lorannah

Hmmm.... this Valinor thing is confusing, I've just looked over a few of my books, and I'll try to give a simplified history of the place, ok I'll start at the beginning: In the beginning there was Eru (Iluvatar) and the offspring of his thought were the Valar (while actually the Ainur, but they became the Valar and from here on in I'm ignoring stuff like this OK) and he taught them many things and in their song they created Middle Earth to Eru's vision, though not all was well in the song for Melkor (Morgoth) the most powerful of the Valar sowed distress and discord in the music. When the work was done, Eru showed the Valar a vision of Middle Earth and all that would happen there. And they loved it, and decided in their desire to live there and then many of the Valar moved to Middle-Earth, and with them went Melkor. But he revealed his treachery and with his hosts destroyed the land and their home, and without the power to overthrow him the Valar fled middle Earth. At last they came to the Westernmost of all lands near the edge of the world and in that land they built Valinor and fortified it against Melkor and it became more beautiful than all of Middle-Earth When the firstborn Children of Illuvatar (Eru), the Elves awoke on Middle-Earth the Valar found them, for Tulkas still hunted there and they led them to Valinor, though all did not go and they lived there for many years, until one of the peoples of the elves betrayed them and fled their shores returning to Middle Earth and their excile began. Until many years later when Earendel returned to Valinor and bade the assistance of the Valar, and Melkor was banished and the excile was lifted and the elves could choose to return to Valinor from the Gray Havens. OK that's a very rough history of Valinor Next question.... just kidding Lorannah

To my understanding (although can't remember exactly where I read it) Valinor does not have the ability to extend the life of mortals indefinitely - because mortality was the gift of Eru the One and can not be taken away, even by the Valar. But it is like living in the best health spa in the world - so you're likely to live to the ripest old age possible. And it is extremely likely that Frodo and Sam will see each other again. What I've always wanted to know is whether the Valar kicked Legolas out when they realised he'd brought Gimli with him - they were never fond of dwarves. Lorannah

MANY MANY MANY MANY SPOILERS!!!! Well I was naughty and evil - and despite my chicken pox I covered up completely and went to see the screening I had tickets for (which makes me feel really guilty in case I've infected everyone - not to mention Viggo and Bernard and Ian and all the lovely people I met at the premiere) - that ring does odd things to a girl. Other than the guilt it was completely worth it, it was everything I expected and more. This week has been a bit challenging, having to cancel a few trips and finding out that many of my relatives aren't coming to us for Christmas day (the chicken pox that stole christmas and all), so I guess I'm maybe not as emotionally stable as normal - which was pretty much evidenced when as soon as the first shot appeared (the delectable Andy) I burst into tears and pretty much didn't stop crying for the rest of the film. I loved the introduction, it's always been one of those things for me, how they would introduce each film, and I have loved the way they have done each one. This one taking us right back into the Gollum-Smeagol pysche, as well as the mechanics of the Smagol-Deagol fight providing a symbolic comparison with the later Frodo-Gollum fight outside Sheolobs lair. Also the tiny moment where in a blink the eyes transformed from Andy's deseased globes to Gollums more familiar ones, though less technically brilliant than the Bernard Hill transformation in the second film, I thought was just beautiful. As I am talking about beginnings, I might as well mention 'ends' as well (sorry I doubt very much we're going to get a structure here and it's just a collection of rambling thoughts really). Well not really 'ends' more 'credits' really - the complete departure from the credits for the first two movies was initially shock, but their beauty combined with the song and the words 'the end' made me burst into tears all over again (only the second time that a films credits have made me do that). I felt that the decision to encapsulate some of the actors from all the films was perfect. It is fitting that the only film to have a prologue was the first and the only film to have (for lack of a better word) 'true' credits was the last - like the books these weren't supposed to be three seperate entities they are one complete film, and I can't wait until we can watch it like that. (Also on a credits note I'm sure everyone at one-ring is frustrated that while FIGWIT has finally made it on the credits he still hasn't got a name - 'elf escort' indeed) Some of the film remains as a blur to me - emotions and feelings, with odd scenes shining really brightly. The disintergrating relationship between Sam and Frodo was heartbreaking, with Gollums machinations, making me hate him (though at the same time I will always always love him). So many little moments building this sequence up - the poolside fight, the lembas... but nothing really prepared me for Sams huddled form as Frodo left [oh s**t... I'm crying again..........] Through all the horrors in the trilogy the collapse in this relationship was the hardest for me to bear, because for a lot of the time it felt like the one thing that would remain strong and constant. Of course for a lot of the early parts of the films are about seperations and I guess I should state now that this is probably going to be a very hobbit centric review (this is nothing against the other characters, it's just since the first time I read the books over a decade ago, I immediately connected and loved the hobbits - and the films haven't changed that). The most obvious other seperation is of course Merry and Pippin. This is another powerful moment, though perhaps I should mention some other Merry-Pippin bits first. Their first appearance is exactly as I'd always pictured it from the books, I can't say anything better than that. Theres another drunken hobbit scene - which I loved - just can't beat these hobbit table dancing clubs. The palantir scene - wasn't convinced at first, but I think I like it - certainly love the Gandalf questioning bit - the look on Pippin's face. And of course the leaving hurts. Most of these bits are made for me by Billy - I have always been astonished by his talent - most of all by the sheer expressionism of his face - he has the ability to show so much and explain so much with such __________ of expression. One of my few complaints about the film (and is not a complaint about the vision, directing, acting or production - but merely the lack of time to tell the story) is that Merry's story is rather short changed - particularly his relationship with Theoden, which is not explored. It seems almost a loss not to see Merry swear fealty to the King, after having seen the photo for so long - for me as a book reader, it is hard loss for other reasons - it is an important step in Merry's journey (which in the book is of course climaxed with Theodens death - which in the film is also overlooked - as is Eomers discovery of Eowyn on the battlefield (though this is of course mirrored in the extended two towers with his discovery of Theodred)) and of course it means you lose the comparisons between Theoden and Deneathor as leaders. It does feel during a lot of the film that it is rushed and things are passed over - particularly the faramir-eowyn story, but I'm not sure there was any other way it could be. Ironically this is also a complaint I have to some extent of the last book. The reason that the Sheolob attack was moved to Two Towers was because the last half of book 6 was given to saying goodbye (and though I love that part of the book it means the climax of Frodos quest is squeezed into half a book). I felt that perhaps Tolkien should have made it longer - put the goodbyes into a Book 7. But then that's just my thoughts. Anyway I think many of these problems within the film will be sorted out within the Extended Edition (can't wait to see that one) Back to Pippin - Pippin was always my favourite character in the book because he had the strongest positive growth throughout his journey. There are almost too many Pippin moments for me to sort them in my head or clarify them. So many wonderful moments with Deneathor - one in particular as he swore his oath and Deneathor took his face in his hand - for some reason for me it seemed one step away from child abuse - and brought home to me what it must have been like for Boromir and Faramir to grow up. Other moments were just as powerful like the pyre (so difficult to forget in the books and more so in the film) but perhaps they all pale into insignificance for me when compared to the song (which I'm sure we'll hear much more about on these boards). In my mind nothing could have given these moments more strength or poignancy. Although I agree that the eating ruins the performance it some way - for me it also makes the sequence with the delicate beauty and innocence of the song and Pippin's sorrow as he sings it intercut with Faramir's pointless heroic ride, which has no hope (especially after the loss of his brother - truly the closest thing he ever had to a father - and Deneathors disgust) underscored with that relentless uncaring chewing - that's a scene that will not be forgotten quickly. Speaking of songs there was one I missed, as it was my favourite from the book - Sams song in Cirith Ungol:- In Western Lands beneath the sun, the flowers may rise in Spring The trees may bud, the waters run, the merry finces sing Or there maybe 'tis cloudless night and swaying beeches bear The Elven stars as jewels white amid their branching hair Though here I lie at journeys end in darkness buried deep Beyond the towers strong and high, beyond the moutnaisn steep Above the shadows rides the sun and stars forever dwell I will not say the day is done nor bid the stars farewell. But then I think the way they did it is perhaps stronger, rawer and more immediate - but I don't really want to talk about that scene yet. One thing I wish to say is what a wonderful job the writers did incorporating Tolkiens words. So much of the words of the Frodo and Sam relationship - down to the voice-over at the end are my favourite phrases and words - that I sort of carry with me - and hearing these actors that I've come to love saying them meant so much. I think perhaps I have said to much, and have too much left to say - so many cool moments that were just cool for themselves - the lighting of the beacons, the armouring of the Witchking, the way his Nazgul wrapped it's wing around a turret to secure itself, the angle the camera as the spider climbs above Frodo, the way it spun it's web around him and of course the murmakil. And so many moving moments, and beautiful moments that I can't begin to list - and for me at least the ending was perfect. So yes, finished in a hurry [because I need to go reapply the camomile lotion] and not saying everything I want, because I don't think I can at the moment. Maybe they'll be more later Lorannah

Ahhhh..... I don't know what to do - I've got my tickets for tomorrow, but I've just come down with chickenpox - so I probably shouldn't go. I was looking forward to it so much. Lorannah

The thing is that this year the UK wasn't an important premiere (although symbolically, as the home of Tolkien, it could be argued to be). New Zealand was the world premiere, LA was the US premiere and Berlin was the European premiere - while the UK one was just the UK, important but not at the same level of the others. As far as I've been aware the actors contracts state that they must be available for New Line's promotion unless they have other commitments, and in this case as has already been said (and as I was informed ny the Sun journalist trying to find a distraught fan to interview as and I quote "that's the angle we're taking") - they both had valid reasons. As for the SNL promotion side of things - there were 10,000 people at the premiere - and then those that caught it on the television - and personally I think that there were plenty of actors that turned up to cover that promotion. While Elijah's performance will I suspect reach millions in a slot that would otherwise not have included LOTR promotion. As for people not being able to meet them - they have all attended previous UK premieres and many of them have shown dedication to meeting fans through events like Collectormania. Please don't get me wrong, I was really disappointed too, but I just feel that this is being taken quite personally - I think that despite what we fans would like, or what the actors themselves are like things just don't always turn out that way. Lorannah

Hi all, Well I'm still counting my lucky stars after the premiere - as despite the disappointment and horror of being forced to the back for the arrivals - I managed to get back to the front for the departures. And I got a bit carried away with taking photos (110), which I thought I'd share with you - anyway I had to put them in four albums: Photos 1-25 Photos 26-50 Photos 51-75 Photos 76-110 The photos are done chronologically, but I thought some of you might want to check them by the people you're interested in, so here's a list to help: Andy Serkis: 94 - 110 (Also can be seen in 19) Barrie Osborne: 64 - 66 Bernard Hill: 14 - 25 Billy Boyd: 8, 79 - 86 David Wenham: 5 Dominic Monaghan: 9 - 11, 78 (Also can kind of be seen in 17 and 19) Ian Holm: 73 - 77 Ian McKellan: 6, 87 - 93 Liv Tyler: 7, 56 - 63 Peter Jackson: 3, 47 - 55 Richard Taylor: 4, 58 - 60 Sean Astin: 67 - 72 Viggo Mortensen: 26 - 46 Hope that helps and you like them Lorannah P.S. Big hi to everyone I met at the premiere, you made the day much more bearable

Sorry to be late as always Can you add me to your list???? Lorannah

ARRRGGGHHHH Hi all sorry I haven't been here to answer all the questions, but they put me on nights at work (yes I know that's what the song says -bizarrely true - although Geoffrey was sacked a while ago) and I haven't been able to keep up with the boards. Anyway, yes I found the details in a gold card leaflet (it was sent out to anyone with a gold card who has earned over a 100 points) - but seemed to be just a tacked in added thing, which I presumed would arrive in-stores soon. (I think someone mentioned that an e-mail was sent to stores - but nothing gets through to the workers at the moment) Apologies for the confusions. However, I don't think it should be a problem as nowhere in the leaflet (and I promise you I have read it from cover to cover) does it say that the competition is open only to gold card employees or that you need a gold card to enter. All it says is one entry per household. If your name is drawn - I think it would be difficult for them to check whether you have a gold card - as clearly the name on a card may not be the name on the entry form - as a toy store a lot of our competitions will be entered by children and they won't have cards, but their parents will - so I think it is more likely that they will phone or e-mail for confirmation of a card number. IF you do recieve such correspondence you can tell them that the competition was shown to you by a friend and that it was nowhere stated that you need a gold card - if they then quibble about you winning, tell them that the competition must surely then constitute as false advertising and you're willing to take it to a higher body. (I don't think they will be willing to risk this - after all if one set of items is under the wrong price, trading standards can charge £5,000 for every item under the price - I dread to think what false advertising would cost). Alternatively there is still time to apply for a gold card, all you need to do is go into your local store, ask at customer services for a gold card form and fill it in - it takes about 2-5 minutes and costs nothing - and then you'll have a number to give them. I'm sorry again, I really didn't realise that it was only a gold card thing (if you want to look at it from a positive - a lot less people will have entered - especially as a lot of people just bin the letters without opening them) Sorry Lorannah

OK... It's been interesting reading this thread and I just wanted to add a few thoughts. As far as I can remember in the books Draco's hair wasn't gelled back and in a large section of the HP fandom the fact that Draco's hair was gelled back in the film caused similar distress as has been shown here. As for the muggle clothing - it's mentioned several times throughout the book that the Wizarding children often wear muggle clothing like in GoF it says about The Weasleys "their children might don Muggle clothing during the holidays, but Mr and Mrs Weasley usually wore long robes" I got the impression it was a young persons craze to wear muggle clothing, which is why the adults were having some problems - but even then many of the adults would have to have at least one set of muggle clothing - all the parents of students must have some to take them to Kings Cross Station - otherwise muggles would have noticed something. Ok, that's only referring to the holidays - but if Harry's shopping has shown us anything - a lot of the students only have 3 sets of robes, plus in certain years a set of dress robes. Wearing only three outfits day in day out is going to cause a lot of wear (my two uniforms only lasted nine months, with me wearing them only a few hours a day five days a week), so even giving that magical cloth probably surpasses ours, I think it would make sense for them to wear other outfits outside classes. Plus, I always hated having to wear my school uniform and was glad to get out of it whenever I could, and I think at least some of the students must be the same - and then with the growing number of muggle-borns, the popular fashions for each would probably mingle a bit (and don't forget Weasley Jumpers - not what we'd call wizard clothing exactly). even in OotP Harry's 'best' clothes for the hearing are jeans and t-shirt. I think it's completely likely that they would wear muggle clothing - and if you think about it, in the first two films we saw them in muggle clothing anyway. If I'm remembering right - when they have their detention in the forest, Hermione at least is wearing muggle clothes, all Alfonso has done is modernised it from the fifties style, which is more in fitting with the books which are set in the nineties. As for new characters - for all we know JKR could just have given him some of the unamed students names and he's just given the extras those names. I'm sure there are still lots of students we haven't met, especially in Slytherin house which Harry continues having little interest in. So far off the top of my head in Harry and Draco's year I can think of male: Draco,Crabbe and Goyle, female: Millicent, Pansy, unknown: Blaise - which isn't very many, so I suspect there are probably some we haven't been introduced to. After all in OotP we met several people from Harry's year we hadn't heard of before. Anyway, I'm totally confused by the numbers in the shcool - recently JKR said there were 1000 students at Hogwarts - but if you look at Gryffindors, in Harrys year their are only 8 students, times that by 7 years - that's only 56, which when multiplied by four houses doesn't even reach a quarter of that amount. Even with huge variation between the numbers in different years and houses it seems hard to believe it could reach 1000. Anyone have any theories about this. As for Sirius, it's weird I always completely pictured him with tattoos - the motorbike, the rebellious nature, the fact that he was obviously one of the 'cool kids' at Hogwarts - plus the fact that I think he would have done anything to annoy his parents. But I thinks that's just a difference of vision. Anway I liked the fact that Alfonso gave him tattoos with special meanings to him - and the fact that Remus seems to have a similarly themed tattoo - it seemed to be some sort of pact thing between the marauders to me - like the LOTR elvish tattoos. Sorry for rambling so much Lorannah

Oooohhh lots of questions To be honest I don't know, though I think Spike's Dream Date is probably right and they might not open letters. Sadly not - we're about as computerised as a slug and the web site seems to have very little to do with the actual stores. However, if I hear differently I'll tell you all straight away. December 1st - and I should have mentioned earlier that it's one entry per household, sorry. But if you have siblings/friends who live seperately from you you could always borrow their address (make sure you ask permission first though.) Hope that helps. Also while on the subject of Toys 'R's Us - don't buy the extended DVDs from their as last year they had the normal FOTR EE priced at 44.99 (they thought it was the boxed set - silly people) and I have my doubts that they'll have worked out the difference yet. Lorannah

Well, I'm glad you're all going to have a go (though if you win you do realise I'm going to make you write a second by second account of everything for me) - as for me I'm just going to keep my eyes open for any other competitions. I can't give you an exact date as Headquarters deal with what goes on which truck (so when it arrives it's a surprise, just like opening presents on Christmas - except they're other peoples presents and you're not supposed to play with them ) But we've just sent our loyalty card catalogues out and they come with a great little ROTK book (which is where I got the competition from) and inside it lists Trivial Pursuit (£39.99), Monopoly (29.99), The Return of the King Board Game (19.99) and Lord of the Rings Labyrinth (14.99) as all being available from November, so they'll probably be in any day now. Once they turn up they'll go straight on the shelves. If you like, I could post an update when I get ours in - it won't be exactly the same time in every store (the biggest ones will get them first) but it shouldn't be too long between their deliveries. Weirdly the Monopoly is listed as being a Toys 'R' Us exclusive I think maybe I know too much about this stuff... Rhian

Ok all, Well Toys 'R' Us are running a competition to win a set of 4 tickets to the UK premiere of Return of the King in London on 11th December. As well as the tickets the prize includes return travel for a family of four (two adults and two children under 12 years - although as the actual tickets to the premiere aren't specified you don't have to use this mix of ages), one nights hotel accomodation and £30 worth of taxi fares and four runners up will win Collectible Balrog figures. Anyway as I work for the company, I can't enter but I can at least tell all of you about it as I'd love someone from the boards to win. So to enter you need to send the answer to the following question with your name, address, daytime telephone number and e-mail address on the back of a postcard to 'The Lord of the Rings Competition, Geoffrey House, Vanwell Business Park, Vanwall Road, Maidenhead, SL6 4UB' QUESTION: On what date is 'The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King' released in UK Cinemas? Good luck Lorannah P.S. UK Toys 'R' Us's also now have large in-store displays featuring large cardboard pictures of Frodo, Sam, Gandalf, Legolas, Gimli, Merry and Pippin and large standees of Frodo, Gollum and Aragorn riding Brego - beautiful and if you have a store near you worth having a look at.

Absolute classics, but I prefer her Harry Potter stuff. Lorannah

Can I tag along again???? If I manage to reschedule my shifts that is... Lorannah

Darn it Well I never said posting links was, hopefully you should see it if you follow this link: Click the second picture I knew I shouldn't mention fiddling with Andy in front of you two - anyway I was thinking of the 'Rock 'N' Roll' shot - still want me to try it? Lorannah

Because you asked for it: The Hobbits I'm not really happy with it yet, but it'll be a while before I have a chance to work on it more, so I thought I'd post it anyway. Must say I'm more in awe of Clancy than ever. BTW... you still haven't e-mailed me that picture of Andy you wanted me to have a fiddle with. Love Lorannah

Ummm.... better late than never Here's my pictures: Lorannah's Pics And here are my friend's: Alix's Pics Just LOTR people I'm afraid - hope you like them Lorannah mmmmm..... large LOTR standees are arriving in the next few days

It wasn't exactly a movie - it was a TV show starring a well loved British star - John Thaw, who is sadly no longer with us. I believe it was three or four hour long episodes (though I can't remember it was so long ago now), and was set in a small village in Nazi occupied France, and charted the affect of the occupation upon the occupants - as well as the contrasting positive effect of the lead character Renard (Thaw). It was available on video at the time, but it's been deleted since. Recently they have started re-releasing a lot of John Thaws best work so hopefully Monsignour Renard will be brought out again soon (it is still available on Amazon and e-bay sometimes). Dominic did a brilliant job in it, and if you manage to find a copy buy it - because honestly I think it's his best pre-LOTR role (and I loved Geoffrey). Actually I've got a press clipping from the time somewhere, where they printed a short quote from him saying, his next job was going out to New Zealand to film LOTR and how he was really excited about it, I'll have to dig it out and check there wasn't a picture. Lorannah

I work at a Toys 'R' Us store, and I've just heard that our new feature wall will be a Lord of the Rings one. The feature walls are somewhere between 8-12 feet in length and takes the entire height of the wall - so yep pretty huge. And usually (in the past we've done Star Wars, Harry Potter and at the moment The Fimbles) it includes large standees (often larger than life and usually specific to T'R'U) as well as backgrounds to make a sort of 3D picture and according to those in the know the LOTR one looks brilliant. Sadly company policy is that we can't give any promo stuff out (phooey) and at the moment I haven't heard when it will arrive, but I can't wait... Sorry, if this is spam but I'm unusually excited Lorannah

Not to mention the critically aclaimed Ice Storm and he has more recently been selecting more thoughtful and explorative projects such as the adaptation of 'Bumblebee Flies Anyway' or James Tobak's innovative 'Black and White' rather than picking the more popular teen or action roles. I suspect what you meant more was that the only other famous film was 'The Faculty' but popularity isn't always everything- and I often find with the more established and respected actors that their most famous roles aren't their best. I'd also like to agree with Yelts-Lass Andy Serkis is already a very successful actor and I doubt that the roles will dry up because of what is generally considered an excellent performance. As for the comments about the casts future - as far as I'm aware only a few of the Star Wars cast has gone on to have critically or even popularly successul career since. For those like Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan who I guess you could call emerging actors - it's obviously too early to know what their futures will hold and I suspect it will depend very much on the roles they choose now. Billy Boyd has already of course been signed up for a new 'large' movie in the form of 'Master and Commander' and from what I saw of his career prior to LOTR, I would suspect that he has a great future as a character actor along the lines of someone like Ian Hart (in my opinion one of the most underappreciated (or perhaps I should say unoticed) actors in Britain today who always produces an excellent and completely believeable performance). Dominic Monaghan also produced a very noteworthy performance several years ago in a programme called 'Monsignor Renard' with John Thaw that at the time gained him a lot of attention - I suspect if he hadn't left to film LOTR he might now be a well established actor in British television. Just a few thoughts. Perhaps it would have been better to ask for more fans from your fandom, rather than less from someone elses Lorannah

I've got to agree with you these would be great and I think work commitments permitting Michael Palin and the two Terry's might be willing to do it. God help them if they got Stephen - I would be a jibbering wreck the whole weekend. Though not because of Blade I must admit - I just love 'Backbeat' and he was brilliant in that. On that point Ian Hart or Gary Bakewell would be great for me too - and you could put them down as 'Harry Potter' and 'Neverwhere' *sighs* If they turned up - I would probably be distracted from my usual LOTR madness Lorannah

At the moment I think they aren't but New Line are releasing them as cinema reels quite soon. The plan at the moment is to allow cinemas to show the FOTR: Extended Edition between December 5th and 11th and the TTT: Extended Edition between December 12th and 15th. Then some cinemas will also be showing both extended films one after another on Tuesday 16th December culminating in the first showing of ROTK. Sounds brilliant, and I'm just hoping my local cinema will be one of those doing the showing. What would be really cool at the weekend is if the cinema could attach the new ROTK trailer to the film (which is wonderful) - but as most cinemas seem to have been sent only 3 copies and attaching them would take two of those out of action - it's probably not possible. OK, I'm far too excited about this weekend : Lorannah

I thought it was only as young as the person you feel? So you just need to go and find yourself a young person. Lorannah

Awww... thank you so much, I jus thope I get some goods one this time. As for the montage, once ROTK is out properly I'm hoping to a similar thing on a larger scale - one colour for each film. Lorannah

I can understand that it will be difficult for the guests, they will be signing for days on end and to expect much more than a general signature would seem greedy, but I agree a comment can make it so much more special. My most precious autographs are from Michael Palin (Monty Python), even though I got him to sign three things, he took the time to write a different comment in each (which had to do with what i was getting signed) and made sure he had my name right. Reading what he wrote now takes me right back to the few minutes I got to spend with him - wonderful memories. I can also only imagine how treasured the copies of Lord of the Rings and his other works that Tolkien signed in Elvish must be to their owners. Luckily in most cases these days celbrities perfer to do personalised named) autographs, as they're are less likely to be sold on that way. Lorannah