answers to some of the comments about the event

[madmonster*]

The best advice any of us can give you is to talk to us AT THE TIME! When you arrive make yourself known at the organisers desk, explain to them that you have a problem with queuing and normally (I won't say in all cases as there are always exceptions!) things will be sorted out for you.

 

Alternatively talk to a PIT BOSS - the ones in the red shirts- They and only they have the authority in the actual area to get the crew to give out an extra VQ ticket. If the pit boss is engulfed (as was the case at LFACC), then try and find one in a quieter area, have a word with them and ask them to help. They are normally in radio contact with each other.

 

As crew we are human and do care about people having a good time, but you must excuse us for being skeptical as people do try it on all the time. Complaining the day after the event doesn't enable us to fix it and get you a VQ ticket. It does enable us to try and learn from our mistakes, but I have to admit that in this instance from what I have read none of the crew did anything wrong in the circumstances and with the information available to them.

 

All I hear is demands for compensation from someone other than the offended party, in each and every post and the skeptic in me immediately jumps out and thinks "are they trying it on now!".... Just goes to show what a cynical world we live in... so forgive me if this is the immediate reaction we take when asked for extra VQ's, or free autographs or being allowed to take photos when it's a no photos guest.

 

BEFORE YOU SHOUT AT ME ABOUT THE LAST PARAGRAPH PLEASE REMEMBER THAT YOU CAN'T SEE ME SMILING AS I TYPE THIS... WORDS DO NOT CONVEY ON A PAGE MY TONE....I DO NOT FOR ONE MINUTE THINK THAT YOU ARE COMPLAINING JUST TO GET COMPENSATION!

[Persephone1]

Perhaps the easiest way by far for Showmasters to deal with this at future events is for them to have a dedicated Disability Coordinator?

 

That way people who will have significant difficulties at the event with standing or queuing for long periods of time because of ailments which may not be immediately obvious (such as chronic arthritis, ME etc) can contact the co-ordinator prior to the event, explain their situation, and as someone else suggested be issued wth a badge upon arrival which will alert every crew member that they need additional VQ tickets for carers, need to be hustled to the front of the line etc?

[grawlix]

BEFORE YOU SHOUT AT ME ABOUT THE LAST PARAGRAPH PLEASE REMEMBER THAT YOU CAN'T SEE ME SMILING AS I TYPE THIS... WORDS DO NOT CONVEY ON A PAGE MY TONE....I DO NOT FOR ONE MINUTE THINK THAT YOU ARE COMPLAINING JUST TO GET COMPENSATION!

 

I have no idea why you are shouting, and inferring that I’d shout back.

 

But I find it astonishing your failure to see the fundamental wrongs in this policy, and how unfair it has been to so many disabled people.

 

The [official] rules the company applied, in relation to her disability, clearly ruined her day, and resulted in the basic fact that she couldn’t meet the people she’d paid her entrance fee for.

 

I have nothing to gain except fairness. I find some of your attitudes to disabled people fairly unsavoury. I hope that some day you don’t find yourselves in the same position.

 

There needs to be a dramatic change of policy.

Edited September 7, 2007 by grawlix

[showmasters]

Showmasters always endeavours to facilitate equal access for all attendees, and to take into account as best we can any special needs or requirements attendees may have. We often seek the advice of Electrical Eggs, a voluntary organisation dedicated to making events accessible to all attendees and which is recognised by the Disability Rights Commission, on the best ways to achieve this goal. We recognise however that at LFCC this year, despite our intentions otherwise, some of our procedures seem to have failed to withstand the pressure of the sheer number of attendees, and we are reviewing those procedures to ensure that we are better able to fulfill the needs of anyone with special requirements at future shows, and prevent any repeat of the problems encountered last weekend.

[fray101]

OK, I don't know whether this is an even vaguely feasible idea (and would really only help people who are actually registered disabled) but would it be possible to have to some kind of helpers pass that could be given to people when purchasing their ticket, upon production of their disabled badge - something that could be given to them when they purchase their admission ticket? Just something to let the crew know that it's OK to give someone two VTs.

[Too Tall]

OK, I don't know whether this is an even vaguely feasible idea (and would really only help people who are actually registered disabled) but would it be possible to have to some kind of helpers pass that could be given to people when purchasing their ticket, upon production of their disabled badge - something that could be given to them when they purchase their admission ticket? Just something to let the crew know that it's OK to give someone two VTs.

This and many other ideas are the kind of thing we are looking at.

[crippsy_99]

grawlix' date='Sep 7 2007, 08:15 AM' post='1112320'

 

I find this paragraph, is just completely bizarre.

 

It basically says that unless you prove you have a disabled friend with you at the time, you’re not having a ticket?

 

QS pretty much had the same reply as what id have said back a page ago http://showmastersonline.com/forums/index....t&p=1112357

The honest answer to most of your questions im afraid would be yes.

 

Crippsy-- I'm disabled, but I'm not in a wheelchair, yet at least. What would you have done?

 

I want to know what in the hell I'm supposed to be able to do to 'prove' my main physical disability (I have several!), since it's not usually visible unless I've been on my feet for some time and am limping.

 

If I asked a friend to get a VT for me, they probably wouldn't be allowed to, under the guidelines I've read here. What's with that? Why put those of us out who really do have these issues because some idiots decide to abuse the system? That's just not fair.

 

Now this is where we start to have problems. I think my honest answer would have to be, I dont really know how you could prove your disability during the initial scramble for VQT's, so no if it had been me, I still would not have given out an extra one if you wernt indeed there. And if you were there, then why would someone else be getting you a ticket? But as people have said many times, if you go back to the area later and have a word with a crew member or pit boss and inform them you have a disability, then im positive you would have recieved help or advice of at least some kind.

 

Tell me, is Showmasters the only company where you can’t complain about anything AFTER the event. Shouldn’t this be in writing somewhere in the terms and conditions?.

 

If that was the case, how come you've been allowed to complain so much and for so long? No-ones stopped you, just offering counter arguments.

 

I refuse to accept also that there is any correlation between the abuse of disabled parking, and disabled virtual ticket abuse.

 

Please, come out of your protective bubble and see the world for what it really is! Humans/customers will do whatever it takes to get what they want, at any cost, whatever it takes. Who's ever going to know that someone who is saying their disabled really is? From their point of view, as soon as they got what they want, they couldnt care less, job done, suckers whoever fell for it.

 

I do think a disabled pass of some kind would be a good idea, but then its a case of 'proving' you really are, in person it has one set of problems, but how do you prove someones disabled from an email?

[peeka85]

After reading everyone's comments (with people both standing up for me/others like me and people disagreeing) I just wanted to add that I think some sort of disabled pass is a good idea.

 

The problem was not only that I wasn't allowed to get a VT for my friend in a wheelchair but that I was only able to get a VT ticket for Milo and Adrian because I can't walk properly and I couldn't send my bf/carer up to get me a VT for Hayden. The fact that I don't use crutches (I can't support myself on them) means that people often question me. I completely understand there are people who pretend and that it's difficult for the staff, which is why we are voicing our opinions in hope that there will be a way of sorting it out.

 

Thank you for the feedback.

[sparks]

Good that you have answered some complaints, but once again THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE FACILITIES (OR LACK OF) FOR DISABLED PEOPLE; Big suprise there. Take your own seat? HA!

 

 

From my recollection (as a disabled person myself) the DDA requires "reasonable" effort to attend the needs of disabled people at an event. However, (and the law is not clear but it is generally accepted) the venue is the agency that must provide the resources, not Showmasters.

 

Saying that, I'm not aware that a successful ruling has come down from the courts on this one.

 

 

remember i'm a techie and a psychologist not a lawyer

[sparks]

Showmasters always endeavours to facilitate equal access for all attendees, and to take into account as best we can any special needs or requirements attendees may have. We often seek the advice of Electrical Eggs, a voluntary organisation dedicated to making events accessible to all attendees and which is recognised by the Disability Rights Commission, on the best ways to achieve this goal. We recognise however that at LFCC this year, despite our intentions otherwise, some of our procedures seem to have failed to withstand the pressure of the sheer number of attendees, and we are reviewing those procedures to ensure that we are better able to fulfill the needs of anyone with special requirements at future shows, and prevent any repeat of the problems encountered last weekend.

 

 

I think as a member of the showmasters team and somebody who is active with electrical eggs (I was treasurer for the UK branch for several years) I can support that showmasters does make an effort to be disability friendly. (Basically they have to be otherwise the disabled members of the crew would probably lynch them! )

 

Showmasters are required by the DDA to make "reasonable effort" to accommodate disabled people. To be fair I can't see anything in this situation that doesn't live up to that requirement. That's not to say that there may be improvements in some areas and I know that Jason and the team are always trying to improve the shows. But, these improvements have to be balanced against the operation of the show itself.

[peeka85]

I think the problem is, that everyone involved is saying different things. I was happy with the response, and then someone goes and says the situation lives up to the requirement of the DDA. I give up. I will know next time not to look forward to an event so much and maybe not even bother going.

 

I certainly don't have any expectations anymore. It sounds like (from some people; not all, some have been very helpful) that I'll just have to put up with it and quit complaining.

[Guest WaterBoy]

Hiya

 

I do not want to cause any trouble, but I did not have any real problems with the venue with regards to lighting and space.

 

Sure I really like the EC2 venue, but EC1 was not bad. It was just different. It may not suit large crowds, may have had a funny shape, but I kinda thought that the low lighting and ceiling "decor" (!) did add to the atmosphere when you are a fan of Star Wars ("used universe" anyone!), or an Earth based urban genre. I can understand people may not have enjoyed it or seen it that way, but it was different and I appreciate it for that.

 

Aside from that, I thought it was a good event with big guests in a central location full of fans having fun. And thats the main thing isn't it?

 

Regards,

 

Paul

[Too Tall]

I think the problem is, that everyone involved is saying different things. I was happy with the response, and then someone goes and says the situation lives up to the requirement of the DDA. I give up. I will know next time not to look forward to an event so much and maybe not even bother going.

 

I certainly don't have any expectations anymore. It sounds like (from some people; not all, some have been very helpful) that I'll just have to put up with it and quit complaining.

peeka,

 

What was said was that are current solutions live up to the requirements of the DDA. But it is accepted that the current solutions did falter under the pressure of so many people at LFCC. So changes will happen and it's not a case of you "having to put up with it". We are aware that there were issues at LFCC and are looking at ways to make things better for future shows. Please don't give up on something you love because of one bad experience.

 

My main comment to you is if you are at an event and it's not going as you'd hoped, please go and see a Pit Boss (crew in red) or someone at the organisers booth. We do want everyone to have a good time, and if we know of an issue we will do everything we can to help. If we don't know, we can't help. Please let us know at the time so we can help and hopefully you'll go home feeling better about your day.

 

Stuart

Edited September 11, 2007 by Too Tall

[sparks]

I think the problem is, that everyone involved is saying different things. I was happy with the response, and then someone goes and says the situation lives up to the requirement of the DDA. I give up. I will know next time not to look forward to an event so much and maybe not even bother going.

 

I certainly don't have any expectations anymore. It sounds like (from some people; not all, some have been very helpful) that I'll just have to put up with it and quit complaining.

 

 

I'm not sure what the problem is? I've advocated for disability access to events for about 10 years now and I'm still not sure what you expect from Showmasters on this one. The DDA is suitably (un)clear on this, that a reasonable effort be made. Showmasters have to balance this against the operation of the event. IIRC it was quiet clear in the programme book that if there was a problem you needed to contact the Pit Bosses or the info desk. Nobody can fix a problem they don't now about at the time. There are a number of documented instances where the issue you have raised has successfully been dealt with by a pitboss or another member of the staff. In the past I've even brought chairs into the queues so that people can have a seat! I'm not sure why you have a problem with me pointing this out and that it conforms to the DDA requirements? In fact from observation I know that normally Showmasters exceeds those requirements whenever they can. I think that the problems on Sunday where exasperated by the unexpected influx of people due to the last minute announcement of the Heroes guests.

 

And don't think that just because I work for showmasters that I would defend them if I thought they were in the wrong. I'm more than happy to hit people around the head if I think there has been a screw up!

[Dragon Home]

To Quote Sparks

 

(Basically they have to be otherwise the disabled members of the crew would probably lynch them! )

 

and

 

And don't think that just because I work for showmasters that I would defend them if I thought they were in the wrong. I'm more than happy to hit people around the head if I think there has been a screw up!

 

I don't think they would want to be hit around the head by Sparks - he turns green when angry You know we love you really don't you Sparks.

 

I wasn't crewing the Sunday morning and I was surprised how bad it was. I know that a lot of people were having problems getting through to the Crew. And when I was in the Queue for VTs saw one young man in a wheelchair with his parents they were advised them to see the pit boss to get VTs. I think they were lucky enough to be able to sort out 3 tickets for Patrick Stewart - who was also "mobbed".

 

Hopefully this won't happen again as everyone has been saying this was an exception to the norm.

 

Roll on MK.

 

Anne

[peeka85]

I think I speak for everyone when I say aggggggggggggh. I already said a couple of pages a go that I was happy with SM's response to my criticisms, yet people are still quoting me from pages a go. Please just stop.

 

Sparks - I didn't have a problem with you pointing that out. The problem was I'd said it ages a go and had since said I was pleased that SM would take on board people's criticisms and hopefully make it better in the future.

 

Stuart - Again thank you for your reply. I had already accepted that there were problems, I did try to go to the organisers booth but there were already people there and I would've had to queue again. I was fed up of that. So yes, next time I will go to the pit boss! But hopefully, there won't be a next time!

[Trialia]

Someone at the cosplay desk was very kind and let me sit down there for about ten minutes while I helped sort out music for myself and a couple of other people (I do carry random stuff with me!), so I'm thankful for that, at least, but it would be nice for other people to have had some help too, and me not to have to bother people to get help for myself. I'm really quite shy when it comes to approaching people I don't know, even when I'm in costume.

 

Having said that, next time I will be sure to say something at the time. Thank you for responding, I appreciate it.

[zebredy]

Well if any of you petit ladies needed a ahdn all you need do is ask and im sure one of the nicer gental men here would either helped you up/down or given up a seat for you.

 

Wait sec I forgot what kidna guys go ot these things

 

If my fiance and I saw anyone, in real need of a seet, then we would have gladly given them up. As it was he parked himself against a wall and I followed suit....

 

I never really saw more then a couple seats free in the cafs, and as we saw loads of people queuing who looked like genuin customers, we didn't think it was right to take there seats....

 

 

 

 

 

 

LLAP

[zebredy]

After reading all the posts aobove, there is only one other thing I can say

 

Like another event I go to, they have different coloured badges, that hang on a something round your neck, it would be easy to issue people with badges if they are disabled, but they would have to be marked so that all crew members knew what to look out for, and knew if you were coming with another person who was disabled, just your carer, or on your own.

 

Unfortunatly where the other event failed, was that they made the badges different colours, and not all the staff working the evnet could remember what the different colours were for.

 

Be easy enough to have a badge that is the same in colour and look, to everyone else who had one and was disabled, and just put a C on it if you were a carer, and just put the a number to indicate how many people you were with.

 

Or if you were getting tickets for just yourself, have say 1 only writen on them... It would be easy enough to recognise and would not confuse people as to what colour meant you were just a carer or were disabled yourself etc (yes I know some carers are also disabled but you get what I mean)

 

I'm not disabled myself, but I have been to events with people who are disabled and I have seen how hard it has been for them at time, mearly to get around the venue in question without getting totaly drainned of all energy and regretting ever having come the event in the first place. Don't know why something like a disabled badge wasn't introduced years ago, after all showmasters events have been running for a long time now, havn't they?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hathor:

LLAP

[sparks]

 

 

Sparks - I didn't have a problem with you pointing that out. The problem was I'd said it ages a go and had since said I was pleased that SM would take on board people's criticisms and hopefully make it better in the future.

 

 

 

 

Apologies if you thought I was dragging this out. That's the problem with forums that there is often a lag between you writing and somebody posting a reply to your comment. Hopefully a stiff beating with a walking stick at the next pit boss meeting will help people think of ways to improve access

[surfy_sah]

I have just spent way over an hour reading through ALL of this stuff

 

sorry but I have a disabled question, flame me for being blonde all you like but I think it is a fair question:

 

for all the attendees out there who can't stand or queue or have problems or difficulties in this area, why don't you attend in a wheelchair or arrange to hire/borrow one?

 

it would seem to solve all the problems!

you're in a seat, problem solved!

VTQ problem, solved as a wheelchair is obvious!

you can't stand for long, problem solved!

you can't queue for long, again problem solved as your not on your feet!!

 

 

Queen Sindle, some where amougst all this stuff, has said that she attended at one event on crutches and found it was too much so borrowed/hired a wheelchair!!

 

no I'm not disabled myself, but I have had experience caring for people in wheelchairs or with disabilities, so excuse me if I appear niaeve/clueless/offensive/whatever else you think

 

 

surfy sah xx

[Tina]

My mum was with me and she has arthritis in her hip and I brought a folding chair with us as she can't stand for long and she along with me enjoyed ourselves imensley.

[Trialia]

Surfy-- with what money, exactly? I can barely afford to attend half the cons I go to as it is, so I sure couldn't afford to hire a wheelchair into the deal.

 

As for borrowing one, I don't know anybody who uses one who wouldn't need it. Not one that I could work, anyway. (We have my grandfather's old chair but it's way too heavy for me to manage. I've tried.)

 

So...yeah, naive is about the word I'd use. Sorry there, but there are things that cannot be done, and one of those is easily finding a wheelchair to use if you don't have a broken leg and you're not on the mid-to-high-rate mobility component of DLA (I'm on low-rate).

[Queen_Sindel]

Surfy-- with what money, exactly? I can barely afford to attend half the cons I go to as it is, so I sure couldn't afford to hire a wheelchair into the deal.

 

Okay, I only now saw that sah mentioned me, so I'm going to explain the full story. Sah's not exactly naive, she just didn't remember all the facts.

 

I went to LFACC on crutches last year because I had injured my ankle, but wanted to meet Nathan Fillion.

I had told some people I was going to do this and they kindly informed me that I could borrow a wheelchair at Earls Court in case I couldn't go on anymore.

 

Well, after a couple of hours I had reached that point, and the kind souls at the Organisers Booth put me in contact with Earls Court office (I think security handled this issue). They did provide me with a wheelchair, free of charge. I only had to leave my passport/Id with them as token (or however you call it in English) to make sure I return it.

 

In Manchester my ankle decided it hadn't healed as well as the doctors thought and gave in again. After an interesting night at the ER the doctors put me on crutches. That meant I was hopping around through G-Mex, too, and without sleep that night I did way worse. Thankfully Hannah saw me and helped me borrow another wheelchair, this time from G-Mex offices. These guys even let me keep it Saturday night when the event was over, I had to return it Sunday before the show closed only. Plus one of them got me back to the hotel to make sure I was alright.

 

Of course that won't work if 200 people start asking for a wheelchair now. But if there's really a case of emergency, this is a way.

 

As for borrowing one, I don't know anybody who uses one who wouldn't need it. Not one that I could work, anyway. (We have my grandfather's old chair but it's way too heavy for me to manage. I've tried.)

 

I am not sure how things work in the UK - but in Germany you can borrow/rent a wheelchair at the Red Cross for a minimal charge, like when you are travelling or something. If you're a member, I think they will even let you borrow one for free. I am sure the UK has something similar.

[Trialia]

Sindel-- thank you for the information! That at least is something. I guess we'll see.