What makes a 'big' guest

[MikeDonovan]

TV budgets over the past few years have skyrocketed I'd say. They must feel the medium is worthy of all that cash.

 

I definitely think it's seen more strongly now as an alternative to cinema.

 

In part this was a reaction to the extra revenue coming in from DVD Sales. Certainly production values are a lot higher than they were because of this - but it's got a long way to go before it rivals motion picture budgets.

[chris_mk]

I agree re the glamour side of it, definitely. Not sure what "bigness" is though!

I was talking about the production process and budget that goes in.

 

I haven't seen any data comparing what Hollywood spends on movies, verses the expendature on TV, but don't forget, most films are made for under $10m, which is less than the cost of a big TV show for a season.

[MikeDonovan]

I haven't seen any data comparing what Hollywood spends on movies, verses the expendature on TV, but don't forget, most films are made for under $10m, which is less than the cost of a big TV show for a season.

 

It's pretty hard to make a film for $10m these days. Terminator had a budget of $11m, and that was in 1984. Nowadays the average cost is more around the $50m mark - and most summer tentpoles pass $150m these days quite easily. Avatar is looking to weigh in past $300m - and you can bet the Hobbit will be around this mark.

 

Nowadays your average sci-fi esque TV show runs at about $2m per episode. Also don't forget that we are talking 2 hours versus 20 for a 24 episode season - which will cover 6 months for the production company.

[nicky]

most films are made for under $10m, which is less than the cost of a big TV show for a season.

Ah, you're being sneaky there! Try comparing a big film with a big TV show instead of a small film with a big TV show!

 

Those films under $10m you speak of aren't the big films with the big stars we're talking about here. Compare 2 hrs worth (or a feature-length episode) of a big TV show like SG-1 vs a big 2hr film like Spider-Man 3(forget it sucked)...which do you think will come out as the bigger production? Also which one will the general public be able to name the stars of and be able to quote lines and scenes from and which will make millions?

Edited April 29, 2008 by nicky

[Lizzy]

But outside of Star Trek he hasn't really distinguished himself. The character was successful - not necessarily the Shatner himself.

 

Hasn't he won AWARDS, like an emmey (i think- is that whats its called?) for Boston Legal- a massive show.

 

(not read most of the rest of the thread atm- just had to comment on that)

[nicky]

But outside of Star Trek he hasn't really distinguished himself. The character was successful - not necessarily the Shatner himself.

Hasn't he won AWARDS, like an emmey (i think- is that whats its called?) for Boston Legal- a massive show.

But who in the gen public knows that? Shatner will never be able to shake off Kirk - people will always see him as that first...and maybe that only.

[DavidB]

Another thing if we're going down the film/tv comparison route - personally I often feel more of a connection with the TV stars because you see a lot more of their work throughout the year, so I have more to talk to them about etc.

 

So sometimes a TV star is 'bigger' to me because I'll have watched them more.

[chris_mk]

most films are made for under $10m, which is less than the cost of a big TV show for a season.

Ah, you're being sneaky there! Try comparing a big film with a big TV show instead of a small film with a big TV show!

 

Those films under $10m you speak of aren't the big films with the big stars we're talking about here. Compare 2 hrs worth (or a feature-length episode) of a big TV show like SG-1 vs a big 2hr film like Spider-Man 3(forget it sucked)...which do you think will come out as the bigger production? Also which one will the general public be able to name the stars of and be able to quote lines and scenes from and which will make millions?

 

Was deliberate, rather than sneaky. My point is that the gap between the two medium is getting closer.

 

More people watch TV than watch films, so I would suggest that a member of the general public is MORE likely to recognise someone from TV, rather than from a specific film. Likewise, they're more likely to remember storylines and quotes from TV*, because it's an ongoing medium, where as when you've seen a film, that's it unless (and until) a sequal comes out.

 

 

*especially comedies like Little Britain.. hell, I quote it now and a again and I don't even watch it!

 

But outside of Star Trek he hasn't really distinguished himself. The character was successful - not necessarily the Shatner himself.

Hasn't he won AWARDS, like an emmey (i think- is that whats its called?) for Boston Legal- a massive show.

But who in the gen public knows that? Shatner will never be able to shake off Kirk - people will always see him as that first...and maybe that only.

 

 

and?!?

 

Kirk is an icon!! A positive (?!?) rolemodel!! Who wouldn't want to be assoicated with that role!

[Psychosis]

Bloody hell at chris_mk's sensitivity in this thread! Funny thing is - when I read it through it seemed like you were more or less agreeing with each other until you started trying to claw his body parts off one by one.

 

Honestly, I don't think you can define big guest. You can try though. I guess big is always going to be relative. Comparing John Hurt to, say, Will Smith or Johnny Depp, he's probably not so big. But in context, yes, huge (though not to me personally). I guess the definition of 'big' will always depend on where someone puts that cut-off bar.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Psychosis

[DavidB]

Honestly, I don't think you can define big guest. You can try though. I guess big is always going to be relative. Comparing John Hurt to, say, Will Smith or Johnny Depp, he's probably not so big. But in context, yes, huge (though not to me personally). I guess the definition of 'big' will always depend on where someone puts that cut-off bar.

 

Yup that's pretty much what I was getting at originally when I said "So yes, the definition of 'big' certainly is hard to exactly pin down, and I don't think we ever will." .. you can analyse it from every possible angle, but there's never going to be one clear definition for everyone

 

It's an interesting discussion, especially to see differing opinions from people who basically attend the same things etc, but it's one that could go on forever really.

[Lizzy]

Honestly, I don't think you can define big guest. You can try though. I guess big is always going to be relative. Comparing John Hurt to, say, Will Smith or Johnny Depp, he's probably not so big. But in context, yes, huge (though not to me personally). I guess the definition of 'big' will always depend on where someone puts that cut-off bar.

 

Yup that's pretty much what I was getting at originally when I said "So yes, the definition of 'big' certainly is hard to exactly pin down, and I don't think we ever will." .. you can analyse it from every possible angle, but there's never going to be one clear definition for everyone

 

It's an interesting discussion, especially to see differing opinions from people who basically attend the same things etc, but it's one that could go on forever really.

 

 

I think this thread has now gone full circle!

[snot182]

i think big guest is someone like Lisa O'Reilly or Ric Waller

 

They are MASSIVE

[frankslittlemachine]

Sooo..now your little squabbles are out of the way can we now assume that a 'big' guest is actually in the eyes of the attendee?

[nicky]

But who in the gen public knows that? Shatner will never be able to shake off Kirk - people will always see him as that first...and maybe that only.

and?!?

Kirk is an icon!! A positive (?!?) rolemodel!! Who wouldn't want to be assoicated with that role!

Dalton didn't wanna be tied to Bond, Weller didnt wanna be tied to Robocop. Pat Stewart doesnt wanna be tied to Picard even. I'm sure Shats doesnt wanna be known for only Kirk, no matter how cool he might be.

[nicky]

More people watch TV than watch films, so I would suggest that a member of the general public is MORE likely to recognise someone from TV, rather than from a specific film. Likewise, they're more likely to remember storylines and quotes from TV (like Little Britain), because it's an ongoing medium, where as when you've seen a film, that's it.

More people watch TV cos they don't have to leave the house and get off their @rse and venture into the night nor do they have to shell out cash!!! They just pick up the remote!! But yes, I do agree its getting more popular.

 

I'd say the general public would recognise movie stars more though cos they get more attention in $hlt like "In" Heat magazine, again it's cos of the glamour and INTERNATIONAL media exposure. A big TV star like RDA isn't gonna be as internationally recognisable as say Kurt Russell, I mean not every country in the world has SG-1 shown on TV does it?

 

It's easier to quote Little Britian than other TV shows cos it's funny but I disagree that TV scenes and quotes are more memorable than movie ones - look at what Arnie did with his lines or Tarantino or even Casablanca (1942) - people have been quoting that for over 65 yrs. Do TV magazines have a top 100 scenes or quotes like Empire magazine or even Channel 4 sometimes do? Everyone knows the opening scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981).

 

i think big guest is someone like Lisa O'Reilly or Ric Waller

 

They are MASSIVE

Sorry, someone beat you to it on that joke already in this thread!

 

Sooo..now your little squabbles are out of the way can we now assume that a 'big' guest is actually in the eyes of the attendee?

Who let the party-pooper in??? We're enjoying ourselevs here! Edited April 30, 2008 by nicky

[frankslittlemachine]

Sooo..now your little squabbles are out of the way can we now assume that a 'big' guest is actually in the eyes of the attendee?

Who let the party-pooper in??? We're enjoying ourselevs here!

 

So I guess thats a no then?!

[DavidB]

Either argue with someone or get out

[frankslittlemachine]

Either argue with someone or get out

 

Ok fine...here goes...DavidB i'm afraid that you are wrong but so is Chris_mk and nicky in fact, it happens that you are ALL wrong because I have the answer, yes thats right, yeah, um, but i'm just not gonna share it with you but just know that you are all wrong...and you all smell real bad...yeah!

 

...consider youselves argued with!

[nicky]

...consider youselves argued with!

Welcome to the war.

[chris_mk]

More people watch TV than watch films, so I would suggest that a member of the general public is MORE likely to recognise someone from TV, rather than from a specific film. Likewise, they're more likely to remember storylines and quotes from TV (like Little Britain), because it's an ongoing medium, where as when you've seen a film, that's it.

More people watch TV cos they don't have to leave the house and get off their @rse and venture into the night nor do they have to shell out cash!!! They just pick up the remote!! But yes, I do agree its getting more popular.

 

Alternativly, they don't want to shell out £20 (for a couple outside of London) to go sit in an uncomfortable seat, at the convenience of the cinema (time wise), where they ahve to sit through 20 minutes of adverts and put up with being surrouded by memeber of the ADD generation and the incontinent! I fear for the long term future of cinema, I think downloadable 'New media' will overtake it in 20-25 years.

 

I'd say the general public would recognise movie stars more though cos they get more attention in $hlt like "In" Heat magazine, again it's cos of the glamour and INTERNATIONAL media exposure. A big TV star like RDA isn't gonna be as internationally recognisable as say Kurt Russell, I mean not every country in the world has SG-1 shown on TV does it?

 

Whilst that's true of home grown stars who appear on shows that are only really shown in the home country (for example Eastenders), I would say that more people have seen RDA in Stargate than have seen Kurt Russell.

 

It's easier to quote Little Britian than other TV shows cos it's funny but I disagree that TV scenes and quotes are more memorable than movie ones - look at what Arnie did with his lines or Tarantino or even Casablanca (1942) - people have been quoting that for over 65 yrs. Do TV magazines have a top 100 scenes or quotes like Empire magazine or even Channel 4 sometimes do? Everyone knows the opening scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981).

 

The odd line or two does not prove the point. I could counter your examples with just one word 'Doh!'

 

Maybe TV guides Should have a top 100 scenes or quotes.

[nicky]

Alternativly, they don't want to shell out £20 (for a couple outside of London) to go sit in an uncomfortable seat, at the convenience of the cinema (time wise), where they ahve to sit through 20 minutes of adverts and put up with being surrouded by memeber of the ADD generation and the incontinent! I fear for the long term future of cinema, I think downloadable 'New media' will overtake it in 20-25 years.

I got all those beat, check me out:

 

You don't have to go out to the cinema to see a film, DVD and rental is still popular and is no reason why people shouldn't watch more films than TV other than the fact that all they need to do is pick up the remote. You can even rent physical DVD movies online now. Cinema and TV shows will both suffer the fate of the digital download age.

 

I would say that more people have seen RDA in Stargate than have seen Kurt Russell.

The only people who know who RDA is and can put his name to his face are the fans of his shows. You don't have to be a fan to know who Kurt Russell is or even to have seen any of his films - movies stars have their names above the film's title on the posters on bus stops and everywhere, TV stars don't. I'd say more people have seen a Kurt Russell film than a RDA TV show episode. I dont think any of today's TV stars even have a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Big TV stars like RDA or Shats have nothing on big movie star like Will Smith, Pitt, De Niro, Pacino, Clooney, Hanks, Depp, Cruise or Cage - all I have to do is say their surnames and you know who I mean, Shatner's is about the only one to the expection. Movie directors are bigger than TV ones too. I cant even name one TV-only director who hasnt made a movie too. You've heard of a "film buff", right? Have you ever heard of a "TV buff"??

 

The odd line or two does not prove the point. I could counter your examples with just one word 'Doh!'

The Simpsons' "Doh" is probably the most famous quotable line TV has to offer (not that there are many) and even that show surrended to cinema by releasing a movie version. Anyway, I raise your "Doh!" with: "May The Force be with you", "I'll be back", "Hasta la vista, baby", "I am your father", "Yippee ki-yay, muthafcka", "My momma always said life is like a box of chocolates...", "The first rule of Fight Club is...", "Say hello to my little friend", "You talking to me?", "Show me the money". Edited April 30, 2008 by nicky

[chris_mk]

Alternativly, they don't want to shell out £20 (for a couple outside of London) to go sit in an uncomfortable seat, at the convenience of the cinema (time wise), where they ahve to sit through 20 minutes of adverts and put up with being surrouded by memeber of the ADD generation and the incontinent! I fear for the long term future of cinema, I think downloadable 'New media' will overtake it in 20-25 years.

I got all those beat, check me out:

 

You don't have to go out to the cinema to see a film, DVD and rental is still popular and is no reason why people shouldn't watch more films than TV other than the fact that all they need to do is pick up the remote. You can even rent physical DVD movies online now. Cinema and TV shows will both suffer the fate of the digital download age.

 

Sorry, thought you wer championing cinema and not just film, my error. I think TV will suffer less in teh digital age, because it's already adapting.

 

I would say that more people have seen RDA in Stargate than have seen Kurt Russell.

The only people who know who RDA is and can put his name to his face are the fans of his shows. You don't have to be a fan to know who Kurt Russell is or even to have seen any of his films - movies stars have their names above the film's title on the posters on bus stops and everywhere, TV stars don't. I'd say more people have seen a Kurt Russell film than a RDA TV show episode. I dont think any of today's TV stars even have a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Big TV stars like RDA or Shats have nothing on big movie star like Will Smith, Pitt, De Niro, Pacino, Clooney, Hanks, Depp, Cruise or Cage - all I have to do is say their surnames and you know who I mean, Shatner's is about the only one to the expection. Movie directors are bigger than TV ones too. I cant even name one TV-only director who hasnt made a movie too. You've heard of a "film buff", right? Have you ever heard of a "TV buff"??

 

I don't agree that you have to be a fan of McGyver or Stargate to know either the name of the face. People might know the name Kurt Russell but not picture his face (much less be able to name many of his films - they have mainly been 'cult') Stargate is shown globally, daily. There are over 160 hours of RDA in Stargate to chose from, I'm not sure Kurt Russell has made 80 films that you could name. LOTS of TV stars have a star on teh Hollywood walk of fame, wikipedia even has a TV category of them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stars...od_Walk_of_Fame

I will completely concede that the biggest Movie stars are bigger than the biggest TV Stars (Though I suspect the likes of Gerry Seinfild might give them a run for their money). These days, actors/actresses/writers/directors are all stepping between the two media, it's become more acceptable in Hollywood to do TV AFTER movie and not the more common vica versa.

 

Of course I've heard of a TV buff... I'd consider myself one... hell, there was even a long running game show on the BBC for TV buffs (Prime Time, hosted by Nole Edmunds - I think it was called 'Telly Addicts') How many long running, prime time shows are there about film buffs?

 

The odd line or two does not prove the point. I could counter your examples with just one word 'Doh!'

The Simpsons' "Doh" is probably the most famous quotable line TV has to offer (not that there are many) and even that show surrended to cinema by releasing a movie version. Anyway, I raise your "Doh!" with: "May The Force be with you", "I'll be back", "Hasta la vista, baby", "I am your father", "Yippee ki-yay, muthafcka", "My momma always said life is like a box of chocolates...", "The first rule of Fight Club is...", "Say hello to my little friend", "You talking to me?", "Show me the money".

 

Firstly, those aren't exactly modern quotes, secondly, I'm betting there are a lot of people on here who don't recognise half of them ('Say hello to my little friend' is beyond me) and thirdly, I don't think many of those of used with any regularity.

 

I would counter with 'bovvered', 'suits you', 'come on down' and a hundred quotes from TV. They may not be as lasting, but that's because TV keeps stuff fresher, meaning the shelf life is not as long.

[nicky]

People might know the name Kurt Russell but not picture his face (much less be able to name many of his films - they have mainly been 'cult') Stargate is shown globally, daily. There are over 160 hours of RDA in Stargate to chose from, I'm not sure Kurt Russell has made 80 films that you could name.

Of course I've heard of a TV buff... I'd consider myself one... hell, there was even a long running game show called 'Telly Addicts'. How many long running, prime time shows are there about film buffs?

But if people watchSG-1 surly they know about the movie, Stargate (1994) which Kurt Russell starred in? I'm pretty sure grannys are more likely to have at least heard of KR over RDA? I can't name 80 KR films (maybe 20) but I can't name more than only 2 RDA shows either. RDA may have 160hrs on TV behind him but it's only the fans who've seen that and isn't it quality over quantity and does he have toys, video-game or comic after his characters? Also I can name movie stars from the 1950s but not TV stars. I remember "Telly Addicts" but that was an appropriate show to have on TV cos it was about TV and viewers could relate to it. "Film 2008" with Jonathan Ross has been running since the early 70s non-stop and isn't a game show of course but is an informative show - it cant be a game-show cos film is not as easily accessible as TV cos you have to do more than pick up a remote to know about it and relate to what they're talking about, if you get what I mean.

 

Firstly, those aren't exactly modern quotes, secondly, I'm betting there are a lot of people on here who don't recognise half of them .

Things like "Doh" are pretty hard to top I have to say esp as it's a show that hasnt stopped yet but I still think film has much more quotes to choose from than TV. "May the Force be with you" has been about since 1977 and still going since the SW prequels so is Arnie's "I'll be back" (which I'd be v surpised if forumers didnt know). Is "Little Britian" shown internationally? I threw all them quotes in to illustrate that film has more quoateble lines than TV. "Say hello to my little friend" is Pacino in Scarface (1983).

Edited April 30, 2008 by nicky

[Too Tall]

It's all so personal and depands what you are defining as BIG.

 

Is BIG because they will be busy (i.e. popular)?

 

Is BIG because YOU really want to get their autograph?

 

Is BIG because they've had a long and interesting career?

 

Is BIG because they were part of a great film or TV show?

 

What is BIG to you? That's the question! And the answer is different for everyone with every guest.

 

If a guest is announced that you know will have a queue going on forever but you have no interest in, is that guest still BIG to YOU? If not this question will never be answered by anyone but you!

[frankslittlemachine]

It's all so personal and depands what you are defining as BIG.

 

Is BIG because they will be busy (i.e. popular)?

 

Is BIG because YOU really want to get their autograph?

 

Is BIG because they've had a long and interesting career?

 

Is BIG because they were part of a great film or TV show?

 

What is BIG to you? That's the question! And the answer is different for everyone with every guest.

 

If a guest is announced that you know will have a queue going on forever but you have no interest in, is that guest still BIG to YOU? If not this question will never be answered by anyone but you!

 

But, but TT your not arguing AND your making sense...that has no place in this thread...so i've been told!