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Star Trek Into Darkness (big spoilers)

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I went to watch this last night, thought it was excellent, really good movie, good action, interesting plot that felt star trek, good actors, good score. lens flair didnt seem as bad as the 1st movie.

and surprisingly despite ripping off wrath of Khan an awful lot which should of outraged me, I found myself ok with what they were doing, most of it is the same but role reversed (the stuff they ripp off) unfortunatly you see a lot of it coming and the spock Khan!!! line was awful, cringe worthy, I dont think you will find any real trek fan who liked that bit. but the glass scene was really good.

saying all this, I really did like it, I loved how they wove in so much trek lore/trekkie bits into it including the 5 year mission.

really like kirk ladies man bits, as he talks to spock on the way to see pike he finds time to introduce himself to a couple of ladies en route, and is seen in bed with 2 hot girls with tails. interesting to see how that plays out with carol in the future.

really liked all the McCoy methores and kirk saying about it.

so happy peter weller had a bigger part. was impressed with his end considering the kiddy rating. sad to see pike go :-(

great seeing nimoy pop up, they should really reccord a load of stuff with him now for the future, just little bits they can add in here and there maybe.

 

things I want to see though, more of the goldsmith motion picture theme score heard briefly at the end

more aliens used a bit better (although saying this, the klingons in this were much better than I had feared they would be) more klingons. the aliens t the start seemed good but the ones on the enterprise and in the bars seemed lazy in their realisation.

more bones (ive heard ppl say he was working on another film at the same time (dredd? not sure) although he still does pop up enough.

 

 

though I cant wait for more movies, the way it ends you find yourself wanting to see a 24 ep series with them on their mission lol.

 

I found myself wishing kirk had replied with the peter pan line at the end though, considering how much has been lifted from past moves, it would have fitted in fine and seemed the perfect line to go out on from that scene.

 

will be very interesting to see where they go for the next movie esp with them announcing it will be in the 50th anny year and with JJ comitted to star wars.

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Hi, enjoyed the film too. It does make me want to watch Wrath of Khan again, so that I can compare and contrast.

 

I agree that the lens flare was less, did make me smile every time it happened!

 

It was good to see Noel Clarke there too. :smile:

 

I can also see Benedict's point about him not really being a bad guy. The worst person was the admiral.

 

My favourite character is Chekov. I loved the scenes with him.

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Saw this movie yesterday and just loved it. Saw in 2D as not a fan of 3D movies. But would be interested in knowing other peoples opinion, was it any good in 3D or Imax? I do feel 3D is a massive Rip off. It would be good to see the New cast at any of SM Shows, maybe they are working on it? :smile:

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humm, I think Khan is a bad guy, although not entirely clear in the film, much like before his goal is racial purity commiting geonocide to all others, howwever, he was mistreated, used and created for bad reasons. so although not black and white baddie, he is pretty bad lol.

 

I saw it in 3D but only cos that was the next showing coming on, Im not a fan of 3d, It strains my eyes and half the time you cant notice its 3D and the picture colour quality drops. i want 3d flying out of the screen other wise i feel its pointless, saying that, flying out of the screen isnt what you want from a lot of movies. rarely do you get it anyway, most these days is depth.

 

i have a cineworld card so 3d is free for me, I may of waited an hour for the 2d showing if it wasnt included in my card.

 

 

i like chekov also, I was certain he was gonna die in this, glad he didnt.

 

 

some of the stuff they ripped off from wrath of khan was outrageous audasity, but somehow I was rolling with it, I think into darkness balanced the star wars element with star trek even better than trek 2009 did. however spock screaming khan was cringing, i hated that, i saw it coming and was like NOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I wanted kirk to shout it at some point, I dunno as hes being transported back to the enterprise, or not at all.

 

even the admiral wasnt all bad, he had reasons which arnt too far fetched, but his actions were too extreeme.making him a bad guy.

 

kirk dieing in the spock khan way you could see coming and you could also see coming his revival, wish they had not had the tribble scene, or not explained it, maybe kirk asks and bones says gotta hunch or just experimenting or something like that, cos as soon as he mentions what he is doing you think, ok thats gonna come back saving someone at some point.

 

some niggles, surely leaving the damaged shuttle on the planet at the start is worse than them seeing the enterprise? ordid it vaporise? seemed there might be some cut scenes around the start of the movie.

what they can and cant do with the transporters seemes a bit well they can do whatever the script needs them to do rather than any specific rules.

I would have liked to see the enterprise put up a little bit more of a fight against the veangence. but maybe im nit picking, cos i really did enjoy this movie.

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Saw it this morning. It was an excellent film. I'm not a fan of 3d films but the 3d was brilliant. Cast obviously know their characters very well, loved all the comments related to old Trek. Soundtrack was superb.

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Just come back from seeing it and i have to say I really enjoyed it. I know what people mean about Spock shouting the Khan line, it was cheesy and a bit silly but in some respects I was expecting to hear it so much it might almost have been strange if it didn't crop up at some point. I also felt Quinto seemed a bit more settled in this film which was good to see. Cumberbatch was very good as well.

 

I saw it in 3D and I don't think it really added to it, in fact I felt at times the screen seemed very dull and it was difficult to make out what was going on in some of the more action packed less well lit scenes. I'm likely to be seeing it again and next time I'll certainly be going to 2D showing.

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Saw it today, was good fun though I thought the opening sequence was far too silly though it obviously set up various things for later on. My main problem was that it all felt very familiar and it wasn't hard to see what was coming next a lot of the time. Rehashing so much of Wrath of Khan - everything from themes, story elements, scenes (even if reversed) and even lines felt lazy and I kinda felt there should have been more originality and feel just a little short changed if I'm honest.

 

Maybe knowing how Khan came into the original series etc has affected my view. I'm guessing those new to it won't feel the same as it will all seem fresh.

 

Not at all sure about the Spock/Uhura relationship either.

 

Those criticisms aside I did enjoy it and will more than likely buy the blu-ray to go with the first film. I do like the fact you can see/hear elements of the old cast in the way they are portrayed and sound, just would have been better with a totally original story I think.

 

Oh, the KHAAAANNNN line by Spock was just cringeworthy. Far too cheesy and unnecessary.

 

And if it matters I saw it in 2D. I'll consider watching a film in 3D if it was filmed in 3D rather than post-converted as I consider that's the way the director wants it to be seen. But I think the novelty of that has worn off and it hardly ever adds anything to the experience.

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yeah i found the start ok, felt a bit like an ep of the series, though how did they get under water unseen& WHY did they go underwater? could the same mission not of happened with the enterprise in orbit? did I miss something? though i liked the look of those aliens and the fact that they now worship the enterprise lol. i liked how they were trying to save them and wrestling with the prime directive, i loved how that and other bits were hitting the kirk spock friendship and how spock got it at the end.

 

yep 3d makes the colours dimmer and rarely adds to a movie even if filmed in 3d.

 

i liked the first half as it was very much a whats going on, whos doing what and why, after khan is revealed it starts to become predictable as so much is ripped off from wrath and what isnt is spelled out for you, i mean really why is the line to bones about the tribble in there? why in the middle of that speech to kahn does kirk say, so bones what are you doing, one moment khan ill get back to you, and then bones tells him, and im sitting there thinking ok, thats gonna save someones life later on. why not just show him tinkering, nothing more is needed.

 

saying this i still loved it, i found myself accepting and rolling with the wrath ripp offs, i thought the reversed death scene was really well acted and written, and i loved how in speaking to spock prime spock did what kirk would have done and kirk ended up doing what spock would have done, loved spock saying about them being friends. but hated him shouting khan and then uhura saying go get him, lol.

 

enterprise falling looked great, but really wished it had put up a bit more of a fight.

 

really liked how marcus was written but im a big peter weller fan.

 

one thing though, in new trek, why are there so few other star ships about? why is there no earth defence grid as sorts, kronos also!

 

yep an original story next time would be nice, but needs a strong villain, more klingons would be nice also. i liked those mini birds of prey but i want to see the proper birds of prey next time, unchanged.

 

 

i really liked it overall,

 

 

the transporter rules are annoying me though, transporting from earth to kronos, from planets to moving ships, falling through the sky on an erupting planet but not through a bit of ash or on a moving earth transport. hummmm, actually why could they not beam khan and spock up but uhura down?

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Picky, picky, picky :) But hard to argue with you. Silly with it being underwater. Totally unnecessary and I didn't think a ship could go far into a planets atmosphere anyway. Wasn't Voyager the only one designed to land on the surface? That's why they have shuttles and transporters.

 

Oh well. Regarding defense grids and lack of ships, I got the impression Starfleet hadn't been militarised in this reality as much as we've been used to as they weren't actually at war with anyone. From things said it sounded like it was more geared to exploration still. Could be a reason.

 

Some of it was just too obvious but it was a good ride, decent effects etc. Not a classic tho by any means, the original WoK is far superior as it doesn't rely on all out action. It's more of a tactical cat and mouse game between the two which is much more intriguing and engauging. To me anyway.

Edited by Rockstar6662

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ive got no issue with the ships in the atmosphere. in the skies, didnt the enterprise do it in "tomorrow is yesterday" in the original series? i thought it was possible but only voyager could land? and in the new timeline they are built on earth so maybe they can land somehow in this timeline any ship? i dunno, not too bothered about that.

 

 

it felt like there was a lot cut from the opening, esp around the shuttle

 

 

the transporter "rules" really bug me though, forget about trek rules of the past, just within these 2 movies seems suspect, as i mentioned above.

 

yeah wrath of khan is better, though ive always wanted kirk to do more in it, so was happy he does in into darkness.

 

maybe why i like this is it feels like the characters i love from TOS, I wanna see them in their own series lol, next movie will be interesting and a few movies down the line there needs to be a ' khans vengeance' movie/s maybe a lead dies (not spock or bones, perhaps carol) and kirk finally kills khan by out smarting him tactically ;-)

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I enjoyed it. Loved some of the banter and dialogue between Kirk, McCoy and Spock. The fight on Kronos with Khan and the Klingons was pretty spectacular, and Peter Weller's Admiral Marcus was great. Story was quite nice, and Cumberbatch was a pretty awesome villain, managing to strike that balance between 'sinister' and 'badass.'

Infact, I would've given the whole film much higher praise, if it wasn't for the Wrath of Khan reactor scene shoehorned in at the end. It just didn't fit. I mean, it fit the film as a conclusion to the story, but it needed something different. Rather than just regurgitate the same dialogue and reverse the character roles, give us something we didn't expect. It was fine for those who havn't seen TWOK before, but it just felt lazy to me.

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I actually really liked the reactor switch scene, and i found Spocks emotional outburst to be powerful and showed how strong connection he has with Kirk.

 

Even though it might have been slightly over the top, i really loved the fight scene afterwards, Khan really brought out the full rage of Spock!

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Chalk me as another who didn't mind the 'Khan' line, quite the opposite in fact, I thought it was an incredible scene and was very well done, ending with him screaming it in an emotional outburst immediately followed by the ship nearly crashing into the enterprise.

 

I'd be curious to know how many people's opinion on the 'cheesyness' or 'cringe worthyness' of it would feel different if it wasn't a recreation of an old scene.

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Yep I think my disliking is cos its a tad too far on the ripping off scale, if it was fresh I may have been ok with it, te rest of the khan ripping off I was ok with (surprisingly, as the rumours of khan prior annoyed me, I didn't want it, but didn't think they would have the audacity to do it) but I found myself rolling with it during the reactor scenes ESP which you see coming, I actually liked it flipped as it really made sense to me within the story ESP with Spock is asking prime about khan whilst on the bridge when Kirk was in the thick of it, loved how they each said I did what you would have done, thought it was filmed and acted very well, interesting I thought Kirk was gonna say "oh my" lol (generations)

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Yeah the ship almost hitting enterprise straight after was good, do you think khan was trying to hot them or not?

and khan kicking spocks ass showing how powerfull he really was,

 

In the future a return of khan on a vengeance spree with Kirk outwitting and killing him would be cool

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Interesting I thought Kirk was gonna say "oh my" lol (generations)

 

I actually thought the exact same thing, that would have been a perfect touch really.

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I just thought the reactor scene was done much more modestly and emotionally back in 1982. People in my Into Darkness screening were laughing and groaning at Kirk's death scene, and there was a fairly mixed reaction at the 'KHAAAAAAN!' outburst.

 

I thought everything else they did with the film was fine. I just thought they tried way too hard to make that reactor scene 'as moving and emotional as the original,' and it feels severly out of place and forced in a film that had, up until that point, been almost entirely about action sequences and witty dialogue.

 

Take the Wrath of Khan for example - there are many subtle dialogue scenes between Kirk and Spock leading up to the conclusion of the film, illuminating Spock's lack of emotion yet thorough understanding of friendship and respect. We are emotionally invested in their friendship before anything really happens. Khan is a much more sustained threat throughout, and Spock's sacrifice feels ultimately more justified. When the reactor scene comes, it's almost as if no words are needed, and what is said is subtly presented. I've never felt that scene in TWOK was cheesy, overdramatic or laugh-worthy. I even showed it to my girlfriend the other evening after we watched Into Darkness, and she agreed that the scene was handled much more skillfully in '82. (She very rarely agrees with me btw, so I'm happy about that one)

 

As a sidenote, I think the problem a lot of people have (including myself) is that the classic Spock would never have an emotional outburst like that, no matter the circumstance. His restrained emotions were one of the unique aspects of his character. We would know he was in pain, but Spock would never show it. It somehow amplified the experience for me. The new Spock (presumably because the destruction of Vulcan left him damaged) claims to be emotionless, but is having an intimate relationship with Uhura and even cries at the end of the film. I can see what they're trying to do, but I dont buy it. Just imagine Nimoy screaming 'KHAAAAAN' after a teary episode, and you'll realise how wrong it all is.

 

Star Trek Into Darkness was good, and there was lots to like, but the final act let me down. I'll watch it again regardless, just to see if I can stomach the ending.

Edited by crazydan182

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I just thought the reactor scene was done much more modestly and emotionally back in 1982. People in my Into Darkness screening were laughing and groaning at Kirk's death scene, and there was a fairly mixed reaction at the 'KHAAAAAAN!' outburst.

 

Different viewpoints will differ obviously. I was in a cinema hall that was full, with people who laughed at the funny parts etc, and there was absolute silence during the emotional death scene(which there should be in cinemas) and there was no laughing at all during the 'Khan' scream. It was only afterwards I came on here and was surprised that people found it cheesy and cringeworthy. That's why I tend to judge things myself and not listen to what others think. I think that people tend to go with the majority sometimes and if a few people say it was horribly done and cringeworthy, others start to think the same thing (although i'm not saying that's what anyone here is doing)

 

For what it's worth, yeah I do agree with you that if we're comparing (and again, I shouldn't really, because they're very different films, and I wouldn't think they're meant to be compared) Into Darkness with The Wrath of Khan, I don't think anyone who had seen Wrath of Khan could say that Into Darkness is better. It's bigger, looks more impressive and has a lot more CG, but in terms of characters and simply 'the way it was done'. Wrath will always come out on top. In that we were seeing a character die that we'd known for 15 years, and it wasn't really in the days of 'well this is sci-fi, no one is really dead for good' so it was much more effective, especially he was still dead when the film ended.

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I think that people tend to go with the majority sometimes and if a few people say it was horribly done and cringeworthy, others start to think the same thing (although i'm not saying that's what anyone here is doing)

 

I definitely didn't mean to influence anyone's opinion of the film, although i appreciate I may have inadvertently done that. I sincerely wish I liked it as much as the majority of people seem to. Perhaps with repeat viewings, it will grow on me. First impressions are not always your only impressions of a film.

 

For what it's worth, yeah I do agree with you that if we're comparing (and again, I shouldn't really, because they're very different films, and I wouldn't think they're meant to be compared)

 

I think, considering the line for line duplication of the reactor scene from TWOK, it's inevitable that they will be compared, and the writers/director must have known this. By putting this reactor scene in at all, they are trying to enhance the appeal to Trek fans who are familiar with the TWOK, and thereby offering themselves up for comparison. Like many critics have mentioned, why redo a classic trek idea rather than take the series in a bold new direction, especially if you want to avoid being compared?

 

It must sound like I'm trying to be overwhelmingly negative. Into Darkness was a good Trek film - not as good as TWOK, but then none of the original series of movies managed to rise to that high benchmark either. TWOK was the peak of the series (First Contact follows closely behind for me), and Abrams and co. were brave for taking on the challenge of trying to best it.

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Not at all do you sound negative, it's a very fair assessment. You're right in that it's only natural to compare them with parts that are so similar. I had a thought while watching the movie that it seems right in a way that the stories are mirroring the original films, as we're basically seeing the timeline from the start again. If the stuff with Khan happened in the last timeline, it's likely it'd happen again, but at least these movies go a good way to actually incorporating the old timeline, like the section with Leonard in this movie, and the fact that young Spock actually know's how it all originally went down now. I think that's interesting, and definitely is a good thing as it feels like the original timeline is being remembered and celebrated instead of completely erased.

 

I came away from the film thoroughly enjoying it but feeling a little torn. I don't want to compare to the old films, because the old film would win, and I don't want to be like a new viewer and say that Into Darkness was the best film ever. But the fact is I DID enjoy it a lot. It's just a different kind of good

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I think with STID, they basically tried to incorporate lots of elements together. Space Seed (Khan being discovered, in the brig, taking over a starship etc), TWOK (carol marcus, reactor scene, federation starship vs. enterprise) and Star Trek 3 (Kirk being brought back this time, not Spock), while injecting some modern relevance such as terrorism, WMDs etc.

 

It's also fair to remember this is a mirror timeline, but we're also years before the Star Trek: The Motion Picture timeframe. This was Khan's first encounter with Kirk in this timeline, being this timeline's equivalent of Space Seed. It's therefore plausible that this timeline could still feature a Khan revenge story, though I think that's already been mentioned in this thread.

 

I appreciate they're referencing the old films a lot, probably to stop a riot from happening. Trek fans can be a rowdy lot. But all in all, I hope the next Trek movie is 100% original. They deserve to do something different with this new cast. So far everything they've done has been overshadowed by the old Trek. I just want an awesome standalone Star Trek film, so I can wholeheartedly say the new Trek is just as good as the old one.

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No offence against anyone on here but why can't you watch a film and just appreciate it rather than look in to every little detail that was right or wrong.

 

 

I still thought it was a fantastic film and judging by the applause in the cinema so did everyone else.

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No offence against anyone on here but why can't you watch a film and just appreciate it rather than look in to every little detail that was right or wrong.

 

 

No.

 

I'm all for sitting back and enjoying a popcorn flick, but perhaps my expectation of Star Trek over the years has grown to become more than that.

 

And as for myself, I enjoy the critical post-dissection of a film almost as much as the experience of seeing it itself. If you think this is bad, you should have heard me after Prometheus...

Edited by crazydan182
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No offence against anyone on here but why can't you watch a film and just appreciate it rather than look in to every little detail that was right or wrong.

 

 

I think your in totally the wrong place, this IS a movie discussion thread. What would be the point if there was never anything to discuss.

 

Sorry but you'll always find a large number of people passionate about the things they love on these kinds of forums, and personally that's the main reason i go on here.

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I find it strange though now all the fans are complaining that Into Darkness was a Khan movie when that's what everyone wanted the next Trek to be. Never happy Eh! :P

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