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Scottish bank notes questioned

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I can't believe all these people who worked in retail never knew about Scottish notes lol. I was always taught about it.

 

On another side though I truly hope we don't become separate countries, my mum is English, my father Scottish, I feel equally both

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Actually, if you had read the thread properly I think you'll find that I was replying to a post from 'Indestructible' - it was them who stated that it was the ENGLISH who had bailed out the SCOTTISH banks - I then ASKED what specifically Scottish banks were bailed out and you replied RBS.

 

Also, it was the whole banking sector that was in crisis at the time (wasn't the first in trouble Northern Rock??)

yes Northern Rock was an English bank that was bailed out using British Tax Payers money first; Lloyds of London has also been given british tax payers money as financial aid...and not for the first time i might add but strangely when a "scottish bank" receive financial aid everyone in england starts moaning.

 

i would also like to add that the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) is actually a public limited company which means it's technically not a fully fledged bank as say, The Bank of Scotland or the Bank of England for that matter.

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as for issues with scottish notes at the LFFC 2014 not being recognised, again this can be put down to poor training and a lack of basic education by SM to it's staff, something that can very easily be rectified as there are posters available from some of the banks, north and south of the border to explain the style and layout of non english notes.

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It just depends what happens after September, if nothing happens then that can be done. Even if a day or so before the event they get all the staff and volunteers together and maybe have a day long class somewhere and teach them about the Scottish money and how to recognize them so they know. They could even do role playing and so they can put themselves in the shoes of the fans and keep practicing till they get it right. It might not even take a full day, maybe just 9am till 12pm but as you say it's just educating they need, It's not their fault but we can change that and help them.

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It just depends what happens after September, if nothing happens then that can be done. Even if a day or so before the event they get all the staff and volunteers together and maybe have a day long class somewhere and teach them about the Scottish money and how to recognize them so they know. They could even do role playing and so they can put themselves in the shoes of the fans and keep practicing till they get it right. It might not even take a full day, maybe just 9am till 12pm but as you say it's just educating they need, It's not their fault but we can change that and help them.

they wouldnt even need that. a simple A4 sheet with miniaturised renditions of each type of Scottish bank note could be handed out to the staff or left at each desk where a guest was signing, all they would have to do was compare the note handed to them with the picture chart and do anti forgery tests and the problem is solved....whether SM want to solve the problem.... now that's another matter.

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Actually, if you had read the thread properly I think you'll find that I was replying to a post from 'Indestructible' - it was them who stated that it was the ENGLISH who had bailed out the SCOTTISH banks - I then ASKED what specifically Scottish banks were bailed out and you replied RBS.

 

Also, it was the whole banking sector that was in crisis at the time (wasn't the first in trouble Northern Rock??)

Actually I did read the thread properly and I'm quite aware of what you wrote and in reply to whom.

I've never said it was the English that bailed out the banks (you may note that in fact I agreed with you about it being UK taxpayers who did). And I've never claimed it was solely Scottish banks that were in trouble. I was merely replying to your request for a "specifically Scottish bank". RBS is a bank, it is pretty Scottish (or at least it was at that time) and "specifically" doesn't mean "exclusively".

I don't see anything wrong with my answer of "RBS" to your question, and that answer doesn't mean I disagree with any of the other points you've raised.

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Lloyds of London has also been given british tax payers money as financial aid...and not for the first time i might add but strangely when a "scottish bank" receive financial aid everyone in england starts moaning.

 

i would also like to add that the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS) is actually a public limited company which means it's technically not a fully fledged bank as say, The Bank of Scotland or the Bank of England for that matter.

 

I'm unaware of Lloyds of London being given taxpayers' money; are you confusing Lloyds of London (the insurance market) with Lloyds Banking Group, who were also bailed out by the taxpayer?

As to your sweeping statement about "everyone in england starts moaning", as somebody living in England, I can assure you that not "everybody in England" is moaning. And pretty much the only reason that RBS gets moaned about more than Lloyds is because it needed bailing out to a greater extent. Those that are moaning about RBS are moaning almost as much about Lloyds and are also moaning about Northern Rock. The other reason that RBS attracts more opprobrium is because dear old "Fred the Shred" had made such a big show of lavish expenditure before the crisis, and then tried to walk out with an obscenely large pension. By contrast, the top men at NR and Lloyds were much less flamboyant and contentious and so didn't draw anything like the media attention that Goodwin did to RBS. The moaning about RBS is not because they're Scottish, it's because they were the worst.

 

Not sure what you mean in your final point about RBS not being a "fully fledged bank" because it's a plc. Plenty of banks are plcs, and that doesn't make them any less "fully-fledged" than ones that aren't. I'll grant it's not a central ("national") bank like the Bank of England, but I would point out that the Bank of Scotland has been a plc since September 2007 (before the banking crisis). And since Bank of Scotland is part of Lloyds Banking Group, then effectively it too has had UK taxpayer bailout cash. (But people don't moan about BoS anything like as much as RBS, because it wasn't the "headline" name of the banking group being bailed out, and they had no Fred Goodwin character to attract public ire to the organisation).

 

And yeah, we're a long way off topic. Sorry. :whistling:

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Why are people calling them ENGLISH notes? Ok they may say Bank of England on them but they are produced at the Royal Mint which is located in WALES, so they are BRITISH notes and why is it that it seems to be ENGLISH retailers that have a problem with Scottish and Northern Ireland notes when we are at present still the same country and so they should be treated as such

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Why are people calling them ENGLISH notes? Ok they may say Bank of England on them but they are produced at the Royal Mint which is located in WALES, so they are BRITISH notes and why is it that it seems to be ENGLISH retailers that have a problem with Scottish and Northern Ireland notes when we are at present still the same country and so they should be treated as such

If we're "still the same country", why do you have different notes? :whistling:

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Theres having a debate and then theres trolling for a reaction.

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Theres having a debate and then theres trolling for a reaction.

If you're referring to my comment ... no.

 

There are two contradictory arguments coming from the Scots to the English, not just in this thread but in general. The first is that we are one country and should be treated as such, the second is that we are two seperate countries and should be treated as such.

The Scots can't have different bank notes and then expect an Englishman who's never seen them before to NOT question them. That's just silly. If the Scots want different bank notes, fine! No worries. But realise that they will cause problems South of the border. If the Scots don't want problems South of the border, don't have different currency. It can't be both ways.

"Here are our differences, we are proud of our differences. Oh my god, you're confused by our differences; racist!"

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Theres having a debate and then theres trolling for a reaction.

 

If you're referring to my comment ... no.

 

There are two contradictory arguments coming from the Scots to the English, not just in this thread but in general. The first is that we are one country and should be treated as such, the second is that we are two seperate countries and should be treated as such.

The Scots can't have different bank notes and then expect an Englishman who's never seen them before to NOT question them. That's just silly. If the Scots want different bank notes, fine! No worries. But realise that they will cause problems South of the border. If the Scots don't want problems South of the border, don't have different currency. It can't be both ways.

"Here are our differences, we are proud of our differences. Oh my god, you're confused by our differences; racist!"

Why should the scots have the same bank notes as the English ? Why not the English use our notes then problem solved ;-)

Edited by the batman

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Theres having a debate and then theres trolling for a reaction.

If you're referring to my comment ... no.

 

There are two contradictory arguments coming from the Scots to the English, not just in this thread but in general. The first is that we are one country and should be treated as such, the second is that we are two seperate countries and should be treated as such.

The Scots can't have different bank notes and then expect an Englishman who's never seen them before to NOT question them. That's just silly. If the Scots want different bank notes, fine! No worries. But realise that they will cause problems South of the border. If the Scots don't want problems South of the border, don't have different currency. It can't be both ways.

"Here are our differences, we are proud of our differences. Oh my god, you're confused by our differences; racist!"

Why should the scots have the same bank notes as the English ? Why not the English use our notes then problem solved ;-)

 

OK. I don't have a problem with that idea at all. :-)

My point isn't that our notes are "right" and yours are "wrong"; my point is that some Scots seem to look for any difference from the English that they can and then get annoyed when those differences cause problems. Let's all have the same notes, it make no difference to me what the design on them is as long as everyone can recognise them. :-)

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The Scots have 5 current series of bank notes whereas England just has the one. For an Englishman living in the South of England it is pretty unlikely that they will have ever seen a Scottish note, let alone be familiar with all of the different variations that there are so I don't think it is surprising or unacceptable that they would be questioned at a London venue.

 

From a practical standpoint in terms of an event, staff will not have handled Scottish bank notes with enough regularity to be able to spot an obvious forgery (forgery testing machines would be impractical at an event like this as they would slow everything down and you would need a large number of them, along with the fact that some Scottish notes currently in circulation would not pass standard automated forgery tests) so I do not think it is unfair that they would take a bit longer to question and scrutinise them.

 

If Scots are so steadfastly of the opinion that they are separate and should have their own notes, then following that logic along you must then think that England should have its own notes, and surely then if you want to spend money there you should expect to use English notes, right? If you see them as different countries that require different currency, then you should get out local money just like you would if travelling to another country like France.

 

Granted I am biassed on this issue as when I have travelled to Scotland I have had no problem using English notes whatsoever. I imagine this is due to the fact that there are vastly more Bank of England in circulation than any of the Scottish bank ones, and also Scotland has cross pollination of notes from England as opposed to the other way round where only people in the North of England may have come into frequent contact with them.

 

Lastly, just pointing out that all of this talk about "English" notes is not really correct, as although they are issued by the Bank of England this is the central bank for the UK. These "Bank of England" notes should really be seen as the official "UK" notes with the NI and Scottish ones being just regional variants that are additionally issued in specific areas. Who knows though, maybe by next year it will be irrelevant and the Scottish visitors will have to trade in some of their boring, continent standardised Euros for some good old great British Pound Sterling notes ;) .

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Why are people calling them ENGLISH notes? Ok they may say Bank of England on them but they are produced at the Royal Mint which is located in WALES

Nope, the Royal Mint produces coins. Bank Of England banknotes are printed by De La Rue at their secure printing facility in Debden, Essex.

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Theres having a debate and then theres trolling for a reaction.

If you're referring to my comment ... no.

 

There are two contradictory arguments coming from the Scots to the English, not just in this thread but in general. The first is that we are one country and should be treated as such, the second is that we are two seperate countries and should be treated as such.

The Scots can't have different bank notes and then expect an Englishman who's never seen them before to NOT question them. That's just silly. If the Scots want different bank notes, fine! No worries. But realise that they will cause problems South of the border. If the Scots don't want problems South of the border, don't have different currency. It can't be both ways.

"Here are our differences, we are proud of our differences. Oh my god, you're confused by our differences; racist!"

Why should the scots have the same bank notes as the English ? Why not the English use our notes then problem solved ;-)

 

OK. I don't have a problem with that idea at all. :-)

My point isn't that our notes are "right" and yours are "wrong"; my point is that some Scots seem to look for any difference from the English that they can and then get annoyed when those differences cause problems. Let's all have the same notes, it make no difference to me what the design on them is as long as everyone can recognise them. :-)

 

The "Scots" dont have to look for differences at all, we have a separate legal system and a separate education system and until recently a separate language

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The Scots have 5 current series of bank notes whereas England just has the one. For an Englishman living in the South of England it is pretty unlikely that they will have ever seen a Scottish note, let alone be familiar with all of the different variations that there are so I don't think it is surprising or unacceptable that they would be questioned at a London venue.

 

From a practical standpoint in terms of an event, staff will not have handled Scottish bank notes with enough regularity to be able to spot an obvious forgery (forgery testing machines would be impractical at an event like this as they would slow everything down and you would need a large number of them, along with the fact that some Scottish notes currently in circulation would not pass standard automated forgery tests) so I do not think it is unfair that they would take a bit longer to question and scrutinise them.

 

If Scots are so steadfastly of the opinion that they are separate and should have their own notes, then following that logic along you must then think that England should have its own notes, and surely then if you want to spend money there you should expect to use English notes, right? If you see them as different countries that require different currency, then you should get out local money just like you would if travelling to another country like France.

 

Granted I am biassed on this issue as when I have travelled to Scotland I have had no problem using English notes whatsoever. I imagine this is due to the fact that there are vastly more Bank of England in circulation than any of the Scottish bank ones, and also Scotland has cross pollination of notes from England as opposed to the other way round where only people in the North of England may have come into frequent contact with them.

 

Lastly, just pointing out that all of this talk about "English" notes is not really correct, as although they are issued by the Bank of England this is the central bank for the UK. These "Bank of England" notes should really be seen as the official "UK" notes with the NI and Scottish ones being just regional variants that are additionally issued in specific areas. Who knows though, maybe by next year it will be irrelevant and the Scottish visitors will have to trade in some of their boring, continent standardised Euros for some good old great British Pound Sterling notes ;) .

scotland has 5 different types of bank notes? please name them as i have only been living in scotland for 40 years...clydesdale bank, RoBS and BoS come to mind but i'd love to know the other two that you have added to the list.

 

Scottish notes have the same anti-forgery features as english notes so this comment that they wouldnt pass inspection is nonsense. im glad you havent had any issues with english notes in scottish shops and stores, i guess that means that scottish retailers are more educated than their english counterparts ;)

 

you then talk about people coming to england using english notes and people going to scotland should use their local currency, fair enough but surely since you are keen on the idea of a united kingdom, then all notes should be accepted and respected regardless of which part of the country you are in.

 

if English notes were the "official currency" then there wouldnt be these issues but since there is no bank of Great Britain or United Kingdom then there is no standardised currency.

 

oh and one more thing, tory propaganda about scotland being independant and having the euro is absolute rubbish, as we have already established in this thread, Scotland already has its own banking and independant currency system

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scotland has 5 different types of bank notes? please name them as i have only been living in scotland for 40 years...clydesdale bank, RoBS and BoS come to mind but i'd love to know the other two that you have added to the list.

 

Scottish notes have the same anti-forgery features as english notes so this comment that they wouldnt pass inspection is nonsense. im glad you havent had any issues with english notes in scottish shops and stores, i guess that means that scottish retailers are more educated than their english counterparts ;)

 

you then talk about people coming to england using english notes and people going to scotland should use their local currency, fair enough but surely since you are keen on the idea of a united kingdom, then all notes should be accepted and respected regardless of which part of the country you are in.

 

if English notes were the "official currency" then there wouldnt be these issues but since there is no bank of Great Britain or United Kingdom then there is no standardised currency.

 

oh and one more thing, tory propaganda about scotland being independant and having the euro is absolute rubbish, as we have already established in this thread, Scotland already has its own banking and independant currency system

 

 

The five types are Bridges, Tercentenary, Famous Scots, World Heritage and RBS. The first two pairs are made by BOS and Clydesdale respectively, but they look totally different to each other so would complicate the issue for people not familiar with them.

 

As for the forgery tests, older Scottish notes that are still in circulation (Bridges definitely, possible Famous Scots) would not necessarily pass current forgery tests, as I believe they are missing the metal thread and the UV fluorescent ink. This means that the go/no go type tester that you hold the note under and it test for the magnetic strip, fluorescent ink and dimensions would register these notes as forgeries. The pen type testers would work, but people can relatively easily make forgeries that pass this test anyway by using paper that doesn't contain starch. Also, you end up with that yellow smear across the note which I really hate, and have ended up getting stains on a shirt when I put a tested note in my chest pocket so I really hate them.

 

Personally I am of the opinion that if we are a United Kingdom we should have one series of bank notes for the whole of the UK as to me the current system seems a bit fascicle. If they can be used in any place in the UK, why bother printing different ones locally? It isn't like Scotland is an OST so there is no logistical problem, hell they could just print the same notes locally if that is the issue. I can understand that Scottish/Northern Irish may object to the notes saying "England" but I guarantee that if this was changed to UK you still would want to keep your own notes. As a concession you can whack whatever random figure you want on the back, but I think the format and the front should be the same for any note in the UK, how about that?

 

As for what would happen to Scottish currency after potential independence, the UK has already ruled out a currency union between an independent Scotland and the UK, and Alex Salmond has said that his plan in this case would be to unilaterally keep using the pound any way in a process call "sterlingistation" which would have massive negative financial implications for Scotland and Scottish companies. As for the Euro thing, Salmond has said that Scotland would stay in the EU after independence, but this is not true and several EU nations have said they would veto this, meaning that Scotland would have to reapply and hence would be forced to accept the Euro. This is not "Tory propaganda" these are facts, as opposed to Salmond's hopes and wishes.

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Theres having a debate and then theres trolling for a reaction.

If you're referring to my comment ... no.

 

There are two contradictory arguments coming from the Scots to the English, not just in this thread but in general. The first is that we are one country and should be treated as such, the second is that we are two seperate countries and should be treated as such.

The Scots can't have different bank notes and then expect an Englishman who's never seen them before to NOT question them. That's just silly. If the Scots want different bank notes, fine! No worries. But realise that they will cause problems South of the border. If the Scots don't want problems South of the border, don't have different currency. It can't be both ways.

"Here are our differences, we are proud of our differences. Oh my god, you're confused by our differences; racist!"

Why should the scots have the same bank notes as the English ? Why not the English use our notes then problem solved ;-)

 

OK. I don't have a problem with that idea at all. :-)

My point isn't that our notes are "right" and yours are "wrong"; my point is that some Scots seem to look for any difference from the English that they can and then get annoyed when those differences cause problems. Let's all have the same notes, it make no difference to me what the design on them is as long as everyone can recognise them. :-)

 

The "Scots" dont have to look for differences at all, we have a separate legal system and a separate education system and until recently a separate language

 

I'm not saying you *have* to look for differences, I am saying that some Scottish people go out of their way to find any difference they can and then use that difference as a catalyst for getting annoyed at the English.

As I said before, I'm not saying you have to accept "our ways" or that the seperate Scottish legal system is "wrong" or anything like that. I am pointing out that some Scottish people deliberately make a point of causing problems. 50 years ago, there were no problems with a seperate legal system, seperate education system or even different bank notes. It's only in the past 15-20 years that **some** Scottish people have got upset about it.

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