Have Showmaster over-extended themselves ?

[chris_mk]

How can you ask whether SM are over-extending themselves when they are the ones taking all the risks to bring lots of events in various locations .

They should be applauded rather than criticised

Lets face it, isnt it about choice and noone is asking people to go to every event but have more to choose from.

 

Because some of us making these comments are fans of Showmasters and want to see all their events hugely visited by attendees. If the turn out for events continues to drop, then it could well mean that Showmasters cannot afford to bring over the quality of guests that they have done in the past.

 

If you have a lot more events to choose from, then that's great from an attendee point of view. Unfortunately, the number of guests that are available in finite. IF you have more events, then you have less guests at each event (as we have witnessed). Also, if you have more events, then the number of attendees AT each event also drops. This is not rocket science, it is simple supply/demand economics.

 

Ever heard the saying 'quality not quantity'? I think that's applicable here.

 

Finally, we are allowed to voice our concerns and constructive criticism on this forum. Whilst I know that forums are NOT for 'free speech' this is not against the rules.

 

I'd like to have seen the Coventry event actually taken place as a Cardiff/South West event instead.

 

Especially with the Dr Who/Torchwood interest at present, it would seem a more logical choice? Catering for fans in the SW corner that maybe can't make the other ones.

 

But Cardiff is a **** to get to and there is not the population concentration in the SW to make it viable. Another organiser (whom shall remain nameless) found out that holding an event in the SW puts off more fans than holding it in Glasgow!

[I'll Never Tell...]

jack of all trades, masters of none...

[Princess83]

I do think there's too many events this year...although I cheer showmasters for trying new things and wish them the best of luck with it, it's daunting and disappointing to see all these fantastic events and realise that you just won't have time or money to attend many of them.

 

I don't mind some events being on the quieter side - after the insanity that was LFCC 2007 I welcome a bit less of the crowds at conventions. But it does seem like SM have overstretched themselves this year. The writers strike doesn't help but I really do think the number of cons this year alone is a little crazy and is at risk of driving some people away from attending events.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Princess83

[TommyT]

How can you ask whether SM are over-extending themselves when they are the ones taking all the risks to bring lots of events in various locations .

They should be applauded rather than criticised

Lets face it, isnt it about choice and noone is asking people to go to every event but have more to choose from.

Hear, hear!!

Is one not allowed to express a concern that a friend might be acting unwisely? Can one not worry that SM may be overstretching themselves financially, which might affect their ability to bring in top guests in future, or that they might be damaging their reputation with some fans? It's not about knocking SM for the sake of it, it is, as chris_mk says, about the fact that there are only a limited number of actors and a limited number of fans, and that they may be coming up against those limits.

[Avengers7]

How can you ask whether SM are over-extending themselves when they are the ones taking all the risks to bring lots of events in various locations .

They should be applauded rather than criticised

Lets face it, isnt it about choice and noone is asking people to go to every event but have more to choose from.

 

 

I think your missing the point. Its great that Showmasters are doing all these signings around the country, I really enjoy myself when I go. When they were only happening 6 times a year it gave people a chance to save their money. However having 3 in a row as they have done this month, not many people are going to be able to afford to go.. I do applaud them for trying, however less is sometimes more from a customers point of view.

Edited March 9, 2008 by reddragon

[Nik_Doof]

I think another key point is that SM are creating more events to have a regular income throughout the year instead of a few large events, yes it makes business sense, but for the target market it doesn't.

 

My impressions (without any market research) is that the main populos of people attending SM events are 16-35, either students with little to no money, or people in average paying jobs, as the size of the market (sci-fi/film/tv fans) is not really going through any huge growth SM will struggle to actually get decent attendance at all these events, they're just partitioning up a already split market.

 

IANAMR/MA and imho

[TommyT]

But Cardiff is a **** to get to and there is not the population concentration in the SW to make it viable.

Not only is it tricky to get to (there are a limited number of ways to Cardiff, if you're outside Wales, which about 95% of the British population is), it can also sometimes be tricky to get out of, as a number of high profile events at the Millennium Stadium have highlighted; get the "wrong" weekend and engineering works mean the trains can stop in the early evening.

It's a real swine coming from the north. Look at Liverpool, which is only about 160 miles from Cardiff as the crow flies. If I'd wanted to make that journey today, I could do it in just under 3hrs 40 mins - so long as I didn't leave until lunchtime. Earlier or later trains are 4 or 5 hour trips; no matter how early you left Liverpool this morning, you couldn't get to Cardiff before 1pm.

To be honest, if you were looking at something in the southwest, then Bristol is easier to get to for most people, and is a much larger urban area (population of about 550,000 compared to about 325,000), meaning you're likely to have more casual customers on your doorstep. (Also, you don't have to pay money to drive a cross a bridge into Bristol )

[Charmer]

Some interesting points so far. I've seen a few about there being so many that people cant make it to all of them. I don't think that's that whole point of having so many, it's so you can at least have the chance of coming to one of the events. Not every can make it to MK either cuz of the location or the time of year, so the more events in different locations, the more chance there is of getting people who dont usually come to the MK ones of the so called "main" events.

[Scruffy]

How can you ask whether SM are over-extending themselves when they are the ones taking all the risks to bring lots of events in various locations .

They should be applauded rather than criticised

Lets face it, isnt it about choice and noone is asking people to go to every event but have more to choose from.

Hear, hear!!

Is one not allowed to express a concern that a friend might be acting unwisely? Can one not worry that SM may be overstretching themselves financially, which might affect their ability to bring in top guests in future, or that they might be damaging their reputation with some fans? It's not about knocking SM for the sake of it, it is, as chris_mk says, about the fact that there are only a limited number of actors and a limited number of fans, and that they may be coming up against those limits.

 

I would imagine SM will sit down at the end of this hectic year and judge whether it worked or not and decide on next years events accordingly.

I imagine they are like anyone running a business, they need to find a happy medium to suit the bank balance and keep the fans happy

[DavidB]

Some interesting points so far. I've seen a few about there being so many that people cant make it to all of them. I don't think that's that whole point of having so many, it's so you can at least have the chance of coming to one of the events. Not every can make it to MK either cuz of the location or the time of year, so the more events in different locations, the more chance there is of getting people who dont usually come to the MK ones of the so called "main" events.

 

I don't think they expect everyone to come to every event. If you look at the Glasgow event, while it perhaps had a weak lineup for the 'regulars' compared to say MK or LFACC, it did very well as far as I know. Why? Because it got a lot of people attending from Scotland and those who wouldn't travel elsewhere.

 

Now, I'm not saying just because Glasgow worked it means that having them all over the UK would be viable, but I would assume that they feel the need to test out areas and see if they work. Only they really know whether these new events have been financially successful or whatever.

[chris_mk]

Now, I'm not saying just because Glasgow worked it means that having them all over the UK would be viable, but I would assume that they feel the need to test out areas and see if they work. Only they really know whether these new events have been financially successful or whatever.

 

I agree that testing new venues and areas is necessary fro teh growth of the business... but is it fair to test these new areas when they are in direct competition with each other?

[DavidB]

In terms of other companies running in similar areas? Or SM events being so close to each other?

[lingham]

I think another key point is that SM are creating more events to have a regular income throughout the year instead of a few large events, yes it makes business sense, but for the target market it doesn't.

 

My impressions (without any market research) is that the main populos of people attending SM events are 16-35, either students with little to no money, or people in average paying jobs, as the size of the market (sci-fi/film/tv fans) is not really going through any huge growth SM will struggle to actually get decent attendance at all these events, they're just partitioning up a already split market.

 

IANAMR/MA and imho

 

 

spot on so by having more events they are as you said getting a steady income rather than a huge one lets say 3 times a year

[chris_mk]

In terms of other companies running in similar areas? Or SM events being so close to each other?

 

By my calculation, Showmasters alone have 6 events in 10 weeks.

 

I think another key point is that SM are creating more events to have a regular income throughout the year instead of a few large events, yes it makes business sense, but for the target market it doesn't.

 

My impressions (without any market research) is that the main populos of people attending SM events are 16-35, either students with little to no money, or people in average paying jobs, as the size of the market (sci-fi/film/tv fans) is not really going through any huge growth SM will struggle to actually get decent attendance at all these events, they're just partitioning up a already split market.

 

IANAMR/MA and imho

 

 

spot on so by having more events they are as you said getting a steady income rather than a huge one lets say 3 times a year

 

Except these are all bunched together.... and then again in September-November.

 

Surely it's not good business sense if you make less from several smaller events than you would have done from a couple of large ones?

[nicky]

I'd like to have seen the Coventry event actually taken place as a Cardiff/South West event instead.

Oh lemme guess...you're from that area, right??

 

 

But Cardiff is a **** to get to and there is not the population concentration in the SW to make it viable.

Can you believe someone not long ago suggest an event be held in DEVON??????????????????!!!!!!!!!! There isnt even a radius!!

Edited March 9, 2008 by nicky

[chris_mk]

I'd like to have seen the Coventry event actually taken place as a Cardiff/South West event instead.

Oh lemme guess...you're from that area, right??

 

Weirdly enough, I know him and he's not! He's WAY WAY nearer to Coventry!!

Edited March 9, 2008 by chris_mk

[I P Freely]

I'd like to have seen the Coventry event actually taken place as a Cardiff/South West event instead.

Oh lemme guess...you're from that area, right??

 

Weirdly enough, I know him and he's not! He's WAY WAY nearer to Coventry!!

 

Yet, ironically, it's harder for me to get there than Cardiff or Bristol!

 

 

 

I'd like to have seen the Coventry event actually taken place as a Cardiff/South West event instead.

Oh lemme guess...you're from that area, right??

 

Nope - from the Midlands - just in my experience places like Coventry that are more 'central' can often be HARDER to get to than Cardiff or Bristol, from out here on the Welsh border. For instance,had I tried to get there last Sunday by train, it would have been nearly 3pm by the time I got there!! I do have to admit, that I'm looking at things from the POV of a train user, not a car driver, as I don't currently own a vehicle.

 

Also - I was trying to raise the issue of why SM choose to have an event a few miles up the motorway from their established events in MK.If you're after new revenue streams, then surely you have to target new customers? I guess only Jason has the answer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But Cardiff is a **** to get to and there is not the population concentration in the SW to make it viable. Another organiser (whom shall remain nameless) found out that holding an event in the SW puts off more fans than holding it in Glasgow!

 

But we're not talking about a show specific con here, we're talking about having a generic signing event.

 

Also - Cardiff/Bristol are both just off the M4!

[chris_mk]

But Cardiff is a **** to get to and there is not the population concentration in the SW to make it viable. Another organiser (whom shall remain nameless) found out that holding an event in the SW puts off more fans than holding it in Glasgow!

 

But we're not talking about a show specific con here, we're talking about having a generic signing event.

 

Also - Cardiff/Bristol are both just off the M4!

 

I don't think it would be that different... yes, I'm referring to a weekend convention rather than a signing event, but the fans of said convention (and it's subject matter) tend to be ones who normally go out of their way to attend.... I'm pretty sure a LOT of them are also SM regulars.

 

The M4 is the road to hell

[sazzra]

Chucking in my two cents worth, the amount of events has meant that I'm actually not going to ANY this year - I'd normally treat London and MK as weekends away and go regardless of guests etc; with the number now I decided not to book for any unless guests were announced that I wanted to see and, as I can't stand Heroes or Dr Who, my credit card has been enjoying the break

 

And why not Swansea if we're thinking Wales? Go Mumbles

[emmah]

I am sure travelling ability to get to a show must come into Showmasters thinking but as they are based in Milton Keynes all the shows except for Glasgow seem to be within 2 hours of Milton Keynes !!!

but so many shows in London , Milton Keynes , Coventry , Manchester are all in a radius if you put a dot on Milton Keynes as the centre of their universe !!!!

[Havok]

I've been going to conventions and signing events since the mid 80's and in those days (apologies for sounding old!) you would only get a couple of "mini" conventions in the entire country. Over the years I've seen companies come and go trying to do conventions bigger and better than the preceding one. Conventions for programmes, films and celebs right throughout the various genres. This carried on to signing events with big halls full of stall holders and big name celebs.

 

These events are now everywhere. There's conventions in the London Area, Midlands, North West/East, Scotland, all over the place. From what I've seen as well, prices have gone up and numbers have gone down. At the end of the day it's numbers that drive these events. The revenue they make can fund future endeavors.

 

In my humble opinion (and it is only my opinion) Showmasters have diluted their own market. Whilst they still put 100%+ into these events I don't think they're going to be helping themselves. I went to the Manchester event today and although it was very enjoyable and everyone worked their socks off I have to admit that I thought it was sadly the worst Collectormania I have been to. Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy myself and had a good time. It just wasn't up to Showmasters usual high standard of event.

 

The room almost looked empty the traders were that spaced out, the guests were thinning out more than my hairline and the attendance looked so pitifully low that at times you could see from the autograph area straight through the front doors to outside to check the weather. I also thought it very naughty of Manchester Central to divide the room to put on another show. Especially with a P.A. which, at times, nearly drowned out Mike Winslow. (I said nearly.) It did give me a little giggle when, during the Nine Inch Nails, a kid said to his mum, "He said "F**K YOU LIKE AN ANIMAL!""

 

I think that this year will be a learning curve in two old adages. Less is more and you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Havok

[faythe]

I enjoyed today for how quiet it was. I had plenty of time to chat with the guests and although there were people waiting behind me I, and I would hope that nobody else felt at all rushed. I felt sorry for the vendors as they have put a good sum down to get floor space and there just weren't enough people there today.

 

I wouldn't use the term overextended themselves, I would prefer they keep the conventions somewhat more spaced, I cant afford it otherwise. I had to miss Coventry because of the costs, and Eclipse may bust me.

 

I don't think having the conventions this close had much effect on getting guests. It may have had some but its not a major factor.

 

I would suggest if they are doing conventions this close again then just do it with the ones that are least likely to have similar fans. for example the last 2 weeks have been the same style of show but Autographica would have been rather different and wouldnt attract so many of the same people.

 

Loved today, most peaceful con yet

 

Perhaps only because I am so antisocial.

Edited March 9, 2008 by faythe

[cat in boots]

People only have a finate amount of money to spend at these events and having tham all so close together, means people can't afford it, 3 in 3 weeks and no payday inbetween, not good for the pocket. Spoke to a number of dealers today, all of whom said how bad this was for them and some said how bad coventry was for them too. Problem is they won't come back if they don't even break even.

[tr1gger]

Me and the wife have been going to Collectormania Milton Keynes for the last five years and the Manchester one since it started. We won't be going back to Manchester again unless there's a really good guest. There's just not enough stalls or celebs to make it worth while. It seems odd that the worst of the shows is the most expensive to get into as well. Milton Keynes is much better - and free too.

 

I can understand why guests cancel as they've got to work as well its just a shame there was such a lack of them in Manchester this time. I think it's time the number of shows dropped again and stopped diluting it. It was as well organised as ever but I can't help but wonder how it is worth running so many different events for Showmasters?

[crippsy_99]

Show wise..I dont think so..attendee wise though yes kinda..I dont think ive ever seen shows as quiet as coventry last weekend, or manchester this weekend, BUT, I think thats only because 2 signing events within 2 weeks, not to mention eclipse next week and lockdown in what 3 weeks? I think it was too many events all so close to each other that did it this month, but dont think SM have overstretched themselves..

 

However, it does seem a bit silly to have coventry which is just up the line from MK, so perhaps it could be shifted to Cardiff instead? Ok some people will moan Cardiff's not always so easy to get too, but at least its not so close to the MK location, its somewhere different, and theres more things to do in cardiff rather than on the outskirts of coventry! Actually..id have thought cardiff would be easier to get too for a lot of people than coventry as the latters not on a motorway is it? And the airport is birminghams, trains can be iffy etc..

 

Not only is it tricky to get to (there are a limited number of ways to Cardiff, if you're outside Wales, which about 95% of the British population is), it can also sometimes be tricky to get out of, as a number of high profile events at the Millennium Stadium have highlighted; get the "wrong" weekend and engineering works mean the trains can stop in the early evening.

 

International airport, mainline railway, and a main motorway and you say its tricky? I never have problems, though as long as there wasnt a major sports match on in the millenium stadium as you mentioned then that would make things not so good.

Train wise though, its 2 hours from London which is closer than Manchester and even coventry isnt it? Its closer for people in the south west and wales, and if coming from the north all you need to do is change at crewe for a 3 hour train or Birmingham for a 2 hour train to Cardiff.

 

It's a real swine coming from the north. Look at Liverpool, which is only about 160 miles from Cardiff as the crow flies. If I'd wanted to make that journey today, I could do it in just under 3hrs 40 mins - so long as I didn't leave until lunchtime. Earlier or later trains are 4 or 5 hour trips; no matter how early you left Liverpool this morning, you couldn't get to Cardiff before 1pm.

 

Welcome to the welsh's lives

LFCC is the ONLY event I could do in a day, as living in cardiff, Manchester is 3:30-4hrs away, mk is 4-odd hours to get too, coventry takes 3, not even going to mention glasgow...hence why cheap b&b's are good, and if your not that bothered with anyone in particular, you dont go for just a day.

 

To be honest, if you were looking at something in the southwest, then Bristol is easier to get to for most people, and is a much larger urban area (population of about 550,000 compared to about 325,000), meaning you're likely to have more casual customers on your doorstep. (Also, you don't have to pay money to drive a cross a bridge into Bristol )

 

Theres not as much difference as that between them actually. Estimated populations in 2006 quoting from wikipedia (and yes I know its not totally accurate), cardiff's population was 317,500, bristol was 410,500, so a difference of almost 100,000 ok, but we have Dr who/Torchwood among other things which would pull in far more people than random Bristol..