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Thoughts about show after our debrief & how to move forward

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Can you please view MY opinion as based on my experience and my £££ please? Hey, if SM could lower all the prices so I could get all the photos and autographs I wanted then great! And if the dealers could lower their prices so I could get more merchandise too, that would be fantastic.

 

My opinion isn't based on being a moderator. It's as someone who has attended these events for 11 years. SM will keep prices where they can for as long as possible, but sometimes things have to change.

 

But hey I'm just a mod who isn't allowed an opinion right ;)

You can hold whatever opinion you want but every opinion you seem to hold is the opposite of the overwhlming majority on this forum but coincidentily all those opinions favour showmasters. and when those opposing opinions are hid from view it is hard to think we are being heard. Of all the problems last weekend do you not notice that i am not criticising sm, big cons beget big problems and i have said multiple times that i give the benifit of the doubt that sm will get it right in the future. Plus i have always stated that i enjoy the events. but you argue that censoring the views of sm customers is right, you state that raising prices and creating new tiers of tickets is right, you continuingly state that having concerns and criticisms is "making trouble" that repeatedly asking for clarification to questions that go unanwsered is "making trouble" and grounds for post removal and even account banning. How can any free thinking person think that is a corect strategy for any company to take. I have never, not once swore or insulted anyone on these forums and yet the other day you refeered to me as "peope like yourself causing trouble" just because i thought customers deserved to have their concerns left in view. Is anything i have said to you that bad reeally? i think no yet you are continuously sly and dismissive to me in your anwsers. I can tell that you think i am "making trouble" when all i am doing is ssupporting what 100s of thousands af men and women died fighting to give us- a free country with right of reply and yet that will no doubt end with my account being suspended because sm don't want to hear it.

 

Seriously, when things end up being referred back to war and stuff like that, don't you think they might be getting a LITTLE out of hand? Let's get a bit of perspective on all this please.

 

In the end, it's an Internet message board. Plenty of stuff is still on this forum that if we were such 'Nazis' or whatever else we get called would have been removed instantly. Whether you agree with the other removals is irrelevant, but please don't make us out to be the most evil people on the planet. Like I said - it's an Internet message board and not worth all this hassle in the end.

 

When did i refer to mods as "the most evil people on the planet"? when did i refer to mods as "nazi's"? refering to free speech and the right of reply is not refering to "war" as you put it but refering to why we have free speech and the right of reply but of course you stating these things allows you not to answer the questions i asked you.

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Can you please view MY opinion as based on my experience and my £££ please? Hey, if SM could lower all the prices so I could get all the photos and autographs I wanted then great! And if the dealers could lower their prices so I could get more merchandise too, that would be fantastic.

 

My opinion isn't based on being a moderator. It's as someone who has attended these events for 11 years. SM will keep prices where they can for as long as possible, but sometimes things have to change.

 

But hey I'm just a mod who isn't allowed an opinion right ;)

You can hold whatever opinion you want but every opinion you seem to hold is the opposite of the overwhlming majority on this forum but coincidentily all those opinions favour showmasters. and when those opposing opinions are hid from view it is hard to think we are being heard. Of all the problems last weekend do you not notice that i am not criticising sm, big cons beget big problems and i have said multiple times that i give the benifit of the doubt that sm will get it right in the future. Plus i have always stated that i enjoy the events. but you argue that censoring the views of sm customers is right, you state that raising prices and creating new tiers of tickets is right, you continuingly state that having concerns and criticisms is "making trouble" that repeatedly asking for clarification to questions that go unanwsered is "making trouble" and grounds for post removal and even account banning. How can any free thinking person think that is a corect strategy for any company to take. I have never, not once swore or insulted anyone on these forums and yet the other day you refeered to me as "peope like yourself causing trouble" just because i thought customers deserved to have their concerns left in view. Is anything i have said to you that bad reeally? i think no yet you are continuously sly and dismissive to me in your anwsers. I can tell that you think i am "making trouble" when all i am doing is ssupporting what 100s of thousands af men and women died fighting to give us- a free country with right of reply and yet that will no doubt end with my account being suspended because sm don't want to hear it.

 

Why do people need to bring up the "I have a right because people died for it". It seriously takes things too far, this is not some Nazi forum or some pro-political forum. This is SM forum, they can do what they want in regards to censorship you make it sound like they have no freedom of speech here, yet there are complaints unbanned on the forum's still, sure we may not like all of how they censor but if you don't like it either make your own forum or accept SM forum. I may be going off topic but it seriously grinds me when people use the soldier excuse in an argument. Rant Over

 

I seriously cannot fathom why someone could write a post like this. All i am stating is that we the customers should have right of reply, something we as British citizens are guarenteed by law and yet you (a customer) are slating me for pointing that out. Baffalling. " Turkeys voting for Christmas" comes to mind.

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Actually, at the current rate, that is GBP 43.85, so still cheaper.

 

Thanks Robert.

 

The price is $65 which is £38.02.

 

This is their autograph service, so perhaps the show fee will be even less.

Plus $20 entry fee, plus £850 to fly to LA!

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back up your myth theory with numbers Stan Lee was way more expensive in the big apple in October 13. $75.

 

Actually, at the current rate, that is GBP 43.85, so still cheaper.

Plus $60 entry ticket and $5 for the photo so not cheaper at all

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Increasing costs as a way of crowd control is both lazy and unethical. It would be a shot in the foot and the final nail for some. Do people not keep up with current affairs? This way of thinking is outmoded and is failing across the globe. SM don't want to increase cost, the fans don't want increased cost so hey, how about not increasing the costs?

 

Of course people pay only what they can afford, not sure that is the issue here. Bigger boat, more people, same price but still more profit, everyone is happy. Jeez, it's not rocket science!

Sorry but your solution will not create less demand at the autograph lines - epic fail Edited by phillycheesesteak

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Anyone who thinks there's free speech on the internet is fooling themselves. This forum is run by Showmasters, they can do whatever they like with it. Delete posts, edit posts, ban people, all without having to give any explanation. Most of the time they at least say why things have been deleted. You may not like it, and plenty of people don't, and I even have friends who have been banned from here for what I'd call legitimate grievances from previous events but that's just the way it is.

 

By signing up here you agree to the T&Cs. Whether anyone reads them or not doesn't make a difference. Ignorance is no defence. Play by the rules, whether you agree to them or not or face the consequences.

 

I agree it can be frustrating when things get deleted, especially if they're making a reasonable point but there's still a lot of legitimate issues, problems and questions being left on here and what I'd class as negative discussion. I can be as critical as anyone and I feel I have the right to be having attended these events since 2003 but I know what I can and can't say on here.

 

Ultimately SM don't have to listen to anyone. It's good business practice for a company to listen to it's customers and adapt accordingly and I'm yet to be assured that all the issues raised have been noted but there's no requirement that they come on here and respond to every point. It's entirely up to them. If that approach makes someone decide not to attend any further events then that's up to them but this is not a place where anything goes.

Edited by Rockstar6662

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Increasing costs as a way of crowd control is both lazy and unethical. It would be a shot in the foot and the final nail for some. Do people not keep up with current affairs? This way of thinking is outmoded and is failing across the globe. SM don't want to increase cost, the fans don't want increased cost so hey, how about not increasing the costs?

 

Of course people pay only what they can afford, not sure that is the issue here. Bigger boat, more people, same price but still more profit, everyone is happy. Jeez, it's not rocket science!

Sorry but your solution will not create less demand at the autograph lines - epic fail

 

do you think Showmasters want less demand at autograph lines? healthy demand means more cons in future, just better organisation of those queues is whats needed and will no doubt happen.. and is there really any need for the "epic fail" quote? thats IS the sort of thing this forum can do without.

Edited by cropsy2008
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Anyone who thinks there's free speech on the internet is fooling themselves. This forum is run by Showmasters, they can do whatever they like with it. Delete posts, edit posts, ban people, all without having to give any explanation. Most of the time they at least say why things have been deleted. You may not like it, and plenty of people don't, and I even have friends who have been banned from here for what I'd call legitimate grievances from previous events but that's just the way it is.

 

By signing up here you agree to the T&Cs. Whether anyone reads them or not doesn't make a difference. Ignorance is no defence. Play by the rules, whether you agree to them or not or face the consequences.

 

I agree it can be frustrating when things get deleted, especially if they're making a reasonable point but there's still a lot of legitimate issues, problems and questions being left on here and what I'd class as negative discussion. I can be as critical as anyone and I feel I have the right to be having attended these events since 2003 but I know what I can and can't say on here.

 

Ultimately SM don't have to listen to anyone. It's good business practice for a company to listen to it's customers and adapt accordingly and I'm yet to be assured that all the issues raised have been noted but there's no requirement that they come on here and respond to every point. It's entirely up to them. If that approach makes someone decide not to attend any further events then that's up to them but this is not a place where anything goes.

No one is asking for anything goes, clearly swearing and insults should be removed and repeated offenders banned and tbf i see very little of that here so the mods do thier job well but just because sm don't allow some posts to stay and some voices to be heard does not mean they should'nt.

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The thread is starting to derail a little on to prices in general.

 

My points have never been that a business can't plan to make a healthy profit, nor that prices should be subsidised. As costs go up so should prices.

 

My point has simply been that the people you meet at sci fi events around tend to be lovely people - although there is one on this thread I don't think I'd get on with.

 

You don't "win" the event by leaving with more stuff than anyone else and photos I got signed last weekend wouldn't make me happy without being able to tell my friends a little bit of an anecdote about how I got them. Good anecdotes do not start with " My credit card had a higher limit than everyone else and so XXXX was contractually obliged to smile at me and write their name."

 

Even the disappointments of cons make good stories and end with "I hope I get chance to do it next time."

 

The natural cycle of capitalism is that something starts small and idealistic, gets big, compromises its ideals, then eventually loses the plot, forgets customer service and finally goes into decline.

 

The best thing to do right now is find a way to make next years show work for all.

The wrong thing to do is to decide it's ok to exclude people based on income.

 

I'm hoping for the best.

 

Craig

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Can you please view MY opinion as based on my experience and my £££ please? Hey, if SM could lower all the prices so I could get all the photos and autographs I wanted then great! And if the dealers could lower their prices so I could get more merchandise too, that would be fantastic.

 

My opinion isn't based on being a moderator. It's as someone who has attended these events for 11 years. SM will keep prices where they can for as long as possible, but sometimes things have to change.

 

But hey I'm just a mod who isn't allowed an opinion right ;)

To be fair you & anyone who works for SM or Volunteers for them is allowed an opinion obviously the same as everyone ... but that opinion would be by default bias in the defence of SM because you wouldn't want to ruin your relationship or lose your position as a mod or twitter controller so will always see the positive side more so

 

I have posted good and bad points about this event so obviously sit on the fence about it's success as got everything I wanted from it but at the same time can see where improvements are to be made but if I was employed by SM I can well imagine my posts would sway more in favour than sit on the fence

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Anyone who thinks there's free speech on the internet is fooling themselves. This forum is run by Showmasters, they can do whatever they like with it. Delete posts, edit posts, ban people, all without having to give any explanation. Most of the time they at least say why things have been deleted. You may not like it, and plenty of people don't, and I even have friends who have been banned from here for what I'd call legitimate grievances from previous events but that's just the way it is.

 

By signing up here you agree to the T&Cs. Whether anyone reads them or not doesn't make a difference. Ignorance is no defence. Play by the rules, whether you agree to them or not or face the consequences.

 

I agree it can be frustrating when things get deleted, especially if they're making a reasonable point but there's still a lot of legitimate issues, problems and questions being left on here and what I'd class as negative discussion. I can be as critical as anyone and I feel I have the right to be having attended these events since 2003 but I know what I can and can't say on here.

 

Ultimately SM don't have to listen to anyone. It's good business practice for a company to listen to it's customers and adapt accordingly and I'm yet to be assured that all the issues raised have been noted but there's no requirement that they come on here and respond to every point. It's entirely up to them. If that approach makes someone decide not to attend any further events then that's up to them but this is not a place where anything goes.

No one is asking for anything goes, clearly swearing and insults should be removed and repeated offenders banned and tbf i see very little of that here so the mods do thier job well but just because sm don't allow some posts to stay and some voices to be heard does not mean they should'nt.

 

I say again, it's their forum, they have control they can do what they like with it. You may think that's morally wrong and they shouldn't be afraid of leaving critical comments on here. I don't disagree but that's not how it works and it's much the same on any moderated forum, some are just more flexible than others.

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Plus $20 entry fee,

 

 

Which is £11.70.

 

Which again is cheaper. There seems to be a theme running here.

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Prices, prices, prices. They are set as best as they can be I'm sure. You might say x guest is cheaper in US but then you have to factor in flights to get there and somewhere to stay. Plenty are also more expensive there than SM have charged. I know this first hand.

 

I felt certain guests were over priced at LFCC and I decided not to meet them for that reason and some were possibly undervalued but it's all personal perspective and we don't know what fees are involved, costs of flights/hotels etc and what is needed to recoup those costs based on how many people the guest may be expected to sign for.

 

Yes it would be great if everyone was £10 but that's not reality. Every time there's a new big guest announcement people say silly things like Harrison Ford, Stallone etc. Have you any idea what they would charge? If they would even do an event like that. It wouldn't be £45 per autograph or even £60. It'd more likely be in the £300 range or more. Would people be happy? No, they'd say they were being priced out of meeting that person and blame it on SM. It may get to the point that SM can negotiate for people of that calibre but it'll come at a huge cost and probably be very limited signing time etc so just think of the complaints then.

 

The prices are what they are. Pay or don't. I had to cull a lot of guests from my want to meet list this year because of it.

Edited by Rockstar6662
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The thread is starting to derail a little on to prices in general.

 

My points have never been that a business can't plan to make a healthy profit, nor that prices should be subsidised. As costs go up so should prices.

 

My point has simply been that the people you meet at sci fi events around tend to be lovely people - although there is one on this thread I don't think I'd get on with.

 

You don't "win" the event by leaving with more stuff than anyone else and photos I got signed last weekend wouldn't make me happy without being able to tell my friends a little bit of an anecdote about how I got them. Good anecdotes do not start with " My credit card had a higher limit than everyone else and so XXXX was contractually obliged to smile at me and write their name."

 

Even the disappointments of cons make good stories and end with "I hope I get chance to do it next time."

 

The natural cycle of capitalism is that something starts small and idealistic, gets big, compromises its ideals, then eventually loses the plot, forgets customer service and finally goes into decline.

 

The best thing to do right now is find a way to make next years show work for all.

The wrong thing to do is to decide it's ok to exclude people based on income.

 

I'm hoping for the best.

 

Craig

I think you are right on most of that. Clearly the name of the game for any buisness is to make money but lets say for instance Mark Hamill showed up next year and his auto/photo price was £80 then a guarenteed package for either auto pr photo should only be say £5/£10 dearer at most i would have thought. and lets say if he can only reasonably get through 600 autos or 1000 photos then about 40% of that should only be available to these guarenteed packages. That way thir are other ways for people to get his auto/photo providing they do the smart thing and get there early. If 100% of those autos/photos are "guarenteed" and are say £100 or more then clearly the whole event will become elitist and big guests only available to the wealthier.

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Increasing costs as a way of crowd control is both lazy and unethical. It would be a shot in the foot and the final nail for some. Do people not keep up with current affairs? This way of thinking is outmoded and is failing across the globe. SM don't want to increase cost, the fans don't want increased cost so hey, how about not increasing the costs?

 

Of course people pay only what they can afford, not sure that is the issue here. Bigger boat, more people, same price but still more profit, everyone is happy. Jeez, it's not rocket science!

 

Sorry but your solution will not create less demand at the autograph lines - epic fail

do you think Showmasters want less demand at autograph lines? healthy demand means more cons in future, just better organisation of those queues is whats needed and will no doubt happen.. and is there really any need for the "epic fail" quote? thats IS the sort of thing this forum can do without.

In fairness when someone is being a smarty pants and saying "jeez, it's not rocket science" then they deserve a bit of gentle banter

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Being a big horror fan my guests are never really that expensive anyway :dance::clap: i would however sell the clothes of my back if they charged £100 for John Carpenter. hint hint.

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Increasing costs as a way of crowd control is both lazy and unethical. It would be a shot in the foot and the final nail for some. Do people not keep up with current affairs? This way of thinking is outmoded and is failing across the globe. SM don't want to increase cost, the fans don't want increased cost so hey, how about not increasing the costs?

 

Of course people pay only what they can afford, not sure that is the issue here. Bigger boat, more people, same price but still more profit, everyone is happy. Jeez, it's not rocket science!

Sorry but your solution will not create less demand at the autograph lines - epic fail
do you think Showmasters want less demand at autograph lines? healthy demand means more cons in future, just better organisation of those queues is whats needed and will no doubt happen.. and is there really any need for the "epic fail" quote? thats IS the sort of thing this forum can do without.

In fairness when someone is being a smarty pants and saying "jeez, it's not rocket science" then they deserve a bit of gentle banter

 

fair dos pal, i missed that bit. We all should get along though, i bet we would if we we're all in the pub(as long as we all agree that Star Trek is better than Star Wars :smile: )

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Said it before... will say it again... I think everything worked great for Gold Ticket holders. Just limit the numbers of walk ins and everything will be fine. Everything else was sorted perfectly. I really think so.

 

Why you feel the need to repeat the fact you were a gold ticket holder is beyond me. Nobody cares if you were gold ticket holder, just repeating it makes you appear snobbish.

 

What i'm concerned about is all the suggestions mixed with other comments in this thread are going to get missed and forgotten as we are now on 22 pages.

Edited by Clarkey
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Increasing costs as a way of crowd control is both lazy and unethical. It would be a shot in the foot and the final nail for some. Do people not keep up with current affairs? This way of thinking is outmoded and is failing across the globe. SM don't want to increase cost, the fans don't want increased cost so hey, how about not increasing the costs?

 

Of course people pay only what they can afford, not sure that is the issue here. Bigger boat, more people, same price but still more profit, everyone is happy. Jeez, it's not rocket science!

 

Sorry but your solution will not create less demand at the autograph lines - epic fail
do you think Showmasters want less demand at autograph lines? healthy demand means more cons in future, just better organisation of those queues is whats needed and will no doubt happen.. and is there really any need for the "epic fail" quote? thats IS the sort of thing this forum can do without.
In fairness when someone is being a smarty pants and saying "jeez, it's not rocket science" then they deserve a bit of gentle banter

fair dos pal, i missed that bit. We all should get along though, i bet we would if we we're all in the pub(as long as we all agree that Star Trek is better than Star Wars :smile: )
Haha - look I don't want to fall out with people I don't know, I'm not affiliated with showmasters other than as a fee paying customer. Everytime I put an opinion on the forum I get nothing but stick. I'm not ramming it down anyone's neck - but the usual backlash always seem determined to hammer down opinions on here.

 

Edit: please do not insult other forum members. Thank you.

Edited by 1of2
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Increasing costs as a way of crowd control is both lazy and unethical. It would be a shot in the foot and the final nail for some. Do people not keep up with current affairs? This way of thinking is outmoded and is failing across the globe. SM don't want to increase cost, the fans don't want increased cost so hey, how about not increasing the costs?

 

Of course people pay only what they can afford, not sure that is the issue here. Bigger boat, more people, same price but still more profit, everyone is happy. Jeez, it's not rocket science!

Sorry but your solution will not create less demand at the autograph lines - epic fail
do you think Showmasters want less demand at autograph lines? healthy demand means more cons in future, just better organisation of those queues is whats needed and will no doubt happen.. and is there really any need for the "epic fail" quote? thats IS the sort of thing this forum can do without.

In fairness when someone is being a smarty pants and saying "jeez, it's not rocket science" then they deserve a bit of gentle banter

fair dos pal, i missed that bit. We all should get along though, i bet we would if we we're all in the pub(as long as we all agree that Star Trek is better than Star Wars :smile: )

Haha - look I don't want to fall out with people I don't know, I'm not affiliated with showmasters other than as a fee paying customer. Everytime I put an opinion on the forum I get nothing but stick. I'm not ramming it down anyone's neck - but the usual backlash always seem determined to hammer down opinions on here.

 

I truly believe that SM should just get rid of the forum as a huge percentage of users are bullies and quite frankly appear to be jobless, feckless and rude!

 

Can't say i had much grief on here to be honest and i come on here all times of day because i my job allows me to. There may be a bit of heatedneess after a con but in general these forums are great, nothing like hearing an announcement of a great guest.

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Just had an idea that might help future shows. Summer Glau was one of the busiest guests last weekend but could only physically get through so many autos in a day. So what if in future Showmasters sent out to guests like Summer (known busy guests) 500/1000 stills in the week or two before an event that she could pre sign. That sounds impersonal but what if an hour a day was set aside like a photo shoot where people would queue and the guest could give out the still and say a quick thank you for coming or a handshake, it would be no more impersonal or longer than a photo shoot. Now i know the majority of us on this forum would rather meet at the desk at get a personalisation but we still could. but if the price of the pre signed was £5 cheaper many would still pay for that and i bet most of the walkins would too, and its clearly btter than nothing and would allow showmasters to get

 

More people to see the guest.

more people to get an auto

from a buisness standpoint it would certainly allow for more autos to be sold.

 

As long as it would be done after say 2pm it could work. Less people would complain about missing guests too. id say about an extra 50% autos could be sold. I missed out on Carrie Fisher and would have certainly taken this option rather than miss out.

Edited by cropsy2008
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Can't we all just agree to disagree?

 

I mean, there is a lot of bad stuff going on in the world right now which puts all this in perspective.

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Just had an idea that might help future shows. Summer Glau was one of the busiest guests last weekend but could only physically get through so many autos in a day. So what if in future Showmasters sent out to guests like Summer (known busy guests) 500/1000 stills in the week or two before an event that she could pre sign. That sounds impersonal but what if an hour a day was set aside like a photo shoot where people would queue and the guest could give out the still and say a quick thank you for coming or a handshake, it would be no more impersonal or longer than a photo shoot. Now i know the majority of us on this forum would rather meet at the desk at get a personalisation but we still could. but if the price of the pre signed was £5 cheaper many would still pay for that and i bet most of the walkins would too, and its clearly btter than nothing and would allow showmasters to get

 

More people to see the guest.

more people to get an auto

from a buisness standpoint it would certainly allow for more autos to be sold.

 

As long as it would be done after say 2pm it could work. Less people would complain about missing guests too. id say about an extra 50% autos could be sold. I missed out on Carrie Fisher and would have certainly taken this option rather than miss out.

They did something a little like this many years ago at the Milton Keynes show when James Marsters was there. Not sure exactly which show but it was either 2007 or 2008. The queues were massive, VTs off the scale but there was a crew member at the end of the queue selling pre-signed 10x8s. Only time I'm aware it's happened as I got one as I was really late getting there.

 

Not sure how I feel about it really. Surely the whole point is to go and meet the guest but I took one as there was no chance of me meeting him that day. But it's not a lot different to buying from a dealer. Very impersonal and I'd rather meet the guest to know it's genuine and have that experience. It's not entirely just about the autograph for me otherwise I'd just pre-order everything I wanted.

 

But with your idea what if the only time someone could join the queue to meet them was during the period that this "hand out" thing was going on? Wouldn't really be fair would it? It's often towards the end of the day when queues go open and it's easier for anyone to actually go and meet the guest. Maybe something to think about though.

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Plus $20 entry fee,

 

 

Which is £11.70.

 

Which again is cheaper. There seems to be a theme running here.

 

 

Only cheaper than the Early Bird ticket and Gold Passes.

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