such_jaunt Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Do you work for showmasters Pyschosis and Davidb? Only even the most innocent question or possible query and you are jumping down peoples throat to kiss showmasters butt's and as lovely as they maybe or infact how strongly you feel they are right, I am not sure why you feel so inclined to argue every single one? I think people should be entitled to atleast express their opinion, without feeling they will be ganged up against for it - there is a difference between disagreeing and expressing why and just being plain spiteful. I understand why people are annoyed about this announcement with pressure being put on people to buy tickets for Eclipse so that we can find out who the sixth guest might be, announcing two of the guests appearance at an event a week before for a great deal less isn't going to convince those who were unsure to take the plunge no matter how different signing events or conventions are. I think it's awesome news for those that wanted to meet Hayden and Noah and couldn't afford Eclipse though, so I am happy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted January 28, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 28, 2008 No, I don't work for Showmasters at all. However, as a moderator, I've had plenty of opportunities to talk with them in the past about their events and the guests etc - and I'm pretty sure I consider how these events are run more than a lot of attendees do when they ask 'why can't you get ...?' or 'why can't they go to .... instead?' etc. Truth is there are plenty of people that don't give a second thought to the efforts behind organising these events, and they just think it's as simple as dialing up a few numbers and inviting all the best guests. It's a nice idealistic vision of a business that is extremely tricky and frustrating at the best of times. You see it as 'kissing showmasters butt', which is probably the most offensive thing said in this topic - most people have managed to have discussion in here without resulting to personal insults. I see it as taking a slightly more informed viewpoint sometimes. If people don't want to be disagreed with, then a public forum isn't the place to be posting an opinion to be honest. You have as much right to disagree with me as anyone else does, but you're better off doing it without being insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Do you work for showmasters Pyschosis and Davidb? Only even the most innocent question or possible query and you are jumping down peoples throat to kiss showmasters butt's and as lovely as they maybe or infact how strongly you feel they are right, I am not sure why you feel so inclined to argue every single one? I think people should be entitled to atleast express their opinion, without feeling they will be ganged up against for it - there is a difference between disagreeing and expressing why and just being plain spiteful. I understand why people are annoyed about this announcement with pressure being put on people to buy tickets for Eclipse so that we can find out who the sixth guest might be, announcing two of the guests appearance at an event a week before for a great deal less isn't going to convince those who were unsure to take the plunge no matter how different signing events or conventions are. I think it's awesome news for those that wanted to meet Hayden and Noah and couldn't afford Eclipse though, so I am happy for them. I don't see what issue you have with us, other than that we disagree with you? Have we: - Called people names? - Told them that they can't have an opinion? - Abused them? - Used mean smilies? - Threatened them? No. We simply disagree. It's a public forum. Post your opinion publicly and we are entitled to give you a public response. We haven't done anything wrong unless you can find some way that we were mean and nasty to people. We weren't. Other than people calling us "silly/jumping down people's throats/kissing butt" and generally being sarcastic I fail to see where any personal attacks have occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyT Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 If they are doing that, they're doing it for the wrong reasons. Going to Eclipse for JUST autographs and nothing else is like paying to go to the cinema to watch the trailers and then leave, then complaining that the cinema is ripping you off because the trailer was shown on TV too. They spent the money and took the chance on something like that, they can't really complain. I wasn't going to say anything else, but you're being silly now. You can't compare 2 of the 5 guests at the convention to a trailer...they're the feature film not the bit beforehand! Yes, I can, because you're not getting the point. Signing event = autograph Weekend convention = autograph, interaction between the guests, interaction between YOU and the guests, photo shoots, long talks, dedicated atmosphere, dedicated dealers tables, parties that the guests may attend, and a dedicated cocktail party with the guests if you're a gold pass holder, better environment, and much more. THAT is what you're paying for. If you paid for something that by and large you don't want, you are at fault, not Showmasters. Anyone who wanted what they have paid for will not be affected by this because they will still want to go. The only ones bothered by it are the ones who either don't understand what a weekend convention is, or understand what one is and decided to waste their money regardless. OK then, let's try another analogy. If somebody bought a ticket for a convention (especially a gold pass) just to get one or two autographs, it's a bit like somebody buying a theatre ticket for a play, just so they have the off-chance of catching the actor before and after the play, and taking no interest in the play at all. I mean, it's perfectly acceptable for people to do that, but I think the majority of the theatregoers would find it rather odd. And if that person then says "bloody hell, what a rip-off, I could have saved my money and waited outside the stage door and maybe got my autograph anyway without buying a ticket", the majority of theatregoers might remark that yes, they could have, but then they would have missed a wonderful play, not to mention they could have stood outside all night in the cold and the wet rather than sat in a theatre seat with an agreeable g'n't at the interval. And if said person says "yes, but I don't really give a flying falafel about the play or the g'n't or the comfy seats, I just wanted an autograph", then perhaps some of the theatregoers would remark that you were missing out on a wonderful piece of drama, and if you didn't want to see the play then yes, perhaps you were a little strange for buying a ticket to it... Or how much sympathy would you have for "A" in the following? A: I'm really brassed off B: Why? A: I've bought a five bedroomed house in Kensington, and it's really expensive? B: So? A: Well I've now just seen a little studio flat in Kensington and it's much cheaper! B: So? A: Well I've spent all my money on this five bedroomed house with two ensuite bathrooms, a garage and a swimming pool, and i could have bought the studio flat instead and saved a fortune. B: So why did you buy the big place? A: Because i want to live in Kensington, and it was the only place on the market; the studio flat didn't come on until after I'd bought the other place. B: Yes, but you've got a garage, and guest bedrooms, and a swimming pool... A: Yes, but I only want a place to sleep and cook and get washed; a studio flat would have been fine B: But you were so desperate to live in Kensington, that you blew all your money on the first thing you saw? Couldn't be bothered to wait? A: Er, yes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted January 28, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) Well Becs, I gotta tell ya - butt kissing gets you nowhere anyway! I mean, I've been doing this for over 4 years now and I didn't even get to sit with Hayden at LFACC So really, if I was a butt kisser, I'd have quit by now Edited January 28, 2008 by DavidB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 You're JOKING?! I was expecting to sit by Patrick Stewart at his next event in repayment for this. I want a refund on my butt kissing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruffy Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Sorry - massive case of too many conventions..... Not quite sure what this relates to??? There are only too many conventions if in fact you want to go to them all Surely whether organisers hold 2 or 20 conventions a year giving a big choice and you like only 2 then you only got to 2 If on the other hand you like all then you prioritise then decide what you can afford. A lot of people make holiday weekends around conventions in order to have fun, meet new and old friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crippsy_99 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Just curious here..but wasnt it mentioned somewhere thay Hayden starts filming something new just before eclipse so might not have had that much availibility or something, though something was prob worked out for Eclipse? If she is/was filming, 2 weekends/weeks off would seem a bit much in the film peoples eyes, so im guessing she either isnt, or hopefully wont cancel eclipse to come to manchester. Does slightly annoy me hearing the announcements seeing as the 2 guests I would have liked to have seen most at eclipse cancelled, then the next one down the list (Hayden) is now here. At least eclipse still has David and Jayma while no other event does (yet anyway) . Im sure Sendhill is a nice bloke, its just his character does my head in. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
such_jaunt Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 And as such you couldn't just express that you know a lot of effort has gone into the events, and you're sure they will all be good, and leave it at that, rather than hounding individuals with questions deliberately guised to antagonize and make them feel unwelcome?! God bless your luck if butt-kisser is the most offensive word every expressed about you. But you were both being extremely unfair in your responses and not considering the feelings of those who may not be Showmasters convention going enthusiasts like yourself. The nature of being a moderator is to keep the peace and help answer newbies questions (even ones you may find inane or disagree with) And I think you know you were doing neither if you look at your replies honestly you know they are spiced with more than a bit of malice. Whether we agree or disagree about the topic itself is irrelevant it's your attitude that I found objectionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) And as such you couldn't just express that you know a lot of effort has gone into the events, and you're sure they will all be good, and leave it at that, rather than hounding individuals with questions deliberately guised to antagonize and make them feel unwelcome?! God bless your luck if butt-kisser is the most offensive word every expressed about you. But you were both being extremely unfair in your responses and not considering the feelings of those who may not be Showmasters convention going enthusiasts like yourself. The nature of being a moderator is to keep the peace and help answer newbies questions (even ones you may find inane or disagree with) And I think you know you were doing neither if you look at your replies honestly you know they are spiced with more than a bit of malice. Whether we agree or disagree about the topic itself is irrelevant it's your attitude that I found objectionable. They are not deliberately guised to antagonise and make people feel unwelcome. You may take a disagreement that way, but you are widely off the mark on both of our intentions. Nobody is being unfair. I'm honestly astounded. Hounding... antagonising... trying to make people unwelcome... unfair... uncaring... spiced with malice... You're so far off the mark that I don't even know how to begin. Would you care to point out which comments I've made that are offensive? Or all of those things because we disagree? I have no intention to hurt, antagonise, jab at, push away, or otherwise be a completely unacceptable devil of a person to anyone. Say what you will, but do NOT tell me that I am those things when I'm not. You may TAKE them that way, but for you to tell me that I MEAN them that way is almost upsetting, and frankly, by far, far, far, far, far, far, far the most offensive thing not only on this thread but that I've read towards myself in this forum. So no, in conclusion, I do not see a single one of those things. I post. Someone replies. I reply. It's how a discussion works, and it does not make me or David the devil incarnate. Edited January 28, 2008 by Psychosis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyT Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Just curious here..but wasnt it mentioned somewhere thay Hayden starts filming something new just before eclipse so might not have had that much availibility or something, though something was prob worked out for Eclipse? If she is/was filming, 2 weekends/weeks off would seem a bit much in the film peoples eyes Said project could well be being delayed by the ongoing writers' strike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted January 28, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 28, 2008 And as such you couldn't just express that you know a lot of effort has gone into the events, and you're sure they will all be good, and leave it at that, rather than hounding individuals with questions deliberately guised to antagonize and make them feel unwelcome?! In your opinion, my aim was to antagonize. It wasn't. If you choose to read it that way, then that's up to you. However, if I wanted to antagonize someone, I'd probably just call them stupid for buying a Gold Pass when they weren't interested in the whole package. I didn't do that, nor would I. God bless your luck if butt-kisser is the most offensive word every expressed about you. But you were both being extremely unfair in your responses and not considering the feelings of those who may not be Showmasters convention going enthusiasts like yourself. The nature of being a moderator is to keep the peace and help answer newbies questions (even ones you may find inane or disagree with) And I think you know you were doing neither if you look at your replies honestly you know they are spiced with more than a bit of malice. Whether we agree or disagree about the topic itself is irrelevant it's your attitude that I found objectionable. I've been perfectly polite and respectful in my replies, even if they are disagreeing with someones points. I never resorted to insulting anyone, which you clearly felt you had to do. Trust me, I've had a lot worse off people off here, but when you have to resort to 'butt kissing' accusations then perhaps your valid points are completely missed. As for the nature of being a moderator - I think you'll find I do answer questions and guide people to the correct information etc. And keeping the peace? I have no problems whatsoever with discussion on here, as long as it's kept on a sensible level - which I think you'll find it WAS until you came in with the insult. Not only am I a moderator, but I'm also an attendee - therefore, I have opinions from both sides as such. There's not been any 'malice' from me here. Just people getting stressed over others daring to reply on a public forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showmasters Admin showmasters Posted January 28, 2008 Author Showmasters Admin Share Posted January 28, 2008 Hi all Let me start to try to answer some of your thoughts and questions. Firstly, Hayden became available to come over earlier which meant she could do both events; originally she was offered the dates for 2008 to pick one or two out that worked date wise for her. She picked Eclipse but as she is now available the week before and wanted to do both events we felt this would work out better as this means we now can share the flight cost for her and her mother, 2 upper class flights, between both events. Why is this good for Eclipse? Well, it means we have a bigger budget for guests at Eclipse so we can spend more on guests, making Eclipse better for all the fans going to it. Noah is coming over with his family, and I think this will be one of the only times he will be coming to the UK, so we also felt it was fair to give more fans a chance to see him on this rear occasion. No other guests that are attending Eclipse are going to Manchester, so Eclipse will have 4 guests that are unique so the event will still be special. Some have said that Noah and Hayden are going to a cheaper event, so why buy a gold pass? Well, if you bought a 1 day ticket for Manchester Early Bird it would cost £10, then a photo session for Noah and Hayden would cost another £35, and the signatures would cost another £35, totaling £80, and you would still potentially have to wait in line for a lot of the day, and there are no Q&As and you would have only met 2 guests, so I do not think you can really compare both things as being the same, especially as there is far more to a convention than just getting the guests autos and photo shoots, and for those of you have not been to a convention before, you will soon see that it's a lot of fun. Next, I don't feel that people who may not be able to go to Eclipse should be stopped from meeting these guests just because those guests are going to Eclipse the week after, as it really harms no one, pleases a lot of people, and helps Eclipse bring bigger guests. So what's the harm? Another thing we all have one thing in common we are all fans of Heroes, so I just want to say to jael001, be cool, the convention will be a lot of fun, sometimes people say things as soon as they read them and just say the first thing that comes into their head, but it's not personal, we all just care a lot about our passion and it's OK to be passionate about the thing we love, so lets all get along, and enjoy Eclipse. One last thing. People are all quite reactionary and have a lot of views on how things should be and should not be, but lets just get to Eclipse and see how it turns out. We have put a lot of work into Eclipse and we know you will all have a great time. We have a lot in store for you all. Well, I hope that helps explain where we are coming from and we look forward to seeing you all soon Jason PS Psychosis & DavidB who are you butt kissing which one of us i just want to know because we are arguing between ourselves over it i think its Daveys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Which one would you prefer? LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted January 28, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 28, 2008 (edited) I would never buttkiss another David. It's against Team David law. Edited January 28, 2008 by DavidB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisa2004 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 So beacuse Hayden is doing 2 events that means we might get another guest at Eclipse?! Now THAT I like the sound of!!! Am I reading that right! Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbitfanatic Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Thanks for posting Showmasters because I always feel you know the right way to say things in a calm way. I think both Psychosis and DavidB need to read there replies to posts and understand how they come across. No matter how you word it it does come across like your picking on people. It seems that anyone that disagrees you try and hound them off the board. I will be going to both events I don't have a gold pass I've never got a gold pass. I don't have that amount of money to spend in one go and have to spread the cost. I go to cons because they are cons for programes I like yes cons are different. I have gone to some signing events because of guests. I use to book to go to MK months in advance just because I liked it going to the event and then guests kept getting cancelled all the time or accounced for different events instead. I enjoy events and going to them but at the end of the day people still go to most of them because of the guests going after all you do want something for your money. Showmasters I know you guys want to sell the last of your tickets so we can get a 6th guest so how is this going to help you do this. I am quite angry about this because it seems that it's a big **** take it doesn't seem that it will save that much money if people don't buy the last of the eclipse tickets because of this. I love heroes but agree you need to select more of a range of guests from different films and programs and I know it can be hard to get some guests and new ones as well. I just don't feel that this seems to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I have read them. There's nothing rude in them. No attacking members. Just discussing, fair and logically, the topic at hand. If disagreeing with someone's complaint means we're 'picking on them' and 'trying to hound them off the board' then so be it. It's a public board and they need to accept that there will be public discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted January 29, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 29, 2008 Yup, we can't do much about the way certain people choose to interpret or read our responses. Stuff like 'tone' etc is often in the reader's head, and unless I post something like 'f*ck off, you're wrong, you're talking sh!t, shut up!', I'm not attacking anyone or being rude. I've tried to present my argument/s in a fair and sensible manner - something that some others haven't chosen to do. I think accusations of being a 'butt kisser' is more on the level of someone 'picking on' someone else. As long as discussion stays within the rules of the board, there's absolutely no harm in it. People shouldn't get so worked up if a couple of people disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swan Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Eclipse has now lost its exclusiveness. I agree with those of you who are disappointment that these two guests are now attending a con one week before. And Psychosis and DavidB are like dogs with a bone, they just don't give up, and never seem willing to see the other side of the coin. It gets so darned tiresome. Just watch them have a go at me now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lams9999 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 especially as there is far more to a convention than just getting the guests autos and photo shoots, and for those of you have not been to a convention before, you will soon see that it's a lot of fun. I completely agree with you on this one Jason ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fray101 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Just curious - were any of the people who think that Eclipse has somehow been devalued for them at LFCC? Sure, given that Hayden's already made one appearance in the UK it's possible that Manchester won't be as crazy as Earls Court. Little could be! But certainly, I'd much prefer the opportunity to meet her in the more controlled atmosphere that a weekend like Eclipse will present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Eclipse has now lost its exclusiveness. I agree with those of you who are disappointment that these two guests are now attending a con one week before. And Psychosis and DavidB are like dogs with a bone, they just don't give up, and never seem willing to see the other side of the coin. It gets so darned tiresome. Just watch them have a go at me now! We haven't had 'a go at' anyone. I wish those people who think we're malicious/picking on people/having a go at people/trying to hound people off the board could point out where we've attacked people personally. As a matter of fact, the only attacking has been towards us, and not from us. I add, I do see the other side of the coin. I just don't agree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elullatook Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I agree with swan........this was something really special and that has diminished slightly. I feel pleased for the people who could not make Eclipse but sad for others .....especially when they can not voice disappointment with out getting heads bitten off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Again, please point out where 'heads were bitten off'. I'm really interested to see where David and I personally attacked people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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