Little Miss Idiot Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 This thread has got way too personal from which started as a complaint about autograph prices for christ sake!, best just to let it drop and call it a day, the arguing could go on for months, I know ive been in a few God listen to me BuFF the voice of reason what will happen next raining frogs or something? Yes chicken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summersover Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 all this worry and slagging off each other. when people have had limbs and arms blown off recently. jeez ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSPG Autographs Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 My friend and I want to know why we bothered pre-ordering them from MSPG and paying £10 extra on top of the show prices.We did not mind at 1st as neither of us live in London and we only wanted 1 guest each anyway. So my friend pre ordered 2 items from LFACC and paid the £10 each extra making them £25 and £30 each for what she and I wanted. 1 week later MSPG are selling all the stuff from the show on EBAY at show prices - not a £1 more including the 2 shots we bought. We did not even want the top names - so they cannot use the excuse that we are is paying a presale price because the guests are so busy and they cannot guarantee to get them if the guest is so busy. We will never pre-order if this is the kind of thing that happens we might as well wait a week and buy them on Ebay at the show price if we cannot make it. Thats so unfair on your customers to have to pay more and then anyone who uses ebay can get the same thing cheaper than customers within a week of the show. Also I would guess with ebay fees you are getting less than the show price for the item. I know it is providing a service but it cheesed us both of seeing the photos we paid £20 more for on sale by MSGP within 5 days of the show at show price. We could not even choose the photo we wanted signed as they could not guarantee so they cannot use the excuse either. Without Prejudice Although I would have appreciated a direct approach from what would seem to be a disgruntled customer, I am happy to publicly advertise my companies policies in my transparent approach to business, in order to correctly inform everyone of what we do. The pre order service is offered to the public for those people unable to attend the shows either through illness, distance or personal reason. From the outside an uneducated assumption would lead people to believe that the cost for the service is steep and I believe quoted at 75%. If you take the charge and remove the VAT, Tax, forums members discount, that actually leaves approx 25% of the total charge, which then goes towards admin and handling, before, after and during the show. A point to note is that less than 1% of orders this time round were unpersonalised. So no we do not dump a pile of pictures to get them signed. It's a service! It's not there to make me rich! I personally put thousands into the showmasters shows and often underwrite the costs of getting guests to the shows, why? So that we can help Showmasters create the best shows out there, for the fans. The pre order idea was also brought in to help the fans. To the question and accusations that started this topic, I cannot comment on emmah's case as they have not contacted me in any way. My phone number is 0208 529 9353 and the office is open tomorrow at 9 AM My email is mick@mspgs.com If you are not happy I would suggest using either of these routes, to clarify your unhappiness direct with me. After sales, the vast majority as already stated were for personalised items, we do not list personalised items either on auction or on our web site. I list my own items on the auctions and my website, which I have paid for in full at the same price as everyone else, so if I decide to buy 50 or 100 then thats my choice. On the auctions we list as a start price, which can and may go up, so although they start at a price it is not necessarily the case it will finish there. I am not obliged to have answered a lot of the queries on an open forum, but people who know me, know that I hide from nothing, and can be approached if there is a problem. I am known as one of the fairest dealers out there, I never skirt round an issue. I will gladly answer any further queries concerning my company policies in my side of the forum, that is what it is there for. If I have missed anything, again I will answer in the other side. Thank you for reading Mick Spring Owner MSPG Autographs UACC European Membership Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mk Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 It involves me because 1. ChrisMK gave the same advice i did, this board is for C8 related stuff not complaints about a different company. 2. Pot calling the kettle black, why do you even bother hanging about if you dislike SM that much. 3. I think you're a complete moron and dislike you immensely. That easy enough for you to understand. Dear Lady, you have just proven the aptness of your username ! I was merely observing that ChrisMK always, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, shoots down other users in favour of a company's POV, be that SMs, MSPG or whomever. I remain of that opinion. Please go somewhere else with your meaningless playground namecalling. P.S. number 3 is not a reason. I side with the punter when I feel they're in the right and have a valid point. In this case, I don't... sure, it sucks a little, it's unfortunate, but it's not a thing for Showmasters and to me, it should be a private matter. If you go searching through my past posts (it's ok, I'm not expecting you to), you'll see I was critical of SM over the C6 party (that's one example off the top of my head). So try and be a little more careful with the generalisms will ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mk Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Chris MK is a perv that much has been fully established and verified. Let's not forget I admitted it to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mk Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Perhaps this 'complaint' would be best sent to MSGP in private? Just for the record, do you complain to high street shops if you buy something, then see the same thing discounted a short while later? If you are a customer of a retail store and they send you - as a customer - an offer and when you take up the offer you find within 24 hours they go and reduce the item - wouldnt you feel as if they were taking the **** out of you ?? How many high street shops would have complaints if they did that ?? I realise MPSG have responded now, but I want to reply to this point. Yes, it's annoying when you buy a DVD from say, HMV and then the next day you find they've started a sale and the DVD you bought is in it. Do I complain to them? No, it's just one of life's things..... as a wise old, mystical, Asain (probably) man once said... 'poo poo happens.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmah Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 Mick, With all due respect - there is no need for me to call you privately. The reason for a forum is to communicate with other forum members. If I phone you or email you and complain it does not help other forum members. "I list my own items on the auctions and my website, which I have paid for in full at the same price as everyone else, so if I decide to buy 50 or 100 then thats my choice". If you have paid the same price as people at the show and then list them at the same price and - as you say - the VAT, Tax and Ebay fees - are we to beleive that the item you paid £15 for and list at £14.99 with a buy it now of £19.99 again and again and again or on your site for £20 with the same VAT , TAX, then you make NO money ?? I am sure as a business person you cannot expect us to believe that. All I am asking is a little fairness If you charge £10 for a pre order and then list the same item £10 cheaper 2 days later on the auction or site then that sis my complaint. If you charge £5 " as a service " I dont think I or anyone would complain - but a £10 charge on a £10 or £15 autograph appears unfair. And for those people using the retail shops as examples of sales - sure HMV or M&S have a sale and it happens. But if it happened EVERY month after you buy an item would you put up with it ? With Collectormanias and LFCC'S thats 3 times a year and each time within a few days of the show the stock is on the internet cheaper and new customers are being ripped off paying a pre-order price for a " random " shot when they can buy a shot they like and can chose cheaper than that .... If people dont read this forums there is a button on the MSPG site that advertises the pre-orders so they r not to know they are being taken for £10. If everything is being personalised then I am totally wrong and am a 1%er ! Maybe you can charge £5 for UNPERSONALISED and £10 for PERSONALISED in future and I think people will not have a complaint - so maybe thats an idea ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mk Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 If you charge £5 " as a service " I dont think I or anyone would complain - but a £10 charge on a £10 or £15 autograph appears unfair. Just out of intrest, how much mark up do you think shops put on the goods they sell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheManTheMachine Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 This thread has got way too personal from which started as a complaint about autograph prices for christ sake!, best just to let it drop and call it a day, the arguing could go on for months, I know ive been in a few God listen to me BuFF the voice of reason what will happen next raining frogs or something? Yes chicken! Git! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mk Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 And for those people using the retail shops as examples of sales - sure HMV or M&S have a sale and it happens.But if it happened EVERY month after you buy an item would you put up with it ? It DOES happen to people month after month! The only time HMV DOESN'T have a sale, is the 4 weeks before Christmas! Do I buy stuff from there? Rarely! Do I post on the Showmasters forum that HMV screwed me... no! Showmasters aren't any more responsable for HMV, than they are for MPSG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted July 13, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 13, 2005 Mick already stated that it's a STARTING PRICE on eBay .. they often go up! I wouldn't be surprised if people paid MORE than you would on a pre-order price because bidding gets stupid on there and I've seen the kinda inflated prices that people pay! You'd be taking a chance waiting on an eBay auction to arise after a show and there's no guarantee you'd get what you wanted .. plus you wouldn't get it personalised! I don't have ANY issue with MSPG putting LEGIT autographs on eBay. Have you seen the amount of unrecognised dealers etc selling FAKES on there? Or others that do sell genuine ones but you never *quite* know whether to trust them or not? MSPG is a recognised verified name run by someone who is heavily involved in UACC and I'd rather see them selling the real deal than others profitting from it! Fact is that all businesses mark up to make profits. It's like when people say that autographs are too expensive from Showmasters events like it's some kinda charity case and they should give them away! People turn up to the Centre:MK and ask why the guests are charging! Well duh ... At the end of the day, if someone has a problem with the prices then no one is forcing them to pay them. It's your prerogative to take the chance and wait for an eBay auction or get a friend to buy them or whatever other avenues you wish to pursue. We all have a choice, and MSPG ain't making ya purchase from them, they're just offering a service! Ya might be able to cut a deal on the local market for discounts but it doesn't mean you can negotiate with every single business just because u don't like their prices. Search round, see what the best option is, and go with it. Mick's offered to talk to you, been up front about everything, and yet you say you still don't wanna talk to him. I can't see the guy being any fairer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mk Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Ya might be able to cut a deal on the local market for discounts but it doesn't mean you can negotiate with every single business just because u don't like their prices. Don't even go there.... I was in John Lewis with my Grandmother, when she started trying to haggle over the price of some garden furiture..... I was starting to walk away from her in shame, when i remembered she was in a wheelchair because of a swollen foot and had to go back...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted July 13, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 13, 2005 Don't even go there.... I was in John Lewis with my Grandmother, when she started trying to haggle over the price of some garden furiture..... I was starting to walk away from her in shame, when i remembered she was in a wheelchair because of a swollen foot and had to go back...... I never know whether to admire people like that for having the balls to even try it, or to be annoyed cuz I'd never do it so I don't want anyone else getting a discount! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mk Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Don't even go there.... I was in John Lewis with my Grandmother, when she started trying to haggle over the price of some garden furiture..... I was starting to walk away from her in shame, when i remembered she was in a wheelchair because of a swollen foot and had to go back...... I never know whether to admire people like that for having the balls to even try it, or to be annoyed cuz I'd never do it so I don't want anyone else getting a discount! I just know it's as embarrasing as nice try when your Gran does it..... <----------- This was the face made by the shop assistant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyT Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 "I list my own items on the auctions and my website, which I have paid for in full at the same price as everyone else, so if I decide to buy 50 or 100 then thats my choice". If you have paid the same price as people at the show and then list them at the same price and - as you say - the VAT, Tax and Ebay fees - are we to beleive that the item you paid £15 for and list at £14.99 with a buy it now of £19.99 again and again and again or on your site for £20 with the same VAT , TAX, then you make NO money ?? By and large, and as a simplification, tax is paid as a percentage, generally of gross profit. So if he sells everything at the price he paid for it, no he won't make a profit (indeed a loss after eBay fees). The "Buy it now" price is effectively five pounds more than what he paid for it, so anybody buying at that price immediately generates some profit for him. The starting price in the auctions is what he paid, so if anybody pays above that we're drifting into profit land again. True, he could end up with everybody waiting at auction and buying them at starting price or little more which would give him very little profit or possibly even a loss after fees, but the fact that the gentleman continues to do business on eBay and generally runs a successful (and admirably open and responsive) business suggests that his eBay enterprises are worthwhile, which in turn suggests he does sell on average for rather more than his cost price. And fair play to him for that - profit and entrepreneurialism should not be rude words, and he is after all taking a business risk so deserves to reap reward when he's succesful. (I think you'll also note that the postage costs are cheaper on pre-order than on eBay, so the saving, if there is any on eBay (at the final auction price), isn't as great as you think) I am sure as a business person you cannot expect us to believe that. Speaking as a professional business analyst/consultant, his explanation rings true and is very plausible - I'd be minded to suggest that you're overlooking/misunderstanding some of the facets of business tax and accounting. All I am asking is a little fairnessIf you charge £5 " as a service " I dont think I or anyone would complain - but a £10 charge on a £10 or £15 autograph appears unfair. Welcome to market forces - if that's what the market will pay, then that's likely to be the charge. Plus, having a "one mark-up for all prices" policy no doubt makes it easier and more efficient for his business. Bummer if you're only after "cheap" guests, but that's the way of the world. His extra charge gives you the option of personalisation, plus as good a guarantee as you'll get that you will get the autograph you want - there's no guarantee that he'll have any on eBay after the show - and even if he does, no guarantee that you'll actually manage to get one. Some of what you pay for pre-order is for increased certainty that you'll get your desired squiggle. Finally, it's well-known within these forums (by anybody who reads them to any depth) that the MSPG price is £10 more than the show price. It's in the FAQs (I'm fairly sure), it's certainly in the pinned "Info for Newbies" thread, and it usually comes up in at least one or two other threads before the show. If you leap in and buy without researching the market properly first, to an extent you're at fault. (Of course the amount of market research you may want to do for a £25 or £30 purchase is up to you). I ended up paying £30 too much for an easyJet ticket a couple of years back - I just resolved to sharpen my act up, plus got a couple of laughs out of it (at my expense) down the pub - did me a lot better than just moaning about it. And for those people using the retail shops as examples of sales - sure HMV or M&S have a sale and it happens.But if it happened EVERY month after you buy an item would you put up with it ? As other people have pointed out, a lot of those retailers have near-perpetual sales on - I very rarely venture more than 15 feet inside the door of my local HMV, since all the sale stock is right inside the door, and once you venture past that, you're into the racks of their usual narrow selection of overpriced rubbish. M&S advertise a sale fairly frequently and seem to actually have one more frequently, and as for some retailers (electronics ones and furniture ones spring particularly to mind), I think that the last time you could walk in there and not see a sale on was probably during the reign of Edward VII And may I suggest that you never think of buying a car, because you can virtually always find it for about 10% less somewhere else once you've handed the money over! Hit shappens, as they say. Once again plaudits to Mick for being so honest and forthcoming - excellent to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeDonovan Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Sorry emmah, but I have to say Mick has been more than fair here..... I understand your issue, but at the same time can't blame Mick for it. One thing I will say is this - why are you unwilling to talk to him directly about it? That's the first thing I would do, and I don't think it's unreasonable for him to expect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastersoftheshow Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Well, as I usually say to people who voice complaints like these (I've heard them as well, since I organise a show myself and one always gets complaints from certain people) : "well, do it yourself then !". "Go on, show me you can do better and cheaper !". It usually helps to calm things down ... P.S. Mick, would you happen to have any legal formation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bloke Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 WOW!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dufresne Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 But that doesn't turn me into a sheep like so many on here (naming no names). I take it that you haven't noticed your avatar recently? Good answer ! So you noticed my irony then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dufresne Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 But that doesn't turn me into a sheep like so many on here (naming no names). I take it that you haven't noticed your avatar recently? So we are are avatars now then?! Well that would make me Christina Aguilera *goes to check* nope. I still have my own voice, body and bank account. And they're all lovely ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Cavalier Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 If you charge £5 " as a service " I dont think I or anyone would complain - but a £10 charge on a £10 or £15 autograph appears unfair. Just out of intrest, how much mark up do you think shops put on the goods they sell? For normal non-sale prices, I happen to know the DVD markups of the likes of HMV and Virgin are around 400%. I worked for a short time at a DVD wholesalers and was given this info on the quiet. You may all wish to ponder that 400% next time you buy a movie in one of their outlets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dufresne Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 If you charge £5 " as a service " I dont think I or anyone would complain - but a £10 charge on a £10 or £15 autograph appears unfair. Just out of intrest, how much mark up do you think shops put on the goods they sell? For normal non-sale prices, I happen to know the DVD markups of the likes of HMV and Virgin are around 400%. I worked for a short time at a DVD wholesalers and was given this info on the quiet. You may all wish to ponder that 400% next time you buy a movie in one of their outlets. Bulls*** !! So if a DVD sells at £20, HMV buy it wholesale for £4 ??? Not happening ! I own music shop, and most DVDs that retail at £20 are about £10.50 wholesale. VAT takes them to about £13, so you MIGHT make FOURTY percent. And even if HMV get massive discount for buying in bulk, it won't take you anywhere NEAR 400 % Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastersoftheshow Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I own music shop, and most DVDs that retail at £20 are about £10.50 wholesale. VAT takes them to about £13, so you MIGHT make FOURTY percent. And even if HMV get massive discount for buying in bulk, it won't take you anywhere NEAR 400 % Dufresne, you own a music shop ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dufresne Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I own music shop, and most DVDs that retail at £20 are about £10.50 wholesale. VAT takes them to about £13, so you MIGHT make FOURTY percent. And even if HMV get massive discount for buying in bulk, it won't take you anywhere NEAR 400 % Dufresne, you own a music shop ?! Just recently - bought my boss out, but have been working there for 8 or 9 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_mk Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 If you charge £5 " as a service " I dont think I or anyone would complain - but a £10 charge on a £10 or £15 autograph appears unfair. Just out of intrest, how much mark up do you think shops put on the goods they sell? For normal non-sale prices, I happen to know the DVD markups of the likes of HMV and Virgin are around 400%. I worked for a short time at a DVD wholesalers and was given this info on the quiet. You may all wish to ponder that 400% next time you buy a movie in one of their outlets. Bulls*** !! So if a DVD sells at £20, HMV buy it wholesale for £4 ??? Not happening ! I own music shop, and most DVDs that retail at £20 are about £10.50 wholesale. VAT takes them to about £13, so you MIGHT make FOURTY percent. And even if HMV get massive discount for buying in bulk, it won't take you anywhere NEAR 400 % Have to admit, I was surprised... I was expecting it to be 100%-110%. (which of course would mean £10 mark up on a £10 auto!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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