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Carl Froch

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Davidbrookes

 

Your comment is a little bizarre why would I want to run the whole show? A bit of a silly comment considering I've posted around 5 comments explaining my grievances.

 

If I'm not mistaken yesterday you were scrutinising other photos of guests and their children and their motives so I won't take your comment too seriously ok :)

 

Yesterday I told you not to worry about the pics and be happy! Today just don't worry

 

1of2

 

Thank you for understanding, didn't mean to be rude.

 

I was upset because I really don't think that Ever happens.

 

For instance I don't think anything like that would have happened with the 66 guests etc

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Davidbrookes

 

Your comment is a little bizarre why would I want to run the whole show? A bit of a silly comment considering I've posted around 5 comments explaining my grievances.

 

If I'm not mistaken yesterday you were scrutinising other photos of guests and their children and their motives so I won't take your comment too seriously ok :)

 

Yesterday I told you not to worry about the pics and be happy! Today just don't worry

I don't know why I cut off that end bit so abruptly, it should have been in reference to running an event with not a single instance like this occurring so I apologise for saying the wrong thing. Yes it needs to be noted that attendees are upset about what had happened, I just don't feel that directing it at the assistant is the correct approach because at times there can be 101 things going through your head and they are a human being like the rest of us.

 

I didn't scrutinise someone's photo yesterday, I explained how the photo could have had good intentions to which the person that had uploaded the picture thanked me for because I was correct so I think you may have misunderstood that part.

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Anyway thanks for replying / understanding. Please ensure to pass on my advice regarding briefing of staff on strict rules that everyone should have to adhere to.

 

Thanks again.

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I posted the comment to try to add some levity to the thread.

 

Yes I did tell Carl that he should not sign the extra item. I also pointed this out to the attendee that it was wrong. Security also stepped forward to stop the extra item being signed. However.. and it's a big however, Carl said that he would like to sign it. It is his signature, he owns it, the item being signed was not a Showmasters 10x8, so effectively I had no right to argue with the guest.

 

Before you all do this, we all do remember people who do this, and habitual offenders, soon find that we get nasty and really do enforce the rules. With these guys, we can tell the guest in all honesty that these guys always try it on and aren't their biggest fan, just want freebies.

 

We are there to assist the guest and try to enforce the rules but I will not offend my guest by over ruling them and perhaps making their day any less enjoyable.

 

Sometimes we just have to go with the guests requests, a stand up war of words is not professional: a quiet word with the guest once the first one to blag a free autograph has left the area is. Carl didn't sign any others free after, because I explained the situation after and YES I paid for my autograph too.

 

And as for making a comment that I'm weak because I was crying the next day....I'd had the day from hell.

 

I've said before I don't want to go into it, but not everyone understood that Gazza is Gazza. Again, perhaps Showmasters should have gone in there and read him the riot act. After all, Vinnie Jones took him to task and got away with it ..Note tongue in cheek whilst typing that!... But we don't, again we respect the wishes of the guest first and foremost. Alll we can do is try and persuade them. But when you've had a day of sheer and absolute stress, coming on the back of a hard LFCC, some of the unkind comments levelled at me got to me at the end of the day. You see I'm not a female dog, my parents were married when I was born and I'm happily married and straight!!! (get the picture of my kind of day). So yes forgive me for being human and having a heart.

 

I took most of that all day without comment and tried to keep smiling, but what really made me upset was an attendee who'd flown from Australia to get his shirt signed and I couldn't help him. Watching his utter devastation was too much.

 

But back to Carl, who was a joy to work with and really enjoyed meeting everyone....

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Madmonster - You see I'm not a female dog, my parents were married when I was born and I'm happily married and straight!!! (get the picture of my kind of day). So yes forgive me for being human and having a heart.

 

Wow was it that bad whoever called you names etc should have been thrown out.

 

 

 

Madonster i think we may have spoke, my girlfriend asked why gazza wasnt signing shirts and you gave very clear answer, I think I even mentioned to you that SM couldn't have known he wouldnt sign shirts otherwise they would have had that info on the forum!

 

anyway thanks for clearing it up. hopefully someone else gets Gazza next time and you have it a bit easier! :)

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But when you've had a day of sheer and absolute stress, coming on the back of a hard LFCC

 

This does sound quite a comical event. You'd think because it was so smaller, it would run smoothly. What would have happened if a 'big' guest was there!.

 

Free autographs, the row about the guy having an innocent picture taken with his son, people leaving early, and the no shirts fiasco.

 

If there is a second one, I hope we start getting a little more professional - and stop using the excuse that its because you're all drained from events the week before.

Edited by Donkey

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If there is a second one, I hope we start getting a little more professional - and stop using the excuse that its because you're all drained from events the week before.

 

I am confident in making an assumption here that you have never crewed an event. But to help you understand I know that the crew member in this post had travelled over 200miles to crew LFCC, before amounting 34crewing hours, 5 hours travelling between the venue and the crew hotel before a 7hour journey home. This was then followed by a full working week, before making a 250mile journey from work to Milton Keynes for this event. So being drained is perfectly reasonable, after all if you had worked 3 full time working weeks in the space of two weeks I'm sure you too would feel drained.

 

Please remember that the crew are all volunteers and we do it because we enjoy the interaction with the attendees, we want everyone to have a good time. I appreciate that something's can cause frustration and make you feel upset. I am sure however that someone that has been doing this for 8 or 9 years knows what they are doing. If they didn't know what to do they wouldn't be asked back.

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I am confident in making an assumption here that you have never crewed an event. But to help you understand I know that the crew member in this post had travelled over 200miles to crew LFCC, before amounting 34crewing hours, 5 hours travelling between the venue and the crew hotel before a 7hour journey home. This was then followed by a full working week, before making a 250mile journey from work to Milton Keynes for this event. So being drained is perfectly reasonable, after all if you had worked 3 full time working weeks in the space of two weeks I'm sure you too would feel drained.

 

With respect, maybe if your personal life and travelling demands are that complicated, maybe they should slow down the number of events that they crew. Remember this is an event with paying customers, whilst we all recognise the fact they are volunteers the is still a level of professionalism that should be met, and in my opinion the excuses rasied are a little weak.

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I am confident in making an assumption here that you have never crewed an event. But to help you understand I know that the crew member in this post had travelled over 200miles to crew LFCC, before amounting 34crewing hours, 5 hours travelling between the venue and the crew hotel before a 7hour journey home. This was then followed by a full working week, before making a 250mile journey from work to Milton Keynes for this event. So being drained is perfectly reasonable, after all if you had worked 3 full time working weeks in the space of two weeks I'm sure you too would feel drained.

 

With respect, maybe if your personal life and travelling demands are that complicated, maybe they should slow down the number of events that they crew. Remember this is an event with paying customers, whilst we all recognise the fact they are volunteers the is still a level of professionalism that should be met, and in my opinion the excuses rasied are a little weak.

Having a full working week is not personal life related, it's something most of us do, unless you want someone that's unemployed and possibly sits at home all day so has no experience in dealing with both customers and the public? It sounds to me as though this person is very experienced which is why they were put with the high profile guests. When they applied they weren't to know what job they would be given so it's not something you pass on the opportunity to crew and if anything I think it shows determination and commitment to Showmasters that they want to do a good job.

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Having a full working week is not personal life related, it's something most of us do, unless you want someone that's unemployed and possibly sits at home all day so has no experience in dealing with both customers and the public?

 

I disagree, its your personal responsibility if you are too tired to do your job effectively. One example being, I wouldn't expect a doctor who was working on a nightshift all week to put his name forward to travel, or crew either.

 

I also find it fairly insulting to accuse all unemployed people, as work shy, lacking in personalable skills.

 

Determination, and commitment, are worthy attributes, but worthless to Showmasters if not combined with professionalism.

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From the examples you've given, it appears that your definition of unprofessional in this case is mainly not being able to change the guest's mind about something they have decided to either do or not do. If a guest decides they do/don't want to sign something, or that they want to leave, it's not like we can actually FORCE them otherwise.

 

(And if every crew member who was shattered from LFCC had decided not to volunteer for Sportsmania because of this, there wouldn't have been an event, as that just doesn't leave enough crew to do anything!)

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(And if every crew member who was shattered from LFCC had decided not to volunteer for Sportsmania because of this, there wouldn't have been an event, as that just doesn't leave enough crew to do anything!)

 

I have no knowledge of staffing levels at this event, and how close the event was from being cancelled, if a handful (or maybe even one person!) decided not to put thier name forwad due to tiredness.

 

Not all of those at LFCC I'm sure were effected in the same way, and were more than capable of working the following weekend.

Edited by Donkey

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I disagree, its your personal responsibility if you are too tired to do your job effectively. One example being, I wouldn't expect a doctor who was working on a nightshift all week to put his name forward to travel, or crew either.

The long days crewing can make you tired from just the crewing and the hard work that has to be put in. Without knowing what the persons job is outside of Showmasters, I wouldn't want to speculate on the tiredness of them due to that.

 

I also find it fairly insulting to accuse all unemployed people, as work shy, lacking in personalable skills.

I never said all, just possibly. I have family at home that have recently become unemployed so that would suggest I'm insulting my own family.

 

Determination, and commitment, are worthy attributes, but worthless to Showmasters if not combined with professionalism.

I just don't see how there wasn't professionalism, the guest made their point that it's up to them, the assistant respected that and they made sure they had a chat about it while there weren't any attendees around, how is that not professionalism?

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Difficulty here is you are working from assumptions and not from a position of knowledge. As far as I can tell you didn't attend the event and presumably had no involvement in the promoting or organising of the show or any of the staff so perhaps it's time to move on from this.

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Difficulty here is you are working from assumptions and not from a position of knowledge. As far as I can tell you didn't attend the event and presumably had no involvement in the promoting or organising of the show or any of the staff so perhaps it's time to move on from this.

 

I do love this argument on the internet, and would expect more from you Mr Count.

 

99.9% of all discussion on internet forums are based on opinions, known facts, and assumptions. If we all had to have some involvement in the promotion or organising of the thing that we were discussing there would simply be no discussion.

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I never ever said I was tired! You are all reading what you want in my post. The words I used was "coming on the back of a hard LFCC" ... NOT I was tired. In actual fact I wasn't tired.

 

I was, however, more suspectible to the unkind comments being levelled for things that were out of my control. I'm a human being and I have feelings. Two weeks on the trot of being moaned at do tend to get to you, when you do the job because you like helping people.

 

I do not need to justify my inclusion on the SM Crew roster. I have been doing these events for about 8 years and am one of the more experienced crew, not a young girl with a few shows under her belt. I am always professional, I never at any point took the the bait and was rude to an attendee or a guest. I sat there and took it. From attendees, dealers and agents, I sat there and took the crap that was thrown at me, now it seems that I am supposed to sit here and take it from people who weren't even there, who are judging my ability to do my job on things they do not understand or even saw.

 

My guest on Saturday went away happy, he had arrived, nervous and unsure of what he'd let himself in for. He left telllng me he'd be back after his October fight if he could, because he'd had such a good time. Something as simple as refusing to allow him to sign that extra autograph, when he had clearly over ruled me and therefore making him look bad in front of an attendee may have meant that he went away miserable, vowing never to return and been in a bad mood for the rest of the day and not as friendly to everyone else who met him. So shoot me for keeping my guest happy. (oh hang on, you are!)

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Difficulty here is you are working from assumptions and not from a position of knowledge. As far as I can tell you didn't attend the event and presumably had no involvement in the promoting or organising of the show or any of the staff so perhaps it's time to move on from this.

 

I do love this argument on the internet, and would expect more from you Mr Count.

 

99.9% of all discussion on internet forums are based on opinions, known facts, and assumptions. If we all had to have some involvement in the promotion or organising of the thing that we were discussing there would simply be no discussion.

 

My title is not Mr Count, I hold a hereditary, albeit honorific, title from a region in Bavaria. As with the British royal family, the correct form of address is Count in the first instance then sir afterwards.

 

I agree that opinions back up by facts are no bad thing, but too many of your contentions are based on assumptions that you have made with little knowledge of the facts or circumstances. From reading one of your earlier posts you paint an image of an event that was little more than a riot, when in fact it was anything but. It was a well controlled event where the majority of people I saw and spoke to very much enjoyed it.

 

My concern with debates of this sort are that unlike shows like CM and LFACC, which we can be pretty certain will continue even afetr a tough show, Sportsmania is a fledgling eventthat may or may not have made a significant sum of money for the organisers. If the event is seen to be not profitable and is perceived to cause the promoters and crew a disproportionate number of issues, Showmasters/Massive Events may simply decide it is not worth the hassle and stop holding the events. The only losers there will be those of us who feel strongly about this event and would like to see it continue.

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I didn't mean for my post to spark such controversy. It was my first time at one of these events and I only went to meet Carl Froch as I am a massive fan of his. I didn't intend to upset anyone by stating I got two items signed. I was unaware it was almost an unwritten rule at these events not to ask for this and wouldn’t have done so if I knew. I think the fact that it was a Nottingham Forest shirt made Carl want to sign it as he is a big Forest fan. As I previously mentioned the lady with Carl said this wasn’t allowed but Carl did make it clear he was happy to sign the item.

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I’m the head of crew for Showmasters and would like to add my comments here. I don’t believe anyone is trying to make excuses, they are purely explaining the situation as a whole, I personally don’t think there is anything to excuse.

 

Let me start by saying that the crew member in question is very professional and very experienced.

 

There are two completely different situations here. They should be treated as such.

 

1: The extra Carl autograph:

 

Should it have happened? No and I understand why you are upset it did and it wasn’t fair to those the paid for each one. But I believe the blame is with tuck60 (who has now apologised and obviously missed you pay PER autograph) for asking and Carl for doing it. I don’t believe any crew member could have done any more to have stopped it without being VERY unprofessional. Please let me explain my thoughts....

 

The crew know full well to stop people getting extra autographs for free and do a dam good job of stopping it. At the show like Sportsmania you will have 20+ people trying it on.

 

Now in this specific case the guest has chosen to do it. Now if tuch60 had said “The crew member did nothing to stop itâ€, then I’d be looking to talk to that crew member to find out why. But in their own words “the crew member tried to stop it.â€. As MM has said, even the security guard stepped forward to stop it and the guest said no I want to do it.

 

Now at this point what would have been more “unprofessionalâ€......

 

A: Allow the guests to do it this once, when the attendee leaves, explain to the guest that they shouldn’t do it and why, and have it not happen again.

 

B: Basically make a big scene, and in the process upsetting the guest.

 

How annoyed would you have been if you got to the show to find out Carl was upset and being grumpy with the attendees because he felt a crew member had been rude to him! And it could have even been enough to make him leave! How seriously annoyed would you have been if you got to the show to find out Carl had left!

 

Now to me the "unprofessional" thing would have been for the crew member to upset the guest. Carl clearly wanted to do it, and without making a scene no one could have stopped it. MM read the situation and understood that with Carl being nervous he may take being over ruled badly. Now I know her well and am 100% behind her that she made the right decision.

 

2: Gazza stress:

 

As I said the crew member in question is very experienced and has done cash for queues of 1000+ autographs with no mistakes. When it comes to heavy queues she is one of my go to people.

 

On this occasion through no fault of her own she had to be the bearer of the bad news that people were not allowed to get shirts signed and then that he left early. After an emotional roller coaster of people being unbelievably rude to her, it got too much and she cried. She cares about the attendees, it’s what makes someone a good crew member, because they do their very best to look after the attendees.

 

Now if she’d started shouting at the attendees, I could see peoples point, but she didn’t. We all have a breaking point, it happened, she dealt with it and she got on with her job, it was 2 minutes max. It never interfered with her doing an amazing job, and that to me is professionalism.

 

Regards,

Stuart.

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I never ever said I was tired! You are all reading what you want in my post.

Actually I think what is also getting conflated here is what you said and what other people have said in an attempt to defend you or the situation. I think it was quite clear from the explanations yesterday that you behaved admirably with regard to the "Froch incident", and as so splendidly further explained today by Too Tall in this thread. And no, you didn't say you were tired. However, I believe the following post didn't help the matter (however well-intentioned it may have been):

 

I know that the crew member in this post had travelled over 200miles to crew LFCC, before amounting 34crewing hours, 5 hours travelling between the venue and the crew hotel before a 7hour journey home. This was then followed by a full working week, before making a 250mile journey from work to Milton Keynes for this event. So being drained is perfectly reasonable

It's a bit of a weak excuse, to my mind. Given the explanation, being drained is perfectly understandable. That doesn't make it perfectly reasonable, though, in my book. But then that explanation wasn't about you anyway, even though it started with "the crew member in this post" - it rather came across as a "look, we're all tired" defence and I think the subsequent exchange of opinions wasn't about you (who had never claimed to be tired), but about somebody else's suggestion that being tired was reasonable (which some perhaps interpreted as being tired was "acceptable"). So I'd suggest that criticism wasn't really aimed at you, but at somebody else's post.

 

I also didn't think this helped:

unless you want someone that's unemployed and possibly sits at home all day so has no experience in dealing with both customers and the public?

I have known several people who have been unemployed and sat at home all day, but had plenty of experience of dealing with customers and the public. They were sat at home writing application letters and forms, researching job opportunities, learning new skills or revising old ones. The problem was the post equated everybody who sat at home with inexperience with dealing with the public - the positioning of the word "possibly" was about "possibly" sitting at home, but the words then read that if you sat at home you had "no experience in dealing with both customers and the public". I accept that's not what the original poster meant, but that's the way it read, so that hardly lowered the temperature.

 

I hope you're not too upset, and it's very unpleasant that so many people chose to vent at you over Gazza - I mean, good lord, it's not like he doesn't have a reputation for being remarkably flaky. Sure, I can understand their disappointment, but you would have thought that anybody who was interested enough in the man to want his autograph would also appreciate that he's hugely unreliable, and that you have no more control over him than you have over the weather. I'm sorry so many people wanted to shoot the messenger.

 

Maybe if I ramble on for another few paragraphs everybody will get bored, the tread will die and we can all move on to happier things :D

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I also didn't think this helped:

unless you want someone that's unemployed and possibly sits at home all day so has no experience in dealing with both customers and the public?

I have known several people who have been unemployed and sat at home all day, but had plenty of experience of dealing with customers and the public. They were sat at home writing application letters and forms, researching job opportunities, learning new skills or revising old ones. The problem was the post equated everybody who sat at home with inexperience with dealing with the public - the positioning of the word "possibly" was about "possibly" sitting at home, but the words then read that if you sat at home you had "no experience in dealing with both customers and the public". I accept that's not what the original poster meant, but that's the way it read, so that hardly lowered the temperature.

I apologise, it was written incorrectly which was my fault, my dad currently sits at home all day and as you say writes application letters and is active in finding a new job. In fact some unemployed people are the most hard working people because they know how important a job is whereas others in jobs can just take it for granted until they lose it.

 

I think Too Tall summed up the whole thing in one perfect sentence though:

She cares about the attendees, it’s what makes someone a good crew member, because they do their very best to look after the attendees.

Regardless of what happens, you will never get a better person than someone that cares about the attendees.

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