Showmasters: What is going on?

[Johhanneh]

showmasters rob you. which ok, is a bit extreme, but compared to other cons, the cost of things arent exactly cheap. but hey, i like celebs, so i cant really complain. but i do think £15 for an autograph is a bit much.

I'd be very interested to know what you're comparing this to?

 

Without naming names (as we cant), I have no idea what cons in THIS COUNTRY offer a similar package for a far lower price. They're all pretty standard.

 

Same with the autograph pricing actually. It's fairly standard across the board these days.

 

Considering Showmasters have lost money on many events, I can't see how they're robbing anyone. If they lowered prices to something you consider more reasonable, they'd lose even more. I would imagine you don't really know the costs involved, just like most attendees don't.

 

I agree with this actually - £15 for an autograph is amazingly cheap and £195 for a gold ticket is decent value, particularly as it includes photoshoots which others don't!

 

That being said - what Showmasters have consistently failed to realise was that the failure of Lockdown meant they had to do more this time to convince fans to buy tickets. I love Michael Emerson but I was never going to buy until there was one or two more half decent guests announced. I feared a Lockdown 2 - or even worse as if Michael cancelled and the other guests were from Alias or Fringe I wouldn't personally have bothered going as my interest was Lost.

[Lostmaniac]

showmasters rob you. which ok, is a bit extreme, but compared to other cons, the cost of things arent exactly cheap. but hey, i like celebs, so i cant really complain. but i do think £15 for an autograph is a bit much.

I'd be very interested to know what you're comparing this to?

 

Without naming names (as we cant), I have no idea what cons in THIS COUNTRY offer a similar package for a far lower price. They're all pretty standard.

 

Same with the autograph pricing actually. It's fairly standard across the board these days.

 

Considering Showmasters have lost money on many events, I can't see how they're robbing anyone. If they lowered prices to something you consider more reasonable, they'd lose even more. I would imagine you don't really know the costs involved, just like most attendees don't.

 

I agree with this actually - £15 for an autograph is amazingly cheap and £195 for a gold ticket is decent value, particularly as it includes photoshoots which others don't!

 

That being said - what Showmasters have consistently failed to realise was that the failure of Lockdown meant they had to do more this time to convince fans to buy tickets. I love Michael Emerson but I was never going to buy until there was one or two more half decent guests announced. I feared a Lockdown 2 - or even worse as if Michael cancelled and the other guests were from Alias or Fringe I wouldn't personally have bothered going as my interest was Lost.

 

I agree lost was the convention . There might of been 1 or 2 fringe,alias fans . But as you said if micheal was the only lost guest (and your going there as you like lost) alot of people wouldnt of wanted to go.

[TommyT]

I dont want to be a comedian. I just want to be me and forget my jokes and move on and dont constantly talk about it like you.

Now I'll grant you that one was funny and made me laugh; that was your 35th post in that flurry, this is my 3rd, but I'm the one constantly talking?

[CosmicAvatar]

I watch all three shows but Alias and Fringe are the ones I prefer. I wasn't interested in Lockdown, but this con caught my interest because of the wider range of potential guests available. (I appreciate not everyone watches all three shows or even more than one of them, mind.) I bought a ticket because I was hoping Michael Emerson would start the ball rolling and then a Fringe and/or Alias guest would be announced to balance things out, with more from the three shows to follow. Oh, well!

 

 

Edit: ooops, wrong tags!

Edited June 24, 2009 by CosmicAvatar

[Dukedwarfer]

With all due respect, Duke, you can't KNOW what each main cast member would cost (esp as they've all never done a show here) and if you've never run an event, you're talking out of your ar$e. David Boreanez I've heard from another organiser directly asks for a 6 figure sum. Now that is AT LEAST �100,000. For all we know, Matthew Fox etc are all on a par with that. You need to look at travel, food, hotel etc... and exchange rate. Add a 0 onto the end of that figure you gave and you're prob more accurate.

 

 

Trust me I know. I am in a very fortunate position to know things like this. As I say I keep most things to myself out of respect to showmasters, but I can tell you that a Lost con is do able, and I really feel strongly that showmasters have got it wrong here.

 

I am not saying that Showmasters should be as good as Alan Suger (although I can picture in my mind what he would have to say about all this!! ) but if they had a different approch, I would bet good money this would of worked, and produced a nice profit for them.

[chris_mk]

With all due respect, Duke, you can't KNOW what each main cast member would cost (esp as they've all never done a show here) and if you've never run an event, you're talking out of your ar$e. David Boreanez I've heard from another organiser directly asks for a 6 figure sum. Now that is AT LEAST �100,000. For all we know, Matthew Fox etc are all on a par with that. You need to look at travel, food, hotel etc... and exchange rate. Add a 0 onto the end of that figure you gave and you're prob more accurate.

 

 

Trust me I know. I am in a very fortunate position to know things like this. As I say I keep most things to myself out of respect to showmasters, but I can tell you that a Lost con is do able, and I really feel strongly that showmasters have got it wrong here.

 

I am not saying that Showmasters should be as good as Alan Suger (although I can picture in my mind what he would have to say about all this!! ) but if they had a different approch, I would bet good money this would of worked, and produced a nice profit for them.

 

So are you saying that you are a rival promoter.... because that's what it sounds like.

[Jordy]

I don't claim to know exactly what guests get paid, and of course organisers won't say specifically, but after going to several cons you begin to get an idea. £45 000 to cover FOUR Lost main cast members seems way way too low to me.

[chris_mk]

I don't claim to know exactly what guests get paid, and of course organisers won't say specifically, but after going to several cons you begin to get an idea. £45 000 to cover FOUR Lost main cast members seems way way too low to me.

 

I don't know either, but I'd wager it's nearer £20K for a main cast (excluding Josh, Matthew and Evie who I suspect would be a lot more.) I was told by another promoter that a guest from a cable TV Sci Fi show wanted to charge $75K for a weekend event. Suffice to say that they were priced out of the market.

[Dukedwarfer]

With all due respect, Duke, you can't KNOW what each main cast member would cost (esp as they've all never done a show here) and if you've never run an event, you're talking out of your ar$e. David Boreanez I've heard from another organiser directly asks for a 6 figure sum. Now that is AT LEAST �100,000. For all we know, Matthew Fox etc are all on a par with that. You need to look at travel, food, hotel etc... and exchange rate. Add a 0 onto the end of that figure you gave and you're prob more accurate.

 

 

Trust me I know. I am in a very fortunate position to know things like this. As I say I keep most things to myself out of respect to showmasters, but I can tell you that a Lost con is do able, and I really feel strongly that showmasters have got it wrong here.

 

I am not saying that Showmasters should be as good as Alan Suger (although I can picture in my mind what he would have to say about all this!! ) but if they had a different approch, I would bet good money this would of worked, and produced a nice profit for them.

 

So are you saying that you are a rival promoter.... because that's what it sounds like.

 

LOL! No mate! Wish I had the time to do something like this!!

[Count Fooku]

Leave it

[buffy2k]

With some guests charging £10k deposit i cant see how you can get 4 main cast members from any show up front of sales?Some fans dont seem to understand the cost of running these events you see it all the time on forums "i want" with no idea the sums involved and if ME paid this out would they lose it if the event wasnt a success?. I was at an event 6 yrs ago where the main star was supposedly paid £250k to appear!

 

I go to a lot of conventions & you do normally get 1 or 2 guest to start with then add them as the ticket sales come in so actually it does work out that you have to commit before more guests are added. There are always some saying "i would have booked" ... but from an organisers point of view how can you add further guests when you dont even know if the con is selling. Some people here just didnt book at the end of the day to allow ME to get any further guests yet seem happy to moan afterwards when it didn't work out.

 

When other cons are selling with 1 or2 guests, i just think you have to commit with cash to these things rather than words to make them a success.

Edited June 25, 2009 by buffy2k

[Dukedwarfer]

I know there are some guests from shows who will charge £10k deposit just for starters before you get to travel,hotels. Some people dont seem to understand the cost of running these events you see it all the time posted on forums "i want" or "can we have" with absolutely no idea the sums involved in bringing that person over. I was at one event several years back where a guest was reportedly paid £250k to appear for 2 days!

 

Its all very well asking for 4 guests before you book but then ME would have to pay out 4 deposits but would they get it back if it didnt run and if not then your down a lot of money?. I go to a lot of conventions & you do normally get 1 or 2 guest to start with then add them as the ticket sales come in so actually it does work out that you have to commit before more guests are added. There are always some saying "i would have booked" ... but from an organisers point of view how can you add further guests when you dont even know if the con is selling. Some people here just didnt book at the end of the day to allow ME to get any further guests yet seem happy to moan afterwards when it didn't work out.

 

When other cons are selling with 1 or2 guests, i just think you have to commit with cash to these things rather than words to make them a success.

 

I think you are missing the point here. After Lockdown Showmasters should not of expected ticket sales to be high with just one guest announcement. The fact is plenty of of people would of booked but, rightly so they didnt as we were waiting for a couple more announcement....which never came. This is why this event failed. As I have already said, for some barmy reason Showmasters dont see it this way and I think they actually thought that they would sell loads of tickets with just the one announcement they had. If I am right, this is concerning, as thought processes like that are just never going to work.

 

That said, I think Showmasters have admitted their mistakes here, however I fear they are making another mistake by not running another Lost Con next year, cos if they did it right, it would be a success, no question. Only they can make their minds up about this, but I would eat my hat if it failed like the last 2 if they had a change of approch.

[buffy2k]

Actually some cons sell very well with 1 guest announcement - look at Hallowhedon, at one stage there was no guest but tickets were still selling not based on a particular guests but as the con was running for those shows.

 

See this is the problem if everyone waits for more guests as an organiser i'd be worried about committing more money when nobody was buying a ticket as initial sales are an indication of how its going to go. If those people from lockdown bought a ticket based on the fact the con was happening at all then maybe this would have worked out - i cant say of course but you cant expect an organiser to shell out on say 4 main guests (as seen wanted here)before they book when the sales were so low cons just dont work like that.

 

As for another one would you commit your personal money based on the fact 2 have failed as people were not buying tickets?

Edited June 25, 2009 by buffy2k

[DavidB]

I just think your approach is completely unrealistic Duke.

 

Any organiser knows that if you got main cast members (plural, 4 in your example) right off the bat, then you're likely to sell a lot of tickets.

 

You seem to be doubting that Showmasters/Massive Events don't even consider that. Of course they do. However, it's whether something like that is a viable approach to organising a convention or not.

 

It's easy enough to sit there when it's not your money and say "yes, this should be done!" but I know I personally wouldn't want to spend out on 4 main cast members, not knowing how much it costs, or knowing how much I'd actually get back etc.

 

Your suggested approach just isn't viable, nor would it be sensible at the moment, especially not with this particular convention.

 

Of course, then no one is aware of who was actually WILLING to come to the convention guest-wise, and that puts a whole different spin on things. I know of guests in the past that just kept asking for more and more money, eventually pricing themselves completely out of it. It just isn't as simple as some believe it is.

[Dukedwarfer]

I just think your approach is completely unrealistic Duke.

 

Any organiser knows that if you got main cast members (plural, 4 in your example) right off the bat, then you're likely to sell a lot of tickets.

 

You seem to be doubting that Showmasters/Massive Events don't even consider that. Of course they do. However, it's whether something like that is a viable approach to organising a convention or not.

 

It's easy enough to sit there when it's not your money and say "yes, this should be done!" but I know I personally wouldn't want to spend out on 4 main cast members, not knowing how much it costs, or knowing how much I'd actually get back etc.

 

Your suggested approach just isn't viable, nor would it be sensible at the moment, especially not with this particular convention.

 

Of course, then no one is aware of who was actually WILLING to come to the convention guest-wise, and that puts a whole different spin on things. I know of guests in the past that just kept asking for more and more money, eventually pricing themselves completely out of it. It just isn't as simple as some believe it is.

 

I would so love to hear what Alan Suger had to say about all this!!!!

 

I know what you mean, and really do understand where you are coming from, its just that I have seen businesses be successful and I have seen businesses fail time and time again and the fundamental reasons for faliure always stay the same.

 

I am never going to get everyone to agree with what I am saying. But lets just say that when Lockdown was announced in September 2007 with Henry IC as the first guest, they sold the majority of the overall ticket sales in the first 20 days from when they went on sale. Then we all know what happened with the Lockdown Con. This time around people were very careful about purchasing their ticket and didnt purchase their tickets when Michael was announced as they wanted more to make sure Lockdown didn’t happen again.

 

This is the difference, and from what I can tell Showmasters have the same approach and strategy for all the weekend cons they do, and that just isnt going to work. They needed a different strategy and approach to

 

I stand by my commitment that, if Showmasters took a 'gamble' on this and organised it in PLENTY of time it would pay off big time. I think the amount of hits this topic has had speaks volumes - And not everyone who goes to these cons comes on the forums.

[Lostmaniac]

Why did henry ian cusick pull out off lockdown?

[Count Fooku]

Why did henry ian cusick pull out off lockdown?

 

Oh I love these, I don't know why did Ian Henry Cusack pull out of lockdown?

[Chris Quartly]

He didn't want to get it pregnant?

[Lizzy]

To get to the other side!

[sazzra]

Because one of his legs was both the same?

[MikeDonovan]

I would so love to hear what Alan Suger had to say about all this!!!!

 

I stand by my commitment that, if Showmasters took a 'gamble' on this and organised it in PLENTY of time it would pay off big time. I think the amount of hits this topic has had speaks volumes - And not everyone who goes to these cons comes on the forums.

 

If you think Alan Sugar is the epitome of a successful businessman you're kidding yourself.

 

Anyway, by 'gamble', I assume you mean "get all the guests, pay for them upfront, then advertise it when you've got 3 or 4 of them"? This is all well and good, but you're assuming that Showmasters are a business with bottomless pockets - to be fair to them they're not. CM and LFCC do well enough to fund a few failures, but they can't afford to take risks like that - especially in this climate.

 

I agree that 'Lost' was the headliner for this event, but even then it's a show that's dropping viewers in huge numbers. The trouble with JJ's shows is that they start off fantastically well, and then they just drop off hugely in quality, and meander around and go nowhere. I think people are losing their patience with it, and consequently I wouldn't have thought a con like this would be viable.

[Lambourne]

I agree that 'Lost' was the headliner for this event, but even then it's a show that's dropping viewers in huge numbers. The trouble with JJ's shows is that they start off fantastically well, and then they just drop off hugely in quality, and meander around and go nowhere. I think people are losing their patience with it, and consequently I wouldn't have thought a con like this would be viable.

 

I'm not just saying it because of how much I love Lost but I really don't believe that drop in quality is the reason for it's drop in viewers, if you had said it 2-3 Seasons ago I would have agreed that was the reason, as during this time period it lost over half it's viewers in this US. It has arguably just come out of it's best Season yet. The main reasons for it's audience loss in the US is, as you said, people understandably getting impatient for certain answers and it was up against the ratings juggernaut that is American Idol last year.

 

Also, whilst it's been on Sky 1 the ratings in the UK haven't dropped that much at all. Obviously Lost doesn't have the convention draw that Buffy does and Heroes once did.

[MikeDonovan]

I'm not just saying it because of how much I love Lost but I really don't believe that drop in quality is the reason for it's drop in viewers, if you had said it 2-3 Seasons ago I would have agreed that was the reason, as during this time period it lost over half it's viewers in this US. It has arguably just come out of it's best Season yet.

 

But this is the point - once people turn off, it's VERY rare for them to turn back on. And that's the legacy of all of JJ's shows - a couple of seasons of excellence, followed by meandering dross causing people to turn off. It doesn't matter what you do - once you've lost your audience, it's all over.

[TommyT]

Lets say you sell 100 Gold Tickets at £195

Thats £19,500

And 100 Silver at £125

Thats £15,625

And 100 Std tixs at £95

Thats £9,500

 

That would be £44,625 revenue. Now I know the fees involved for bringing the stars to cos and out of respect I am not going to post that information on here, but if Showmasters are reading this - You know that its well within that figure for at least 4 main characters and to still have plenty left over to cover the other costs.

4 club class returns from LAX to LHR will set you back about £8.5k. Add on transferring them to/from the airport, putting them up in hotels and feeding them, and you're somewhere considerably south of £35k left. You still have to cover all their fees and and all the other costs out of that. I think your numbers are way off. And if any of your guests merits/demands first class air travel, you're looking at £6.5-8k each. Heck, most of your money could be gone just getting them here...

[Lizzy]

I'd like to see Duke attempting it if he's so confident. Oh! Wait! He doesn't have "time"... oh, what a shame. It's be such a sucess and he'd make so much money, but, nope.

 

And btw... SugAr!! Not Suger! Seriously, not a difficult name- you seem to think so highly of him, you could at least learn his name correctly. And I think he could respect that this is a TOTALLY different business niche, and a totally different way to run it. My dad is a "regular" businessman with his own company, and I won't begin to say how wrong it would be for him to try and organise his own show, no matter how good his business skills are!

Edited June 25, 2009 by Lizzy