Where Are These 5 Guests?

[Queen_Sindel]

If this is your opinion, okay.

 

Still that doesn't change the fact that the board is run by Showmasters, and hence for the board the Autographica forum is "Showmasters section", too.

 

That’s very strange, there seems to be have been quite a number of people, and posts, going missing recently. Is it true that anybody [apart from Indo] who dares to show dissatisfaction mysteriously vanishes?

 

Why can’t people just talk freely?, why cant people say ‘hold on that’s wrong, and I’m cheesed off about it’, why do you keep silencing people for having an opinion?... the list is endless.

 

 

Nope, this is not true.

 

If everybody who shows dissatisfaction would be banned and posts would vanish, a certain topic where indio has been very active in wouldn't be here anymore - even less would be open for posting - and half a dozen members would have been banned in the C12 photo thread.

 

There's a difference between "members showing dissatisfaction" and users who fall into a category that's generally being called a not so nice name.

Edited September 17, 2007 by Queen_Sindel

[DavidB]

Autographica is a totally different type of event compared to other ones - that would be why it's different. It's not as manic etc.

 

And the same people moderate this section as do the other event ones, so your argument about 'more freedom' is wrong.

 

If people are banned, or posts are edited etc, then it's always with good reason. Showmasters have given their moderators that responsibility, and that should be respected.

[Queen_Sindel]

And just to make sure the discussion doesn't start here again: moderators can not ban members. Only SM themselves can do that.

[DavidB]

Very true. I wouldn't have had as many long-running 'discussions' as I've had if I could just ban people lol joke

[sock007]

Nope, this is not true.

 

If everybody who shows dissatisfaction would be banned and posts would vanish, a certain topic where indio has been very active in wouldn't be here anymore - even less would be open for posting - and half a dozen members would have been banned in the C12 photo thread.

 

There's a difference between "members showing dissatisfaction" and users who fall into a category that's generally being called a not so nice name.

 

Why when anybody questions you, do you then start making crazy statements?

 

There are many instances where threads / posts / posters have been removed when they haven’t insulted anybody, and usually only expressed some form of dissatisfaction or opinion.

 

We both know that deleting ‘large’ threads would be stupid, because more people would notice the harsh censorship that you and Showmasters police.

 

If you’re not guilty of banning people, you’re guilty of being the forefront and often the catalyst of any argument / discussion. Why not just step back, and let the boards police themselves [that’s pretty much what happens in most other communities that I’ve been involved in]. Never before have have I seen two moderators involve themselves in ‘anything’ and ‘everything’ the way that you two do.

 

Daves got it spot on here, maybe you could learn a thing or two from him?.

[indio]

very true.

[nosfer2]

I think it's more a case of servers going down and posts being lost. That happened a lot a couple of months ago.

[dufresne]

i just wish we had more 1st timers at this show. oh c,mon now not another complaining topic.

 

What makes first timers automatically "good" guests ? I some of my most wanteds have been a few times before ....

[Queen_Sindel]

Why when anybody questions you, do you then start making crazy statements?

 

First of all thank you for calling me "crazy" - I am trying to carry on a normal discussion with you. But honestly speaking you are making it rather hard.

 

There are many instances where threads / posts / posters have been removed when they haven’t insulted anybody, and usually only expressed some form of dissatisfaction or opinion.

 

We both know that deleting ‘large’ threads would be stupid, because more people would notice the harsh censorship that you and Showmasters police.

 

I have never said that nothing is ever removed. Neither has David. The board has been online for several years, of course there was stuff removed.

 

However, as David has said if something has been removed, there has been a reason for it. If you don't agree with that reason, that's your choice.

 

If you’re not guilty of banning people, you’re guilty of being the forefront and often the catalyst of any argument / discussion. Why not just step back, and let the boards police themselves [that’s pretty much what happens in most other communities that I’ve been involved in]. Never before have have I seen two moderators involve themselves in ‘anything’ and ‘everything’ the way that you two do.

 

That's what moderators are there for: we are here to look after the board.

 

David and I probably the people in the moderating team who spend the most time on here, so of course we do get involved in "anything and everything".

 

If people do not like what we say or do, of course we are the catalyst of discussions/arguments. Usually people have accepted moderator's decisions in the past. However, there seems to be a growing trend to start arguing, questioning what the moderators do and generally suspecting a big conspiracy.

 

There is no way I will be letting the boards "police themselves", and I am sure no other moderator will agree with you there. And neither will Showmasters, or they wouldn't have appointed us in the first place. I have asked indio to contact Showmasters if he feels treated incorrectly, and I am asking the same of you.

 

Showmasters have appointed the moderators to make sure some basic rules are followed. Again, I am sorry if you don't agree with that. But as David and others have said: Showmasters do trust the moderators judgement, that's why we have been appointed to these positions.

 

Daves got it spot on here, maybe you could learn a thing or two from him?.

 

I'm not the one making statements about posts being supposedly deleted in every section, and in every other post.

 

Yes, if somebody questions what the moderators are doing here, I will step in. Regardless in what section this is posted. I am proud of what I do here, and I will defend what I and other moderators are doing.

Edited September 17, 2007 by Queen_Sindel

[TommyT]

That’s very strange, there seems to be have been quite a number of people, and posts, going missing recently. Is it true that anybody [apart from Indo] who dares to show dissatisfaction mysteriously vanishes?

They and all their families are relocated to the grassy knoll transit camp, where they are held under armed guard by Lord Lucan atop his trusty steed Shergar. They are then moved in batches of twenty to Area 51.

 

Of course, now we've told you...

[sock007]

First of all thank you for calling me "crazy" - I am trying to carry on a normal discussion with you. But honestly speaking you are making it rather hard.

 

This is rapidly descending into a pointless argument, thus supporting everything I’ve said in my previous posts.

 

I don’t mean this rudely, but I fear we have a translation problem. I merely inferred that you often defended yourself by stating a bunch of nonsense statements. You’ve clearly translated my words in their more literal meaning.

 

To back up my statement, I’ll review your previous posts for you. I suggested that many posts and posters were going missing. You said it was rare, and you implied it was mainly because of offensive language. Both of these statements are factually incorrect.

 

Isn’t the roll of a moderator to be fair, and keep to the facts? The majority of people going missing are those showing dissatisfaction, and / or opinion, and given the recent problems at shows, this ‘silencing’ has rapidly increased.

 

We clearly have different views on how to moderate message boards. This message board is clearly an important part of your life, and to back off a bit, would be the equivalent of a smoker giving up a 50 a day habit. I believe, I’m never ever going to change your views to anything like mine. So lets just agree to disagree?.

 

Just to prove that you’re trying to antagonise me – nowhere did I state that ‘every other post’ was being deleted. That is just fantasy. So I’m not even going to bother replying to that nonsense.

 

Just start being honest and fair Queen Sindel.

[Queen_Sindel]

This is rapidly descending into a pointless argument, thus supporting everything I’ve said in my previous posts.

 

Well, I'm still trying to work this out for my part.

 

I don’t mean this rudely, but I fear we have a translation problem. I merely inferred that you often defended yourself by stating a bunch of nonsense statements. You’ve clearly translated my words in their more literal meaning.

 

Translation problem? You're the first one to tell me that in a long time.

 

Just because you do not agree with what I am saying, my statements are not nonsense. It's rather harsh to brush off someone else's opinion with a general statement like this.

 

To back up my statement, I’ll review your previous posts for you. I suggested that many posts and posters were going missing. You said it was rare, and you implied it was mainly because of offensive language. Both of these statements are factually incorrect.

 

See, this is where part of the problem is: you are "implying" too many things, and you are not alway right.

 

I have never said that posts were removed only or mainly because of offensive language, nor did I mean to imply that. If you are not sure about what I am saying, please ask and do not make incorrect assumptions.

 

Sure, offensive language is one reason why posts are removed. However, there are countless other reasons why posts may be removed. The easiest of course being don't read, mods please delete and spam, and 99 percent of the posts I have ever removed are of that kind. Posts are never removed without a good reason.

 

You may not agree with the reason why they are removed, but nobody on here is simply saying "oh, I haven't deleted indio's posts for a month now, I'll go and delete some now" or something like that.

 

Isn’t the roll of a moderator to be fair, and keep to the facts?

 

I see we agree on one thing: the role of a moderator is indeed to be fair and to keep to the facts. That's what I am trying to do.

 

However, we disagree again on what the facts are apparently: there is no big "Showmasters conspiracy" making people and/or their posts disappear, really. That's the fact I am keeping to.

 

Also, I am seriously trying to be fair. That's why I am still here, and talking to you to try and work things out.

 

The problem is that when people disagree on the basic point of the discussion, such as "the big Showmasters conspiracy" of course it's easy to think that the other party is unfair. I absolutely see your point.

 

The majority of people going missing are those showing dissatisfaction, and / or opinion, and given the recent problems at shows, this ‘silencing’ has rapidly increased.

 

With new shows covered at the events of course new fans are drawn to the events, some of them register and post very often in their excitement (or disappointment) within a short time frame and then go silent again. It has happened at other events before, but this time it seems the number of new users has grown rapidly, so of course there will be more people like the ones I described, too.

 

Please, tell me who went missing? Anyone you are thinking of in particular?

You have been making blanket statements about missing people/posts for a while now. As I sstated before, the moderators can not ban members, and especially after events it is easy to lose track of someone who has or has not posted for a while.

 

I didn't notice any members getting banned who voiced their opinion and said opinion was negative. There's quite a bunch of people in the LFACC thread who said something negative (and the discussion was quite heated), but yet are still there.

 

I believe, I’m never ever going to change your views to anything like mine. So lets just agree to disagree?.

 

I agree with you again, we will never be changing the other one's views. The world would be boring if everybody had the same opinion anyway, don't you think?

I have no problems with agreeing to disagree, I'm fine if we can settle on that.

 

There's only one thing I have already asked for. It would ask you to please not constantly make remarks hinting that Showmasters are deleting posts and such when you post here. Is that alright with you? Of course you are entitled to this opinion, but I'll explain it with an example of my own.

 

If you go to the cinema and constantly complain during a movie that the prices for food are too high and they water down their soft drinks, would you wonder if a person working there asks you to stop this?

 

You're on a forum run by Showmasters, so of course moderators (and possibly other users) will take offense when you claim people are disappearing and posts are vanishing.

 

Just to prove that you’re trying to antagonise me – nowhere did I state that ‘every other post’ was being deleted. That is just fantasy. So I’m not even going to bother replying to that nonsense.

 

What I did use is called exaggeration, and last time I checked this was still a valid use of language to get a point across.

Sorry, as you have pointed out I am not a native speaker and sometimes I use English a little too much by the grammar rule book.

 

But your posts do often come across exactly like I wrote. You're making it sound as if the moderators are just lurking here and deleting every little bit of criticism and just waiting for the chance to jump at certain users. This is not correct - and not fair either.

 

Just start being honest and fair Queen Sindel.

 

This is something we'll probably never come to terms about. There's no need to start being honest and fair because I am already trying my best to be just that. I'm not saying I am never making mistakes, but in my eyes it is neither dishonest to believe in what I wrote, nor have I treated you unfair.

 

The problem with the honesty part is that we disagree on some points, and I accept this.

If you think I have been unfair to you, I have already asked you to contact Showmasters about it.

 

As you've said before: I'm fine with agreeing to disagee on this.

Edited September 18, 2007 by Queen_Sindel

[kane]

girls girls please

put your handbags down

[Queen_Sindel]

girls girls please

put your handbags down

 

I don't even own one.

[sock007]

Hold on, that’s when these discussions get slightly unfair. You accused me of calling you crazy. My exact words were ‘you come out with crazy statements’ that to me implies that your choice of words / and argument were nonsense, as apposed to you personally being ‘crazy’.

 

I wasn’t being insulting either by saying that it could be simply confusion with translation. I was trying to explain my initial statement, which you had taken offence too.

 

I’m sorry, but I’m not one that believes in this ‘Showmasters conspiracy’ nonsense either. Anything I’ve posted so far has been based on fact, and my arguments clearly explained.

 

You should be aware that because I used the word ‘silenced’, that I know people who have been technically banned. As we both know, those people who sway into dangerous territory, are not officially ‘banned’ as such - because that would display on their profile. Instead they have their posting rights removed, so that their account is in essence frozen.

 

I thus have no idea the scale of the ‘silencing’, because with this cunning method, to the outside world these people appear as if they’ve just gone away, never to return. Only through contacting them by other means can you learn what actually happened. I do know however that that number has recently rapidly increased.

 

 

I didn't notice any members getting banned who voiced their opinion and said opinion was negative. There's quite a bunch of people in the LFACC thread who said something negative (and the discussion was quite heated), but yet are still there.

 

My guess is that it is for 'some' cases this reason, why ‘they are still there’ [or at least appear to be ].

 

 

 

 

But as Kane says, let’s just concede that we disagree on multiple things. There is no need to add me to the ever growing list, as I’m fairly excited for Autographica.

[Queen_Sindel]

Hold on, that’s when these discussions get slightly unfair. You accused me of calling you crazy. My exact words were ‘you come out with crazy statements’ that to me implies that your choice of words / and argument were nonsense, as apposed to you personally being ‘crazy’.

 

Okay, my apologies then - for me it was kind of a given that only a crazy person does make crazy statements. And pparently our definitions of unfair do differ as well.

 

I didn't take the language thing as an insult either, I was trying to joke. Sometimes German and English humour do not get along very well unfortunately.

 

 

I’m sorry, but I’m not one that believes in this ‘Showmasters conspiracy’ nonsense either.

 

It may not have been your intention, but you often sound like you do in fact believe in that nonsense. Apology accepted, and I apologize in return for a genuine misunderstanding.

 

Anything I’ve posted so far has been based on fact, and my arguments clearly explained.

 

That's one point where I do not agree with you. You have been making "blanket accusations" per my definition.

 

With this:

 

You should be aware that because I used the word ‘silenced’, that I know people who have been technically banned. As we both know, those people who sway into dangerous territory, are not officially ‘banned’ as such - because that would display on their profile. Instead they have their posting rights removed, so that their account is in essence frozen.

 

we are getting closer to the core.

 

I have no idea who your "friends" are - and I understand you do not want to post their names - but if they were banned, I am sure SM had a good reason to ban them/freeze their accounts.

 

Without the names I have no way to try and figure out what has happened exactly. But of course I understand that you feel with your friends and that you think that they've been treated unfair. I'd most likely do the same if something happened to friends of mine.

 

But as Kane says, let’s just concede that we disagree on multiple things. There is no need to add me to the ever growing list, as I’m fairly excited for Autographica.

 

Contrary to popular believes getting into a heated discussion with a moderator does not automatically lead to banning.

 

But you are correct, there's no need to carry this discussion on. Thankfully we are willing to admit that we will not come to terms anyway and there's no need to discuss every single word to death.

 

Enjoy Autographica!

[sock007]

Please don’t think that my words are in defence of anybody, or any particular case. I was just implying that I knew the system, and could give examples.

 

It appears though that my account of the situation wasn’t far wrong.

 

But anyway let’s leave this here.

 

 

Friends?

[Queen_Sindel]

You're right, let's just leave it here and agree to disagree.

 

Friends?

 

Friends.

 

And we didn't even use the handbags.

[kane]

thank goodness for that

x

[indio]

friends.