinces Chang hes from the future which leads Chang to take Miles as a baby from the island would indicate that it was always Miles being on the Island that makes Miles as a baby not be there when the incident happens or later when Dharma are killed by the Others.

[cyberem78]

i think the inncident still happens to cause the 815 plane crashing but maybe also creates a different second timeline too where things are slightly different. I think Jacob could be either a 815 survivor caught between the two time dimensions (if such a thing is possible!!! ) or a child of two 815 survivors (my guess is Sawyer and Juliet's child) stuck inbetween timelines who got there because his parents who created him in the past had never met in the future!!! (ugh, what!?? )

 

I think there will be another flash to take the Losties away before Ben gases the Dharma and land them either back into their present (2007) or way into the past where they'll be stuck and perhaps do something like create the Dharma initiative themselves.

 

If they do die in 1977 what would happen in S6?

[Lizzy]

It'll be very short

[jakeblue]

They went back to 1977 and then tried to change things, however surely things cant have changed. If they had then in 2007 Ben could not have killed Jacob. 1977 occured 30 years before 2007 and therefore has already happened, the fact that we are shown what happens in 2007 means that nothing can change in 1977 as what has happened has happened. If the plane didnt crash in 2004 then Locke would never have been on the island, left, died, returned (albeit not really him) and found the loophole. It cannot possibly change things for what we have seen we have seen and thats the way fate pans out. Clearly Jacob knew what was coming (more likely than not has been to future as well as the past) and set in motion the events which lead firstly to his death and then to 'them' coming, the them surely being the Losties, as i think the white flash is a jump in time, whether the bomb goes off or not is inconsequential as if it didnt it didnt and if it did then it always did and was part of the incident in the first place.

 

I really hope this doesnt become some sort of life and death struggle between evil and good spirits like some bad Stephen King novel full of Egyptian mythology, of course theyll be some but lets not lose sight of whats made this show great this last season.

 

Also, they cant change things as Arron is not on the Island so whilst things would change for them it would not not him (or for that matter Walt), therefore if the plane never crashed Claire would have had her child in the real world and there would be two versions of Arron roaming around which i dont believe could happen. Walt is the same as when things could change (even though i dont think they do) he is off island and therefore would be unaffected, though the 2004 version of him would be on the plane but as it wouldnt crash there would be two of him in the real world too.

[jakeblue]

Been giving this some thought -

 

So here is what I think is happening –

 

There has been throughout the history of lost a theme of good and evil or black and white. There were references to chess early on and of course up until recently we have been led to believe that the Others were evil and the Losties were of course good. This theme continued with the beginning of this years finale, Jacob was wearing white and the other guy (lets call him Locke X for now) was wearing black. Clearly the ship at the beginning was the Black Rock which ended up in the middle of the Island somehow and Locke X made reference to the ship being there because Jacob had brought it there, this didn’t please Locke X and he said he would find a way to kill Jacob, he also said that whenever people were brought to the Island there was always death and destruction and maybe (this isn’t set in stone) the Black Rock crew were involved in the destruction of the statue. I think we should maybe also assume that Jacob went and met the members of the crew before they set sail in much the same way he met the Losties before they landed on the island, it would appear that by meeting people and touching them he is actually setting them on their path of destiny which as we now know leads them to the Island. Does this mean that Jacob is responsible for Danielle and her crew arriving there too? If yes then this was clearly done as her destiny was supposed to be on the island where she would interact with the Losties and play her part in leading them down the correct path.

 

As we now know the Losties destiny is to basically create the accident which will lead their plane to crash in 2004, they have fulfilled this destiny by ending up in 1977 and thinking that they are changing the future they have actually made sure that it will happen as it was meant to. For instance Ben would never had ended up with the Others had Sayid not shot him, the Incident may have been contained had they not increased its impact with the bomb, Miles and Charlotte would never have left the island if the Losties had not convinced Chang they were from the future and he hadn’t then evacuated the island. However what isn’t clear is who is really behind their destiny is it Jacob or is it Locke X. Locke X has been planning Jacobs death for a long time and I believe that he may have been behind all of the visits made to various people in various forms whilst they were on the island (Walt appearing to Locke, Christian Shepard appearing to various people etc) if this is the case then he was making this visits to these people to push them along the destiny path set before them, his ultimate goal being that they would leave the island, get on another plane, crash again and he could then pose as Locke and eventually get Ben to kill Jacob. We already know that Locke X was the one who told Richard to tell Locke that he would have to die to get the others back to the island. If he hadn’t of told him this then Locke would never have tried to hang himself and Ben would not have had the opportunity to finish him off (in a straight struggle my money would be on Locke over Ben everytime). If it is the case that it was Locke X and not Jacob leading the Losties down their destiny path then what part does Jacob play? If it is all about a struggle between Jacob and Locke X then maybe Jacob set the Losties on their path to the island knowing that Locke X would manipulate things and ultimately lead to Jacobs death. At this moment it appears that Locke X has won but of course Jacob did say ‘theyre coming’ this would indicate that someone is on their way (presumably the Losties) and that Jacob knew he was going to die but was prepared to do so because he knew that ultimately the path he had set the Losties on would see them in a position to finish off Locke X and lead to Jacobs victory not a victory for Locke X. Clearly Locke X didn’t know where Jacob was on the island otherwise he could have saved a lot of time and trouble and just taken Ben there directly and done what he had to do, the fact Richard had to lead him there shows he needed guidance in finding Jacob. Maybe the reverse is true and Jacob couldn’t find Locke X in order to be able to deal with him, therefore he went to all this trouble to lead Locke X to him to allow him to believe he had won whilst all the while knowing that once Locke X was revealed ‘they’ would be able to deal with him.

 

There are two clearly defined sides right now, in 2007 you have the ‘good guys’ who have revealed to Richard that Locke is truly dead, they are on the side of Jacob (as is Richard) and on the other side you have Locke X who has Ben on his side. The unknown element of the 2007 crew are the remaining others who have followed Locke X believeing him to be Locke but are you imagine faithful to Richard, therefore which side of the fence do they fall onto. In 1977 there are the remaining Dharma people and the 77 Others, we are still unclear as to which side of this equation are supposed to be good and which are supposed to be evil. The Others would appear to have been collected together over time by Jacob though how and why remains unclear, maybe Jacob is a character that requires contact of a kind or maybe he has to replace each generation of Others with the next, the constant of course being Richard who outside of Jacob appears to be the only person who doesn’t age in any outward fashion. We also as yet have no real clear indication of how the Egyptian aspect of the whole thing has come into play. There has been discussion regarding Egyptian Philosophy online which is great but until this is clearly defined within the world of Lost its all just pie in the sky, but what with the statue, Jacobs weaving and the Hirogliphics its clear that there is an Egyptian theme, though of course Jacob does not look Egyptian in the slightest. You also have to wonder how much of the mythology of the island is known to the Dharma group or how they ever found out about it. For instance once the button wasn’t pushed and the countdown got to zero the numbers turned into Egyptian symbols, this was set by Dharma and cannot just be a coincidence when you think back to the statue and everything else. Maybe the statue was still there when they arrived and from that they got their inspiration, this would mean that they were somehow involved in the destruction of the statue rather than the Black Rock crew (speaking of which, could the ship be where Richard came from or is he from the same source as Jacob). They also clearly know about the weakness of the Smoke Monster and this is why the built the type of fence they did to keep the monster out. As far as how did they discover the island this could be somebody who was banished from the island (like Widmore was) giving them the information (couldn’t be Widmore as Dharma were there before Elosie became pregnant and as we know Widmore is Daniels dad) or alternately maybe it was Locke X in one form or another again battling against the side led by Jacob by bringing a force to stand in the way of Jacobs Others. Maybe Jacob is in tune with the island and Locke X brought the Dharma group there in order to better understand the islands secrets and how he could use this to rid himself of Jacob. Of course however Dharma coming to the island led to the beginning of the Destiny paths of the likes of Ben, Miles, Daniel and Charlotte.

 

Back to ‘theyre coming’ and the Losties returning to 2007. If this does happen then they would surely be aligned against Locke X which would somewhat balance the sides of power assuming the Others of that time remain with Locke X. However now that Locke X has done what he believes he need to do to rid himself of Jacob would he need a ‘side’. Under normal circumstances no but there is clearly something special about the Losties which worries Locke X and therefore having people onside would be very helpful indeed.

 

Most of this has been covered before but it is for my sins my take on things, so I guess im gonna have to wait a while to see what actually happens.

 

Oh and in closing, I don’t believe that the Losties can leave the island until they are at least in 2007. Those that left in 2004 and crashed again in 2007 could leave in 2007 as survivors of another plane crash. They could not land back in 2004 and leave however as they have already done that and this would mean there would be two of them doing the same thing at that time. They also couldn’t leave the island in 1977 or anytime between then and 2007 because this would lead to two versions of themselves being in the real world, the real world version that grew normally until the plane crash of 2004 and the 2007 version of themselves which crashed on the island for the second time and then ended up back in 1977 but didn’t change in age. Similarly those who remained on the island in 2004 (Sawyer and Co) couldn’t leave the island between 1974 (where they ended up) and 2004 as there would be two versions of themselves in the real world. They couldn’t leave between 2004 and 2007 because they have yet to live those years as they never made it past 2004 due to the time skips which I believe for them were all backwards and forwards in time prior to 2004. They could theorectically leave in 2007 as long lost survivors of the original plane crash however be it by jumping to 2007 or by returning to 2004 and then living out the three years until 2007 comes around.

 

I look forward to season 6 with trepidation as it could be brilliant or it could really drop the ball.

[riversidejon]

Cant believe that even now, more questions are being raised than answered. It does make me feel unsatsified that a question is answered with another question. Just give the audience an answer? what is Lost?.

 

The end of season 5 was gripping, Jacob is he Good? What was the ash line around the Hut that was broken, what has happended to Clare from season 4 finale, baby earyn, Mr whitmore, desmond.etc.

 

whos the new faction. where was smokey??????? at least vincents alive.. YAY...

 

another thing time travel, I cant believe that saywer, jack, kate, Hurley (i know star wars script), had not watched back to the future part 2. Just send a letter via the Sub to the post office to deliver at a certain date in the future to themselves. telling them about the island etc include photos not to go there... or even give them the winning lotto numbers that hurley won with, they all be rich...

 

Anyhow, as good as Lost is, it is very annoying that answers are not answered and when they are the answer is criptic. oh well just hope that the final season answers all the questions....

[Chiandra]

Cant believe that even now, more questions are being raised than answered. It does make me feel unsatsified that a question is answered with another question. Just give the audience an answer? what is Lost?.

 

It's a TV show!!!