Have Showmaster over-extended themselves ?

[gebes]

I don't think so in this case.

 

Show wise, I suspect that the writer's strike must have caused problems , as the guests that had been previously announced would have said yes to appearing as they had no work at the time, then the strike ended, and work started coming in.

 

Attendee wise, being that the events were so close together, some people may have had to prioritize which events they were doing. I'm doing all 3 this month, but that's my choice to do so.

 

As for travel, I can't really do any event in a day, as if I fly I've got to be up early to fly down, then have to leave early to get back to the airport. So I have to stay overnight most of the time whether I like it or not.

 

Apart from Glasgow ,It's a minimum 4 hour journey to any of the events for me.

Edited March 10, 2008 by gebes

[TommyT]

The M4 is the road to hell

Actually it's the road to Llanelli, but I can understand the confusion

[TommyT]

However, it does seem a bit silly to have coventry which is just up the line from MK, so perhaps it could be shifted to Cardiff instead? Ok some people will moan Cardiff's not always so easy to get too, but at least its not so close to the MK location, its somewhere different, and theres more things to do in cardiff rather than on the outskirts of coventry! Actually..id have thought cardiff would be easier to get too for a lot of people than coventry as the latters not on a motorway is it? And the airport is birminghams, trains can be iffy etc..

The Coventry venue was 2 miles from Junction 3 of the M6.

Not only is it tricky to get to (there are a limited number of ways to Cardiff, if you're outside Wales, which about 95% of the British population is), it can also sometimes be tricky to get out of, as a number of high profile events at the Millennium Stadium have highlighted; get the "wrong" weekend and engineering works mean the trains can stop in the early evening.

 

International airport, mainline railway, and a main motorway and you say its tricky? I never have problems, though as long as there wasnt a major sports match on in the millenium stadium as you mentioned then that would make things not so good.

Train wise though, its 2 hours from London which is closer than Manchester and even coventry isnt it? Its closer for people in the south west and wales, and if coming from the north all you need to do is change at crewe for a 3 hour train or Birmingham for a 2 hour train to Cardiff.

There are plenty of international airports in this country, and anyway, the number of SM show attendees who come via an airport must be 1% or less, I'd guess, so it's hardly a major consideration. Trains you have one mainline from London (which incidentally was showing 3 hours from London yesterday, although I'll grant 2 hours is more normal), plus the rather slower and more ramshackle line from the north which means that even on a good day you're 3 1/2 hours from Liverpool or Manchester. And you have one motorway. Maybe I'm unlucky, but I've been to Cardiff, Swansea and Newport about a dozen times in the last 2 1/2 years, at different times, on different days, always outside the rush hour, and I've always got stuck in jams on the M4 once I get over the bridge. (And none of them have been days where there's been something on at the Millennium Stadium.)

With all due respect to those in South Wales who live west of Cardiff, as far as most of Britain is concerned, Cardiff is pretty much towards the end of a line; most of a show's attendees will be coming in from one direction only. You can get into places like London and Manchester from several directions, via several different motorways and major trainlines. Even Bristol is basically served by two motorways, rather than one.

To be honest, if you were looking at something in the southwest, then Bristol is easier to get to for most people, and is a much larger urban area (population of about 550,000 compared to about 325,000), meaning you're likely to have more casual customers on your doorstep. (Also, you don't have to pay money to drive a cross a bridge into Bristol )

 

Theres not as much difference as that between them actually. Estimated populations in 2006 quoting from wikipedia (and yes I know its not totally accurate), cardiff's population was 317,500, bristol was 410,500, so a difference of almost 100,000 ok, but we have Dr who/Torchwood among other things which would pull in far more people than random Bristol..

Ah, but I wasn't talking about the cities themselves, but the urban areas; the cities and surrounding suburbs. Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conur..._United_Kingdom

Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Cardiff; I've enjoyed every visit there, and it has some great pubs, gig venues etc and nice people; it's just a bit out of the way for most people. (And don't dis Bristol - it's a pretty cool place too :-)

 

Granted, given that Coventry is only 100 miles from Manchester and 50 from MK, I don't think it was the greatest location to have chosen, but I don't think Cardiff would have been any better.

 

And why not Swansea if we're thinking Wales? Go Mumbles

Because it's an extra half hour into Wales, which means that it's an extra half hour for at least a large minority if not the majority of attendees to travel.

[jakeblue]

Personally id vote to stay at Coventry as the venue was mega easy to find and get to, the layout was great and everything about the place and the day was perfect

[gahab13]

i went to coventry and manchester and it cost me a fortune to travel, i spent more on accomodation and trains than at the events themselves.

 

i did like the more relaxed atmosphere this time at manchester as i got more time with the guests and the talks are always the best bit for me.

 

glasgow will be my next one, but next year theres no way i'm splashing out all that money on events so close to one another. unless there are some top name guests.

[The_Wookie69]

i went to coventry and manchester and it cost me a fortune to travel, i spent more on accomodation and trains than at the events themselves.

 

i did like the more relaxed atmosphere this time at manchester as i got more time with the guests and the talks are always the best bit for me.

 

glasgow will be my next one, but next year theres no way i'm splashing out all that money on events so close to one another. unless there are some top name guests.

 

We just need to make sure SM get the top names for you then gahab13!

[gahab13]

i went to coventry and manchester and it cost me a fortune to travel, i spent more on accomodation and trains than at the events themselves.

 

i did like the more relaxed atmosphere this time at manchester as i got more time with the guests and the talks are always the best bit for me.

 

glasgow will be my next one, but next year theres no way i'm splashing out all that money on events so close to one another. unless there are some top name guests.

 

We just need to make sure SM get the top names for you then gahab13!

 

 

well i'm not that picky, i went to coventry on the basis of bruce campbell being there, ernie hudson and robert englund clinched the deal for me. and bobba fett and r2d2 were bonuses.

 

i understand the popularity of dr.who and such but i havent watched them since i was wee, i'm more a movie fan than tv really so some who was in 2 eps of dr.who i wont spend hundreds of pounds going to see.

 

farscape,buffy,x-files,oz are the only tv shows i would really like guests from.

 

ok maybe i am picky

[TerraHawk]

Even Bristol is basically served by two motorways, rather than one.

 

And an airport. Does it have an large exhibition hall though?

[binkyx5]

This is the first time I have posted, but thought would give my own feedback re the weekend. one of disapointment really.

 

I first attended a Collectamania in Manchester a couple of years ago, which I think was Manchesters initail event. In comparison to last weekend it was noticably more vibrant with many many more / better known guests, more stalls and caught my imagination to the extent I have since travelled to Milton Keynes twice and built up quite a collection of autographs. It has become my new hobby and apprecaite all the efforts put in to bring these stars to see us mere normal people........

 

However.....I'm not really interested in the reasons why, but ultimately had Saturday been the first event I had attended the bug wouldn't have caught the same..........so lets hope Showmaster can turn the clock back to how it was and turn this around next time.......if the guests are there I'll smoke £160 in the rush, but if they ain't I won't......simple really......

[DavidB]

if the guests are there I'll smoke £160 in the rush, but if they ain't I won't......simple really......

 

But that's the case with many long-time attendees too - it's all a matter of personal taste, and if the guests are who they want to meet - quantity of guests doesn't necessarily reflect on whether someone will attend or not .. after all, it could end up as 30 guests they don't want to meet rather than 20 or something!

 

It is unfortunate when there's an event that doesn't hold any appeal for an attendee, but it does happen. As with any event, we just have to wait for the announcements and hope there's something to entice us

[vintageSW77]

i dunno the overall atmosphere wasnt the same as the Simon Pegg Gmex do

Sunday was an odd one...a bit dull....or was it because it was my first 2 dayer

[chris_mk]

if the guests are there I'll smoke £160 in the rush, but if they ain't I won't......simple really......

 

But that's the case with many long-time attendees too - it's all a matter of personal taste, and if the guests are who they want to meet - quantity of guests doesn't necessarily reflect on whether someone will attend or not .. after all, it could end up as 30 guests they don't want to meet rather than 20 or something!

 

It is unfortunate when there's an event that doesn't hold any appeal for an attendee, but it does happen. As with any event, we just have to wait for the announcements and hope there's something to entice us

 

That doesn't really make sense. If there are 30 guests there, the odds of one or two being of interest to an attendee are higher, unless they are ALL from the same show/film.

 

++edit++

 

Accoring to the website, there was 15-20 guests per day this time round, compared to 38 the first Manchester event. Whilst I'm not saying that there weren't some great guests this time, there were a LOT more 'bigger' guests at the first one.

Edited March 10, 2008 by chris_mk

[SilvaNemesis]

Me and the wife have been going to Collectormania Milton Keynes for the last five years and the Manchester one since it started. We won't be going back to Manchester again unless there's a really good guest. There's just not enough stalls or celebs to make it worth while. It seems odd that the worst of the shows is the most expensive to get into as well. Milton Keynes is much better - and free too.

 

I can understand why guests cancel as they've got to work as well its just a shame there was such a lack of them in Manchester this time. I think it's time the number of shows dropped again and stopped diluting it. It was as well organised as ever but I can't help but wonder how it is worth running so many different events for Showmasters?

 

 

Whilst I agree that there was a lack of guests in Manchester this time, I don't agree that the Milton Keynes one is better than the Coventry or Manchester one. For me that is due to the fact there is free entry as it's in a shopping centre which means not only do you get people like us who go because they really are interested in it and meeting the celebs, but you get everyone else who's just out doing the shopping and who treat the event as a bit of an added extra, they're not really into it but it's there so they go to it anyway which when I went meant that out of 6 people I went to see, baring in mind I could only make the Saturday, I saw a grand total of 2! It was the most disappointing day out I've had in terms of conventions, I don't know how the people of Milton Keynes feel (the general shoppers) whether they're grateful that it brings trade into the city or whether it just pisses them off... who knows?

[DavidB]

That doesn't really make sense. If there are 30 guests there, the odds of one or two being of interest to an attendee are higher, unless they are ALL from the same show/film.

 

++edit++

 

Accoring to the website, there was 15-20 guests per day this time round, compared to 38 the first Manchester event. Whilst I'm not saying that there weren't some great guests this time, there were a LOT more 'bigger' guests at the first one.

 

It does make sense. While you may well think it increases the odds of there being someone of interest to an attendee, it's not necessarily true. It's just as possible there won't be anything for them in the additional guests.

 

Obviously that's all down to the attendee and how wide a scope they have in terms of wishlists etc. Some people only ever go for one very specific show or something, so obviously the likelihood of them being pleased is fairly low unless it's something that's regularly covered.

 

When you think about it - compared to the number of TV shows and movies out there, we get very little overall representation through guests. There's so much that ISN'T covered compared to what is.

[chris_mk]

That doesn't really make sense. If there are 30 guests there, the odds of one or two being of interest to an attendee are higher, unless they are ALL from the same show/film.

 

++edit++

 

Accoring to the website, there was 15-20 guests per day this time round, compared to 38 the first Manchester event. Whilst I'm not saying that there weren't some great guests this time, there were a LOT more 'bigger' guests at the first one.

 

It does make sense. While you may well think it increases the odds of there being someone of interest to an attendee, it's not necessarily true. It's just as possible there won't be anything for them in the additional guests.

 

Obviously that's all down to the attendee and how wide a scope they have in terms of wishlists etc. Some people only ever go for one very specific show or something, so obviously the likelihood of them being pleased is fairly low unless it's something that's regularly covered.

 

When you think about it - compared to the number of TV shows and movies out there, we get very little overall representation through guests. There's so much that ISN'T covered compared to what is.

 

I'm guessing you've never studied statistics..... Of COURSE the odds are increased of there being a guest that an attendee wants to meet if there are more guests.!! I'm baffled as to how you'd think otherwise. An increase in guests doesn't guarantee than there's someone every potential attendee wants to meet, but there's a far greater chance.

 

As for the fact that every show and film can't be covered, well that's irrelevant. If you have more guests representing more shows/films, then more people ARE going to be interested.

[SerbianJanet]

I like that SM are trying to run shows in different locations. I do, though, think that perhaps two a year is too many.

 

Why not run one Manchester in the spring and one Midlands in November, or the other way around, instead of having one in each place a week or two apart every time?

[DavidB]

How is it irrelevant? It's very important to realise how much isn't covered.

 

Of course I've not studied statistics, nor do I wish to know exact numbers and whatnot, but in theory doesn't it increase the chance of them NOT being interested too? I don't know.

 

There's too many variables anyway, including ones that really can't be measured - you get the two camps: less is more, and more is more. Whether it's quantity of guests, or quantity of events, it's the same really.

 

Clearly there's no definitive answer, but as with anything to do with these events, you'll always get people that think it's crap anyway.

[TommyT]

Of course I've not studied statistics, nor do I wish to know exact numbers and whatnot, but in theory doesn't it increase the chance of them NOT being interested too? I don't know.

No.

Working on the assumption that a potential attendee, will, by definition, be interested in somebody (otherwise they wouldn't be a potential attendee), then the more guests that you have at an event, the more chance that at least one will appeal to that attendee.

The increase in that chance may be small, but it is bound to be an increase.

 

It's an infinitely variable range. If there are no guests, then the chances of the attendee liking a guest is obviously zero, as there is no guest to like. If the guestlist consists of the entire population of the world, then the chance of the potential attendee liking somebody is one. Obviously, you don't have to have 6 billion guests; let's just consider repeat guests. Say that over the past few years SM have had 240 different guests who are still available and your potential attendee would be interested in just one of them. So the chance of any guest being the one that the attendee is interested in is 1 in 240. If you have 20 guests, then the odds that the one guest the potential attendee wants will be at the show is 20 in 240, or 1 in 12. But if you have 40 guests attending, then the odds that the one guest the potential attendee wants will be at the show is 40 in 240, or 1 in 6.

 

An increase in numbers of guests does not increase the chance of the potential attendee being not interested, unless you're factoring in something else, like the attendee having an aversion to "too many" guests.

[graeme2020uk]

Nice post Tommy!

Edited March 10, 2008 by GraemeMc

[DavidB]

I'm all for having a sensible discussion about things, so no need for funny comments Graeme. If you have something good to contribute, go ahead. Editing it doesn't change anything.

 

Tommy, in all honesty it's tricky to say what exactly I (or anyone else) factors into the equation. Basing it purely on numbers/statistics, clearly I understand what's been said there, but obviously an event organiser is unlikely to base their choices around something that numerically specific - after all, they could get hundreds of guests in the hope that one will appeal to someone!

 

I certainly take the point though.

Edited March 10, 2008 by DavidB

[chris_mk]

How is it irrelevant? It's very important to realise how much isn't covered.

 

 

No. It's important to know how much IS covered. Because of the number of shows/films, the stuff that ISN'T covered is always going to be near infinite (just slightly less infinite if you have more guests.)

 

I'm baffled as to how you can try and realistically defend the notion of having less guests (which we can all see IS happening, possibly because of factors like the writers strike, but almost certainly because of the INCREASE in events).

 

I'm all for having a sensible discussion about things, so no need for funny comments Graeme. If you have something good to contribute, go ahead. Editing it doesn't change anything.

 

Tommy, in all honesty it's tricky to say what exactly I (or anyone else) factors into the equation. Basing it purely on numbers/statistics, clearly I understand what's been said there, but obviously an event organiser is unlikely to base their choices around something that numerically specific - after all, they could get hundreds of guests in the hope that one will appeal to someone!

 

I certainly take the point though.

 

How can you say the organisers cannot factor this in? If they have (for example) 200 guests willing to do events in one year, then if you have 10 events, that averages 20 a show. If you have 5 events, that is 40 a show (much like the first G Mex). As a punter, the odds of me wanting to go to a show with 40 guests is greater (I went to the previous G Mex events, but only wanted to see one guest this time and couldn't be bothered.)

[TommyT]

Tommy, in all honesty it's tricky to say what exactly I (or anyone else) factors into the equation. Basing it purely on numbers/statistics, clearly I understand what's been said there, but obviously an event organiser is unlikely to base their choices around something that numerically specific - after all, they could get hundreds of guests in the hope that one will appeal to someone!

 

I certainly take the point though.

The numbers weren't there to be specific, they were just there to demonstrate a difference. And I appreciate that there are numerous different factors to consider. I was just spurred into action by your two sentences

 

"While you may well think it increases the odds of there being someone of interest to an attendee, it's not necessarily true. It's just as possible there won't be anything for them in the additional guests."

 

The second sentence is pretty correct (I'll spare you the explanation of how my numerical example backs you up on that ), but the first sentence was as accurate as saying "2+2=5". Differences of opinion I can take, but mathematical inaccuracy... And yes, I was no loss to the teaching profession, before anybody else says it

[graeme2020uk]

Sure thing David,but what did you edit out of your post at 09.41pm ??

 

Its purely up to people who attend these events regularly to decide wether its worth Showmasters time or not.Loads of people on here will go no matter what.Give them a Heroes guest,Buffy guest,Star Trek guest,Star Wars guest....see a pattern developing? Which is fine coz their young and thats what they save all their money up for and they like to spend their money on.

But when you have dedicated people like that,theres no way you can expect them to attend events merely weeks apart.Most people cant afford it.So....you need to add those other kinds of guests in.Those guests that are 'outside the box'. At Midlands I believe Bruce Campbell was one of those guests.He would attract a completely different fanbase compared to the kind of guests we 'expect' to see.

 

As much as i dont watch any of those shows and have no clue what their about theres obviously a lot of people who do. That makes them a lot of money. It keeps the fans happy. So i dont really think it matters if you have 10 or 40 guests. As long as each guest brings something different to the event and a certain type of fan,wether its sci-fi or cult tv or horror or movies or sport.

[DavidB]

Sure thing David,but what did you edit out of your post at 09.41pm ??

 

I edited it in to reflect the fact you'd changed your post while I was writing mine.

 

As for what else you said, it's tricky. I personally believe someone like Bruce Campbell appeals to a large section of the same kinda fans that would be interested in the other things you mentioned. He's not necessarily someone that would have a huge casual appeal. He's definitely popular in cult terms more than anything - so even bringing him on board wouldn't necessarily have pulled in a different crowd.

 

And the age thing? I don't know about that either. I know older people that save up and spend hundreds at events - something that's unlikely for the younger attendees to do. I doubt they have huge amounts to have expansive collections.

 

It's something that can be debated forever. Like I've said a few times, the variables are endless and there's never going to be a right/wrong answer. Everyone is different, and so Showmasters kinda just have to go with what they believe is going to work. If it doesn't, then I'm sure they'll learn from it.

 

I don't know if this jam-packed period of events has been successful or not, but I'm sure we'll find out if/when they do it again.

[crippsy_99]

How can you say the organisers cannot factor this in? If they have (for example) 200 guests willing to do events in one year, then if you have 10 events, that averages 20 a show. If you have 5 events, that is 40 a show (much like the first G Mex).

 

And as people have said time and time again, which you seem to be either missing every time or just plain ignoring..guests are only available at specific times due to work commitments for each..

By having 10 events, then the chance of a guest being free on one of those dates is a lot higher than just 5..it may be the case that their not available for say MK or london or manchester, but might be available for say one of the midlands events..

So if that event hadnt happened, then guest would not be able to attend, therefor people would miss out. Now im only using midlands as an example, as the newest event, but what if Bruce campbell was ONLY available for the forseeable future on that one weekend (and he may well have been!)..because that event was there, people could meet him..if it hadnt taken place, and he wasnt available for manchester or indeed any other show thats currently planned, then no-one would have met him..