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Guest Cancellation Jacqueline McKenzie


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It was always going to look weird having them announce and cancel on the same day though.

 

Showmasters have told people not to go on the other forum and write stuff about it etc. They're not encouraging people to blame anyone or whatever - it was simply a case of explaining the situation as people would've thought it a bit odd.

 

It would never have been as simple as announcing that and expecting no backlash unfortunately.

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It was always going to look weird having them announce and cancel on the same day though.

 

Showmasters have told people not to go on the other forum and write stuff about it etc. They're not encouraging people to blame anyone or whatever - it was simply a case of explaining the situation as people would've thought it a bit odd.

 

It would never have been as simple as announcing that and expecting no backlash unfortunately.

Exactly my good man. The time factor was the big problem, and people will always ask questions. I find it has been professionally handled, and there has been some reluctance by Jason to provide information. Look at his posts and you will see that they have been preceeded by many posts from us lot.

 

At the end of the day this has happened in a way that is unfortunate. At least the two guests are willing to come back to another event down the line with SM.

 

Under normal circumstances of a guest cancellation, I do agree that the brief message posted by vampireslyer3 would have been enough. However, a situation has arisen where an explanation has saved an organiser getting grief from posters as Jason & Co would have received if he hadn't posted why it had happened.

 

Let's hope that the two guests can pop over the pond next Spring, Summer or Autumn.

Edited by AJ Jones
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Does anybody ( maybe you Jason ) know how this will affect Marina Sirtis's appearance at the C12 - wasn't she also at the other show this weekend ?

 

 

knowing Marina like i do i think she would tell them to ±%@!!! look at the contract as i am shore there is no exclusion clause in her contract

 

well thats what i think she would say

 

i like Marina she is cool :(

 

jason

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I don't understand the problem. Surely if the 'other organizer' had cancelled their return flights, then Showmasters would have had to pay for new flights, which would have been fair, cause both organizers would then have paid half the air travel each. That's fair isn't it?

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Whatever has happened, I hardly feel it is professional of ANY organiser to talk about the ins and outs of why guests have cancelled, especially when talking about alleged threats/comments by another organiser.

 

This is supposed to be a company running events, not a 15 year old going "We didn't do anything wrong. Someone else said something to someone and now they can't come so it's not our fault." Any adult would just announce the cancellation, apologise for any disappointment the fans may feel, and be done with it.

 

I'm not taking sides here, I just don't think this is being dealt with in the manner it should be.

 

And then if they didn't give an explanation, they'd be eaten alive too. Can't win :(

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i would also like to point out that the guests contacted us to attend our show not us contacting them

 

we also understood that there was no exclusion clause in there contract so we felt it was ok to go ahead and add them to the line up

 

Depending on how far you wanted to take it, you could prob get your lawyers and the guests agents/lawyers to demand to look at the contracts with the other event, and if theres def no exclusion clause, might be possible to take the other event to court for loss of earnings! They might learn then to just be nice and get along with other events as they lost out event wise in no way with the announcements being after the event closing!

 

 

Also, I would like to comment on a previous comment that said that yesterday Jacqueline and the 4400

guests were badly considered and had an awful time. That is completely false, they just laughed all the time, had a lot of fun with the Eureka guests,

 

This is true. Sunday the 4400 guests and eureka guests were bouncing a baloon to each other over the dividers, writing things on 8x10's etc and putting on the other shows side and generally having fun. They were all smiling all day that I saw. No idea about Saturday though.

 

 

I just would like to hear what "the other organizer" has to say... I think he would have no reason to do what you said he did...

 

Unfortunetly I doubt we'll hear something from the other side. There was a thread started on their forums which was promptly deleated, and its turning into a repeat of the last time something similar happened.

Their stance is often say nothing, crack down on any mention and bury their heads till it blows over.

 

I don't understand the problem. Surely if the 'other organizer' had cancelled their return flights, then Showmasters would have had to pay for new flights, which would have been fair, cause both organizers would then have paid half the air travel each. That's fair isn't it?

 

Thing is, their flights were probably non-refundable, so even if they cancelled and SM paid for new ones, the others would be loosing the money for a wasted flight still. And who would likely get the backlash from that..the guests most likely.

Plus theres always the argument "so and so booked so many months in advance and got flights for £xxx, so and so had to book flights a week before the flying date so had to pay £xxx which was £xxx more etc.."

When it comes to buisness, theres no end of ways to argue about money.

Edited by crippsy_99
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Thing is, their flights were probably non-refundable, so even if they cancelled and SM paid for new ones, the others would be loosing the money for a wasted flight still.

 

 

True - though that would just make it even more petty that they'd even threatened to cancel their flights as it really would benefit nobody at all! The other organisers wouldn't even get any money back out of it.

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i would also like to point out that the guests contacted us to attend our show not us contacting them

 

we also understood that there was no exclusion clause in there contract so we felt it was ok to go ahead and add them to the line up

 

Depending on how far you wanted to take it, you could prob get your lawyers and the guests agents/lawyers to demand to look at the contracts with the other event, and if theres def no exclusion clause, might be possible to take the other event to court for loss of earnings! They might learn then to just be nice and get along with other events as they lost out event wise in no way with the announcements being after the event closing!

 

 

Also, I would like to comment on a previous comment that said that yesterday Jacqueline and the 4400

guests were badly considered and had an awful time. That is completely false, they just laughed all the time, had a lot of fun with the Eureka guests,

 

This is true. Sunday the 4400 guests and eureka guests were bouncing a baloon to each other over the dividers, writing things on 8x10's etc and putting on the other shows side and generally having fun. They were all smiling all day that I saw. No idea about Saturday though.

 

 

I just would like to hear what "the other organizer" has to say... I think he would have no reason to do what you said he did...

 

Unfortunetly I doubt we'll hear something from the other side. There was a thread started on their forums which was promptly deleated, and its turning into a repeat of the last time something similar happened.

Their stance is often say nothing, crack down on any mention and bury their heads till it blows over.

 

I don't understand the problem. Surely if the 'other organizer' had cancelled their return flights, then Showmasters would have had to pay for new flights, which would have been fair, cause both organizers would then have paid half the air travel each. That's fair isn't it?

 

Thing is, their flights were probably non-refundable, so even if they cancelled and SM paid for new ones, the others would be loosing the money for a wasted flight still. And who would likely get the backlash from that..the guests most likely.

Plus theres always the argument "so and so booked so many months in advance and got flights for £xxx, so and so had to book flights a week before the flying date so had to pay £xxx which was £xxx more etc.."

When it comes to buisness, theres no end of ways to argue about money.

I don't know how you or anyone would know if the flights were refundable or not, except the person that paid for them! It's a complete unknown but it's a possibility they weren't refundable, just as its a possibility that they were and it would have made it fairer for each organizer to pay half each. I'd hate to pay for guests to come over only to discover that I've helped fund their trip to another show and the other show were only paying their fee and not paying any airfare at all. If Showmasters had offered to pay half then that would have been fair, and it's a shame they weren't given the opportunity.

 

However I don't understand why they weren't given the opportunity. The time to offer to pay half is BEFORE a guest is announced, not after you've been found out! If I'd paid for them to come over I would have welcomed Showmasters offer to contribute to the airfare but I would have expected them to contact me before the guests were announced.

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I don't know how you or anyone would know if the flights were refundable or not, except the person that paid for them! It's a complete unknown but it's a possibility they weren't refundable, just as its a possibility that they were and it would have made it fairer for each organizer to pay half each. I'd hate to pay for guests to come over only to discover that I've helped fund their trip to another show and the other show were only paying their fee and not paying any airfare at all. If Showmasters had offered to pay half then that would have been fair, and it's a shame they weren't given the opportunity.

 

I said PROBABLY not refundable..not they def were..or did you miss that bit?

Do you ever fly? If so, how many of your flights are non-refundable?

I know a lot of people who book flights for something, cant go, then lose the money because 99% of the time the flights are non-refundable..I'd imagine long haul would be worse than most for that..

 

And Jason already said SM would offer to help with flight costs:

we were happy to pay towards the flights costs but that was not an option give to us

 

jason

Sounds to me from that the other organiser wasnt even interested.

Edited by crippsy_99
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Actually what SM said is that they were happy to pay towards flights, that does not sound like an offer to me! That sounds like they would have paid if asked!

 

I'm with choc1 on this, any issues such as these should have been ironed out before not after announcement.

Edited by GondorGirl
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I don't know how you or anyone would know if the flights were refundable or not, except the person that paid for them! It's a complete unknown but it's a possibility they weren't refundable, just as its a possibility that they were and it would have made it fairer for each organizer to pay half each. I'd hate to pay for guests to come over only to discover that I've helped fund their trip to another show and the other show were only paying their fee and not paying any airfare at all. If Showmasters had offered to pay half then that would have been fair, and it's a shame they weren't given the opportunity.

 

I said PROBABLY not refundable..not they def were..or did you miss that bit?

Do you ever fly? If so, how many of your flights are non-refundable?

I know a lot of people who book flights for something, cant go, then lose the money because 99% of the time the flights are non-refundable..I'd imagine long haul would be worse than most for that..

 

And Jason already said SM did offer to help with flight costs:

we were happy to pay towards the flights costs but that was not an option give to us

 

jason

Sounds to me from that the offer was made, but refused.

Sorry didn't mean to get your back up! I seemed to have irritated you. I'm clearly not very good at this and am reminded why I don't post much and usually lurk! I would loved to have seen these 2 on Sunday, but now they won't be there, I'm simply trying to work out why. If these 2 organizers had spoken to each other nicely it would have worked out.

 

I know Jason already said they offered, because my last post refers to it, it doesn't make sense. It is not an option that the other organiser should be give to them retrospectively, SM should offer it the outset of negotiations. It sounds like the organizer had no idea the guests were thinking of attending Collectormania at the weekend. But if SM had offered to pay towards flight costs, that would have been a clue that SM wanted them to appear at Collectormania! So I don't understand his comment.

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And let us not forget some of Jason's initial posts following the cancellation.

 

Point 1: The two guests involved approached Showmasters.

 

Point 2: As far he was concerned, there was no exclusion clause in the contract.

 

Point 3: At no time were Showmasters given the option of paying towards travelling costs.

 

So, with no exclusion clause conveyed to Jason and Showmasters, and the two guests approaching Showmasters, why shouldn't they be advertised? If these are the facts as conveyed by Jason, in contract law Showmasters have not broken or breached any contract.

 

So, any talk of a gentleman's agreement or confirming with the other organiser is not applicable if Showmasters are approached and supplied with information that a guest or guests is/are available to attend an event. Is it to be like a nightclub where proof of age is now required?

 

At the end of the day, something has happened and Jason has taken the rather unneeded step of explaining to us fans and potential attendees exactly why he announced a guest was coming and then not within a matter of hours. He had enough respect for us to put his and Showmasters' reputation on the line by speaking out.

 

So, any people who have popped onto the boards to chastise him, although their perfect right to do so in a society of free speech, I personally think are out of order.

 

The question I ask to those people is this..

 

If he hadn't given a reason, would you have chastised him for false advertising etc etc etc?

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Also, I would like to comment on a previous comment that said that yesterday Jacqueline and the 4400

guests were badly considered and had an awful time. That is completely false, they just laughed all the time, had a lot of fun with the Eureka guests, they were attending the Eureka's talk, going to the Cosplay masquerade and so on, they had a lot of fun. Otherwise why would Jacqui have come back at this event ?

 

Lams, I think you were talkin bout my post and you've got the wrong end of the stick, sorry! When I said they were horribly treated, I didn't mean in that way... I meant in the sense of sort of promoting them, and making sure 4400 guests would turn up to the show fr reasons other than the guests, that kinda thing. I just thought (use marina as an example cos I don't watch 4400) Shes a trek guest, and the only thing trek in the show was her, and a talk with like 20 people watching. On the site, there was just a lil pic showing she was going. No trek stalls, nothing. At CM, I guess she'll be a lot more busy cos trek fans will know there'll be a lot more there to see and do. The 4400 guests were playing with balloons, yes, but wouldn't that be cos they were a bit bored?

There were anime guests there, and they had lots of talks, an anime cinema, loadsa stalls, drawing etc....

 

I meant they were treated badly in the sense its basically an anime show and the sci fi guests were out of place and slow compared to how they would be at CM. And to be threatened of being stuck in a country with no way getting home? ffs!

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Sorry didn't mean to get your back up! I seemed to have irritated you. I'm clearly not very good at this and am reminded why I don't post much and usually lurk!

 

No worrys, and am sorry too if I sounded irritable.

Ive got caffiene withdrawl and I usually have a set routine every day which I havnt managed to do today so am probably a bit tempremental lol

So no need to go back into lurking! And I could see what you were getting at.

 

The thing with SM offering to pay flight costs first is, if the guests approached them they might not have even know about it. For all we know, someone could have given them a showmasters leaflet on saturday, the guests mentioned to their agents in the evening, agents then contact SM sunday, work something out, then all seems ok for an announcement in the evening/early hours or something similar, but we'll never know anyway so no point giving it deep thought lol

Edited by crippsy_99
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Excellent guest. However it's going to be tight now getting a R1 boxset of The 4400 as there aren't enough days left. I mention the 'R1 boxset' because the season 3 boxset on R1 has extras but the R2 version dosen't.

 

Aaarrgghh!

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sunspeed, you've missed the whole point of the threadl She was announced then cancelled later in the day.

 

 

Oh and I think both marina and jon frakes live in london now so she won't need flights lol.

Jason- I can very much see her telling them where to go! Shes great is Marina ^_^

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sunspeed, you've missed the whole point of the threadl She was announced then cancelled later in the day.

 

 

Oh and I think both marina and jon frakes live in london now so she won't need flights lol.

Jason- I can very much see her telling them where to go! Shes great is Marina ^_^

I apologise as I have only just read some of the posts on pages 3, 4 and page 5. I only looked at page 1 before making my reply.

 

I looked at the thread title and thought it was a mistake ('guest cancellation'). Then I realised she had cancelled.

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Although I will say that it would probably be best before branding either party to hear the whole account.

Agreed, but that ain't gonna happen.

It would be illegal of the other organizers to retain travel home unless they had a signed contract stating that something like going to another event was breaking their agreement. So it could be inferred that the guests did sign such a stipulation in their contracts, if not then the other organizers could be brought up on charges of kidnapping or the guests need to get better lawyers!!! ^_^

It would certainly be a breach of contract by the other promoter if there were no exclusion clauses in the contract, but I don't think you can infer from his alleged threat that such exclusion clauses were in the contract. Some people bully, and some people are susceptible to being bullied. And even if it wasn't deliberate bullying, it could be a loss of temper and demanding/threatening that people do what he thought/wanted them to do/be restricted to, rather than what they actually signed to do/be restricted to. [what a jolly mangling of the English language B) ]

You have to remember that the guests are in a foreign country, and much as some of us might feel that in their place we wouldn't take this crap, one can sympathise with the view that they may be forced to arrange their own flights back at their own expense, then later have to sue the promoter, again at their own expense, having to employ a lawyer the other side of the Atlantic from where they live, and having to make time later to come over for a court case (possibly impacting their career), and if they win and get damages and their expenses back, maybe the other promoter declares himself bankrupt and they end up out of pocket. Probably easier just to gracefully withdraw (and tell all your friends and colleagues about it when you get back home).

Yes, if the other promoter hadn't put an exclusion clause in his contract, or something that would allow him to recoup some of his expenses, then he should have just taken it on the chin, learned his lesson and not made the same mistake in future.

It's easy to say that we would have said "Either give me my flight ticket with a written undertaking it will not be cancelled, or a written reason why it will be cancelled, and if it is cancelled, I will sue you for breach of contract, exemplary damages, and costs, and I'll be sure to mention where to look up the court transcripts when I'm sending out my annual Christmas card to all my friends in the industry." but given all the aggro of having to sue, it's easier just to walk away. You can have the best lawyers in the world, but if the hassle is large and the returns aren't guaranteed, it will be easier to just leave it.

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