lunglock Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think a lot of attitude I've seen told of here (and given in some posts) are appalling. Able bodied people do NOT know what it's like to live in another's body, so they shouldn't judge whether they should be getting to the front of the queue or not. It's not a VIP pass, and telling people they should queue like everyone else in the spirit of 'we're all at a convention' is ridiculous. You do not know others pain or limitations, or how lucky you are that you can queue happily without feeling like you could pass out or keel over for some reason. I wasn't going to get into a debate but as your clearly making that statement in relation to my comments I'll respond. Ilovemyadams put it perfectly, unfortunately this country has a culture of people trying to get something for nothing which takes this away from the people that genuinely needs assistance and support. All I'm saying is Showmasters are going to have to be very careful because it will open the floodgates to people who are trying their luck as we have seen this year there is plenty of people that will do anything to avoid queing like the rest of us have to. People faking disabilities, as mentioned above, is a minority issue. I would never, ever doubt and have the attitude you have towards anyone in real life. It's much more likely they have the disability they say they have, than to be faking it for queue jumping benefits. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirGeeksalot Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I too am disabled, its not really that hidden but to most its not very obvious. I have a mild form of spinabifida, meaning my spine is basically in a complete mess, bent and curved and in need of serious reconstructive surgery, meaning standing for more then half an hour can cause me agonizing pain. I also have bad leg pains and hip pains. I only asked to use my disability as a pass once and that was in the Robert englund que as i was starting to feel some serious pain hitting at that point. I myself tried to use the stairs as much as i could to save myself the hassle from being squashed on the lifts. every time my poor balance caused me to stumble or fall into people i made sure i faced them and apologized to them for doing this. I was shoved, stepped on, even swore at for how slow i walked during the convention. people thought i was trying to do the charlie chaplin walk on saturday because of how i walk naturally and were really annoyed at me if they were behind me. i could have let this upset me but i have lived with this for 30 years and sadly you just have to accept that people are going to treat you like a second class citizen for something you have no control of, you have no choice really, just smile and deal with it. if you let people put you down then you will have a very hard life ahead of you. hey, feel free to use your disabled badge to queue jump, don't push yourself to the point of pain that is madness! I hate queuing but i am able and its not so bad as long as I have a pair of flat shoes I am guessing the recovery the following few days is pretty grueling too. Disabities are not fair just ask anyone who complains if they would like to swap! Perhaps Show masters could offer a special disability only gold pass? I have absolutely no problem at all with someone with a disability going in front of me, when I've had a Gold Pass or not (I didn't do Gold this time as had two Diamond passes). I completely understand that there are situations where it is difficult or uncomfortable for someone to wait long and it has never caused me any problems having someone go in ahead of me. I also understand that there are people who have illnesses or things that don't involve wheelchairs or something that is a visible indicator of a disability. Never had a problem with that. I hope a Gold pass would never be required for people in that situation - seeing something like that would make me feel quite sad. - G 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierranevada Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think I possibly recognise you from your pic,were you wearing a yellow Star Trek uniform on Saturday by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoogleKnowsUs Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I don't think its people who fake something. It's more like those people that go ahead and have the attitude showing, "here, see, I get sh*** for free and there is nothing you can do about it because if you say something you're discriminating me." I've seen this on multiple occasions where conventions or other fan meetings were concerned, set visits etc. People can be genuine or they won't be genuine. It's easy to see who is and who isn't and this does not require a disability I'm glad there is a special assistance for you guys, less queuing, help with chairs etc. I don't know if this is already in place but would it not be helpful to have someone coordinate disabled guests of those events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone1 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think in the general sense people faking disabilities is hugely rare but less so within fannish type gatherings like this. I've seen it all over the years - people borrowing an ill relative's wheelchair to get access to the spaces for differently abled people at premieres, people who insist on front row centre at conventions because they have visual difficulties when you've heard them laughing about fibbing about it the day before etc. Some people are shameless. The Saturday of LFCC was pretty hellish and I felt for those with physical difficulties. There was nowhere to sit at all and alas hideous as it is I can understand why people didnt move out of the lifts. The staircase was a nightmare to get to and a health and safety horror (I have serious claustrophobia in crowds and level one was sheer hell for me). Given how long it was taking to get around you were so relieved to actually get access to a lift when you racing off to a talk etc that people weren't really loooking around to see if anyone else needed help. Self absorbed certainly but understandable. Hopefully a lay out change for next year should sort this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSpike Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 "It's easy to see who is and who isn't and this does not require a disability" Really? I never realised that so many people were gifted with X ray vision and instant access to other peoples medical records. :) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoogleKnowsUs Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Don't twist what I said. If you overhear and see people acting like douches, it's easy to spot them. I can spot these people easily as there is some vibe they send off. Something I catch and I am like "excuse me, but who are you to claim you get priority". There is also the difference between "ask" and "demand" - that goes for everyone as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubby Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) I have heart disease, a slipped disk, nerve damage in my spine, and the cherry on the cake motor tic. I also find dealing the heat very hard but its my choice to go to the LFCC and I mite be falling apart but im no different to any one else. were all going the same way, we all paid out money, we all want the best days of our lives its how we deal with it. I norm bring a leaning stall with me so I can take the weight off ( and its a lot of weight too ) but this year I left it behind but I found that the very loud gang of lads all in cosplay that I thought oh no when they all stood behind me shouting turned out to be a real life saver. not only did they see I was in major pain and having problems in the heat, they got me a seat, made a make shift canopy to shield me from the sun, out of a sword and cape, got me water. Theres good and bad in everyone and the sad thing is its a worldwide issue that unless yr in a chair theres nothing wrong with you, so if I were you id get a GP letter with an nhs letter head saying about everything to keep with you incase it happens again. Like me you find help in the least likely place. I never got to see half the people I wanted to as I cant get around as quick as some of the ppl my age ( 33) but its the risk we take im classed as disabled by law but I don't want to be bumped up the front, im no different to anyone in the line. I could quite easily use my card to play the queue jump game but its a convention I chose to go too, with the understanding ill be feeling the pain for the next week and breathing agro but its my choice to be there. I had a 2 hour wait like everyone else. Edited July 21, 2015 by chubby 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raylenth Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 At Chevron (Massive Events Stargate con) they allow disabled people in first so they can sit first in whatever section they've bought a ticket for. I was stopped by a volunteer and told I didn't look disabled. It's not a response you want but if you get asked that again maybe say 'and what do disabled people look like then'? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirGeeksalot Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think I possibly recognise you from your pic,were you wearing a yellow Star Trek uniform on Saturday by any chance? Who? Me? No - I was wearing a Back To The Future t-shirt. :-) - G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierranevada Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Sorry no I meant the original poster stephy249! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpyghostface Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Unfortunately this a nationwide issue! People will generally assume you're putting it on unless you're on crutches or using a wheelchair. Morons. The Morons ,as you put it, are the people who fake disability or illness or exaggerate what they have to screw the system out of everything they can get. Everyone, sadly including genuine people, gets tarred with the same brush.This is the price you pay for bad back Britain.Not the staffs fault. I work in the benefits system so i see it every day. Just how can you tell whos putting it on when you have seconds to assess someone and respond to a request.I see fake doctors notes and even hospital letters so i'm not surprized event staff are cynical about someones heath issues.I see people at premieres using wheelchairs etc to get access to disabled pens to gain easier access to the stars for autographs when i've caught them out walking around normally at other times when they weren't expecting to be seen. No offence to anyone on here that has a genuine need for assistance but just pointing out what some people will do to gain advantage and why some people will see you as not being for real. awful but thats the way it is. And I know people who have multiple, serious problems after having worked their entire lives, and have had their disability-related benefits cut off by over-zealous benefits staff (and who have won on appeal when they've gone to have those benefits reinstated). And the whole "I saw you walking normally earlier so you are clearly faking it now" thing - you clearly don't know how many disabilities work. I took the stairs sometimes this time at the LFCC, and the lift a couple of times. Other weekends I would have been completely unable to use the stairs at all. On a flat surface I walk perfectly "normally". I'm a prime candidate for your judgemental, ignorant assumption of being a faker, and you'd still be wrong. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekkiefan Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Returning back to the original posters' point (although there are some other very valid points made here) about not all disabled people being in a wheelchair or on crutches. This is something that people in society get wrong, so I am not surprised it happens in a con such as this. I would never have considered myself disabled hence did not request assistance................I had a complete mental breakdown almost two years to the day. I am still not right and might never be. I knew I might have some issues ref: panic and trapped etc. so I blew the budget and bought a gold pass to try and avoid most of this. I was doing ok up to one photo shoot (which I am taking up separately with showmasters so will not detail here) when I started to get seriously panicky and desperate to get out. Unfortunately that appeared to be one of the many weird occasions when the venue staff randomly closed a side staircase causing the most dangerous area full of people..........when I flipped and was very obviously in some distress, I was laughed at by other con-goers and ignored. So, apologies, I am rambling, but we just need to be a lot nicer to each other really as who knows what problems/conditions etc. people have. If I saw someone in obvious distress I would I have helped I believe I saw you when that happened, I tried to get to you to help but couldn't due to all the people standing around and you had ran off at that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flything Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I was in a wheelchair at LFCC and I know I bumped into a few people (combination of people just stopping and foward momentum of wheels not being that easy to stop but there's also the issue of my driver not being able to see where my feet are (and therefore the edge of the chair) and misjudging) but I always make sure to apologise. I find the worst thing is that I come out feeling like I've got concussion - the amount of people who smack you round the head with their bags. Yes, some people apologise but others just carry on. I always hear whipers and murmurs when I get out of my chair for photo-ops. News flash people - not everyone in a chair is paralysed. I've got arthritis in my hips, knees and back plus fibro. On a good day, I walk with nothing more than a limp and s*** balance. On a bad day, nope, bed bound. I used to try and get around cons on crutches but I'd end up so exhausted and in pain that I wasn't enjoying myself and it wasn't worth it. Even in the chair this weekend, after about 6 hours, I was in pain and had to leave. I learned about queue jump after basically trying to cause a fabulous game of dominos one time... god I'd love to be able to stand and queue - I'll happily swap with an able-bodied person. I will always let a walking disabled go ahead of me though, if I can - because hey, I'm sitting down. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danalar Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I completely sympathise with those who had a bad experience at LFCC concerning their disabilities.I felt terrible for those who were in wheelchairs, both motor and manual, being scowled at for 'taking up too much room' - It's not their fault that they have mobility difficulty. The number of people who I saw bashing into them and not apologising was disgusting. Yes, you have a shoot/signing to attend to, but at least have consideration and apologise. Unfortunately, too many people are too oblivious and only care about themselves and getting an autograph.I bumped into a couple of people in wheelchairs due to being pushed by ignorant con-goers, but I made sure that they were okay and I gave them a full apology and made sure they were okay before I moved on.As for those who were saying that other's were 'faking it' just because they are capable to walk. Disability does NOT mean mobility. It's more than just that. It's mentally and physically that are included to. Don't judge what you can't see.I'm deaf in both ears, so naturally I was going to seriously struggle hearing around LFCC due to the sheer volume that meant I was unable to understand what was being said and being instructed of others, so I was very pleased to have been offered an Extra Help pass. I explained to the staff (via my phone) that due to the volume and being deaf that I would be unable to hear them, and for them to write their responses down on paper. They were all fantastic and supportive, and pointed me in the right direction each time.I don't look 'disabled' but as soon as my hearing aids are on show, then I am. I don't take advantage. I knew I was going into a loud environment the moment I purchased my tickets, so I prepared myself to have the assistance I felt I was entitled to in order to make my day run smoothly. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collectorbob Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I just want to start of by saying that I had an amazing time at LFCC this year. I saw everyone I wanted to see but only just and that was with an extra help queue jump so I really do feel for those who missed out. But here's my thing, 24 hours of the day I am in agony because of my feet but after 5 years you can bare a certain amount of pain, so on Saturday when I walked up to the doors to try and get in to get the pass at least 3 of the crew gave me a proper look up and down before rolling their eyes and told me to join a long ass queue. After 4 tubes and the walk from the station all the way round the building to the YALC entrance and they rolled their eyes at me. Eventually I did get in there were a few crew member when I showed them my pass they looked at me like I was crazy. One looked me up and down and said "oh sure" sarcastically. I was in agony but I was putting in a brave face and people like this are like a kick in the feet. I must say that whoever was on Photoshoot A + C were both amazing, getting me as close to the front as possible and getting me a seat, I just wish they were all like that. Disability shouldn't = wheelchair. Maybe if this could be mentioned during prep/training Feel really bad for you but I am glad you had an amazing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blenna_Janeway85 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 All the disabled people I noticed seemed very polite under the circumstances. I saw many wheelchairs struggling to get anywhere because people either could not or would not get out of the way. I tried to let people through whenever I could and spent a lot of time apolagising for bumping into people. But there were also times when I was struggling to get to a photoshoot at the other end of the venue. In these instances I ran, ducked and dodged my way through the crowd and probably gave the impression I was being very rude. But I think most people had moments like this over the weekend and I can honestly say for once I didn't mind if someone bumped into me and didn't apologise. As a few people have mentioned a little more effiency with the layout should cut out some of these problems, as well as not having photo shoots near staircases. As an able bodied person I struggled with the weekend myself and although one person doesn't make much difference I only used the stairs. I believe there should be a designated area where people with a disability can sit down and rest with ease. The rest of us are perfectly happy to sit on the floor when we need to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misskitten Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 To anyone begrudging disabled people getting to avoid queues etc. I don't have any disability myself, but I work with a lot of people who do and given the choice between having one of those disabilities and queuing for everything, I'd happily queue. It's not VIP treatment. If you're in a wheelchair you have a harder time to navigate around a crowd (I agree that this doesn't give anyone the right to ram their chair into other people, that is never alright), if you aren't able to stand the duration of a queue you aren't going to manage to move around the convention floor without some serious breaks to rest up, seizures takes a lot out of a person, and panic attacks are horrible. No matter how much our able-bodied feet are killing us, I'm willing to bet that most of us are able to experience more out of a con than a disabled person with the same ticket level. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinto316 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Not all disability is visible. My dad has lung cancer and is registered disabled. People shouldn't judge a book by its cover. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kymley Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I think it's going to take me a while to recover from this one - bed bound on Monday, physio yesterday as well as sleeping in the afternoon and now in bed again. My exhaustion, fatigue is so high and my energy so low that I just need to do nothing. Doctor told me to sleep for the next few days. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveamyadams Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Unfortunately this a nationwide issue! People will generally assume you're putting it on unless you're on crutches or using a wheelchair. Morons. The Morons ,as you put it, are the people who fake disability or illness or exaggerate what they have to screw the system out of everything they can get. Everyone, sadly including genuine people, gets tarred with the same brush.This is the price you pay for bad back Britain.Not the staffs fault. I work in the benefits system so i see it every day. Just how can you tell whos putting it on when you have seconds to assess someone and respond to a request.I see fake doctors notes and even hospital letters so i'm not surprized event staff are cynical about someones heath issues.I see people at premieres using wheelchairs etc to get access to disabled pens to gain easier access to the stars for autographs when i've caught them out walking around normally at other times when they weren't expecting to be seen. No offence to anyone on here that has a genuine need for assistance but just pointing out what some people will do to gain advantage and why some people will see you as not being for real. awful but thats the way it is. And I know people who have multiple, serious problems after having worked their entire lives, and have had their disability-related benefits cut off by over-zealous benefits staff (and who have won on appeal when they've gone to have those benefits reinstated). And the whole "I saw you walking normally earlier so you are clearly faking it now" thing - you clearly don't know how many disabilities work. I took the stairs sometimes this time at the LFCC, and the lift a couple of times. Other weekends I would have been completely unable to use the stairs at all. On a flat surface I walk perfectly "normally". I'm a prime candidate for your judgemental, ignorant assumption of being a faker, and you'd still be wrong. well whats more ignorant than not reading properly or understanding someones post ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSpike Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Oh I dunno, maybe some people who think they can tell who's 'faking it' just by sight alone I suspect. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasari Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I have to agree here, sadly there are minorities on both sides that cause issues. Personally I tend to assist or move or help whenever I see someone who needs assistance and am blown away that more don't, I saw one person literally climb over someone in a wheel chair at one point... Similarly there were two occasions where people with disabled passes cut to the front of a queue I was in saying "I'm disabled." Both times there were people in wheelchairs in said queue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveamyadams Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Oh I dunno, maybe some people who think they can tell who's 'faking it' just by sight alone I suspect. :) well i 'd love to meet someone that can spot a 'faker' by sight alone certainly not me. Certainly wasn't claimed by me.My original post had a comment about catching someone out trying to use a wheechair to gain access to a premiere because i saw them walking normally at another time,i could have added that person i knew personally ( not by sight alone), who i knew was working full time in a warehouse and it ended in court in a suspended jail sentance with a payback of benefits of 20 thousend( but why would people want to read all that). I don't judge people on sight alone.Did i say everyone was like that? er No! But certain people took it like i did.If certain people had bothered to read what i put it was in defence of people who are in genuine need and need assistance but they don't get it or taken seriously (including by some event staff and some customers) because all of us know on here there are people out there who take advantage . Thankfully i don't have any disability but i can empathise with people who do having worked at Shepwell for 20 years helping phyiscally and mentally ill people intergrate into society. I've seen first hand the attitude towards people who are a little different but as i pointed out ,others take advantage ( not everyone before i get jumped),or play the system ( not everyone again a minority)and wether we like it or not everyone gets tarred by the same brush.Anyway have a good day Edited July 22, 2015 by loveamyadams 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrond_peredhel Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I just want to start of by saying that I had an amazing time at LFCC this year. I saw everyone I wanted to see but only just and that was with an extra help queue jump so I really do feel for those who missed out. But here's my thing, 24 hours of the day I am in agony because of my feet but after 5 years you can bare a certain amount of pain, so on Saturday when I walked up to the doors to try and get in to get the pass at least 3 of the crew gave me a proper look up and down before rolling their eyes and told me to join a long ass queue. After 4 tubes and the walk from the station all the way round the building to the YALC entrance and they rolled their eyes at me. Eventually I did get in there were a few crew member when I showed them my pass they looked at me like I was crazy. One looked me up and down and said "oh sure" sarcastically. I was in agony but I was putting in a brave face and people like this are like a kick in the feet. I must say that whoever was on Photoshoot A + C were both amazing, getting me as close to the front as possible and getting me a seat, I just wish they were all like that. Disability shouldn't = wheelchair. Maybe if this could be mentioned during prep/training Pretty much the same situation as you, except I didn't have the guts to go for a disability pass because this is the kind of reaction I expect to get. Instead, I stood in queues and sat on my bag when possible. I'm actually considering getting a stick of some kind in future just so I have the visual aid for people to say yes, I do need you to let me sit down. There's only so much 'grin and bear it' we should ave to take... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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