Discussion about the new venue

[TerraHawk]

Looks good to me:

 

free entry

 

free buses to and from center MK, train station and coach station

 

 

I can see why it had to be free in a shopping centre - impossible to inforce a paid entry system, but the real question I have is if this one can be in it's own hall still have free entry, why can't the other events???

[Synn]

 

But you have to remember that the shops are an accidental bonus - they are not part of the con and so are not part of the "con-deal". We have no right to expect to have them as they are seperate to the SM show. Yes, they might be nice to have but they are a bonus and not part of the show.

 

But surely having it in a shopping centre (even though it's on the small side) is good for both the guests AND dealers.

 

If it's moved away from where the general public is, then the only people that turn up will be the people specifically going, which in turn could cost dealers money and in turn may result in fewer dealers turning up.

 

Personally, I went to CM14 (which was my first con ever) to meet some friends, troop in costume, try and help raise some money for charity and look and shop around the dealers tables. There were no guests there that I was bothered about seeing, I was there mainly for the dealers and to help with charity. This will suffer as there will be fewer people around.

[DavidB]

But if they stay in the shopping centre, they have a very limited amount of space in Middleton Hall. This results in two main problems:

 

1) The wings down the side of John Lewis can't be used for guests. Therefore they have to fit in dealers AND guests into Middleton Hall. This means that the more guests they have, the less dealers they can have.

 

2) Looking at it the opposite way - have a normal amount of dealers and less guests, then less people will turn up because the lineup won't be too good, and then the dealers won't sell much anyway.

 

The new venue means plenty of space for high-quality guests, and for numerous dealers as well. Dealers want guests that'll bring people in through the doors.

[rory13]

Guys don't worry its still free entry and bringing it to the Dons stadium has a big upside, its going to be REALLY REALLY BIG!

So expect bigger guests, more guests, free talks, more stalls and hardly no crowds!

[nicky]

Since C4 I've never ever needed the shops to go to to pass the time while waiting for my VT number to come up. Same for LFCC (which I always attend alone) and very rarely sit down unless its to watch trailers.

 

Point being, I've never been one of those people that were bored waiting. There's plenty people to talk to and plenty to look at plus great talks are going on all day (at LFCC).

[TommyT]

How much money will some of the shops loose out on on a Collectormania weekend, now the event is finally moving?

Some shops will "win", some shops will "lose"; thats up for them to take up with the centre management. Realistically it won't change any minds, unless SM decide to have one big show per year at the new venue and a s smaller show each year in the shopping centre. Which would be a dilution of their effort, and probably the worst of both worlds.

 

how will the photoshoot photos be developed? will we have to wait longer or will there be a quick turn around??

If they use somewhere in the centre, that's only 3.5 miles away; say five minutes on a bike. Realistically, it shouldn't make any difference; maybe ten minutes tops, perhaps a quarter of an hour.

 

The only thing my friends and I can see being a problem, is the food/drink prices at the stadium

Food and drink at the stadium is crap/expensive.... but, the othe side of the car park is a giant Asda and beyond that an Ikea, both of which do food at reasonable prices :)

In which case it's like Earl's Court; a reasonable choice pretty much outside the door

 

I can see why it had to be free in a shopping centre - impossible to inforce a paid entry system, but the real question I have is if this one can be in it's own hall still have free entry, why can't the other events???

Each event has its own economics. Earl's Court? as an established venue that any number of events would be happy to use, they're not going to waive any hire costs. MK Dons stadium, as somewhere new and trying to make a name for itself, might be prepared to offer a good deal when it considers the positive publicity, long term hire possibilities, money ade from food outlets, etc. My local pub would be happy to hire out their lounge bar of a Saturday, because they don't get that much trade, and they reckon they'll get it back from the drink sold and the fact that a lot of people would be new to them (via the event) and so might go there again at another point. Wembley Stadium will tell you that they can hire their arena out every week without even trying, so why would they give you a discount? (they won't)

 

 

But surely having it in a shopping centre (even though it's on the small side) is good for both the guests AND dealers.

If it's moved away from where the general public is, then the only people that turn up will be the people specifically going, which in turn could cost dealers money and in turn may result in fewer dealers turning up.

Personally, I went to CM14 (which was my first con ever) to meet some friends, troop in costume, try and help raise some money for charity and look and shop around the dealers tables. There were no guests there that I was bothered about seeing, I was there mainly for the dealers and to help with charity. This will suffer as there will be fewer people around.

It cuts two ways. The dealers may see more people in the shopping centre, but more of them will be casual browsers and less likely to buy; at the stadium for a convention, they may see less people, but the people that are there may be more likely to buy.

Swings.

Roundabouts.

It's probably neutral, or fairly close to neutral.

[chris_mk]

It cuts two ways. The dealers may see more people in the shopping centre, but more of them will be casual browsers and less likely to buy; at the stadium for a convention, they may see less people, but the people that are there may be more likely to buy.

Swings.

Roundabouts.

It's probably neutral, or fairly close to neutral.

 

I agreed with your post to this last point. most of the casual, passing trade will just be browsers, but even if you sell one item for every 500 casual shoppers, it's one more than you would sell in a stadium. Having it in a stadium will not affect the likelihood of one of the event attendees buying something from you, unless it somehow draws MORE attendees.

[nicky]

But you have to remember that the shops are an accidental bonus - they are not part of the con and so are not part of the "con-deal". We have no right to expect to have them as they are seperate to the SM show. Yes, they might be nice to have but they are a bonus and not part of the show.

But surely having it in a shopping centre (even though it's on the small side) is good for both the guests AND dealers.

 

If it's moved away from where the general public is, then the only people that turn up will be the people specifically going, which in turn could cost dealers money and in turn may result in fewer dealers turning up.

Nobody's arguing that it being in the MK Centre isn't good for dealers and guests. We know it's good.

 

I was actually talking from a FAN point of view - it's better for FANS who are specifically going for the con and for the con-stuff and guests etc, NOT the shops - I can go to the shops anytime without having to wait twice a year for CM to be on. The shops are an added incidental bonus for the sake of convenience to fans and they are not con-related - they wouldnt even be there ordinarily. The main focus is the guests and con-tuff that's happening. LFCC this year proved that a con like that was a great success.

 

The amount of dealers turning up won't be any less than those that attend LFCC or G-Mex etc.

Edited October 1, 2008 by nicky

[CelticRob]

I thought I would miss the uniqueness of the event being in middleton hall and having the shops etc, but the more I think the more I am looking forward in the long term to the event being in the mk dons arena.

[Psychosis]

It cuts two ways. The dealers may see more people in the shopping centre, but more of them will be casual browsers and less likely to buy; at the stadium for a convention, they may see less people, but the people that are there may be more likely to buy.

Swings.

Roundabouts.

It's probably neutral, or fairly close to neutral.

 

I agreed with your post to this last point. most of the casual, passing trade will just be browsers, but even if you sell one item for every 500 casual shoppers, it's one more than you would sell in a stadium. Having it in a stadium will not affect the likelihood of one of the event attendees buying something from you, unless it somehow draws MORE attendees.

 

Not when the 499 non-buying casual shoppers are putting off dozens of dedicated shoppers who don't have the energy to fight their way in. I buy from the dealers everywhere except at MK because it's so crowded with people that I can't even get in.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Psychosis

[jael001]

I didnt even browse the stalls properly this time, it was too busy and I had my daughter with me, I couldn't face pushing my way through the crowds so I gave up and actually went home early.

[nicky]

Not when the 499 non-buying casual shoppers are putting off dozens of dedicated shoppers who don't have the energy to fight their way in. I buy from the dealers everywhere except at MK because it's so crowded with people that I can't even get in.

Yeah, I agree with that. Sometimes I dont bother looking at a stall for long cos there are too many bingo-winged mums pushing prams in the way.

[DavidB]

I very rarely buy stuff off the stalls in MK, mainly because I can't be bothered with the effort of barging through everyone to even walk there .. but then there's the getting to look at the stuff ON the stalls which is just as much of a hardship.

 

Give me a website anyday lol

[mattman81]

I've had the benefit of working and selling at a stall at MK, LFCC and G-Mex, and I can tell ya the stall at MK always made a lot more money then the other two venues. The reason being the volume and diversity of the attendees, the location and the free entry. Yes, the dealer area at MK is always busy, but that's because people actually bother and want to have a good look at stuff, unlike LFCC & G-Mex where the vast majority of attendees are only interested in autographs. From a dealer POV, those attendees are the actual waste of space, lol.

 

And it's all well and good saying this change will make the event "bigger and better", but that gets said time and time again and yet I see the shows getting worse.

Edited October 1, 2008 by mattman81

[nicky]

From a dealer POV, those attendees are the actual waste of space, lol.

But without us you wouldnt even be there, nor would there be a con. It would probably suit you better if you just had a stall at a town market instead. The guests and activities are the main event at cons, stalls are just in the background.

Edited October 1, 2008 by nicky

[DavidB]

And it's all well and good saying this change will make the event "bigger and better", but that gets said time and time again and yet I see the shows getting worse.

So would you keep it where it is, with less dealer space and a likely lower attendance level due to a lack of top guests?

[chris_mk]

I've had the benefit of working and selling at a stall at MK, LFCC and G-Mex, and I can tell ya the stall at MK always made a lot more money then the other two venues. The reason being the volume and diversity of the attendees, the location and the free entry. Yes, the dealer area at MK is always busy, but that's because people actually bother and want to have a good look at stuff, unlike LFCC & G-Mex where the vast majority of attendees are only interested in autographs. From a dealer POV, those attendees are the actual waste of space, lol.

 

And it's all well and good saying this change will make the event "bigger and better", but that gets said time and time again and yet I see the shows getting worse.

 

I concur, I've had stalls at Collectormania, LfaCC and Coventry and sales at MK are always hugely greater than those at the other two (I actually incurred a small loss at the last LFaCC, despite the incredible line up of guests and the high number of attendees.)

 

From a dealer POV, those attendees are the actual waste of space, lol.

But without us you wouldnt even be there, nor would there be a con. It would probably suit you better if you just had a stall at a town market instead. The guests and activities are the main event at cons, stalls are just in the background.

 

 

You see where he said 'LOL'.... just a hunch, but I think he was kidding....

 

And it's all well and good saying this change will make the event "bigger and better", but that gets said time and time again and yet I see the shows getting worse.

So would you keep it where it is, with less dealer space and a likely lower attendance level due to a lack of top guests?

 

That's an irrelevant question, it HAS to move for the reasons given. What I think Mattman is trying to do, is debate the point previously raised that the revenue dealers receive will not be affected. Both he and I think it will.

[nicky]

So would you keep it where it is, with less dealer space and a likely lower attendance level due to a lack of top guests?

 

That's an irrelevant question, it HAS to move for the reasons given. What I think Mattman is trying to do, is debate the point previously raised that the revenue dealers receive will not be affected. Both he and I think it will.

I think dealers will lose revenue too but that's irrelevant also, it HAS to move like you said. But then again the cons are there for the attendees to meet guests, not the dealers to make money - like I said, it's all about the guests and the fans meeting them and the stalls are in the background.

[DavidB]

It wasn't a particularly irrelevant question - it was more about if some people believe that Collectormania should continue in the way that C14 did i.e. if a Collectormania-lite in the Centre:MK would still work out better for dealers than a move to the Stadium.

 

I'm curious about the balance between the value of passing trade, and the actual attendance of the event due to the quality of the guest list.

[Too Tall]

So would you keep it where it is, with less dealer space and a likely lower attendance level due to a lack of top guests?

 

That's an irrelevant question, it HAS to move for the reasons given. What I think Mattman is trying to do, is debate the point previously raised that the revenue dealers receive will not be affected. Both he and I think it will.

I think dealers will lose revenue too but that's irrelevant also, it HAS to move like you said. But then again the cons are there for the attendees to meet guests, not the dealers to make money - like I said, it's all about the guests and the fans meeting them and the stalls are in the background.

That's not wholly true Nicky.

 

The dealers tables are a known income over the weekend. Without their hire costs helping to pay for venue hire etc and helping to guarantee a certain amount of income some events would just not be viable. So although for you the dealers are just a background thing, they are very much a part of what makes the events possible. In simple terms, for most of these big shows, No dealers would equal no show! Just as much as No guests would equal no show.

[jael001]

This is such a pointless arguement, no matter what people think, the fact is that the Centre dont want Collectormania there any longer and SM have had to find a new venue. Whether it'll work out or not in the long run we don't know, but it's not as if they've done it on purpose to mess people about.

[DavidB]

I didn't think anyone was arguing .. more speculation based on hypothetical situations. It's harmless really - we all know they're moving and that's that, but it's interesting to see the differing opinions.

[Too Tall]

If it was a big argument I'd agree with you. But most of the time it's just people voicing how they feel about the change and how they feel it will effect them and their enjoyment of the show as a whole.

 

You're right, no amount of valid complains or logical arguments is going to make it go back to the centre, but people like to vent about these things. And this is where they choose to do it.

[jael001]

ok bad choice of words, I should have said discussion rather than arguement, but it does seem that the same points are being gone over again and again.

[mattman81]

chris_mk is right, my comment about the autograph collectors being a waste of space was in jest. And it's also nice to see another dealer add further perspective on this. It's common I think that most dealers end up making a loss on most events, the MK shows were the one exception.

 

Also Nicky, who sponsors Showmaster events????

 

Until we get some official answers as to why the show is moving location, whether it be because Centre:MK are making changes/dislike the show being there or whether Showmasters want to expand the show, I can't really answer what the best course of action should be. Chances are we'll never know because I'm still waiting to here what happened with Empire Weekend.

 

And was C14 lackluster because of restrictions?? Or was it because Showmasters have a lot on their plate and couldn't quite have the time to really pump their full efforts into it?? I've said it before, I think Showmasters do too many shows per year and as a result, none of the shows excel and all are falling behind their previous efforts from a few years ago, when they did excellent work indeed. Just my opinion, shared by quite a few people I know, one of which counts for a lot.