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Ron Perlman Cancellation?


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OK, I'll give it a try ...

 

One of the arguments - and the one I hate the most - is "this is how it is done, accept it".

I have that logic no matter what it is applied to. That logic is basically saying that nothing should change because the status quo is how things are done so accept. It's an argument that was used against every protest march ever, against the suffragettes, against the abolition of slavery, against the abolition of the death penalty, etc. If we see something we don't like, we try and change it; that's how things work.

So saying that "guests cancel, accept it" is a false argument. What I'm saying is that we should NOT accept it.

 

The response to that is usually "but if guests couldn't cancel, they would never agree to come in the first place". To which I say: no, that's not true.

Look at it like this; if our favourite celeb never signed a contract they couldn't cancel, they'd never get any work again. If you are contracted to appear in a TV show, you do it. Likewise, if you are contracted to appear at an event, you should do it.

If there is a clash, why the heck did the celeb agree to the event in the first place? Just on the off-chance everything would be OK? How many thousands of people does that muck around just on their wishful thinking?

I remember an incident years ago involving the late, great John Thaw and how he agreed to be an after dinner speaker at an event. A few months later, BAFTA organised a John Thaw night but John Thaw refused to appear. He pointed out that he had already committed to the after dinner speaking and his word was his bond. BAFTA thought themselves so big that John Thaw would cancel the after dinner speech. The John Thaw night ended up going ahead without John Thaw.

Because John Thaw's word was his bond. He had the integrity to follow through with something he committed too. And if he thought there was a chance he might not be able to do something, he didn't agree to do it.

I don't see why we should expect less from other celebs these days.

 

Sure, occasionally there is an unavoidable situation. Life happens.

Iirc, Claudia Black had to cancel a few days before an event some years ago because her son broke his leg. Completely understandable - an unforeseen situation. But filming over running by a week or two is not "unforeseen", it happens all the time in the industry and celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

 

That's very well said Stenun and I get it. I'm just not sure what the answer is. The nature of the industry that they work in is that they are over a barrel a bit. Sometimes filming does get held up if the makers really want a particular actor and they aren't available at the time, I've seen it with some of my favs when I've read stories about how schedules on the film were reworked/delayed so they could wait for the actor in question - Martin Freeman and The Hobbit comes to mind but it's not always that clear cut, especially in TV where the schedules are so tight. If something unexpected comes up like reshoots it's often last minute because they they have such short production time for each episode. Yes real life stuff does come up and they will have to factor that in when they make the episode, ie if an actor isn't available due to an emergency but I 'm not in the industry so can only discuss it periferally.

 

 

But reshoots aren't uncommon - in fact I'd go so far as to say they happen more often than not.

I don't see how a celeb can commit to an event scheduled for a few days after filming when they know full well that there's a good chance they'll be reshoots.

 

If I'm working a 9-5 shift, I don't tell someone I will definitely be in the pub at 5:30. I accept that things may over run a little and I make allowances.

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celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

Not to dismiss your valid points, Stenun. But your last sentence says it all.

 

Would you prefer SM signed up Hollywood stars months in advance with a chance they might cancel. Or wait until the week of the show and hopefully announce 50+ guests?

 

Could you imagine trying to run a show, let alone a business like that? And how would a fan prepare themselves financially etc for such a larger burst of guests.

 

 

How about signing up stars *who know they'll be free* instead of stars who are taking a chance?

 

 

As others have said that would pretty much limit the list to non working actors and those who aren't contracted to anything. Even if a film has finished production so that the actors are essentially finished and available, the actors can still be called back for reshooting or redubbing if something is wrong enough. You likewise have thousands of people involved in the production of a film/show who may not be able to wait - the film will be booked in with all the post production companies for example, they may not be able to wait a couple of extra weeks for the actor to be available again because they are also booked to work on other projects after this one and can't delay everyone else's work to fit it in.

 

All I'm saying is that it's not always as cut and dried as we would like it to be.

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celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

Not to dismiss your valid points, Stenun. But your last sentence says it all.

 

Would you prefer SM signed up Hollywood stars months in advance with a chance they might cancel. Or wait until the week of the show and hopefully announce 50+ guests?

 

Could you imagine trying to run a show, let alone a business like that? And how would a fan prepare themselves financially etc for such a larger burst of guests.

 

 

How about signing up stars *who know they'll be free* instead of stars who are taking a chance?

 

 

As others have said that would pretty much limit the list to non working actors and those who aren't contracted to anything. Even if a film has finished production so that the actors are essentially finished and available, the actors can still be called back for reshooting or redubbing if something is wrong enough. You likewise have thousands of people involved in the production of a film/show who may not be able to wait - the film will be booked in with all the post production companies for example, they may not be able to wait a couple of extra weeks for the actor to be available again because they are also booked to work on other projects after this one and can't delay everyone else's work to fit it in.

 

All I'm saying is that it's not always as cut and dried as we would like it to be.

 

 

But as I've said, reshoots aren't uncommon.

Work over runs. You and I get that. Why don't the celebs?

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celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

Not to dismiss your valid points, Stenun. But your last sentence says it all.

 

Would you prefer SM signed up Hollywood stars months in advance with a chance they might cancel. Or wait until the week of the show and hopefully announce 50+ guests?

 

Could you imagine trying to run a show, let alone a business like that? And how would a fan prepare themselves financially etc for such a larger burst of guests.

How about signing up stars *who know they'll be free* instead of stars who are taking a chance?

How many people in the acting profession know for sure what they're doing next week, let alone months in advance.

 

To put into perspective, Ron was announced almost 6.5 months ago. How many scripts can an actor be offered in that time?

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celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

Not to dismiss your valid points, Stenun. But your last sentence says it all.

 

Would you prefer SM signed up Hollywood stars months in advance with a chance they might cancel. Or wait until the week of the show and hopefully announce 50+ guests?

 

Could you imagine trying to run a show, let alone a business like that? And how would a fan prepare themselves financially etc for such a larger burst of guests.

 

 

How about signing up stars *who know they'll be free* instead of stars who are taking a chance?

 

what stars 'know they'll be free' for certain.The answer is none unless they are retired from performing. A job offer can come in the next few minutes or months away, who knows. They don't work in the same place or often even in the same country from one project to another. It could be a days work or a whole series. None of them work like fans usually do in permanent places like for the council or an office or a factory working set hours like 9 till 5 or shifts every week. Thought that was obvious but obviously not. :smile: . Showmasters point out time and again theres allways a possibility a star may have to cancel as their career allways comes first.

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celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

Not to dismiss your valid points, Stenun. But your last sentence says it all.

 

Would you prefer SM signed up Hollywood stars months in advance with a chance they might cancel. Or wait until the week of the show and hopefully announce 50+ guests?

 

Could you imagine trying to run a show, let alone a business like that? And how would a fan prepare themselves financially etc for such a larger burst of guests.

 

 

How about signing up stars *who know they'll be free* instead of stars who are taking a chance?

 

 

As others have said that would pretty much limit the list to non working actors and those who aren't contracted to anything. Even if a film has finished production so that the actors are essentially finished and available, the actors can still be called back for reshooting or redubbing if something is wrong enough. You likewise have thousands of people involved in the production of a film/show who may not be able to wait - the film will be booked in with all the post production companies for example, they may not be able to wait a couple of extra weeks for the actor to be available again because they are also booked to work on other projects after this one and can't delay everyone else's work to fit it in.

 

All I'm saying is that it's not always as cut and dried as we would like it to be.

 

 

But as I've said, reshoots aren't uncommon.

Work over runs. You and I get that. Why don't the celebs?

 

 

Because if it doesn't over run but didn't book to come to the con, that means that they could have turned up but didn't. At least with the way it works now there's a chance that they will be there.

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celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

Not to dismiss your valid points, Stenun. But your last sentence says it all.

 

Would you prefer SM signed up Hollywood stars months in advance with a chance they might cancel. Or wait until the week of the show and hopefully announce 50+ guests?

 

Could you imagine trying to run a show, let alone a business like that? And how would a fan prepare themselves financially etc for such a larger burst of guests.

How about signing up stars *who know they'll be free* instead of stars who are taking a chance?

How many people in the acting profession know for sure what they're doing next week, let alone months in advance.

 

To put into perspective, Ron was announced almost 6.5 months ago. How many scripts can an actor be offered in that time?

 

 

Hang on, I already countered the argument of "new work" above with my John Thaw story. :-)

I've been assuming that Ron Perlman has cancelled due to something over running - probably Hand Of God. If that's the case, he is far enough of a seasoned pro to know that re-shoots and overruns are to be expected.

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No one is going to turn down paid work, it's their job!

 

If we want 'current' actors at these events then this is the risk. Otherwise these events will just be filled with non working actors that most people will then moan about.

 

Your not going to get anyone signing a contract that commits them to a convention no matter how nice they are or how much they are looking forward to it.

 

Their livelihood is acting, if I was them and couldn't help the fact then I would cancel a convention appearance over my job.

 

It is disappointing for fans, but if you really are a fan wouldn't you rather they were acting - You just need to accept that these things happen.

 

"Otherwise these events will just be filled with non working actors that most people will then moan about."

Like Michael J Fox, you mean?

 

"No one is going to turn down paid work, it's their job!"

Paid work like attending a convention?

 

"Your not going to get anyone signing a contract that commits them to a convention no matter how nice they are or how much they are looking forward to it."

And yet a few years ago Showmasters specifically made the point that they had signed up Peter Dinklage to appear only after specifically making sure he woud have time off from filming the X-Men movie he was in. They didn't sign him on wishful thinking.

So it can be done!

 

 

No, you are right, they checked but stuff can still come up to change that.

 

 

OK, I'll give it a try ...

 

One of the arguments - and the one I hate the most - is "this is how it is done, accept it".

I have that logic no matter what it is applied to. That logic is basically saying that nothing should change because the status quo is how things are done so accept. It's an argument that was used against every protest march ever, against the suffragettes, against the abolition of slavery, against the abolition of the death penalty, etc. If we see something we don't like, we try and change it; that's how things work.

So saying that "guests cancel, accept it" is a false argument. What I'm saying is that we should NOT accept it.

 

The response to that is usually "but if guests couldn't cancel, they would never agree to come in the first place". To which I say: no, that's not true.

Look at it like this; if our favourite celeb never signed a contract they couldn't cancel, they'd never get any work again. If you are contracted to appear in a TV show, you do it. Likewise, if you are contracted to appear at an event, you should do it.

If there is a clash, why the heck did the celeb agree to the event in the first place? Just on the off-chance everything would be OK? How many thousands of people does that muck around just on their wishful thinking?

I remember an incident years ago involving the late, great John Thaw and how he agreed to be an after dinner speaker at an event. A few months later, BAFTA organised a John Thaw night but John Thaw refused to appear. He pointed out that he had already committed to the after dinner speaking and his word was his bond. BAFTA thought themselves so big that John Thaw would cancel the after dinner speech. The John Thaw night ended up going ahead without John Thaw.

Because John Thaw's word was his bond. He had the integrity to follow through with something he committed too. And if he thought there was a chance he might not be able to do something, he didn't agree to do it.

I don't see why we should expect less from other celebs these days.

 

Sure, occasionally there is an unavoidable situation. Life happens.

Iirc, Claudia Black had to cancel a few days before an event some years ago because her son broke his leg. Completely understandable - an unforeseen situation. But filming over running by a week or two is not "unforeseen", it happens all the time in the industry and celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

 

That's very well said Stenun and I get it. I'm just not sure what the answer is. The nature of the industry that they work in is that they are over a barrel a bit. Sometimes filming does get held up if the makers really want a particular actor and they aren't available at the time, I've seen it with some of my favs when I've read stories about how schedules on the film were reworked/delayed so they could wait for the actor in question - Martin Freeman and The Hobbit comes to mind but it's not always that clear cut, especially in TV where the schedules are so tight. If something unexpected comes up like reshoots it's often last minute because they they have such short production time for each episode. Yes real life stuff does come up and they will have to factor that in when they make the episode, ie if an actor isn't available due to an emergency but I 'm not in the industry so can only discuss it periferally.

 

 

But reshoots aren't uncommon - in fact I'd go so far as to say they happen more often than not.

I don't see how a celeb can commit to an event scheduled for a few days after filming when they know full well that there's a good chance they'll be reshoots.

 

If I'm working a 9-5 shift, I don't tell someone I will definitely be in the pub at 5:30. I accept that things may over run a little and I make allowances.

 

 

I really don't want to continue arguing this so I won't. But using your final example if I finish work at 5 and say I'll meet someone in the pup at 5.30 I will. However if on preparing to leave work we get a call that the ceiling has fallen in because of a leak I'm not going to say 'sorry I've finished my shift and am meeting a friend for a drink' I'm going to stay and help as I can, even if it's just covering the department so that they can go and deal with it. I've had to cancel meeting people in the evening because I've had to stay late last minute when a collegue was sick. I've even had to cancel holiday I had booked for a whole year because a boss threw a wobbly and changed the way the holiday system worked. Yes I could have fought it and legally would have been in the right but I would have lost my job in the end so it wasn't worth it.

 

Getting off track here though.

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celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

Not to dismiss your valid points, Stenun. But your last sentence says it all.

 

Would you prefer SM signed up Hollywood stars months in advance with a chance they might cancel. Or wait until the week of the show and hopefully announce 50+ guests?

 

Could you imagine trying to run a show, let alone a business like that? And how would a fan prepare themselves financially etc for such a larger burst of guests.

 

 

How about signing up stars *who know they'll be free* instead of stars who are taking a chance?

 

what stars 'know they'll be free' for certain.The answer is none unless they are retired from performing. A job offer can come in the next few minutes or months away, who knows. They don't work in the same place or often even in the same country from one project to another. It could be a days work or a whole series. None of them work like fans usually do in permanent places like for the council or an office or a factory working set hours like 9 till 5 or shifts every week. Thought that was obvious but obviously not. :smile: . Showmasters point out time and again theres allways a possibility a star may have to cancel as their career allways comes first.

 

 

WHY should one job offer trump another? How about sticking to what you said you'd do? Read my John Thaw story above.

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Guests cancel because they're getting steady acting work that gives them money and exposure, this has always been the way and always will be pure and simple.

 

Mods can I just ask are we likely to get an official confirmation today or are we likely looking at Monday? I know it's a how long is a piece of string question but just wondered.

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I really don't want to continue arguing this so I won't. But using your final example if I finish work at 5 and say I'll meet someone in the pup at 5.30 I will. However if on preparing to leave work we get a call that the ceiling has fallen in because of a leak I'm not going to say 'sorry I've finished my shift and am meeting a friend for a drink' I'm going to stay and help as I can, even if it's just covering the department so that they can go and deal with it. I've had to cancel meeting people in the evening because I've had to stay late last minute when a collegue was sick. I've even had to cancel holiday I had booked for a whole year because a boss threw a wobbly and changed the way the holiday system worked. Yes I could have fought it and legally would have been in the right but I would have lost my job in the end so it wasn't worth it.

 

Getting off track here though.

 

 

If the ceiling falls in, I'm happy to categorise that with Claudia Black's son breaking his leg - an unforeseen Life event. But shooting over running does not fall in to that category. :-)

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Guests cancel because they're getting steady acting work that gives them money and exposure, this has always been the way and always will be pure and simple.

 

Mods can I just ask are we likely to get an official confirmation today or are we likely looking at Monday? I know it's a how long is a piece of string question but just wondered.

 

Read above for my thoughts on "always been this way".

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celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

Not to dismiss your valid points, Stenun. But your last sentence says it all.

 

Would you prefer SM signed up Hollywood stars months in advance with a chance they might cancel. Or wait until the week of the show and hopefully announce 50+ guests?

 

Could you imagine trying to run a show, let alone a business like that? And how would a fan prepare themselves financially etc for such a larger burst of guests.

 

 

How about signing up stars *who know they'll be free* instead of stars who are taking a chance?

 

what stars 'know they'll be free' for certain.The answer is none unless they are retired from performing. A job offer can come in the next few minutes or months away, who knows. They don't work in the same place or often even in the same country from one project to another. It could be a days work or a whole series. None of them work like fans usually do in permanent places like for the council or an office or a factory working set hours like 9 till 5 or shifts every week. Thought that was obvious but obviously not. :smile: . Showmasters point out time and again theres allways a possibility a star may have to cancel as their career allways comes first.

 

 

WHY should one job offer trump another? How about sticking to what you said you'd do? Read my John Thaw story above.

 

 

Turning down acting work can affect future work if they get a reputation for saying they won't do extra filming because they went to a convention. If I was a casting directer and heard that an actor did this regularly then I probably wouldn't consider them as they want the shoot to run smoothly. I used to work in a similar industry and being flexible is VERY important.

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celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

Not to dismiss your valid points, Stenun. But your last sentence says it all.

 

Would you prefer SM signed up Hollywood stars months in advance with a chance they might cancel. Or wait until the week of the show and hopefully announce 50+ guests?

 

Could you imagine trying to run a show, let alone a business like that? And how would a fan prepare themselves financially etc for such a larger burst of guests.

 

 

How about signing up stars *who know they'll be free* instead of stars who are taking a chance?

 

what stars 'know they'll be free' for certain.The answer is none unless they are retired from performing. A job offer can come in the next few minutes or months away, who knows. They don't work in the same place or often even in the same country from one project to another. It could be a days work or a whole series. None of them work like fans usually do in permanent places like for the council or an office or a factory working set hours like 9 till 5 or shifts every week. Thought that was obvious but obviously not. :smile: . Showmasters point out time and again theres allways a possibility a star may have to cancel as their career allways comes first.

 

 

WHY should one job offer trump another? How about sticking to what you said you'd do? Read my John Thaw story above.

 

because 'Acting' is his profession not appearing at a convention and his career comes first.

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Turning down acting work can affect future work if they get a reputation for saying they won't do extra filming because they went to a convention. If I was a casting directer and heard that an actor did this regularly then I probably wouldn't consider then as you want the shoot to run smoothly. I used to work in a similar industry and being flexible is VERY important.

 

 

Hold on, there are two different things here.

There is "extra filming" and "new job".

Your first sentence seems to merge the two together in to one issue; they're not.

 

Turning down a new job because you already have a commitment would not get you a bad rep. However I do accept that refusing to do reshoots because of a Con would; but my point is that reshoots are so common that celebs should take that in to consideration before agreeing to something like LFCC.

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celebs should take that into consideration before signing to appear at a Con.

Not to dismiss your valid points, Stenun. But your last sentence says it all.

 

Would you prefer SM signed up Hollywood stars months in advance with a chance they might cancel. Or wait until the week of the show and hopefully announce 50+ guests?

 

Could you imagine trying to run a show, let alone a business like that? And how would a fan prepare themselves financially etc for such a larger burst of guests.

 

 

How about signing up stars *who know they'll be free* instead of stars who are taking a chance?

 

what stars 'know they'll be free' for certain.The answer is none unless they are retired from performing. A job offer can come in the next few minutes or months away, who knows. They don't work in the same place or often even in the same country from one project to another. It could be a days work or a whole series. None of them work like fans usually do in permanent places like for the council or an office or a factory working set hours like 9 till 5 or shifts every week. Thought that was obvious but obviously not. :smile: . Showmasters point out time and again theres allways a possibility a star may have to cancel as their career allways comes first.

 

 

WHY should one job offer trump another? How about sticking to what you said you'd do? Read my John Thaw story above.

 

because 'Acting' is his profession not appearing at a convention and his career comes first.

 

 

Did you read my John Thaw story? :-)

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Acting is their job, attending conventions is not their job. It's an extra thing they do outside of their job so they can meet their fans. I'm quite sure none of the current working actors need the money that desperately that conventions bring in. Out of work actors do, but those that are most likely to cancel do not. Therefore if their actual job needs them last minute for reshoots etc, that has got to be their priority. I've been doing conventions for about 12 years now and I don't think I've been to a single event that's not had cancellations. It's just the nature of the convention business.

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How is this discussion still going on? He agreed to appear on principle, change to his schedule and he has had to cancel. Surely that's just it?

 

Not the first guest to do it, won't be the last.

 

Please read above for my thoughts one "always been this way".

"Not the first guest to do it, won't be the last" is pretty much the same argument just phrased differently.

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Acting is their job, attending conventions is not their job. It's an extra thing they do outside of their job so they can meet their fans. I'm quite sure none of the current working actors need the money that desperately that conventions bring in. Out of work actors do, but those that are most likely to cancel do not. Therefore if their actual job needs them last minute for reshoots etc, that has got to be their priority. I've been doing conventions for about 12 years now and I don't think I've been to a single event that's not had cancellations. It's just the nature of the convention business.

 

If you sign a contract to appear at a convention, then it becomes part of your job.

You don't sign a contract for leisure activities; it's a job. OK, it's not an acting job but it's still a job.

 

"The nature of the convention business". Please read above for my thoughts on "always been this way".

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This thread needs to be locked, it's getting out of hand. At the end of the day, guests are always gonna cancel for various reasons, most of which are listed above. It's common practice and always will be. There's still a GREAT lineup!

 

All I'd like to know is if it's possible we'll get confirmation this weekend or if it'll be Monday? Otherwise, lock this thread mods as its too out of hand.

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Turning down acting work can affect future work if they get a reputation for saying they won't do extra filming because they went to a convention. If I was a casting directer and heard that an actor did this regularly then I probably wouldn't consider then as you want the shoot to run smoothly. I used to work in a similar industry and being flexible is VERY important.

 

 

Hold on, there are two different things here.

There is "extra filming" and "new job".

Your first sentence seems to merge the two together in to one issue; they're not.

 

Turning down a new job because you already have a commitment would not get you a bad rep. However I do accept that refusing to do reshoots because of a Con would; but my point is that reshoots are so common that celebs should take that in to consideration before agreeing to something like LFCC.

 

 

They do, but they don't ALWAYS happen, so they say yes to the cons so knowing that they can cancel if the work comes up.

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This thread needs to be locked, it's getting out of hand. At the end of the day, guests are always gonna cancel for various reasons, most of which are listed above. It's common practice and always will be. There's still a GREAT lineup!

 

All I'd like to know is if it's possible we'll get confirmation this weekend or if it'll be Monday? Otherwise, lock this thread mods as its too out of hand.

 

I disagree. I've remained perfectly civil through out. Just because you don't agree with my arguments does not mean the thread is "getting out of hand". :-)

 

"It's common practice and it always will be". Did you read my thoughts on this argument?

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Acting is their job, attending conventions is not their job. It's an extra thing they do outside of their job so they can meet their fans. I'm quite sure none of the current working actors need the money that desperately that conventions bring in. Out of work actors do, but those that are most likely to cancel do not. Therefore if their actual job needs them last minute for reshoots etc, that has got to be their priority. I've been doing conventions for about 12 years now and I don't think I've been to a single event that's not had cancellations. It's just the nature of the convention business.

 

If you sign a contract to appear at a convention, then it becomes part of your job.

You don't sign a contract for leisure activities; it's a job. OK, it's not an acting job but it's still a job.

 

"The nature of the convention business". Please read above for my thoughts on "always been this way".

 

But they sign because they can cancel.

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Turning down acting work can affect future work if they get a reputation for saying they won't do extra filming because they went to a convention. If I was a casting directer and heard that an actor did this regularly then I probably wouldn't consider then as you want the shoot to run smoothly. I used to work in a similar industry and being flexible is VERY important.

 

 

Hold on, there are two different things here.

There is "extra filming" and "new job".

Your first sentence seems to merge the two together in to one issue; they're not.

 

Turning down a new job because you already have a commitment would not get you a bad rep. However I do accept that refusing to do reshoots because of a Con would; but my point is that reshoots are so common that celebs should take that in to consideration before agreeing to something like LFCC.

 

 

They do, but they don't ALWAYS happen, so they say yes to the cons so knowing that they can cancel if the work comes up.

 

 

And my argument is that they shouldn't. :-)

IF the con falls in the reasonable "reshoot time zone", surely it makes sense to keep that time free rather than wishing upon a star and mucking around thousands of fans?

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