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DavidB

Lost - 'The End' - Finale Discussion

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Can someone clear something up for me.

 

Im a bit confused by the timelines of everything and the following is doing my head in -

 

Ben and Locke went to the shack to see Jacob but he was invisible (a spirit??) and whilst going nuts and shaking the place up he whispered help me.

 

Now we know Jacob died at the hands of Ben, my question is thus. If Jacob was alive at the time of the shack why didnt he appear to Ben and Locke or was it the case that the way it all worked out, the shack moment was actually after Jacobs death due to time travel and all that jazz? This would explain why he was a spirit, otherwise im confused muchly

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although im much more disappointed than this review i think its a decent review from the bbc website

 

 

 

"At 0500 BST, about 30 seconds after an on-screen message saying UK viewers were watching Lost: Live from the US - its first and last simultaneous UK/US broadcast - another screen popped up reading Temporary Fault.

 

Oops. Luckily the message lasted only a few seconds before normal service was resumed, and so began one of the most anticipated television finales in recent history.

 

Anticipated because in the six years since Lost began, it has had the power to enthral and infuriate in equal measure.

 

It launched with what is still the most expensive pilot episode in TV history.

 

The initial concept was pretty simple - a plane crashed on a mysterious island and the survivors soon found themselves locked in a constant battle against The Others - a hostile group of island residents and some kind of monster that lived in the bushes.

 

In series two, we found out that people had been on the island for some time and we learned all about the Dharma initiative.

 

All good so far but then the series seemed to lose its way when it started flashing forward to a future with a dead John Locke, a bitter drug-addicted Jack and the rest of the Oceanic Six living out their "normal" lives.

 

The island began time-travelling, half the the gang ended up living as part of the Dharma initiative in 1973, we were introduced to the island's almost mythical protector Jacob as he met the so-called "candidates" at points throughout their lives, then there was the return to the island, the Man In Black...

 

The show had become so complex that any rational explanation to the question: "What is it all about?" was always going to be a tough one.

 

The cynics questioned whether writers and head honchos Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse had any idea where it was all heading.

 

So, the final episode. The finish line. The finale. The end. Was it all worth it?

 

Life affirming

Honestly, the show ended the only way it could have possibly ended. It was emotionally satisfying while some of the questions were answered and yet others will remain a mystery.

 

All in all, the show was wrapped up rather nicely with a positive affirming kind of message.

 

It all began with Flocke (as in Fake Locke, or the Man In Black) having vowed to destroy the island with the help of Desmond, taking him to the island's life source.

 

Jack, having volunteered to be Jacob's replacement on the island, had the same idea, but rather than using Desmond to destroy the island, he had vowed to kill Flocke.

 

The fates of the survivors were revealed

Desmond did not end up destroying the island. He came very close but by unplugging the island's light source, he succeeded in making Flocke human, thus allowing Kate to kill him with a shot to the back.

 

Was this a bit of a disappointing end to the Man In Black, the chief antagonist of the last season? Possibly, and a slightly unfair one as well.

 

The Man In Black (he never even got a name) certainly got a bit of a raw deal when goody-two shoes Jacob threw him into the light source some two thousand years earlier, robbing him both of his body and his humanity.

 

Was he all bad? He certainly was a bit of a trouble-maker who carried out a few terrible deeds. But in the Across the Sea episode of season six - we saw a man who saw the limitations of his life on island and saw his destiny elsewhere.

 

By killing him, there, was no chance of his redemption.

 

Also, surely killing him resulted in a loss of balance on the island. All of Lost's imagery pointed to good and bad co-existing, the black and white stones, the struggle between light and dark.

 

In the struggle that preceded the fatal shooting, Jack was mortally wounded and resolved to stay and repair the island. Hurley went with him and Jack made him his successor as island protector.

 

Meanwhile, Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Miles, Richard and Lapidis managed to get the plane working with the help of some duct tape and flew off the island to safety.

 

Meanwhile, the flashes sideways continued as the survivors were all drawn together at the music concert at the Widmores.

 

Locke had accepted Jack's offer of surgery and was now capable of walking unaided. Hurley took Sayid to a bar where - after stopping a fight - he was reunited with Shannon.

 

Sun and Jin were reminded of their time on the island as they saw the ultrasound of their baby and Sawyer and Juliet met again in a touching scene by a snack machine.

 

Flashes explained

As early as the first season, there were suggestions that no-one survived the plane crash and the island was some sort of purgatory.

 

Close but no cigar. The island was real and as Jack's dad Christian Shephard ( ... Kate was the one that spotted it. Really how did we all miss that one?) pointed out "everything that happened, happened".

 

Instead, we learned that rather than being some some kind of alternate-timeline, the flashes sideways were glimpses of a kind of limbo between life and death.

 

In their deaths - some on the island, some much, much later - they were all pulled together to move on to the afterlife.

 

The people that meant most to them during their lives would be there with them as they moved on to the next plane of existence.

 

With various philosophies running throughout the entire series, the final scenes took place in a multi-denominational place of worship.

 

There were some genuinely moving touches, Ben remained outside the gathering, not quite ready to leave his own personal purgatory and forgive himself for his sins.

 

Yet Locke did offer him gratefully accepted forgiveness and Hurley, who invited Ben into the gathering said he was a "good number two", with Ben telling Hurley he was a "great number one".

 

We were left to assume that the two men acted as protectors of the island for some time.

 

It ended as it had begun with Jack lying in the same bamboo forest in which we first met him in episode one. Back then Jack opened his eyes for the first time on the island, this time around he closed them for the last.

 

Yes, the finale could be accused of being a bit melodramatic and certainly there were many issues left unaddressed.

 

Whatever happened to Michael and Walt? What was the significance of the Egyptian statue on the island? What about the temple? Why, at the beginning of this series, was the island underwater?

 

Discussions will likely rage for years to come but if there is any lesson from the final episode, then it is that sometimes you just have to let go."

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Jakeblue, from what I interpreted, the cabin was never, or at least not recently, inhabited by Jacob. We know that the Monster took the form of Christian, and was the one who tricked Claire into staying at the end of Season 4, and the end of Season 5 when Illana went to the cabin to find Jacob, they found a break in the ashes around it(the ashes that repel the monster) and she said that it looked like someone else had been using it, which led me to believe that the Monster had been tricking the Others into believing he was Jacob(hence giving them bad orders and making them bad people when they believed they were doing good, not really appearing to them etc)

 

And timelord81r, if you don't mind me saying, perhaps you did expect a bit too much from a single episode lol. They may have 'had 3 years to plan the finale' however the key to the show was to just enjoy those 3 years. It wasn't as if everything that was done was done in order to build up to the final episode, everything was done so that we would enjoy the journey on the way to the final episode, which I believe was acheived. When you think about it, if there ARE any people criticising the last episode, look at it in a positive way, you might not like that episode, but you liked the other 120 along the way!

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The people that meant most to them during their lives would be there with them as they moved on to the next plane of existence

 

This isnt strictly true is it?

 

Surely they all had others in their lives that were equally important to them? Kate and Sawyer both lived on off the island, logic dictates that they got married (not necessarily to each other of course), kids, grandkids etc etc. Surely these people would be more important for them to wait around for then a bunch of people they went through hell with on a mystical island?

 

Some of the couples werent even together that long on the island. Sayid and Shannon, Hurley and Libby, Claire and Charlie so to claim that they were the most important people to each other is a bit of a stretch.

 

Whilst its argued that you need to get over not knowing everything i think you also have to concede that the ending we got was the ending we were given as the happiest ending possible and has nothing really to do with them being the most important people in each others lives.

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The people that meant most to them during their lives would be there with them as they moved on to the next plane of existence

 

This isnt strictly true is it?

 

Surely they all had others in their lives that were equally important to them? Kate and Sawyer both lived on off the island, logic dictates that they got married (not necessarily to each other of course), kids, grandkids etc etc. Surely these people would be more important for them to wait around for then a bunch of people they went through hell with on a mystical island?

 

Some of the couples werent even together that long on the island. Sayid and Shannon, Hurley and Libby, Claire and Charlie so to claim that they were the most important people to each other is a bit of a stretch.

 

Whilst its argued that you need to get over not knowing everything i think you also have to concede that the ending we got was the ending we were given as the happiest ending possible and has nothing really to do with them being the most important people in each others lives.

That's something we disagree on then. To me the end was really about Love(might be corny to some) but it's the strongest emotion of all. Hurley might have done a lot in his life after the show ends, but I think he would always want to be with Libby as it was the only girl he truely loved. Charlie was a loser until Claire gave him a reason in life. Sawyer lived off the Island as did Kate, but Sawyer's true love was Juliet, who he was happiest with, and Kate's love was Jack(as they both admitted it when they said goodbye) so it stands to reason they would do anything to be with their loved ones again.

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Plus it's open to a lot of interpretation. Was that final part just for Jack to be able to move on? Would someone else get a completely different set of people?

 

It's something you can question as much as you want but there'll never be answers because it's not something that is based in cold hard fact.

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QUOTE

The people that meant most to them during their lives would be there with them as they moved on to the next plane of existence

 

 

This isnt strictly true is it?

 

Surely they all had others in their lives that were equally important to them? Kate and Sawyer both lived on off the island, logic dictates that they got married (not necessarily to each other of course), kids, grandkids etc etc. Surely these people would be more important for them to wait around for then a bunch of people they went through hell with on a mystical island?

 

Some of the couples werent even together that long on the island. Sayid and Shannon, Hurley and Libby, Claire and Charlie so to claim that they were the most important people to each other is a bit of a stretch.

 

Whilst its argued that you need to get over not knowing everything i think you also have to concede that the ending we got was the ending we were given as the happiest ending possible and has nothing really to do with them being the most important people in each others lives.

 

 

That's something we disagree on then. To me the end was really about Love(might be corny to some) but it's the strongest emotion of all. Hurley might have done a lot in his life after the show ends, but I think he would always want to be with Libby as it was the only girl he truely loved. Charlie was a loser until Claire gave him a reason in life. Sawyer lived off the Island as did Kate, but Sawyer's true love was Juliet, who he was happiest with, and Kate's love was Jack(as they both admitted it when they said goodbye) so it stands to reason they would do anything to be with their loved ones again.

 

Seems to me youre twisting the ending to your own definition but that i guess is the point of the show. I find it very hard to swallow that in all the life led after or before the island and death that every single one of the losties didnt have anyone special to them that was more important than the people they connected to on the island.

 

Kate for instance, may well have decided on Jack in the end but she flipfllopped so many time between him and Sawyer who knows what she was really thinking.

 

Sayids true love was his wife (name escapes me) and not Shannon imo.

 

Memory is shady so feel free to correct me but Boone had no connection with anyone on the island (outside of Locke maybe) so other than being there for the 'happy' ending what purpose did he serve? Im pretty sure he wasnt at his happiest with the losties on the island.

 

Same with Desmond really, yes he was with Penny but he hated his time on the island so why would he choose to wait and leave with them?

 

Your argument is valid for some but flawed for others. Sawyer and Julieete ill buy into as they spent all that time as a couple in the 70s.

 

Plus it's open to a lot of interpretation. Was that final part just for Jack to be able to move on? Would someone else get a completely different set of people?

 

It's something you can question as much as you want but there'll never be answers because it's not something that is based in cold hard fact.

 

OK i can buy into this too. However why would Jack need all of those people to move on, some i can understand, Kate, Locke, Sawyer maybe, but Penny, Shannon, Boone, Libby, cant see it myself.

 

Yes i know you guys are of the just go with it school of thought but there must be some stuff youd question, otherwise whats the point?

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I would think that Jack would need to see these people happy, and know that his death on the island meant something, which means ones like Penny and Libby etc are essential.

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I am satisfied with how it ended. I understand that people want answers to every little thing that ever happened ever, but I don't think that was ever what we were going to get with Lost. This show depended on confusion and knocking us sideways. If everything was explained and tied up in a neat bow then what's left to think about? It reverberates inside your head and keeps you wondering and the finale delivered that, I feel. It was consistent with the last six years. I feel like I know enough, but there's still things left for me to ponder for myself, which I think is the sign of a tv show that respects the intelligence and imagination of their audience. There was an element of cheese to the flash sideways explanation *but* it was beautifully done, and still left confusion as, just for a second, you are completely sure that they've actually done the 'they were always dead' theory before going 'ahhhh, I see.'

 

I feel sorry for those that think the finale cheated them out of the satisfying, all -laid-out-on-the-table ending that they were expecting. But you can never please everyone. I'm sure if the writers had used what precious little time they had to explain EVERYTHING then I would be on here having a whinge that they neglected to honour the characters and the journey we've gone on with them in favour of trying to tell us too much.

 

But that's just me. And I can't wait to buy the complete series and watch it from the beginning.

 

P.S. DavidB - I wept as soon as Flocke spotted the paw prints! So happy to see Vincent :-P And I am in love with Ben's ending. I'm really glad that he was 'fulfilled', as it were, but not quite ready to join them.

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I pretty much made my own interpretation of the ending. It has holes but then half of the theories I have read have gaps in them too. I feel pretty fulfilled with my version of events so I'll leave it at that :)

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just finished to watch it and didn't really enjoyed the last episode. The end was too easy and as much as I appareciate you can answr everything, they could have answered some. there are too many unswared questions.

 

not really impressed with the end.

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I enjoyed it as a finale, plenty of drama and emotion, but I still would have liked some of the questions answered that weren't. I thought the writers had said they would deal with the major issues, but for me they didn't answer the big questions:

 

1. What was the light (and even the Island itself) and why was it so important to protect it ?

2. Who was the woman that became Jacob and Jacob's brothers mother, and why was she on the Island in the first place ?

3. It appeared from the episode that featured in point 2, that the black smoke only escaped out of the bright lighted cavern when Jacob's brother was drowned and sent into it. It then came out and took on the form of Jacob's brother, but no explanation of why it was down there in the first place.

 

I'm less bothered about some of the other smaller mysteries or characters, but I was hoping that when they entered the Church , the Minister for the Service would be Mr Ecko.

 

Still, the end of an era and with Ashes to Ashes ending as well, what am I going to watch now ??? :smile:

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i liked this bit on the link to the finale questions, lol

 

 

So here we go: After much executive producer protestation that the island was not, in fact, a Purgatory — the first guess most people made about the big mystery early on in season one — the Flash Sideways turns out to be a Purgatory, and, just to rub some salt in your stigmata, it had no effect on what happened on the island?

 

It is what it is. You’re either down with the Flash Sideways as a place where our beloved characters connected for the last time before their posthumous Wake-Ups allowed them to move on to the Very Well-Lit Next Place together, or you feel betrayed by a spiritual non-answer of a final answer. Or perhaps you feel both of these things, or neither. There’s some very complicated emotional sh*t happening within all of us right now, okay, as we stare into a television set that now deprives us of a mythology-heavy serial that we can endlessly debate on the internet.

 

OK, yeah, great, but wasn’t the island under water in the Flash Sideways?

Ssssh!

 

Why bother with that if nothing there was “realâ€?â€

Enough. Purgatory!

 

Why no Walt and Michael at the party?

[Plugs ears.]

 

What was up with that final-final shot of the seemingly undisturbed Oceanic crash site over the end credits?

It was just a pretty picture!

 

Was that inserted so that we could could think, if we really wanted an alternate mindf*cky ending, that maybe no one survived the initial crash, and the whole show was afterlife?

No. No!

 

Then why was it there?! They already showed Jack closing his eye in the “final imageâ€!

We hate you so much right now.

 

These questions could go on forever, couldn’t they?

Endings are really, really hard.

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A great episode, very bitter sweet at the end, the acting was great and seeing the discovery of their island lives was superb. oh and I am glad vincent came back. :P

 

I will miss this show that was complex, well acted shot, and so ****** frustrating with the questions it raised and did not answer, for a show that airs in Ameri** and the world (if you look at how other shows heroes, connect the dots for plot, a.b.c etc..) I am surprised it lasted this long, as many less complicated shows have been axed.

 

Question were they alive and then died when the 815 crashed or were they already dead before the island?.

What was the point of the button, if they were dead already.

 

To me after watching the final episode it appears that the island is for dead people only, a place to redeam one self, a second chance. If so, Who thought up the Darma initiative, the button thingy. sub, Who were the people in the temple? dead as well, polar bears? who is charles Widmore is he dead, did he want the role of jacob?

 

What powers do you get if you become Jacob? the lighthouse?

 

soooo many questions to be answered, I guess just left to the imagination and to read the forums etc...

 

This was a great show, which will be sadly missed questions and all. :D:P

Edited by RiversideJon

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bloody networks, how can the site of a plane crash wreckage be more helpful getting ppl in the mood for the news than a black screen with credits and music? it did seem very much as though it was intentional as part of the finale for what ever reason from the writers producers or what have you and not the networks, bet the lost writers were not happy

 

if the bbc did that with doctor who id be livid lol

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I thought the final images of the plane seemed quite fitting. I didn't read anything into them at all, and goes to show like I said previously that some people read FAR too much into certain things in Lost. I just thought it seemed like a fitting way to end, showing the crash site where the show began

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I thought the final images of the plane seemed quite fitting. I didn't read anything into them at all, and goes to show like I said previously that some people read FAR too much into certain things in Lost. I just thought it seemed like a fitting way to end, showing the crash site where the show began

 

Yeah, I thought the same.

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Question were they alive and then died when the 815 crashed or were they already dead before the island?.

Neither. As stated elsewhere in the thread, everything we saw happen on the island really happened. The characters who died on the island in the show really died at that time, and the characters who escaped in the plane at the end of the finale really did escape.

What Jack's dad explained is that because of the impact of the time spent together on the island in their lives, the Losties created a kind of limbo where they would all meet when they died so that they could head off to the afterlife together. Obviously we know when Boon and Locke and Shannon and Juliet etc died, but with the characters who made it off the island, for all we know they went on to live long lives and die of old age. But when they met in the afterlife (where time has no bearing - Christian Shephard mentions that "there is no now here") they appeared to each other as they were on the island.

Edited by timpe

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I don't like the theory of the ending being only Jack's way of moving on. I like to take it as/want it to be the entire groups moving on together. If it was just Jack's personal moment then it makes moments like Ben and Hurley's/Ben and Locke's conversation outside the church and Christian telling Jack that "this is the place they created together so they could find each other" a bit pointless.

 

This is one of many reasons I love this ending though! It let's everyone take what they want from it!

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Here are a few questions that are not answered which in the episodes they were shown were important.

 

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291 :P

 

When sawyer was on the Black Rock, finding out about Lockes father etc.. he says that they are all dead and are in hell, but no one believes him. So there were clues all the way through. anyhow great show, poor ending, great ending as long as you dont think about the past episodes.

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I don't like the theory of the ending being only Jack's way of moving on.

 

I saw it a different way entirely than the group moving on (or Jack as some on a few boardshave speculated - which you pointed out makes little sense). But as Hurley's 'new way' of doing things. Ben suggested a new order and instead of letting Desmond go home, Hurley could have made sure everyone had a happy ending in some way shape or form.

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