The wrath of TORN...

[emotionalvampire]

I missed that rumour

[krisg]

yeah and how many people told you Orlando Bloom would be turning up?

none

[Cushy]

Well you know I heard that off quite a few people so it must have been true as the story never changed once.

[Miss T]

It now seems very strange that it is now being reported on the net that this happened - it also seems strange that it is the same story every time.

 

why is that strange? someone heard something and then posted the story on line? erm not strange at all. Just because you hear something in real life and then read it online does not make it fact!

[emotionalvampire]

I also heard that Arnie was over here because some of the guys there are from California

[Katchoo]

Hi everyone,

                    Thanks for all your kind words. It is indeed very frustrating when a site such as the one ring net decides to report things in the way that they have. In particular, Steve and Ian's reports seem like they are just trying to find the bad in everything and to make out that the weekend was a total disaster. Sure there were some problems, and I have no problem admitting that, but to have nothing good to say at all  just shows the story that they wanted to report. I also believe that Ian should grow up, as I know that he has an ulterior motive for acting the way he has. It is plain childish, and now I am sure that he feels by attempting to destroy Collectormania on One Ring Net he is getting his own back. Oh well.

 

And just so you know, no-one was assaulted at Collectormania at all!!!! I will be contacting TORn regarding this to get them to remove the statement that someone was assaulted, as they know it is not true.

Amen

 

Personally, I was sick of Ian Smith at the last event, climbing over people in the screening to take rapid flash photographs and generally getting in the way of people who were actually there to see the guys, rather than boost their own website traffic. He doesn't even stay for the films! This time he left again before the film started, and after everyone else in the theatre stayed in their seats and didn't move down to the front to take photos (mine were pretty bad as I got there too late to get a front seat, my problem no-one elses) he moved from his seat behind us and went right down the front.

 

I wasn't there in the centre on Sunday so can't comment on anything that went on there, but the Monday seemed to go pretty smoothly to me, and before anyone accuses me of being a pubescent teenager who only posts to defend Showmasters, I'm not. I'm 35 and have been to all of the Collectormania events so far, this one wasn't perfect but it was nowhere near the fiasco some people are making it out to be.

Edited October 8, 2003 by Katchoo

[vamps!]

Well you know I heard that off quite a few people so it must have been true as the story never changed once.

Dont' beleive everything you hear huns, if its too good to be true, you can bet your bottom dollor it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I like the way the subject got changed from abuse to rumours though!!!!! Guess there is no evidence after all, confirmation from Showmasters is good enough for me!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I can't believe your all still bitching about it, lets just learn from it and get on with planning C5!!!!!!!!!!! Man I can't wait for C5 - hehe Showmasters is it way too early to ask for some more guest announcements????

 

Yes it is I hear you say - oh well, I'll start me nagging next week then, I suppose I could let you have at least one week off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

WOOHOO ROLL ON C5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AmericanPixie]

I don't like TORN. Never have. They like to complain.

[Cushy]

Well you know I heard that off quite a few people so it must have been true as the story never changed once.

Dont' beleive everything you hear huns, if its too good to be true, you can bet your bottom dollor it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I like the way the subject got changed from abuse to rumours though!!!!! Guess there is no evidence after all, confirmation from Showmasters is good enough for me!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I can't believe your all still bitching about it, lets just learn from it and get on with planning C5!!!!!!!!!!! Man I can't wait for C5 - hehe Showmasters is it way too early to ask for some more guest announcements????

 

Yes it is I hear you say - oh well, I'll start me nagging next week then, I suppose I could let you have at least one week off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

WOOHOO ROLL ON C5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vamps I meant at C4; coming to meet the guys.

[vamps!]

Well you know I heard that off quite a few people so it must have been true as the story never changed once.

Dont' beleive everything you hear huns, if its too good to be true, you can bet your bottom dollor it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I like the way the subject got changed from abuse to rumours though!!!!! Guess there is no evidence after all, confirmation from Showmasters is good enough for me!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I can't believe your all still bitching about it, lets just learn from it and get on with planning C5!!!!!!!!!!! Man I can't wait for C5 - hehe Showmasters is it way too early to ask for some more guest announcements????

 

Yes it is I hear you say - oh well, I'll start me nagging next week then, I suppose I could let you have at least one week off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

WOOHOO ROLL ON C5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vamps I meant at C4; coming to meet the guys.

I know what you meant, which is why i said if it sounds too good to be true then it is!!!!!!!!!!

[irascian]

Hi everyone,

                    Thanks for all your kind words. It is indeed very frustrating when a site such as the one ring net decides to report things in the way that they have. In particular, Steve and Ian's reports seem like they are just trying to find the bad in everything and to make out that the weekend was a total disaster. Sure there were some problems, and I have no problem admitting that, but to have nothing good to say at all  just shows the story that they wanted to report. I also believe that Ian should grow up, as I know that he has an ulterior motive for acting the way he has. It is plain childish, and now I am sure that he feels by attempting to destroy Collectormania on One Ring Net he is getting his own back. Oh well.

 

And just so you know, no-one was assaulted at Collectormania at all!!!! I will be contacting TORn regarding this to get them to remove the statement that someone was assaulted, as they know it is not true.

Did you actually READ the report???!!! For the record, and as indicated in CAPITAL LETTERS right at the start of the report it had absolutely nothing to do with TORn although they did post a link to my report, just as they posted links to other reports.

 

If the report is "just plain childish" what on earth is posting nonsense like "nothing good to say" (did you read my comments about the previous event, about the second panel, about the press panel? I also pointed out that fans at the screenings were happy as were those who got autographs, and went on to point out that I had no way of guaging whehter the complaints I heard were from a minority or a majority, and I tried not to raise my own real heckles about the way one of the two of you (the one not called Mark!) just kept lying to the press people that I happened to be tagging along with!

 

I also gave you guys a fantastic write-up of Collectormania 3 in the official magazine - is THAT what you mean by "nothing good to say"? Sheesh! And please please please share this "ulterior motive" with me and everybody else here. Put up or shut up guys or you'll look very foolish indeed!!! You criticise me for "being plain childish" and then cast comments like that around. Do the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" mean anything to you?

 

Wouldn't it be better to actually answer or deny the points I made if they'r so obviously wrong?

 

What is your answer for the American lady who'd flown in only for Saturday and Sunday and was told she couldn't even get her gift to Sean Astin never mind an autographic ticket, despite arriving before the advertised opening time?

 

Or how about the guy who claimed to have queued in the car park since midnight only to find when the door he'd queued with other fans by opened at 10am there were no tickets left because you only opened one door on the other side of the building that they couldn't see?

 

What I didn't say in the piece (because I didn't want to make it too long a rant) was what I will now say here...

 

I was told on the Saturday at the Press Desk that the hobbits would be signing at 8.30am for "the real fans who were likely to queue before the general public". I was also asked to keep this information to myself. It made sense so why then did the man not called Mark tell "the real fans" at the film screening the doors wouldn't open until 10am. I'm hoping it's because you panicked, realised too many people were coming early and tried to throw people off the scent, but would like to hear your real explanation!

 

On to the "personal" stuff I didn't bring up in the report - is this the stuff you mean by "ulterior motives"?.....

 

As you know I wanted to do a favour for my friend Brian Sibley who is writing Peter Jackson's biography. He wrote a letter to Sean vouching for me and asking if it would be at all possible for him to answer a few questions Brian had written down for me to ask. Is this the "ulterior motive" you are referring to??! I didn't want this for myself (really I didn't), but because Brian has been a really good friend I was VERY keen to deliver for him. Sean being a director himself and having left New Zealand by the time Brian got down there, it made sense to try and get his take as a director for the upcoming official biography.

 

Mark did a great job in getting my letter to Sean, and in trying to get an answer for me. I was very happy with the way he did that.

 

What I wasn't at all happy with was the way the one not called Mark lied to me when I asked what the situation was. "Sean's read your letter. He's keen to do it after the panel tonight. I'll collect you outside the screening" was, slightly paraphrased, what you told me around 2.30pm. So why then did I not believe you and rather than risk it go and check, first with Mark (who told me a very different story about how Sean wanted "his people" to check the questions, that an email from Brian direct to Sean would be needed and that there was no possibility of anything happening at Collectormania but that something would be sorted out via email direct with Brian)? Answer: because you'd lied so often to myself and press members all day long we all knew we couldn't believe anything you said. I was in a situation where I had one guy saying "It's arranged" and the other saying "you need to get Brian to email us and Sean". What was I supposed to tell Brian? I checked the story with Sean himself, he confirmed what Mark had told me (ie that the one not called Mark had outright lied to me --- again!) and I was happy to tell Brian that Sean assured me it would happen just not at Collectormania - so I was generally happy that it looked like Brian would get what I'd come to get for him, if not with having more time wasted with lies.

 

What were those other lies? The Observer and SFX journalists were invited to "lunch with Dom and Elijah" to do press. I was invited along as photographer for The Observer. I cancelled lunch with friends and then we stood in a glass-lined corridor which acted like a huge maginifying glass for the sun (we didn't have a partition to shield us like the guests) for an hour and a half at the allocated booth exit, only to see Dom and Elijah escorted away by another route. Phone calls were made. "I'm coming back to pick you up" the one not called Mark advised. We waited another hour! Then Dom and Elijah returned ... to commence signings. We'd missed lunch, spent two and a half hours sweating in a corridor for nothing and the one not called Mark's only explanation was "I wasn't here - I didn't know what was happening!" and then a shift in blame to the cast saying that they had done so much press already they preferred to give what little time they had to the fans. No wonder the ladies from SFX got fed up and left!

 

As I said in the web log report you did try and save the day with a very angry (from what I saw) press corps by arranging the evening informal session, which saved your bacon in many ways but was not enough for some who had been promised far more (I'd been promised nothing so it was a bonus - I was just pissed at the wasted day in teh corridor and then queueing to see Sean to see which of the two of you I could believe!) . As an example, of what you guys promised I heard it was YOU guys who contacted TORN promising them interviews with all the cast members not them contacting you asking for interviews. So they stumped up the air fare for their European rep to fly in from Holland and the hotel bill based on that and were, not unnaturally, pissed off it didn't happen. By your own admittance the cast flew in Saturday morning and were tied up all Sunday and Monday doing signings, so why keep promising the press corps interviews you knew you didn't have time for? Is this what you regard as the best way to get good Public Relations?

 

Press issues aside (I hadn't gone to be a press person so most of this stuff was irrelevant until THe Observer asked me to help out) I felt ripped off after queuing for some time to pay £40 for two autographs and a five second encounter that involved a gruff "no personalisation" warning and a "next please" as I handed the photo's over. Other than that I had no axe to grind.

 

For the record I often get adverse reaction to my web logs because I say what I think, not what people want to hear. In this particular case I've had a single email of complaint (from one of the American party at the panel on the Saturday) and 5 rants that make my web log look like a paen of praise by comparison.

 

Your response to an honest report, and a high number of complaints is not only disappointing, it shows little chance of improvement for the future. As I said in my report I think you owe the ladies from SFX an apology. And I think the one not named Mark needs to learn that if you tell the truth people will cope with it - if you keep lying all you do is hack people off.

 

Searching to find something positive to end this note on I would say that you did a great job on getting the guys in the first place and also a great job on their security and keeping them safe.

 

Good luck with Collectormania 5.

Edited October 8, 2003 by irascian

[AmericanPixie]

I've read alot of your 'weblogs' and no matter what, you always seem to complain about SOMETHING! I admit you take great photos, but you complain too much.

 

Complain, complain, complain.

Try being a little more positive in your reports, there is way to much negativity in the world as it is. Plus, you should be happy you can even attend these things! Be happy they actually have these activities for the fans.

[showmasters]

Hi everyone,

                    Thanks for all your kind words. It is indeed very frustrating when a site such as the one ring net decides to report things in the way that they have. In particular, Steve and Ian's reports seem like they are just trying to find the bad in everything and to make out that the weekend was a total disaster. Sure there were some problems, and I have no problem admitting that, but to have nothing good to say at all  just shows the story that they wanted to report. I also believe that Ian should grow up, as I know that he has an ulterior motive for acting the way he has. It is plain childish, and now I am sure that he feels by attempting to destroy Collectormania on One Ring Net he is getting his own back. Oh well.

 

And just so you know, no-one was assaulted at Collectormania at all!!!! I will be contacting TORn regarding this to get them to remove the statement that someone was assaulted, as they know it is not true.

so what about the Father with the 7 year old girl who was so dissapointed that she didn't stop crying - he visits the complaints box - and gets attitude from the SM person and thumps the bloke - are you saying that didn't happen????

To be absolutley clear about this, I am saying that this DID NOT happen!

[irascian]

Personally, I was sick of Ian Smith at the last event, climbing over people in the screening to take rapid flash photographs and generally getting in the way of people who were actually there to see the guys, rather than boost their own website traffic. He doesn't even stay for the films! This time he left again before the film started, and after everyone else in the theatre stayed in their seats and didn't move down to the front to take photos (mine were pretty bad as I got there too late to get a front seat, my problem no-one elses) he moved from his seat behind us and went right down the front.

 

Heh, let's not let the truth get in the way of anything shall we, eh?

 

At the last event I wasn't behind anyone. I was in the back row with the aisle directly in front of me. I did indeed vacate my seat and move down the aisle to get some shots - for all of about 5 minutes of the panel, having cleared with the main desk first that this would be OK. My aching back from stooping to ensure I didn't block anyone;s view while using the aisle says I didn't block anyone and I resent your blatent lie that I clambered over anyone or indeed anything! I didn't do it at this event and I didn't do it any previous ones either. Why resort to lying to justify your not liking me?

 

For the record, I always pick an aisle seat, which unfortunately at Collectormania always ends up being only available in the back row because the policy of not letting people push in the queue totally falls apart when you enter a half-empty cinema to find all the seats have coats on them to reserve them for friends who haven't queued as long as you have. Another example of the organisers' attempts to be fair but ones which failed because it wasn't followed through properly (just like signing ticket allocation that didn't care a fig about people pushing in autograph queues but insisted on one ticket per person after a couple of hundred of Dom's had been handed out on an "as many as you like" basis before people from Elijah's queue complained).

 

Do you know anything about web traffic? It costs money to host web sites and the money goes up as your hit rate goes up. Good job I'm a commercial concern, get free tickets to events instead of insisting on paying for them as an ordinary punter even when free tickets are offered (ask another show or TORn if you require proof) and can cover the costs by what I sell on my web site. Ooops. I don't sell anything so I must want to boost my web traffic to lose more money. My bad! Please help me save money by not visiting my web site.

 

Of course I don't stay for the films. I like to delude myself that I've got a life. As stated in the web log I am bored witless by seeing a movie that I know line by line already after seven viewings. Why on earth would I want to be so sad as just watch something I know off by heart again and again and again? I'd rather watch something new! I left TTT early by the way because the organisers told us we had to be in the press briefing room by 7.30pm or we would not be let in as the doors would be shut then. So annoyingly I missed the last 10 minutes of the panel I really wanted to see. Of course I should have learnt my lesson - we were kept for 40 minutes in the foyer and I could have happily seen the end of the panel and still had plenty of time to get my gear ready.

[irascian]

I've read alot of your 'weblogs' and no matter what, you always seem to complain about SOMETHING! I admit you take great photos, but you complain too much.

 

Complain, complain, complain.

Try being a little more positive in your reports, there is way to much negativity in the world as it is. Plus, you should be happy you can even attend these things! Be happy they actually have these activities for the fans.

I shall try and follow your wonderful example!

[The Flying Gribble]

I've read alot of your 'weblogs' and no matter what, you always seem to complain about SOMETHING!  I admit you take great photos, but you complain too much.

 

Complain, complain, complain.

Try being a little more positive in your reports, there is way to much negativity in the world as it is.  Plus, you should be happy you can even attend these things!  Be happy they actually have these activities for the fans.

Hmm. I was just about to leap to Ians defence, but on second thoughts he's quite capable of looking after himself! Seconds out .....

[fak]

I've read alot of your 'weblogs' and no matter what, you always seem to complain about SOMETHING!  I admit you take great photos, but you complain too much.

 

Complain, complain, complain.

Try being a little more positive in your reports, there is way to much negativity in the world as it is.  Plus, you should be happy you can even attend these things!  Be happy they actually have these activities for the fans.

Hmm. I was just about to leap to Ians defence, but on second thoughts he's quite capable of looking after himself! Seconds out .....

Me too TFG

[Rachiepachie2001]

Well I think I've read one too many reports about Collectormaina.

 

But because I wasn't there, I don't really have much to say, but one thing

 

CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG?! Let's stop badgering each other and just enjoy the fact that C4 happened and is over. And let's gear up for C5.

 

Make Love, Not War!

 

Cheers!

[Katchoo]

At the last event I wasn't behind anyone. I was in the back row with the aisle directly in front of me. I did indeed vacate my seat and move down the aisle to get some shots - for all of about 5 minutes of the panel, having cleared with the main desk first that this would be OK. My aching back from stooping to ensure I didn't block anyone;s view while using the aisle says I didn't block anyone and I resent your blatent lie that I clambered over anyone or indeed anything! I didn't do it at this event and I didn't do it any previous ones either. Why resort to lying to justify your not liking me?

 

Ok, so you had permission, that's fair enough. Blatant lie? Sorry, but no. When I was at the Collectormania 3 screening there were a couple of girls who were sitting in the aisle, you did climb over them, and you did block the view. Perhaps the girls shouldn't have been in the aisle, but that's up to Collectormania to enforce that. As for liking you, I'm quite sure it doesn't bother you whether I do or not. I have read your reports and as someone else has said there is a lot of complaining. Personally, I'm a film fan in general as well as a LotR fan, and your comment "Why on earth would I want to be so sad as just watch something I know off by heart again and again and again? I'd rather watch something new!" just about shows up the contempt you obviously hold for people who do want to watch it.

 

As to web traffic, yes thank you I'm well aware of how it works. I also know that allying a website to another that has a great deal of traffic brings in more users, and yes I am aware it costs more. But there's no such thing as free publicity is there? Or maybe there is...

[fak]

At the last event I wasn't behind anyone. I was in the back row with the aisle directly in front of me. I did indeed vacate my seat and move down the aisle to get some shots - for all of about 5 minutes of the panel, having cleared with the main desk first that this would be OK. My aching back from stooping to ensure I didn't block anyone;s view while using the aisle says I didn't block anyone and I resent your blatent lie that I clambered over anyone or indeed anything! I didn't do it at this event and I didn't do it any previous ones either. Why resort to lying to justify your not liking me?

 

Ok, so you had permission, that's fair enough. Blatant lie? Sorry, but no. When I was at the Collectormania 3 screening there were a couple of girls who were sitting in the aisle, you did climb over them, and you did block the view. Perhaps the girls shouldn't have been in the aisle, but that's up to Collectormania to enforce that. As for liking you, I'm quite sure it doesn't bother you whether I do or not. I have read your reports and as someone else has said there is a lot of complaining. Personally, I'm a film fan in general as well as a LotR fan, and your comment "Why on earth would I want to be so sad as just watch something I know off by heart again and again and again? I'd rather watch something new!" just about shows up the contempt you obviously hold for people who do want to watch it.

 

As to web traffic, yes thank you I'm well aware of how it works. I also know that allying a website to another that has a great deal of traffic brings in more users, and yes I am aware it costs more. But there's no such thing as free publicity is there? Or maybe there is...

Um, if people were sitting in the aisle, breaking all kinds of health and safety rules. then I'm afraid they don't have any right to complain about being clambered over - what if there was some kind of emergency?

[Katchoo]

Quite probably yes, but as I said I consider that to be up to Collectormania or I shoud say, sorry Showmasters to enforce.

[showmasters]

Ian,

As someone who is involved with the press I find it amusing that you were unable to find out what my name was, as I was there all day every day. My name is Jason Joiner, rather than the one who is not Mark. Mark is in fact Mark!

 

I think that by your statement you miss one fundamental point, that the event was not run to enable the press to get yet another story and pictures from Elijah Wood. In fact it was an opportunity for the fans to meet their favourite stars.

 

And as to the lady from SFX, as she had claimed that I had given her permission, which I had not, actually stating to my face " Jason Joiner has given me permission ", not realising that I was Jason Joiner. I could not believe the extent of the fabrication of her lies, just to get an interview with Elijah. This is just one of hundreds of queries or incidents that happened over the weekend for me, which I coped with to the best of my ability. On this point, maybe you'll see another view now.

 

If you would like to discuss your views on Collectormania 4, then please feel free to join us at 2pm this Saturday outside Costa Coffee, where we have accepted an open invitation in another thread, to meet with people and discuss the event, and how to improve things in the future.

 

Jason Joiner

[irascian]

Ian,

      As someone who is involved with the press I find it amusing that you were unable to find out what my name was, as I was there all day every day. My name is Jason Joiner, rather than the one who is not Mark. Mark is in fact Mark!

 

I

I know who Mark is. I could not recall whether your name was Jason or James so it seemed easier to admit I couldn't remember (and couldn't find the tag with your name on - I've just found it now!) by calling you "the one who is not Mark".

 

By the way I didn't speak to the SFX girls at all, just stood next to them in that sweltering corridor. I was just aware of the complaints from the other guys (who weren't waiting with us but had been promised interviews they weren't getting) and the fact that these girls were in the same sweltering heat we were, waiting for a long time. The other guys got the "compensation" of the press panel in the evening - these girls didn't, which is why I said I thought you owed them an apology. SFX is a magazine that I would have thought had a readership that comprised your core audience and to treat them so poorly cannot make good business sense. Hiding behind a "the fans are more important" statement is churlish when it's you that have asked the press to come and you that have been responsible for the bad feeling. Like I said if you'd been honest from the word 'go' I don't think you'd have had any problems.

 

As for the invitation.... I'm afraid I'm not prepared to incur even more expense and time just trying to help you guys get your act together when all that needs saying has been said, but is being ignored. You have a perfectly good forum here to respond to the specific points I've made. You've chosen to ignore them and just throw children's playground taunts like "grow up" or imply I had ulterior motives in reporting fairly and honestly the event as I saw it and as others reported it to me.

 

On other points raised here, I heard the "father got throttled when he went for a bodyguard who pushed his son out the way" at Collectormania itself on the Sunday, but didn't repeat the story, verbally or in writing, and have no idea whether it was true or not, but do not understand why somebody would make such a story up.

 

I genuinely wish you guys success for the future. I enjoyed Collectormania 3 and think your unique approach (making the event free and putting it in a shopping centre to attract the casual passer by who might normally run a mile from such an event) is a great one. You also clearly work very hard at getting guests that others have tried hard to get and failed at. I personally think The Lord of the Rings has got too big now, been hyped too much, and has far too much of a mass teen following for anybody to cope really well with the logistics that would make everyone happy. But your security was great and, for the most part, your volunteer staff made the best of a bad situation. But I believe you guys screwed up badly with some of the things you did and, frankly, still have no idea why you decided to adopt the "tell them lots of great things that aren't true to try and keep them happy" instead of just coming clean as to the real situation which, ultimately, we'd all have understood and been happy with.

 

Pax!

Edited October 8, 2003 by irascian

[Lurtz]

okay there is no point in me being coy about this...whilst at the event on Sunday I heard from 3 sets of people (whilst in line) that we got talking to that this had happened. This was not a game of Chinese whispers on the net after the event - but whilst we were there - if it came from one person i'd have ignored it but as the old saying goes - there is no smoke without fire!!

 

It now seems very strange that it is now being reported on the net that this happened - it also seems strange that it is the same story every time.

 

If it has been made up then it's a poor story but let's get the facts right and don't simply dismiss it.

I've been reading your remarks in the threads you began regarding Unorganised Chaos and An Open Invitation to ShowMasters. You brought up some valid points and you seem to be a very articulate person. However, you just lost credibility with this statement. If you were not a witness to the asault, then why take part in spreading the rumours? Somehow I can no longer take your posts seriously. I won't bother reading anymore in the above mentioned threads.

 

Have a nice day.