AJ Jones Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 You're bitching at us for standing up for OUR rights! We have the right to have a working phone. We have the right to receive vital mail. We have the right to run our own businesses. Doesn't matter though, huh? Oh, it definitely does matter. 100% matters. But, on the flip side it matters to people like Dr Evil that his future and present is secure. It is a catch 22 situation, and both sides should be respected. No one's feelings or situation is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) I completely understand. Wild stab in the dark here, how many people are post men? 1 in 1000? Too high? Too low? Let's run with that. If it is 1 in 1000, for the sake of Dr Evil's monetary situation, 999 people are losing out. Edited October 10, 2007 by Psychosis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Evil Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) You're bitching at us for standing up for OUR rights! We have the right to have a working phone. We have the right to receive vital mail. We have the right to run our own businesses. Doesn't matter though, huh? and i have a right to go on strike...thank god for democracy....AJ Jones is the only one here not looking at the whole situiation selfishly! Edited October 10, 2007 by Dr Evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Jones Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I completely understand. Wild stab in the dark here, how many people are post men? 1 in 1000? Too high? Too low? Let's run with that. If it is 1 in 1000, for the sake of Dr Evil's monetary situation, 999 people are losing out. 1 in 1000 losing money is wrong as much as 999 in 1000 being inconvenienced. No one should be suffering, but the real villains of the peace are the senior management with their huge payrises treating staff like something they have stood in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 1 in 1000 not getting as big a rise as they want is nowhere near as bad as 999 losing money/suffering in some way. If the 1 is more important than the 999 we wouldn't be living in a democracy. Or perhaps we're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Jones Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 1 in 1000 not getting as big a rise as they want is nowhere near as bad as 999 losing money/suffering in some way. If the 1 is more important than the 999 we wouldn't be living in a democracy. Or perhaps we're not. This isn't only about a payrise, which in itself isn't big but being made smaller by the way it is being offered. It is also about their pensions being screwed around with, working hours not being paid for but exoected to be done and many other things. The 1 isn't more important than the 999. But then the 999 are not more important than the 1. Why should the 1 and it's family suffer when 999 do not. Is that right? I have a pretty good idea that, if the shoe were ont he other foot and you were the Postie, you would be sticking up for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Evil Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 1 in 1000 not getting as big a rise as they want is nowhere near as bad as 999 losing money/suffering in some way. If the 1 is more important than the 999 we wouldn't be living in a democracy. Or perhaps we're not. i hope one day you don't have to stand up for yourself...and have to make sacrifices for your cause! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrazyKid197 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Sorry, wrong way round Still pants though, as a pay rise, and wrong that certain sectors can't 'express' themselves. And parts, fine. Fluids? We don't seem to be getting either so it's not like it matters anyway And yes, yes it is. However personally I was supposed to get a 5% increase (to do with how close you are to being qualified. Could the NHS organise this? Payroll haven't sent my payslip to the right place since March. Once it turned up at my parents house.) Parts/fluids *shrugs* You can't squick me. What part of the NHS are you stuck working in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Yes! The sacrifices you are making is EVERYONE ELSE. I will NEVER be selfish enough to hurt thousands of people for the sake of myself. It's beyond my level of comprehension. The pay you're getting and the rises you are getting is better than that of people in Far more deserving positions. I don't understand why you, whose skills amount to walking/driving around and shoving letters through doors for most of the working day, think you deserve it so much more than people like nurses. The nurses aren't striking because they know that they provide an essential service. Apparently you do not afford that same consideration to others. What you're talking about is NOT a sacrifice, it's just deliberately hurting other people. A sacrifice would be accepting the money problems for the sake of others. And in that respect, no, you are not willing to make sacrifices. f you're not willing to do your job competently, step aside and allow someone else to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Evil Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah yeah yeah...whatever you say! Edited October 10, 2007 by Dr Evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sazzra Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Sorry, wrong way round Still pants though, as a pay rise, and wrong that certain sectors can't 'express' themselves. And parts, fine. Fluids? We don't seem to be getting either so it's not like it matters anyway And yes, yes it is. However personally I was supposed to get a 5% increase (to do with how close you are to being qualified. Could the NHS organise this? Payroll haven't sent my payslip to the right place since March. Once it turned up at my parents house.) Parts/fluids *shrugs* You can't squick me. What part of the NHS are you stuck working in? Mental Health (so in the right place!), a clinical systems trainer (I bully clinicians into using computers). And don't get me started on payroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosfer2 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) According to The Guardian, postal workers receive £323/week. That's far more than I earn. If I was earning that amount I would show gratitude to my employers instead of being lazy and workshy. Edited October 10, 2007 by nosfer2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambourne Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 You're bitching at us for standing up for OUR rights! We have the right to have a working phone. We have the right to receive vital mail. We have the right to run our own businesses. Doesn't matter though, huh? and i have a right to go on strike...thank god for democracy....AJ Jones is the only one here not looking at the whole situiation selfishly! You are also looking at the situation selfishly though. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah yeah yeah...whatever you say! You were fighting your corner respectiable and maturley until that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Jones Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 According to The Guardian, postal workers receive �323/week. That's far more than I earn. If I was earning that amount I would show gratitude to my employers instead of being lazy and workshy. If you trust what the newspapers say, then I think you may be being a tad naive. The media will always glorify, inflate and downright tell porkies if it means selling newsrags. However, this "debate" is just going around in circles. I can see both sides of the coin and feel that the wrong person is being blamed for the actions of all at Royal Mail. I know he is the only one on here admitting to being an employee of Royal Mail, but only Dr Evil 100% knows what it is like for the Royal Mail. I empathise with all people effected by these strikes, but I personally felt that Dr Evil was getting a bit of a raw deal. I hope that you all get your expected mail, and that Dr Evil gets what he thinks is fair in a world that is far from it. I feel my views have been aired, and thus will not be debating the postal strike again as it has become a tad stressful. Have a peaceful evening. Wil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosis Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah yeah yeah...whatever you say! How immature. I see now why you think this is okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Evil Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah yeah yeah...whatever you say! How immature. I see now why you think this is okay. perhaps if you changed the record rather than repeating yourself with the same stuff...its clear you don't like people striking,its clear you believe people should be treated badly,its clear you believe people shouldn't have a right to stand up for themselves against bullying managers... According to The Guardian, postal workers receive �323/week. That's far more than I earn. If I was earning that amount I would show gratitude to my employers instead of being lazy and workshy. If you trust what the newspapers say, then I think you may be being a tad naive. The media will always glorify, inflate and downright tell porkies if it means selling newsrags. However, this "debate" is just going around in circles. I can see both sides of the coin and feel that the wrong person is being blamed for the actions of all at Royal Mail. I know he is the only one on here admitting to being an employee of Royal Mail, but only Dr Evil 100% knows what it is like for the Royal Mail. I empathise with all people effected by these strikes, but I personally felt that Dr Evil was getting a bit of a raw deal. I hope that you all get your expected mail, and that Dr Evil gets what he thinks is fair in a world that is far from it. I feel my views have been aired, and thus will not be debating the postal strike again as it has become a tad stressful. Have a peaceful evening. Wil respect for the voice of reason! Edited October 11, 2007 by Dr Evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosfer2 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The managers are simply asking postal workers to actually do the job they are (handsomely) paid for. Claiming overtime for work that is done during scheduled working hours is just one of the so-called "Spanish practices" that they are trying to stamp out. And if you can't see that the very action of going on strike is harming the Royal Mail and jeopardising its very existence then I feel very sorry for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Evil Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The managers are simply asking postal workers to actually do the job they are (handsomely) paid for. Claiming overtime for work that is done during scheduled working hours is just one of the so-called "Spanish practices" that they are trying to stamp out. And if you can't see that the very action of going on strike is harming the Royal Mail and jeopardising its very existence then I feel very sorry for you. your just quoting Adam Crozier from one of the tabloids....in fact most of the people get most of their facts from the media....and we believe everything they tell us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Evil Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) You're bitching at us for standing up for OUR rights! We have the right to have a working phone. We have the right to receive vital mail. We have the right to run our own businesses. Doesn't matter though, huh? and i have a right to go on strike...thank god for democracy....AJ Jones is the only one here not looking at the whole situiation selfishly! You are also looking at the situation selfishly though. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah yeah yeah...whatever you say! You were fighting your corner respectiable and maturley until that post. yes...but i've never stood a chance from the beginning to get my point across...when the same people keep repeating themselves over and over again!....its just going around in circles. Edited October 11, 2007 by Dr Evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosfer2 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The managers are simply asking postal workers to actually do the job they are (handsomely) paid for. Claiming overtime for work that is done during scheduled working hours is just one of the so-called "Spanish practices" that they are trying to stamp out. And if you can't see that the very action of going on strike is harming the Royal Mail and jeopardising its very existence then I feel very sorry for you. your just quoting Adam Crozier from one of the tabloids....in fact most of the people get most of their facts from the media....and we believe everything they tell us! The Guardian is hardly a tabloid, in fact of all the newspapers they are the most likely to sympathise with striking workers. The fact that they do not seem to support this particular strike speaks volumes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyT Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 According to The Guardian, postal workers receive �323/week. That's far more than I earn. If I was earning that amount I would show gratitude to my employers instead of being lazy and workshy. That'll be £323 gross per week; take off tax and NI and it'll be about £250 - actually probably less because there will also be pension contributions to be deducted. Whether that's more than you earn or not, there are a finite number of people who will do the job for that money; walking the streets in all weathers carrying a heavy bag isn't exactly glamourous. In fact, if it's much more than what you earn, why don't you sign up as a postie? I believe that unions should be banned. People should work for what they're paid for, and if they dont like it, they should leave and find something else, just like in every other private industry. Striking is simply unacceptable! You are aware of the whole history of the struggle for workers' rights and the quite appalling working conditions before the right to unionise was legal? Take away unions and the right to strike, and what is to prevent the bosses from imposing unpleasant changes? The ordinary working person is barely going to be able to sue them for breach of contract, and if there are no fetters to the power of management, all businesses will be imposing harsh conditions on their staff in the quest for reduced costs and competitiveness. No good saying "if you don't like it, go and work elsewhere" if every industry is busy screwing its employees into the ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jael001 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I do understand what you're staying Tommy T, but this is a new millenium, the specific problems that were faced back when unions were first legalised are no longer relevant. The world of private industry does not have unions and its a case of having to treat your employees properly or you won't have any. Every industry is NOT "screwing its employees into the ground" as you put it. It is about competition, in industry and in jobs. Employers have to offer better deals for their employees in order to attract better employees. Maybe if there was serious competition to the Royal Mail, none of this would be happening. Maybe that's the solution. I'm having a hard time with my conflicting feelings over this. Yes of course people should get the pay and benefits they've been promised. But, I truly and honestly do not believe that striking is the way to go about getting that. Why should it be ok for people in just about every other industry to suffer because 1 industry's workers decide they're not happy, for whatever reason? There has got to be some other way to work around the problems. Thousands of businesses are suffering, who knows how many people are suffering through non-receipt of money, bills, important documentation etc? If the strike had simply been a couple of days then maybe the public would have had more sympathy for the issues raised, but it's beyond a joke now. Weeks and week's of disruption, with already a huge backlog of mail that will take a long time to clear. And now another week coming of strikes, albeit not all at the same place at the same time, but still disruptive to UK industry. And who knows when it's going to end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarina Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 However, this "debate" is just going around in circles. I can see both sides of the coin and feel that the wrong person is being blamed for the actions of all at Royal Mail. I know he is the only one on here admitting to being an employee of Royal Mail, but only Dr Evil 100% knows what it is like for the Royal Mail. I empathise with all people effected by these strikes, but I personally felt that Dr Evil was getting a bit of a raw deal. I hope that you all get your expected mail, and that Dr Evil gets what he thinks is fair in a world that is far from it. I feel my views have been aired, and thus will not be debating the postal strike again as it has become a tad stressful. Have a peaceful evening. Wil Thank you providing us with one of the few unbiased POV's in this thread and the shown effort to explain the reasoning behind both parties. Most people discussing the current postal situation here all speak from their own personal interest and knowledge without having full insight in the other person's circumstances. After listing the same arguments again and again you get stuck in a vicious circle. There is no use in trying to persuade the other party to think otherwise, only to to try and see it from their POV to hopefully understand a bit where they're coming from. What other use is there for this discussion on this particular forum? It will not end the strike or gain the requested changes for the workers from the Royal Mail. It will also not help the cause of getting any pre-bought tickets for the convention in time, which is how the discussion started in the first place. So yeah, what 'AJ Jones' said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosfer2 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 According to The Guardian, postal workers receive �323/week. That's far more than I earn. If I was earning that amount I would show gratitude to my employers instead of being lazy and workshy. That'll be £323 gross per week; take off tax and NI and it'll be about £250 - actually probably less because there will also be pension contributions to be deducted. Whether that's more than you earn or not, there are a finite number of people who will do the job for that money; walking the streets in all weathers carrying a heavy bag isn't exactly glamourous. In fact, if it's much more than what you earn, why don't you sign up as a postie? Because anyone can be a postie whereas what I do is much more specialised - I teach in a language school and I love my job. Money isn't as important as job satisfaction for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Evil Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) According to The Guardian, postal workers receive �323/week. That's far more than I earn. If I was earning that amount I would show gratitude to my employers instead of being lazy and workshy. That'll be £323 gross per week; take off tax and NI and it'll be about £250 - actually probably less because there will also be pension contributions to be deducted. Whether that's more than you earn or not, there are a finite number of people who will do the job for that money; walking the streets in all weathers carrying a heavy bag isn't exactly glamourous. In fact, if it's much more than what you earn, why don't you sign up as a postie? Because anyone can be a postie whereas what I do is much more specialised - I teach in a language school and I love my job. Money isn't as important as job satisfaction for me. so you live to work....rather than work to live? i use to think just like you when i was younger....more fool i! Edited October 11, 2007 by Dr Evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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