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FIFA have jsut published the official placings from the tournament, not sure how these are worked out but here you go anyway:

 

1 Spain, 2 Netherlands, 3 Germany, 4 Uruguay, 5 Argentina, 6 Brazil, 7 Ghana, 8 Paraguay

 

9 Japan, 10 Chile, 11 Portugal, 12 United States, 13 England, 14 Mexico, 15 South Korea, 16 Slovakia

 

17 Ivory Coast, 18 Slovenia, 19 Switzerland, 20 South Africa, 21 Australia, 22 New Zealand, 23 Serbia, 24 Denmark

 

25 Greece, 26 Italy, 27 Nigeria, 28 Algeria, 29 France, 30 Honduras, 31 Cameroon, 32 North Korea

 

Apparently this is England's worse ever placing at a World Cup, the previous worse was 11th in 1958. Still could be worse, look where France and Italy finished, bet New Zealand didn't see themselves being better off than them at the start of things!

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Wonder if they have a clause in it to cover Spurs in case 'arry gets found guilty for tax evasion. LOL

 

Torres transfer fee seems to be dropping, still convinced the lack of form and injuries is a conspiracy so that he'll end up going somewhere for peanuts. :D

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Torres transfer fee seems to be dropping, still convinced the lack of form and injuries is a conspiracy so that he'll end up going somewhere for peanuts.

Not convinced it's a conspiracy - he's about one injury away from being Michael Owen with a Spanish accent...

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Not convinced it's a conspiracy - he's about one injury away from being Michael Owen with a Spanish accent...

 

That was my point, mercenary Owen keeps on getting injured and runs down his contract whilst taking high wages and then and walks away for minimal transfer/ free transfers from LFC to Real Madrid and then did the same at Newcastle.

 

Owen played the system, hoping that Torres isn't doing the same just because maybe he has had a few injuries, girlfriend and kid want to move back to Spain etc.

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Torres' transfer fee is at a level only the selling and buying clubs can set and agree upon. No amount of media coverage can say that the recent tweak of his groin during the final has cost his value to drop by 10 to 20 Million Euros. As usual, the media are printing the usual complete tosh.

 

Liverpool FC have clearly stated that Torres is not for sale. Like any business transaction, if a club comes in and offers a high amount, then that may change. It will never change, so live with the fact that the media rags have to print something in order to sell the toilet paper reserves.

 

Conspiracy? Is this the same conspiracy that alleged Rafa had not spoken to him in 6 months?

 

If Torres goes, and remember that injuries can and do heal, then it will be on Liverpool FC's terms. This past season has been a bad one for Fernando, but by no means the end of his career or an indication that he will end up periodically injured. If you look at the way the Liverpool squad was handled last season, then I am not surprised the injuries that were sustained. Maybe this season will indicate a new slate for a team with a very rich history.

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Not convinced it's a conspiracy - he's about one injury away from being Michael Owen with a Spanish accent...

 

That was my point, mercenary Owen keeps on getting injured and runs down his contract whilst taking high wages and then and walks away for minimal transfer/ free transfers from LFC to Real Madrid and then did the same at Newcastle.

 

Owen played the system, hoping that Torres isn't doing the same just because maybe he has had a few injuries, girlfriend and kid want to move back to Spain etc.

 

Owen was sold during the change over from Houllier to Benitez. Real Madrid had publicly courted him, and nothing was done to keep him at the club. Extremely bad man management in my opinion.

 

Then, only used as a substitute in the main in Spain, it was not a shock when he moved back to England.

 

As regards Newcastle, we can only go on what the media and club say publicly. MO was on high wages, and the club under Ashley was leaking money at an alarming rate.

 

So, Owen is not the mercenary he is generally made out to be. He has been used and off loaded. I think his best move was to think of number one.

 

Will Torres risk going to Barcelona or Chelsea where he will not be guaranteed a start? I think not. At Liverpool he is a big player. An integral part of a big machine. With the Euro qualifiers coming up, I can't see him risk going to either club and be just a commodity rather than a player. Benitez has gone, and Hodgson is a totally different style of Manager. Although I do not see trophies next season, I do see a major improvement in Liverpool's fortunes.

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Torres' transfer fee is at a level only the selling and buying clubs can set and agree upon.

Assuming there is no break clause in his contract. I'm not aware of one, but there again I haven't actually seen, let alone read said document.

Liverpool FC have clearly stated that Torres is not for sale.

Which only means that they're not actively looking to offload him. Given his role and impact at Liverpool in recent seasons, that's about as surprising as the sun rising in the east. But the history of football is littered with cases of players who weren't for sale, who then moved on (or were moved on) very soon after such statements were made. As you rightly point out:

Like any business transaction, if a club comes in and offers a high amount, then that may change.

Until you then say

It will never change

Que? Directly contradicting yourself, or does that "it" refer to something else?

 

So, Owen is not the mercenary he is generally made out to be. He has been used and off loaded. I think his best move was to think of number one.

I agree entirely. I got the impression Liverpool were glad to see Owen leave and handled it badly. Newcastle were a basket case. As for everything else, he's a man doing a job; nobody forced those clubs pay him those wages. And whilst top pro footballers get paid an awful lot, it's a short career, and one that can be shorter than you expect - ask Chris Ashton. Owen did precisely the right thing in thinking of number one, as you can be sure the clubs aren't necessarily thinking of what's best for him. And if he'd acted differently, in a way that would have guaranteed him the warm and fuzzy feelings of all Liverpool or Newcastle supporters for evermore, I think we all know exactly how much of his utility bills those warm and fuzzy feelings would pay in 5, 10 or 20 years time, and exactly how much food it would put on his table...

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Like any business transaction, if a club comes in and offers a high amount, then that may change.

Until you then say

It will never change

Que? Directly contradicting yourself, or does that "it" refer to something else?

The complete sentence was

"Liverpool FC have clearly stated that Torres is not for sale. Like any business transaction, if a club comes in and offers a high amount, then that may change. It will never change, so live with the fact that the media rags have to print something in order to sell the toilet paper reserves."
and was part of a bigger post responding to someone's paranoia about Torres being sold etc etc etc. I think conspiracy was used at one point.

 

"It" refers to the usual toilet paper reserves commonly referred to as the print media. They will never change. Their reporting methods will never change. They put things into people's minds in order to sell their rags. That is what will never change. So, no contradiction as regards Liverpool's public stance of Torres not being for sale.

 

As regards a "break clause", the new Chairman has publicly stated that all of the players who signed contracts in the last year - these included Reina, Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt and Carragher - did not have a "offer this amount and you can speak to the player" monetary get out clause.

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Liverpool FC have clearly stated that Torres is not for sale. Like any business transaction, if a club comes in and offers a high amount, then that may change.

 

LFC will never say he's up for sale, as that would just lower the price, as any negotiations would start at a low level. By saying they don't want to sell will either put clubs off or force buying clubs to make an offer that is too good to turn down.

 

You were right to say, you can't judge the player by one bad and injury plagued season but based on the much reported financial state of the club, the need to get rid of some deadwood and build a squad likely to suit the new managers style will cost money.

 

If a silly offer comes in, i say take it and improve the team in two or three positions rather than rely on Gerrard and Torres to perform miracles everyweek. But offers of £30m or so wouldn't achieve this, so it's got to be big money or nothing.

 

On a seperate point, with Hodgson in charge, it's likely to be the end of zonal marking, what will the 'expert commentators' talk about whenever we let a goal in now! :P

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Great to see that Roy Hodgson has left the Swiss training camp to visit Torres personally in Spain. It has also been mentioned that Torres was wearing a Liverpool scarf during the celebrations.

 

As regards selling, to be more specific, Liverpool have stated that the top stars are not for sale, and the club do not need to sale to manage the debt. Yes, any new manager will want to trim the fat and beef up the squad. That is natural progression. Names like Babel and Reira have been mentioned. Ngog is going to West Brom on a season long loan subject to Liverpool signing 1 or 2 more strikers.

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Aurelio gone as well, who do you reckon would be a good left back to replace?

 

Babel, reiera, Ngog, El Zhar, Aquilani, could lose all of them as well and no one would notice.

 

Benayoun will be missed but not irreplaceable.

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Aquilani will be one for this season. He never stood a chance last season coming in so late, into a team that was being mis-managed, and also not playing much.

 

Left back...hmm..not sure. Didn't realise that Aurelio had gone.

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I'm still undecided on Insua, 5m would represent a good deal for someone who hasn't really delivered or shown much sign of improvement this season when he's been given an extended run. Then again the other part of me thinks this is his first season playing in the first team, he's still pretty young and he's not really been able to develop an understanding with any one player playing ahead of him in midfield. Johnson has Kuyt in front of him for most games but for Insua it was any one of Riera, Babel or Yossi each week, none of whom are really known for their tracking back.

 

I see little point in keeping Babel unless we are going to finally see him getting a run of games playing through the middle which I am convinced is his best position, and by a run of games I don't mean getting ten minutes at the end of matches when the rest of the team are going through the motions. I don't think his attitude his been everything it should be in his time at the club but I can still remember a certain Thierry Henry being written off by a lot of people when he was being played as a left winger.

 

I think N'Gog has been decent value for money, scored a few goals, filled in some gaps but at the end of the day I don't really think he is ever likely to have the quality to play regularly for Liverpool. If a decent offer comes in I would probably accept it.

 

I'd give Aquilani another season, because of the injuries and lack of football when he was apparently fit I don't think we saw enough of him last season. Towards the end of the season though when he played a few games playing off the striker I thought the signs were there that there is some quality. I know the opposition wasn't the best but I thought he linked up very well with Dirk Kuyt when we beat Burnley at the end of the season. One of my biggest gripes last season was when Torres wasn't available, that Rafa still played Gerrard as a second striker off Kuyt which for me just didn't work, they didn't really seem to play off each other like Torres and Gerrard did. If Aquilani and Kuyt can form something then I think thats worth exploring. Besides selling him now we would take a serious loss on him, can't see anyone giving us near the money we paid for him.

 

El Zhar to me sums up too many young players of the Rafa era, loads of hype when they first signed, huge wait for a first team appearance then no real sign of progression before the dissapear. Paul Anderson, Jack Hobbs, El Zhar, Darren Potter, Christopher Buchtmann all of them were going to be huge players and none have really gone anywhere.

 

Yossi had his moments but he seemed to lose his way last season, again I don't think we saw him in his best position, I would love to have seen him playing off Torres, he was very clever at finding space and making clever passes but when he was out on the wing he cut inside too much and left the team very narrow.

 

I assume Riera will go sooner rather than later, I think he rates himself a lot higher than he should do. Decent player on his day just that his days aren't often enough!

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I presume Aurelio did go, he wasn't being offered a new contract as he rejected a pay as you play deal (always injured so can't imagine why he opt for one of those! :blush: ) However that was under Benitez, so maybe there was a u-turn but as far as I know he was released.

 

Yeah, Aquilani might shine this season. The same was said a few times about Babel, but can't tar everyone with the same brush. Think the problem with Aquilani was the price Benitez paid despite knowing he had a long term injury.

 

He will never live up to the expectations of what any sane one of us would consider being world class enough to shell out that amount of cash for, hate to think what he would of paid for the lad if he was fully fit at the time.

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Just checked and Fabio Aurelio is a free agent.

 

Hodgson confirmed that he has had good meetings with Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres in person. He also added that the Chairman spoke with Torres at length after he (Hodgson) left to return to Switzerland.

 

He finished out by saying that Liverpool will not welcome any courting of their players, or any offers for Gerrard or Torres. These comments are additional to previous comments about them not being for sale.

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Well at least thats staing the clubs position clearly.

 

Whether other clubs such as Barcelona and Man City take any notice remains to be seen. Doesn't sound very promising news about Mascherano, heard that Hodgson had been unable to contact him.

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Disagree about Arbeloa, seemed to me that the whole defence was unsettled last season, whether it was the loss of Arbeloa or other factors such as the arrival of Johnson, they just didn't function as a unit right from the off.

 

Guess we'll never know for sure. Hodgson seemed to get the best out of Fulham, so hopefully we'll see a newly resilient defence next season.

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