A Genuine Suggestion

[AJ Jones]

I appreciate the fact that there are some people on here who are unhappy at ceratin aspects of recent events, guest cancellations, etc etc etc. I can fully understand, as I am sure we all can - and that includes Showmasters - that the fans would like to meet the people they watch on the screen, and when they do they would like it to be the fairytale experience they have imagined in their head. We all have different tastes and expectations in life. But this is where some of the problems begin.

 

I will try and explain...

 

With non-convention like setups like Collectormania, London Film & Comic Con and numerous events I will not name out of respect due to them not being Showmasters events, you will always be running up against it to please 75% of the attendees, let alone all of them. I remember when James Marsters turned up at CM a few years back and I got there very early to find that I had no hope of seeing him. Was I upset or gutted? Sure, I was disappointed, but I managed to turn that disappointment into happiness by meeting numerous other guests whilst not in a huge queue for James.

 

So, if we as fans keep in mind that the bigger names will always pull in bigger crowd numbers, then maybe hoping for the best, but planning for the worst, is something that will minimise disappointment.

 

People will always find fault with events. I know I have left some events, no matter who is organising them, a little disappointed for one reason or another. But, this is where we all need to stop and think about how we can make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

I have no affiliation with Showmasters, but having helped organise and run smaller events in my home town, I realise how hard they are to organise and run. Showmasters themselves have fallen on their proverbial swords and admitted their shortcomings regarding recent issues, and that is something rarely seen in business these days.

 

But what I have to ask alot of people is this, if you have worked or do work in a customer orientated job, would you rather someone with a grievance be "in your face", or seeking a solution through working with you? Do you want someone shouting at you, or asking you for your help to rectify the situation? If you are being honest with yourself, I have a strong feeling that it maybe the peaceful option.

 

There are posters on this board, and other boards, who will always seek to "kick off" because they are behind a computer screen and not face to face. Someone in this C12 forum section suggested violence if some comments had been made to his/her face that were posted on the thread. Quite easy to post from a distance.

 

So, what is the point of this thread?

 

Simply put, those people who have issues should consider working with Showmasters to rectify them rather than "getting vocal" on the message boards. You will probably find Showmasters staff a lot more amiable to help if this was the case.

 

Remember one last thing as well. Someone has recently suggested that Showmasters have tried to expand and thus forget where they came from and let older events suffer. To this I say this...aren't we the ones who have asked for numerous guests, different locations, photoshoots usually only done at full weekend hotel based conventions, guest talks ets? So, if blame is being apportioned, maybe some of us should keep in mind that "demands" made on this forum may have lead to Showmasters "expansion and stretching of resources" so to say.

 

These events are for us to indulge ourselves meeting our heroes (no pun intended), idols, icons and favourite actors, actresses, directors etc...let us keep indulging ourselves rather than stressing ourselves out.

 

By the way, I am sure someone will come back and say I am being arrogant, or kissing Showmaster's rear ends, or that I work for Showmasters...Simply put, I am trying to help people and have no definite plans to attend a Showmasters event until 2008. So, please do not waste your time saying I am any of those or anything else...unless you are saying I am nice.

 

I hope you all have a wonderful time at CM, LFACC etc...it is why we are fans

 

Wil S Jones

Edited October 7, 2007 by AJ Jones

[The Dork Lord]

Hear hear! I'm fed up of hearing from all the complainers and whingers that just have to have their say.

 

We've all left events disappointed about one thing or another. Well, that's life. Full of disappointments and you're delusional if you think otherwise. I prefer to focus on the positive. Take C11 for example. I could dwell on the fact that the queue for James Marsters was long and he wasn't doing personalisations and I seriously didn't like the attitude that was being dished out by some of the crew members running his queue, or I could take away the fact that I met a whole bunch of great guests including Terry Jones, Rene Auberjonois, Struan Rodger, Andrew Hayden Smith, Chris Rankin, the list goes on! I enjoy these events and I'm not about to stop going because one or two guests have to cancel (which is not Showmasters fault and usually isn't the guests fault either).

[michaelrc123]

well said

 

i think we all need to remember that showmasters are real people and are not magicians and so are the celebs they get. We just need to look at the whole picture not the minor points that really in the whole scheme of things is quite trivial. look at the world around us.

 

Mike

[DavidB]

showmasters are real people and are not magicians

 

Well you just ruined the illusion now

[michaelrc123]

showmasters are real people and are not magicians

 

Well you just ruined the illusion now

 

 

Ok davidB what i actually meant they are human but they have superhuman qualities - real life Heroes :)

 

didnt mean to panic you there!

Edited October 7, 2007 by michaelrc123

[nicky]

people who have issues should consider working with Showmasters to rectify them rather than "getting vocal" on the message boards.

I think it's just easier and quicker for people to post on here. At the events SM staff might be too busy to hear what people might wanna say and I've heard its hard to catch them on the phones or by email. And besides, the msg boards are here for discussion and SM admin do post here to answer questions so its easier for most people and takes less effort. People likely wanna voice their concerns on the boards cos they want other people's thoughts on the matter. Surly the boards are here for that reason too?

 

I don't have anything bad to say here but I don't think it's right to tell people to not complain or "whinge" or to not have a bad opinion...that's just very much like a dictatorship*. There are already things we cant talk about on here and posts do get closed/removed and big brother (the mods...or is that gods if the SM avatar is anything to go by?) is always monitoring us but I think telling people that shouldn't complain is going a bit far. Everyone likes freedom of speech and people's concerns should not be silenced or supressed.

 

*See George Orwell's "1984" or Equilibrium, V For Vendetta or even the Stargate movie.

Edited October 8, 2007 by nicky

[Raylenth]

people who have issues should consider working with Showmasters to rectify them rather than "getting vocal" on the message boards.

I think it's just easier and quicker for people to post on here. At the events SM staff might be too busy to hear what people might wanna say and I've heard its hard to catch them on the phones or by email. And besides, the msg boards are here for discussion and SM admin do post here to answer questions so its easier for most people and takes less effort. People likely wanna voice their concerns on the boards cos they want other people's thoughts on the matter. Surly the boards are here for that reason too?

 

I don't have anything bad to say here but I don't think it's right to tell people to not complain or "whinge" or to not have a bad opinion...that's just very much like a dictatorship*. There are already things we cant talk about on here and posts do get closed/removed and big brother (the mods) is always monitoring us but I think telling people that shouldn't complain is going a bit far. Everyone likes freedom of speech and people's concerns should not be silenced or supressed.

 

*See George Orwell's "1984" or Equilibrium, V For Vendetta or even the Stargate movie.

 

Besides which, there isn't anything wrong with people complaining it's just how many of them do it that's wrong. Even if something had really peed you off you can still talk about it in a reasoned and polite way instead of just swearing and being obnoxious.

[nicky]

Even if something had really peed you off you can still talk about it in a reasoned and polite way instead of just swearing and being obnoxious.

I see your point but disgruntled customers (I'm not one) are always gonna do that. I've sure had my fair share of them and sure others have too.

 

Unforunately as long as a customer is upset I don't think much is gonna be done to stop them venting and I don't think anyone should take it personally if they do vent...

Edited October 8, 2007 by nicky

[AJ Jones]

Like anything else in life, people see and read things how they want to. I thought that I had clearly explained what I was suggesting and not telling people could do.

 

Just to pick up a few points:

 

1. I haven't suggested that people not post their frustrations on here. Far from it. I have just said that "getting vocal" (a polite way of saying "kicking off") may prove detrimental to their cause. I did not suggest speaking to SM at evetns as that would get nothing done there and then due to it being an event.

 

2. I have in no way told people what to do. I have merely suggested a way forward in taking issues up with SM staff.

 

But hey, there will always be someone who has an opininon and that is healthy. All my comments were, were suggestions and not orders. But, if people wish to continue posting how they do and possibly causing flaming issues between members, then so be it. That is their choice, and I respect a person who goes with how they feel. I just hope that posters do not get themselves into a stressed out state before an event and go on to not enjoy the event. It would be such a shame.

 

Wil

[nicky]

Sorry, Wil, didn't mean it that wayand I know you were just suggesting and not telling. I was just shooting from the hip and talking in a very broad sense as I know there are many people on these boards somewhere that have told others to stop moaning/whinging etc.

Edited October 8, 2007 by nicky

[AJ Jones]

Damn, you've ruined my revenge now. I had dispatched the flying monkies to get you. When they get there, please send them back.

 

[chris_mk]

 

So, what is the point of this thread?

 

 

Yep, I find myself asking that very thought. What actually IS the suggestion that you are trying to make?

[nicky]

I found myself thinking that too when I saw it was a very long post. I actually gave up reading after the first two lines as the actual suggestion wasn't there - my attention didn't hold. I then came back and speed read it until i came to that one bit about "What's the point of this thread?"

 

So if I said anything out of context or missed anything out you know why.

[Angela]

Boring

[MikeDonovan]

 

So, what is the point of this thread?

 

 

Yep, I find myself asking that very thought. What actually IS the suggestion that you are trying to make?

 

I agree it was a bit lengthy, but I think he's just trying to say "Stop randomly slagging SM off, and be a bit more productive"

Edited October 8, 2007 by MikeDonovan

[Too Tall]

 

So, what is the point of this thread?

 

 

Yep, I find myself asking that very thought. What actually IS the suggestion that you are trying to make?

I think the point that Wil is trying to make (which is a point I've tried to get across myself for years, but there are too many trolls that ignore it), is that you'll get a lot more out of SM by working with them and suggesting improvements in a polite way than you ever will by getting ar$ey and aggressive.

 

We all know what Wil is talking about. There is airing your views and being constructive and there is airing your views to try and make a point and make the show look bad. We've all seen the posts where they are completely non-constructive and the person is obviously just laying the boot in.

 

He's not saying people shouldn't complain, he's not saying that it's wrong to complain, he's not saying people don't have valid complaints. He's just suggesting that if people have negative things to post about the events then they're more likely to get a response from SM if they raise those conserns without getting agressive and making demands. I agree with him.

Edited October 8, 2007 by Too Tall

[chris_mk]

He's not saying people shouldn't complain, he's not saying that it's wrong to complain, he's not saying people don't have valid complaints. He's just suggesting that if people have negative things to post about the events then they're more likely to get a response from SM if they raise those conserns without getting agressive and making demands. I agree with him.

 

So in effect... he's saying what anyone with half an ounce of manners or common sense already knows? Hmmm... it's not much of a suggestion and it's too long to be read by the trolls who it's generally referring to.

[AJ Jones]

 

So, what is the point of this thread?

 

 

Yep, I find myself asking that very thought. What actually IS the suggestion that you are trying to make?

I think the point that Wil is trying to make (which is a point I've tried to get across myself for years, but there are too many trolls that ignore it), is that you'll get a lot more out of SM by working with them and suggesting improvements in a polite way than you ever will by getting ar$ey and aggressive.

 

We all know what Wil is talking about. There is airing your views and being constructive and there is airing your views to try and make a point and make the show look bad. We've all seen the posts where they are completely non-constructive and the person is obviously just laying the boot in.

 

He's not saying people shouldn't complain, he's not saying that it's wrong to complain, he's not saying people don't have valid complaints. He's just suggesting that if people have negative things to post about the events then they're more likely to get a response from SM if they raise those conserns without getting agressive and making demands. I agree with him.

I appreciate your comments Too Tall, and those of Nicky..but unfortunately some people will read posts and see them for what they are in plain typing, and some will see them for what they want them to be. As long as some people realise that their are many ways to handle a situation, with some being advantageous and some being disadvantageous, then things may improve for them personally. But, if some people wish to butt heads, then so be it. I just choose to ignore the people who flame me deliberately as they are not worth it.

 

At least there are people on here like yourself, DavidB, Queen Sindel, Nicky, Surfy Sah etc etc who try to help.

 

Have a good one

 

Wil.

[Mike The Monkey]

I don’t want to be the one that upsets the apple cart.

 

But as a reader of the board for some time – it seems that what you say works in principle, but here will never happen.

 

Even if somebody polity airs a grievance [and often in my head I’ve completely agreed with the first poster], they’re soon swallowed up by 10 people vigorously defending Showmasters, and often petty name calling starts.

 

Then the original poster gets frustrated, and then it just turns into a fight.

 

Then Jason gets involved and turns it into a conspiracy.

 

The whole community has to change. Some people need to settle down a bit - debate should be encouraged and not suppressed by fools, as should learning to accept to other peoples views before rubbishing peoples thoughts.

 

So many times I just read arguments between board members and moderators that honestly are pathetic.

 

But generally, after the way they are treated, I don’t understand why some new members actually come back, this isn’t the friendliest place to start posting. Is that how the 'showmasters community' works?.

 

/

 

There are no conspiracies, there are no trolls, there are no people who want to harm Showmasters, there are no people who wish events not to succeed.

 

There are people who want value for money, don’t want to be mislead, or disappointed after paying hard earned money.

 

There are also people who want to discuss their views, and not all of them are positive.

 

Even if we learn those these simple things, this place would be better.

Edited October 8, 2007 by Mike The Monkey

[AJ Jones]

I don’t want to be the one that upsets the apple cart.

 

But as a reader of the board for some time – it seems that what you say works in principle, but here will never happen.

 

Even if somebody polity airs a grievance [and often in my head I’ve completely agreed with the first poster], they’re soon swallowed up by 10 people vigorously defending Showmasters, and often petty name calling starts.

 

Then the original poster gets frustrated, and then it just turns into a fight.

 

Then Jason gets involved and turns it into a conspiracy.

 

The whole community has to change. Some people need to settle down a bit - debate should be encouraged and not suppressed by fools, as should learning to accept to other peoples views before rubbishing peoples thoughts.

 

So many times I just read arguments between board members and moderators that honestly are pathetic.

 

But generally, after the way they are treated, I don’t understand why some new members actually come back, this isn’t the friendliest place to start posting. Is that how the 'showmasters community' works?.

 

/

 

There are no conspiracies, there are no trolls, there are no people who want to harm Showmasters, there are no people who wish events not to succeed.

 

There are people who want value for money, don’t want to be mislead, or disappointed after paying hard earned money.

 

There are also people who want to discuss their views, and not all of them are positive.

 

Even if we learn those these simple things, this place would be better.

 

I can once again see where you are coming from Mike, but I now live by two principals.

 

1. Treat others how you wish to be treated yourself.

 

2. Never drag yourself down to someone elses level.

 

I might not always succees in the latter, but it makes me less stressed.

[DavidB]

The whole community has to change. Some people need to settle down a bit - debate should be encouraged and not suppressed by fools, as should learning to accept to other peoples views before rubbishing peoples thoughts.

 

So many times I just read arguments between board members and moderators that honestly are pathetic.

 

There are no conspiracies, there are no trolls, there are no people who want to harm Showmasters, there are no people who wish events not to succeed.

 

There are people who want value for money, don’t want to be mislead, or disappointed after paying hard earned money.

 

And there lies the problem - no-one sets out to 'name call' or anything, but when moderators or whoever else try to 'discuss' with someone who has a grievance, it's often easier for the 'complainer' to resort to petty insults and fall back on the normal 'you buttkiss Showmasters!' stance and lose their own possibly valid original point. A lot of new people simply don't have the understanding of events like others do, and while a lot learn through experience, others will always simply want what they want and moan regardless.

 

And as for there being no conspiracies and no trolls, you're unfortunately completely wrong there. Showmasters and moderators monitor all the members on here, and that includes rival organisers who sign up to stir stuff up etc. Trust me it happens, and it's a shame that it makes us wary of anyone that signs up simply to 'complain' but we've learnt from previous happenings.

 

It'd be nice if it were all nicey nice and happy on here, but we often have to be suspicious of topics like what you made. If you stick around, you'll learn the difference between 'discussion' and 'arguments', and hopefully you won't take it too personally in future.

 

It is possible for people to disagree without it turning into a slanging match after all. Only the most extreme and unnecessary of posts will be 'supressed' as such.

[TurkFox]

I usually keep quiet on this issue but for once I feel I must speak up. I agree with some of the things DavidB is saying, but in this instance I feel that I agree more with what Mike The Monkey is saying.

 

I'm going out now so I don't have time to explain, but if anyone would like me to elaborate then let me know and I'll do it later. I have a HUGE amount to say on this subject.

[jael001]

not mentioning events run by similar or rival companies is standard practice, whether or not it actually will affect the business of the company running the forum, its a matter of respect.

[Mike The Monkey]

I completely respect what you’re saying Too Tall [oops your post has gone missing].

 

But if you have freedom of debate, and encourage us to talk about the issues in the open. Then the possibility for somebody to ‘do harm’ is impossible.

 

If it’s a rubbish suggestion, then it will be thrown out by genuine debate.

 

The event will get stronger, the community will grow, and Showmasters will develop a better name for fairness and openness [which it lacks in some areas at the moment].

 

At the moment somebody complains, it turns into a fight, like a whirl wind more people get involved, and you’re forced to issue a statement [we’ll do it better next time] and lock threads.

 

But I guess I’m starting to ramble.

 

I’m not sure how you suppress the vigorous defenders of Showmasters – that certainly is a unique problem, that I’ve never seen before. But at the moment, it is a negative, as much as it is a positive.

 

/

 

TurkFox, I pass my baton to you.

[DavidB]

Turkfox, you can say whatever you want whenever you've got the time if you feel you want input on it

 

As to Monkeydude - if people think this board is policed way too much then I don't think they've posted on many other board as I've seen FAR worse with ANYTHING negative being deleted etc.

 

It's a simple thing to expect members to respect the rules. I don't see that as a problem, and that's not even something worth discussing because they're not up for debate. By signing up, people agree to abide by them, and they shouldn't become a member if they can't live with that.

 

I don't see me disagreeing with any opinion as 'policing' so I hope that's not considered under that. I don't edit any opinions or delete them etc, so it's not a matter of 'policing' from me, just disagreeing. I have an opinion as much as the next person. The fact that many topics still exist on here with debate (both positive and negative) show that freedom of speech does exist on here. I moderate, but I'm as much a fan and attendee as the next person - for example I love horror too, so it's not a case of not having any interest and simply supporting Showmasters blindly.

 

As for my explanation above, it doesn't apply to everyone of course, and it was just a general explanation of the climate on here and what regularly occurs. As it's a public forum, there's likely to be negative posts made - but just as likely is a bunch of people replying that don't agree with the point being made. It happens. And I can say 'us' in relation to moderators because 'we' have discussions about the forum. There's no harm in that.

 

If people want to express an opinion without anyone else chiming in on it, then a letter or a phone call or a one-on-one chat is the way to go. I don't mean that in a bad way, it's absolutely possible and people have done it in the past.