chrismk Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Is it me, or is this event working out incredibly expensive, especially when compared to a Massive Events convention? Standard tickets for an ME convention start at around £80. For that, you get 2-3 nights of parties, around 6 hours of talks, opening closing ceremony and an autograph with 4-6 guests. With the amounts being charged at this event for parties and talks, a similar experience would cost several hundred. You could argue that it shows what good value ME conventions are, but it also suggests that the pricing policy for this event is somewhat steep (and I'm putting it gently!) 2 Nights parties - £50 6 of the cheapest talks - £60 6 of the cheapest autographs - £60 Total £170 - and this is for one less party, no ceremony and no talks/autographs from any of the 'headline' guests. In a time of recession, your average punter is looking for better value for money, not worse! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted May 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2012 Hello, it's me! Firstly, it's a signing event, not a convention .. so surely on a very basic level it's not even comparable? Secondly, we have no idea of the details of the finances covering the venues, the guests going to the parties, doing talks etc. Surely the contracts must be worked differently for an event such as this compared to a weekend convention no? The budget for an event like this is hugely different too, for example: 1) No entry being charged. 2) WAY more guests than a weekend convention - appearance fees, travel etc. Yes, if you want to compare it at the absolute most basic level, then you're completely right. But you also want to avoid absolutely every other thing that has to be taken into account too as an organiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Pants Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) It's no pricier than any other sigining event. You don't have to go to a party or a talk or have numerous variations of photoshoots. There just happen to be an awful lot of amazing guests and different things to do. Of course in an ideal world we'd all have enough money to get everyone and everything we want but sadly I have to budget at every event and miss out on some guests and activities, that doesn't mean that SM's shouldn't give other people the opportunity to get them now does it? Edited May 17, 2012 by Big_Pants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted May 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) It's as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. If you want to turn up, buy one autograph, then leave .. it could cost you a tenner total! You don't get that option at a con.. Edited May 17, 2012 by DavidB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismk Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Hello, it's me! Firstly, it's a signing event, not a convention .. so surely on a very basic level it's not even comparable? Secondly, we have no idea of the details of the finances covering the venues, the guests going to the parties, doing talks etc. Surely the contracts must be worked differently for an event such as this compared to a weekend convention no? The budget for an event like this is hugely different too, for example: 1) No entry being charged. 2) WAY more guests than a weekend convention - appearance fees, travel etc. Yes, if you want to compare it at the absolute most basic level, then you're completely right. But you also want to avoid absolutely every other thing that has to be taken into account too as an organiser. Well colour me surprised... From a value for money point of view, most things can be compared. Whilst there are differences between a signing and a full themed convention, there are also a LOT of similarities (especially when the signing event adds talks and parties.) The contracts are irrelevant, Collectormania previously has NEVER charged for entry and has managed to get some of the best guests to an event. The only additional hire are the rooms at the Double Tree and frankly, for the amount of custom that Collectormania is bringing in (off season), the room hire costs should be tiny! Additionally, many of the talks at LFCC are free, which again means that this does not compare favourably (even taking into account the entry fee for LFCC). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismk Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 It's no pricier than any other sigining event. You don't have to go to a party or a talk or have numerous variations of photoshoots. There just happen to be an awful lot of amazing guests and different things to do. Of course in an ideal world we'd all have enough money to get everyone and everything we want but sadly I have to budget at every event and miss out on some guests and activities, that doesn't mean that SM's shouldn't give other people the opportunity to get them now does it? Thats simply not true. LFCC has a limited number of paid talks, the vast majority are free, therefore this event is SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than LFCC. £25 for a part is very expensive, significantly more so than the parties that they used to run at the Hockey Stadium (which WOULD have to be rented seperately). I realise that was a few years ago, but even UK inflation isn't 100%! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismk Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 It's as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. If you want to turn up, buy one autograph, then leave .. it could cost you a tenner total! You don't get that option at a con.. That statement is utterly pointless. I am comparing two things to demonstrate a difference in value for money. If you just wanted one autograph, then it would cost you £80 at a convention, £10 at Collectormania, but if you only wanted that, then you'd have to be stupid to get it at the convention. That's why I am comparing as near to like for like as possible (and frankly, my comparison is generous). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriangill Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 the room hire costs should be tiny!Assuming it does not make it so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRichard76 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 At the start I was only thinking of coming because it would be nice to meet Richard Briers and have him on the same DVD cover as John Hurt (Watership Down). Then when Jeff Rawle (obviously most famous for playing George in the hysterical 90's topical sitcom Drop The Dead Donkey) was announced I thought, yes, got to go. But when Sean Astin was announced? I love Goonies so want to meet Mikey. Zach Galligan I was like "OH MY GOD!" he is a definite priority :) With Lena Headey *Wolf whistles* just a nice bonus. As luck would have it my Carbon Freezing Chamber (my Fridge Freezers) knackered and so I need to buy (when it gets repaired) some emergency supplies. On the same day as Collector I've got a concert I'm going to and cannot wait for that (and atthe very least IF I had to only go to Collector just for Zach I will) It would be nice to meet everyone on my list, but now its kind of limited to those who are priority. And its not like any of us can breathe a sigh of relief after Collector is it, seeing we've got LFCC coming up. I already need to start saving up to get my limit of Gillian Andersons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsanddaffodils Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 just goes to show how good the guest list is for this show But it is like any large collectors event, it is as expensive as you choose to make it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsanddaffodils Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 which means, I should say, it is just as well I am crewing lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismk Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 just goes to show how good the guest list is for this show But it is like any large collectors event, it is as expensive as you choose to make it As I tried to explain to David, I'm comparing two similar things, to demonstrate that this event seems incredibly expensive. More so than an ME event, or LFCC. At a time when people have less money and there are a huge number of events to chose from, giving poor value for money does not seem like a great option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted May 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 17, 2012 Things are hard all round though - not just for attendees, but for businesses too. Yes, it'd be nice if organisers were in a position to drop prices etc, but surely they're being hit by exactly the same financial issues as everyone else no? That's just me trying to think logically. I can't imagine being in this situation and able to give things away free here there and everywhere. You'd have to win the lottery and not care about expenditure or profits for that. If it's a case to have paid talks or no talks, then why not give people the option? Same with the parties. They're organising things that people have requested in the past, and letting attendees choose whether to go for them or not. I won't be going for anything other than autos/photos, but that's my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsanddaffodils Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 To be honest though, I do not feel it is poor value for money. There is an incredible amount to do at this show, and yes you would need a huge budget to do it all, but a show like collectormania, well, quite frankly, I do not expect people to do everything. The shows are designed to offer a large variety to a large number of fanbases. Most fans choose the guests they like. I like a lot of different genres personally and would find it hard to choose which guests to see/get autos/photos/see talks, but an ME show has been designed usually for one/two fanbases. The budgets/venues etc must be completely different but only Showmasters or Massive Events themselves would know the answer to that, and to be honest, I don't feel they should need to justify anyway. Each Collectormania show will be different for each attendee that attends, as it is you that chooses what your experience will be by the tickets/guests you choose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsanddaffodils Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 oops sorry for the double moderator post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismk Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Things are hard all round though - not just for attendees, but for businesses too. Yes, it'd be nice if organisers were in a position to drop prices etc, but surely they're being hit by exactly the same financial issues as everyone else no? That's just me trying to think logically. I can't imagine being in this situation and able to give things away free here there and everywhere. You'd have to win the lottery and not care about expenditure or profits for that. If it's a case to have paid talks or no talks, then why not give people the option? Same with the parties. They're organising things that people have requested in the past, and letting attendees choose whether to go for them or not. I won't be going for anything other than autos/photos, but that's my choice. I'm guessing you're not actually running a business yourself? (For the record, I used to run my own stall at these events, so I have some idea what I'm talking about.) If the times get tough, you do NOT increase your prices by 100+%. If your costs go up that much, then its time to stop doing it. They DO give these things away free at LFCC, where less than 1/4 of the talks are paid talks. When the times are hard, people have less money to spend. They are therefore more choosy and demanding as to where they spend it and what they spend it on. They are more likely to look at the best value for money (or, given as events would come under the heading of 'luxuries' they're likely to stop going all together.) SM suffer in this time, because their revenues drop as people spend less. HOWEVER, some of their costs will go down as well as venues become more competitive to attract events and guests become cheaper as they find work harder to come by (have you seen how much budgets are being cut at places like the BBC?) You have elected not to go to any talks or parties, but would you still make that choice if they were cheaper? Basic economics says that the price to charge is where supply and demand meet. This is where you will maximise your revenue. If you set the price too high, then demand will be low and you will not maximise your revenue. Given the costs are fixed, you run a risk of making a loss. £25 for a party is a lot. Say 100 people decide to buy tickets, then you get a revenue of £2500. If you charged £15 for a ticket, more people are likely to come and you'd need to sell an additional 67 tickets to get the same income. Obviously it's very difficult to judge the demand for tickets, but then it makes sense to start lower and increase the prices at later events. For a start, it means you are more likely to sell out, which builds demand and exclusivity. Then, you can increase the price, until the revenue peaks. If you start high, it puts people off and if the party is too quiet, it's going to be a harder sell at future events. Similarly, if the talks are over priced, you run the risk of losing money, if the guest would bring it more revenue NOT doing the talk. This is also the first time doing talks at this venue, which means a reputational risk if there are any logistical problems (with sound, or seating, or ticket confusion, or timing problems, or people feeling the talks are too short). A suggestion would be to hold some free talks first, because at least then people don't feel like they've wasted money whilst any teething issues are resolved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismk Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 To be honest though, I do not feel it is poor value for money. There is an incredible amount to do at this show, and yes you would need a huge budget to do it all, but a show like collectormania, well, quite frankly, I do not expect people to do everything. The shows are designed to offer a large variety to a large number of fanbases. Most fans choose the guests they like. I like a lot of different genres personally and would find it hard to choose which guests to see/get autos/photos/see talks, but an ME show has been designed usually for one/two fanbases. The budgets/venues etc must be completely different but only Showmasters or Massive Events themselves would know the answer to that, and to be honest, I don't feel they should need to justify anyway. Each Collectormania show will be different for each attendee that attends, as it is you that chooses what your experience will be by the tickets/guests you choose There is less to do at this show, than there is at LFCC. Yes, I accept that there is a charge to get in to LFCC, but that's only the cost of one of the cheapest talks. I do understand the difference between a signing event and a themed convention, although this one is blurring the lines more with the nightly parties. Lets put it another way then. John Barrowman did at least 1 Hub event. A ticket for the Hub event was around £80, which got you 3 parties, an autograph from John and at least one talk by him (plus a whole bunch of other stuff). At Collectormania, it will cost you £90 and that doesn't factor in the additional party or additional guests at the Hub. Can you not see how this is worse value for money? This is irrelevant of fanbases or genres, it is an actual example. Maybe this highlights what good value for money the ME events are, but I think it also highlights an issue with the pricing policy of the new things at this event. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriangill Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Again you are assuming - i.e. that the prices are not already at the lowest feasible prices. You are not aware of the exact the costs to SM. Your points are based on the fact that for you the prices are too expensive (which is fair enough). It does not mean that they are expensive in relation to the costs involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsanddaffodils Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 ME Events are incredibly good value, I have always considered that to be the case, yet you still get people complaining that they can't have a day ticket to them etc etc ME and SM events are completely different, I don't think they are comparable for pricing reasons, but again, only SM and ME themselves know the ins and outs of the finances. The parties have been requested time and time again since I started using the forum, and now SM are doing as people have asked and running the parties. The numbers able to attend the parties are limited by the space there, and presumably hall hire etc etc has to come in to that. SM and ME are not money hungry people, they are fans running shows for fans, you only have to see them at the shows to know that. You also only have to think of the smaller ME shows that other companies wouldn't have run if they decided that the returns weren't enough, yet ME do (yes there are cancellations, but there has to be a limit) Jason has already posted in General Chat about his pricing etc, (just in case you haven't seen that) I think it explains their way of thinking quite well. This could go round and round in circles, but at the end of the day, it is our choice to go to a show, buy autos, talk tickets etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismk Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 Again you are assuming - i.e. that the prices are not already at the lowest feasible prices. You are not aware of the exact the costs to SM. Your points are based on the fact that for you the prices are too expensive (which is fair enough). It does not mean that they are expensive in relation to the costs involved. I feel that £25 per night for a party is too expensive. I suspect I will not be alone in that feeling. I may not be aware of the EXACT costs to Showmasters, but I have enough experience to be able to estimate them (having a party at your own wedding will give you a vague ballpark figure!!). If the costs are that high (which I don't think they are), then they should look at alternatives. Don't get me wrong... I've done EVERY MK Showmasters event in the past (back to when they were held at Woughton and Stantonbury campuses) and I want the events to do well and grow. But I feel strongly that the pricing is wrong and will not help achieve this growth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsanddaffodils Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 there is another thing to consider though, the guests don't attend out of the goodness of their hearts, and attendees want guests at the parties............ as I said, we have no idea of the costs, and SM/ME have already said they try to price things as low as they can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismk Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 ME Events are incredibly good value, I have always considered that to be the case, yet you still get people complaining that they can't have a day ticket to them etc etc ME and SM events are completely different, I don't think they are comparable for pricing reasons, but again, only SM and ME themselves know the ins and outs of the finances. The parties have been requested time and time again since I started using the forum, and now SM are doing as people have asked and running the parties. The numbers able to attend the parties are limited by the space there, and presumably hall hire etc etc has to come in to that. SM and ME are not money hungry people, they are fans running shows for fans, you only have to see them at the shows to know that. You also only have to think of the smaller ME shows that other companies wouldn't have run if they decided that the returns weren't enough, yet ME do (yes there are cancellations, but there has to be a limit) Jason has already posted in General Chat about his pricing etc, (just in case you haven't seen that) I think it explains their way of thinking quite well. This could go round and round in circles, but at the end of the day, it is our choice to go to a show, buy autos, talk tickets etc People want day tickets, because they can't afford a full weekend one (or perhaps can't afford it along with the additional hotel costs). To be honest, I think it's a reasonable idea to charge people at a convention a small amount, just for being able to attend talks/parties. I do not agree that the events are 'completely different. They both have guests, signing sessions, photo sessions and now they both have parties and talks. The biggest difference is that signings have a bigger variety of guests and a low entrance cost, meaning a LOT more people can/do attend them. Yes, the costs are different, but the biggest costs (guest fees, guest transport/accomodation, venue hire) are similar and scalable to the number of attendees. I know that Showmasters are fans, I've known Jason and Mark for years (as I say, going back to Stantonbury/Woughton campuses) and I have respect for them, which is why I'm highlighting something that I see as an issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismk Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 there is another thing to consider though, the guests don't attend out of the goodness of their hearts, and attendees want guests at the parties............ as I said, we have no idea of the costs, and SM/ME have already said they try to price things as low as they can Ummm... from what's happened at many events, guests HAVE attended 'out of the goodness of their hearts'... or, more likely, to have a fun night out! Its rarely contractual, which is why there is a disclaimer posted, because attendance cannot be guaranteed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsanddaffodils Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 and they do take on board what is written on the forum, you see them around, so you know they do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonsanddaffodils Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 but being self employed, I now have to go back to work (probably working all night tonight) so I will leave you to your deliberations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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