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What did everyone think?

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DavidB    1,955

You've not really given a 'different side to the story' beyond you thinking a business is terrible for wanting to make a profit.

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Clapper    0

Totally agree, leave it up to the people who have been doing it for years. Bedford is pants, terrible to get to. Been there before it hasn't changed. Segregating by means of profit for the organisation isn't very nice for the humble student fan. One price for all. You pay more and you get a better experience? That shouldn't be the case, everyone should have the same chance as the rest.

 

There must have been a profit, otherwise an event announcement so soon wouldn't have happened. Make better use of the money next time, or donate it to charity and save yourself the bother.

 

So you're saying leave it to the people whose organisation is rubbish (Duke said ME were 'a million times better' and you agreed)? Hmm.. no thanks. You do realise that Showmasters/Massive Events HAVE been running events for years? In fact, if I remember correctly, they've been around for longer than the Official Red Dwarf Fan Club! Charging more for different levels of ticket is pretty much industry stanard these days. Yes, it means that 'humble student fans' don't get as much included as less 'humble student fans', but it means that more money can be spent on guests (and organisation).

 

Read his post again. I've been on here long time. And if it makes any difference been to at least 10 Showmaster events, but Massive events is a sister company dealing in unofficial events along side official fan run events to make a profit. And indirectly affecting the lively hood of such fan run events in the future. Yeah Dr. Who, Star Trek and so on has a massive fan base, it can take multiple events without have any detriment to the other. But can Red Dwarf?

 

Just because I don't have a million posts achieved by posting silly waving smiles, my opinion isn't worthy?

 

My only point is that they have run company autograph events, queue and sign. This event is different, otherwise why have a DJ? It's mimicking something already done. if your going to do it, do it differently.

 

I'm sure the organisers want to hear congratulation posts, who wouldn't? But I'm sure they also want to hear constructive comments, wrong or right.

 

 

You've not really given a 'different side to the story' beyond you thinking a business is terrible for wanting to make a profit.

 

 

See above. There is nothing wrong with a business, or making a profit. I wouldn't be in a job otherwise, that is not my overall perspective.

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chris_mk    0

Read his post again. I've been on here long time. And if it makes any difference been to at least 10 Showmaster events, but Massive events is a sister company dealing in unofficial events along side official fan run events to make a profit. And indirectly affecting the lively hood of such fan run events in the future. Yeah Dr. Who, Star Trek and so on has a massive fan base, it can take multiple events without have any detriment to the other. But can Red Dwarf?

 

Just because I don't have a million posts achieved by posting silly waving smiles, my opinion isn't worthy?

 

My only point is that they have run company autograph events, queue and sign. This event is different, otherwise why have a DJ? It's mimicking something already done. if your going to do it, do it differently.

 

I'm sure the organisers want to hear congratulation posts, who wouldn't? But I'm sure they also want to hear constructive comments, wrong or right.

 

I've read his post, you weren't clear on which parts you 'Totally agreed' with, so I made an assumption that you agreed with all of it, including the part where he suggested the organisation was poor in comparrison to ME's. I'm a Red Dwarf fan, but I want to go to a well run event. I've been to enough badly run events in my life to know that I don't find them fun.

 

I don't see the relevance of ME being a sister event, it's just a different brand name, it's pretty much run by the same people, who have 20+ years of experience in running events. Yes, they've been running full weekend conventions for a shorter while, but they've brought new ideas to the scene and brought new people to the experience through better advertising and customer care. They ARE doing it differently (different levels of tickets, guest encounters, wine receptions, props, display sets), but somethings tend to be common to ALL weekend events (like a DJ!)

 

I'm sure you don't mean 'lively hood', as that term implies someone makes a living off it, when I gather no one runs the other events on a full time, employed basis? I really don't care if something is 'Official' or not, makes no difference to me. As a punter, I'm going to go to events run by people I trust, where I know I'm going to meet great guests, get value for money on my ticket and have a great time.

 

Show me where I said your opinion wasn't worthy? I'm debating this stuff with you, which would imply that I don't feel that way?

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TommyT    79

Segregating by means of profit for the organisation isn't very nice for the humble student fan. One price for all. You pay more and you get a better experience? That shouldn't be the case, everyone should have the same chance as the rest.

A campaign which you're also no doubt waging at theatres, sports stadia, concert venues, train companies, airlines, schools etc. Sorry, the egalitarian utopia model is also flawed and arguably less efficient. Which is why so many businesses don't use it.

There must have been a profit, otherwise an event announcement so soon wouldn't have happened.

I presume that's based purely on your very linear thinking rather than any proof or statement to corroborate it? Ever heard of a loss leader, or somebody doing something because they want to despite it costing them money?

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At the moment I'm thinking that there are a few trouble makers on here trying to pick at little things that either don't matter or I find untrue.

I'm not normally one that comes on to say these sort of things but I'm just find it hard to agree with them.

 

Massiveevents is a business yes they want to make a profit but many of they events have in fact lost them money.

 

They do these things because they are fans of the programmes and films etc they do put a lot of work into it.

 

I've been to events by other people cons and signing events I've always found showmasters/massiveevents do the best ones.

 

Con events don't have to be all the same and in fact this con was one of the cheapest for what you got. I went for gold because I trusted them and was not disappointed I had a wonderful time.

 

The whole dj thing I disagree with I don't know how many times you went in the party room and for how long but from what you say it doesn't seem for long.

 

They played what is called the con songs stuff like abba cheesy stuff and also yes some rocky stuff I don't know what you count as rock I don't know what you expected them to play or for how long but they did play a mix of genres.

Everyone was dancing to the cheesy songs.

Edited by hobbitfanatic

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Grazer    2

No one is saying your opinion isn't worthy Clapper, it's just that we don't agree with it. We have a right to express our opinion as much as you do.

 

As for profit comment, I think Showmasters posted about a previous event something along the lines of "If we ever make a profit at one of these events, it will be cause for massive celebration"

 

Better Than Life was my first weekend con with Massive Events/Showmasters and whilst I didn't get to see overly much due to working it, it seemed to be similar with similar weekend cons run by other companies but the Guest Encounters were a nice touch and people seemed to enjoy the more informal setting of having a coffee with the guest.

 

Parties are there to allow people to relax & mingle if people choose to go. Not everything has to be ground breaking

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Davey    1

Hey everyone,

 

just wanted to reply to some of the comments about the music. I have DJ'd many cons and other parties, all varying in types of people.

 

With it being such a small convention its very hard to get people up on the dance floor for whatever reason I do not know! Its just like that. Even with a small crowd you have a large diversity in tastes of music and what people would get up and dance too. I have DJ'd much larger cons and had pretty much everyone on the floor to the same sort of music I was playing over the weekend. When there is a lot of people dancing it creates an awesome atmosphere and people dance to pretty much anything.

 

As I saw it there were about 3 different crowds of dancers. You had the people who would dance to cheesy songs, like abba, spice girls etc etc, the con song dancers who would dance to Macerena, Dr Who, Star Trekkin, and then you had the odd tastes, like the rock, metal, house weird stuff etc.

 

Pretty much everyone who requested songs got their song played and more of that genre, to see if it got people up. You were a tough crowd to please and requests do help a lot! I know there were attendees who came in the room, didn't really like the song being played, walked out and went to the bar. If you don't ask you don't get!

 

Don't get me wrong, I did play some songs which were probably the wrong songs for you guys, which I do apologise for, I did want you all to have a good time! But most people got up and danced who were in the party room.

 

Anyway thats enough of me rambling, I don't DJ the cons very often anymore, as I do other things at the cons, like organising the parties, and getting them decorated. I hope you all enjoyed the pillow bash & the Saloon Shootout they seemed to be well used! ^_^

 

Just remember next time, please ask for songs, DJ's are there to play for you so please ask! They are not always good at mind reading (too much loud noise)! :D

 

Davey

 

PS Jason wanted the Rasputin song that cleared the dance floor on saturday! I kept getting bugged for it! Yes I am putting the blame on him for that one! :D:poki:

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Dukedwarfer    0

Hey everyone,

 

just wanted to reply to some of the comments about the music. I have DJ'd many cons and other parties, all varying in types of people.

 

With it being such a small convention its very hard to get people up on the dance floor for whatever reason I do not know! Its just like that. Even with a small crowd you have a large diversity in tastes of music and what people would get up and dance too. I have DJ'd much larger cons and had pretty much everyone on the floor to the same sort of music I was playing over the weekend. When there is a lot of people dancing it creates an awesome atmosphere and people dance to pretty much anything.

 

As I saw it there were about 3 different crowds of dancers. You had the people who would dance to cheesy songs, like abba, spice girls etc etc, the con song dancers who would dance to Macerena, Dr Who, Star Trekkin, and then you had the odd tastes, like the rock, metal, house weird stuff etc.

 

Pretty much everyone who requested songs got their song played and more of that genre, to see if it got people up. You were a tough crowd to please and requests do help a lot! I know there were attendees who came in the room, didn't really like the song being played, walked out and went to the bar. If you don't ask you don't get!

 

Don't get me wrong, I did play some songs which were probably the wrong songs for you guys, which I do apologise for, I did want you all to have a good time! But most people got up and danced who were in the party room.

 

Anyway thats enough of me rambling, I don't DJ the cons very often anymore, as I do other things at the cons, like organising the parties, and getting them decorated. I hope you all enjoyed the pillow bash & the Saloon Shootout they seemed to be well used! ^_^

 

Just remember next time, please ask for songs, DJ's are there to play for you so please ask! They are not always good at mind reading (too much loud noise)! :D

 

Davey

 

PS Jason wanted the Rasputin song that cleared the dance floor on saturday! I kept getting bugged for it! Yes I am putting the blame on him for that one! :D:poki:

 

To be fair, I asked for 7 songs - 4 of which I could see that you had and you played none of them, and I was there all night.

 

Your comment: 'With it being such a small convention its very hard to get people up on the dance floor for whatever reason I do not know! Its just like that.'

 

I disagree. What I would of done is:

 

To Start: Tap of the feet type tunes (such as Kylie, DB etc...) To be fair you did do this,

Then some classics from the 80s, then 70s then 60s, then some cheese (Macarenna etc) then some Old School, into some Dance and the latest tracks cutting up the dance floor, Rock, into some major classics to round off the night, like Bille Jean, Livin on a Prayer etc, maybe finish with the closing theme tune of Red Dwarf.

 

NOT: Warm up tunes, Rock, cheese, Rock, a couple of 80s, Rock, some more Rock, 1 60s track, Rock, Macarenna, Cha Cha Slide, Rock, Rock, some more Rock, 1 Old School Track, Rock, Rock and little bit more Rock, then that DIRE Rasputin song. If Jason had requested it, I would of made a judgement call and decided that it would KILL the night for the people that were actually PAYING to be there, and simply not play it. There are no excuses for playing that track.

 

In my honest opinion, it wasnt a tough crowd. I have seen tough crowds, and the Red Dwarf crew fans were far from it. I think you just ballsed it up.

 

It is most frustrating that you say that your not a mind reader and that we should request tunes. As I have already said on this forum, I saw one guy write down some tunes on a bit of paper that we could actually see that you had, and without question any of them would of filled the floor, but you didnt play any of them.

 

It was such a shame, as Showmasters had the organisation of this con to a tee, but the atmosphere and level of entertainment has been so high on the Sat night at the official RD cons in the 8 years I have been going to them and the very poor musical entertainment at this one made it not quite on the same overall level.

 

I dont want to come across as harsh, but me and my mates were just gutted as the Sat nigth for us is one of the highlights.

Edited by Duke

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chris_mk    0

 

To be fair, I asked for 7 songs - 4 of which I could see that you had and you played none of them, and I was there all night.

 

 

I've politely asked a few times, what did you request? I'm curious to see what music you asked for that wasn't represented.

 

 

As I have already said on this forum, I saw one guy write down some tunes on a bit of paper that we could actually see that you had, and without question any of them would of filled the floor, but you didnt play any of them.

 

Like what, specifically?

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DavidB    1,955

The only problem I can see is that is what you would have done because that's what you like. It's very difficult to please a huge amount of people when the target audience isn't necessarily a select and specific group of people.

 

It's a lot easier at something like a Twilight con when you know what your general audience is. But something like RD, does that really appeal to a specific audience? I'm not quite sure. I certainly saw a broad range of people attending.

 

I've been to some cons where I loved the music, and some where I hated it. It's just what happens really, and I can only imagine how difficult it is trying to please everyone, as some that I've loved have been hated by others!

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Clapper    0

Segregating by means of profit for the organisation isn't very nice for the humble student fan. One price for all. You pay more and you get a better experience? That shouldn't be the case, everyone should have the same chance as the rest.

A campaign which you're also no doubt waging at theatres, sports stadia, concert venues, train companies, airlines, schools etc. Sorry, the egalitarian utopia model is also flawed and arguably less efficient. Which is why so many businesses don't use it.

There must have been a profit, otherwise an event announcement so soon wouldn't have happened.

I presume that's based purely on your very linear thinking rather than any proof or statement to corroborate it? Ever heard of a loss leader, or somebody doing something because they want to despite it costing them money?

 

It's ok if no one agrees with me, I'm not here to prove anything, nor do I want to be proved right.

 

My discussion is that a fan based event which has been run for 15 years, a lot of hard work unpaid, but has gathered the respect of the fans and Grant/ Naylor productions who help but don't subsidise conventions, who act entirely for the fans of the show, now have this jeopardised by a company run event looking to make money.

 

Now if both parties were company based, in a logical business world the competition would be expected, but not in this case. This is my entire point nothing else. But it seems I have to spell it out for anyone to understand!

 

If you feel that in this case this is fair and just, then my words are lost on to a totalitarian view.

 

And going back to my previous overlooked comment. Is the fan base big enough to cope with such competition? It seems that you are quite happy for any event to take place, at the loss of an official event.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, or that I'm not to be outspoken on this forum, but I'm not a sheep that will follow just for the sake of the collective.

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chris_mk    0

 

And going back to my previous overlooked comment. Is the fan base big enough to cope with such competition? It seems that you are quite happy for any event to take place, at the loss of an official event.

 

 

Yes, I would have said that a fanbase could cope with two events per year, instead of one. Especially as the events seem to attract different groups of people. In fact, it could thrive on it as people from each event learn about the other. I for one, had no idea that any other RD events were being run. The only way that the level of competition might affect the other event, is if the events were being run on the same weekend, or if SM/ME decided to run 3 or 4 RD events a year. I don't even know how many attendees were there who had ever been to an official event?

 

I don't know how many attendees the 'Official' event used to attract, although I had subsequently heard that it hadn't run every year, due to low attendances. If people run a good event, to an established fanbase, then there is no reason why it will cease. Only things that will end it are issues such as poor communication/advertising, poor organisation and lack of guests.

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Grazer    2

It's ok if no one agrees with me, I'm not here to prove anything, nor do I want to be proved right.

 

My discussion is that a fan based event which has been run for 15 years, a lot of hard work unpaid, but has gathered the respect of the fans and Grant/ Naylor productions who help but don't subsidise conventions, who act entirely for the fans of the show, now have this jeopardised by a company run event looking to make money.

 

Now if both parties were company based, in a logical business world the competition would be expected, but not in this case. This is my entire point nothing else. But it seems I have to spell it out for anyone to understand!

 

If you feel that in this case this is fair and just, then my words are lost on to a totalitarian view.

 

And going back to my previous overlooked comment. Is the fan base big enough to cope with such competition? It seems that you are quite happy for any event to take place, at the loss of an official event.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, or that I'm not to be outspoken on this forum, but I'm not a sheep that will follow just for the sake of the collective.

The guests charge to be at the events, you going to level the same critisism against them aswell? As I said, ME and SM don't make money out of this and if money is all they wanted, there are far easier ways to make it.

 

I am more than happy for a number of "companies" to run similar events. Each one will have different takes on set up, guests they can get etc. This means there is more chance of fans being able to meet the stars because if they can't make one date for one con, maybe they can make the other.

 

SM/ME just want to put on the best event possible, no different to the official one. I don't really care who runs the event really. Yes I attend SM/ME events more often now but that's because I have enjoyed myself at their events and have been impressed with how they do most things.

 

If the official event feels threatened by SM/ME then maybe they should take a look at why and do something about it. Just a thought

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Hey everyone,

 

just wanted to reply to some of the comments about the music. I have DJ'd many cons and other parties, all varying in types of people.

 

With it being such a small convention its very hard to get people up on the dance floor for whatever reason I do not know! Its just like that. Even with a small crowd you have a large diversity in tastes of music and what people would get up and dance too. I have DJ'd much larger cons and had pretty much everyone on the floor to the same sort of music I was playing over the weekend. When there is a lot of people dancing it creates an awesome atmosphere and people dance to pretty much anything.

 

As I saw it there were about 3 different crowds of dancers. You had the people who would dance to cheesy songs, like abba, spice girls etc etc, the con song dancers who would dance to Macerena, Dr Who, Star Trekkin, and then you had the odd tastes, like the rock, metal, house weird stuff etc.

 

Pretty much everyone who requested songs got their song played and more of that genre, to see if it got people up. You were a tough crowd to please and requests do help a lot! I know there were attendees who came in the room, didn't really like the song being played, walked out and went to the bar. If you don't ask you don't get!

 

Don't get me wrong, I did play some songs which were probably the wrong songs for you guys, which I do apologise for, I did want you all to have a good time! But most people got up and danced who were in the party room.

 

Anyway thats enough of me rambling, I don't DJ the cons very often anymore, as I do other things at the cons, like organising the parties, and getting them decorated. I hope you all enjoyed the pillow bash & the Saloon Shootout they seemed to be well used! :thumbup:

 

Just remember next time, please ask for songs, DJ's are there to play for you so please ask! They are not always good at mind reading (too much loud noise)! :whistling:

 

Davey

 

PS Jason wanted the Rasputin song that cleared the dance floor on saturday! I kept getting bugged for it! Yes I am putting the blame on him for that one! :poki: :poki:

 

Hi all. I would like to speak in support of our DJ. Everyone has different tastes and I must admit I turned my nose up at what I call "wedding music" (Cheese, Macarena, Greese Lightening, Come on Ilene etc....) and favour the more "Odd taste" as you put it of rock, punk, indie. And felt a good mix was played and was pleased that my request was also played on the Sat night.

 

I have done DJing myself and found that pleasing a room of fans of supposedly the same genre is difficult enough (I was a DJ at a rock club) so I can appreciate that DJing to a room of very different people with very different tastes (with fantastic taste in TV progs in common of course) must have been a challenge!

 

Well done guys :dance:

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Grazer    2

Is that the one that goes "Ra Ra Rasputin, Russias greatest love machine"??

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chris_mk    0

Is that the one that goes "Ra Ra Rasputin, Russias greatest love machine"??

 

Aye, Boney M at their 'finest' :whistling:

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Too Tall    880

Clapper,

 

And that's fine that you have that view. But you have to understand that having the view of "there shouldn't be any other RD event other than the fan club one because it's not fair!" is going to make any other comments you make come across as tainted and biased.

 

You want to be fair? The only way to be fair is to also be completely unbiased!

 

By your reckoning there's not a big enough fan base to support 2 events and therefore only the official one should survive. Why? Because it came first? Because it's run by fans?

 

I hope that you're wrong and that there is enough space for both. But if there is only space for one, is the club one being the only one the best thing for the attendees (the fans)!

 

If you believe the club event is better than the ME event then people will choose to go to it instead. If it splits the fans as a business ME will stop running theirs because of lack of ticket sales. And you'll get what you want.

 

BUT if the ME event is successful and seen as better by the fans then surely it's better for the FANS that the better event is the one that continues. You say the club is all about the fans, if that's true surely them having the best event FOR THEM is what's important, not who runs it.

 

As Jason has said, he'd be more than happy to run it WITH the club, to have their involvement. This doesn't need to be a them and us situation. Having the financial backing and experience of a company like ME and the drive of the Club could come together to create an amazing event!

Edited by Too Tall

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Scruffy    1

Oh Too Tall havent you realised Clapper just aint going to back ME events so not worth the bother.

It would be interesting to find out thier name on the official site forum to read what he has posted there.

:whistling:

Edited by scruffy

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Lizzy    25

And going back to my previous overlooked comment.

 

Fair enough, but I will have to go back to SM's overlooked comment. BTL was set up BEFORE the fan club announced theirs. Before that, the fan club hadn't planned to ever do one again. They obv realised interest was still there when BTL was booking quickly. SM was stealing nothing- in fact, it could be said that the fac club is stealing people who would have gone to BTL!

 

 

As Jason has said, he'd be more than happy to run it WITH the club, to have their involvement. This doesn't need to be a them and us situation. Having the financial backing and experience of a company like ME and the drive of the Club could come together to create an amazing event!

 

Exactly!! How good would that be? But, the Fan Club are looking out for themselves, not the fans.

 

 

Oh Too Tall havent you realised Clapper just aint going to back ME events so not worth the bother.

It would be interesting to find out thier name on the official site forum to read what he has posted there.

:D

 

Good idea!! Clapper's name needs to have a different first letter...

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Dukedwarfer    0

The only problem I can see is that is what you would have done because that's what you like. It's very difficult to please a huge amount of people when the target audience isn't necessarily a select and specific group of people.

 

Errrrrrr..... No, thats the point.....!!! Its not about what I want, its about creating a mixture of tunes that everyone likes. If it was about what I wanted I would say play Trance all night!! ^_^

 

The bottom line is that most people thought the music on Saturday night was terrible, with the 'odd' person thinking it was ok.

 

The fact that the guy behind the bar was commenting to his fellow workers that the DJ was the worst he had heard in all his time working there (several years) is enough for me to back up my comment.

 

Lets just say that I have some experiance in the music world...Ok I admit it, I am a Professional in the industry - And I am heavily experianced in the music entertainment sector - And I can assure you that as standard, the DJ on Sat night was well below par. If I had hired that DJ for that party, I would of demanded my money back.

 

That is all I will say on the subject. SM - 10/10 for the organisation of the whole weekend. 0/10 for the DJ on the Sat night.

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Clapper    0

Clapper,

 

And that's fine that you have that view. But you have to understand that having the view of "there shouldn't be any other RD event other than the fan club one because it's not fair!" is going to make any other comments you make come across as tainted and biased.

 

You want to be fair? The only way to be fair is to also be completely unbiased!

 

By your reckoning there's not a big enough fan base to support 2 events and therefore only the official one should survive. Why? Because it came first? Because it's run by fans?

 

I hope that you're wrong and that there is enough space for both. But if there is only space for one, is the club one being the only one the best thing for the attendees (the fans)!

 

If you believe the club event is better than the ME event then people will choose to go to it instead. If it splits the fans as a business ME will stop running theirs because of lack of ticket sales. And you'll get what you want.

 

BUT if the ME event is successful and seen as better by the fans then surely it's better for the FANS that the better event is the one that continues. You say the club is all about the fans, if that's true surely them having the best event FOR THEM is what's important, not who runs it.

 

As Jason has said, he'd be more than happy to run it WITH the club, to have their involvement. This doesn't need to be a them and us situation. Having the financial backing and experience of a company like ME and the drive of the Club could come together to create an amazing event!

 

 

I thought I was being unbiased? I have already said I have been to many SM events, ok maybe I should have showered you with gifts? I have put my point forward now, I won't continue further with the discussion.

 

It is the fans choice I respect that, I just want to point out it's not all one sided. I have no idea if a double event would work. Were the club contacted in any way before this event as a matter of fact? It seems a bit late to offer the olive branch now.

 

Lizzy, surely you can reply without resorting to insults.

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Milly123    0

The child and his dad had been sat next to us...I said "Maybe I should explain that he's a pro-wrestler!" to which dad said "it's ok he's got a 17 year old brother, he's used to it"...All in the spirit of good clean fun ^_^

 

 

The pillow fight was going nowhere, your other half and Ethan (I think that was the boys name?) saved it! Legends, the pair of them! :wub:

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Milly123    0

I loved the weekend, first conference ever and ME did a fantastic job. The only thing I think I would have changed is to swap the partes so that Saturday was Gun Men of the Apocolypse. But it's no big deal really. Had loads of fun, loved the guests, the attendees and the organisers (although the lady doing the photoshoot on Saturday that kept shouting at us to face front and bunch up was hilarious!).

And want to echo the opinion that Danny saved the day on Saturday with his 2 hour improv!

 

I'm also going to the 'other' con in October because I'm a huge RD fan and just want to! I think Dave (the channel) proved that the fan base is large enough to cover two cons a year!

 

Love to all (especially Ben who said I was dead polite!)

 

x

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Lizzy    25

Lizzy, surely you can reply without resorting to insults.

 

 

Unfortunately not :rolleyes:

 

^^ Joke. However, I was of course referring to the word "flapper" as you seem to be making a flap about a few minor issues on here, and did before the con even happened without giving it a chance. Why, what word did you think I was insinuating?

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