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answers to some of the comments about the event

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kneon light    1

Posted this in a seperate thread but it has not yet been explained so I thought I'd try again here:

 

However my main problem is that in the "pre-paid" queue outside there were people with early bird tickets and people with pre-paid tickets that were not early bird. There was no separate queue for people with pre-paid non early bird tickets. When the doors opened at 10 everyone in the queue with pre-paid tickets was let in (earlybird or not). As a result some people who had not paid for early bird tickets ended up getting in and getting lower VQ tickets than those with Earlybird tickets.

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wiccawise21    0

on the whole disabled virtual ticket situation that seems to have popped up a few times....

 

the virtual queue system has a strict one ticket per person rule. crew can not give extra tickets to people who say they have friends that need them because of the inappropriate people who like to lie. its sad but it happens.

 

but.... if the carer were to approach the actual queue with their single ticket as well as the person in the wheelchair it would be perfectly obvious that you were not lying and of course you would both be admitted into the queue. problems only arise when groups of people expect to go through on one ticket.

 

showmasters have always tried to accomodate everyone; wheelchair users, push chairs, people on crutches or those with small children... so i hope your experience hasnt put you off attending another event.

 

=x=

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Facilities for disabled people is something that should be taken up with the venue itself, Showmasters can only ask that facilities for disabled are in place, they can't exactly supply them!

 

Or do you mean things like wheelchair access up to a guest etc?

 

I believe there are laws that state venues/buildings etc must now have proper facilities for disabled access.

 

So I'm not quite sure what you expect Showmasters to say or do about this?

 

 

Some people are so ignorant. I mean; how about letting people get Virtual Queue tickets for people in wheelchairs or people who have difficulty queuing? How hard is that? I only got to meet Milo and Adrian because that was the only queue I could bear to stand in and I wasn't allowed to get a ticket for them for my friend who's in a wheelchair who could barely get to the back of the queue, let alone the front. That's the venue's fault is it?

 

And how about a teensy bit of respect from some of the staff? I was spoken to like I was lying about my disability, do you know how sick I am of people doing that? I get it most of my life so I don't appreciate having paid a lot of money for an event and to have people being completely inconsiderate, rude and downright ignorant toward me. I understand they were stressed, but you know what; I've been there. I used to deal with customers one day and what I always knew, was no matter how awful you felt; DONT TAKE IT OUT ON THE CUSTOMERS! You wouldnt like it if it were you.

 

 

Peeka.

You posted something similar a few days ago in a different thread and I posted this reply to it there. It may be that you haven't read it, if not please do now and accept the apology offered within it. If this isn't acceptable then I really don't know what more I can do.

 

http://showmastersonline.com/forums/index....t&p=1109611

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grawlix    0

But you do hold a lot of responsibility, because you’ve basically told us that you wouldn’t allow any exceptions, and that you’d ignore anybody who tried it on.

 

Chances are therefore that on this occasion you purposely ignored her [your words] despite it being a valid reason [how many others were there?!?!].

 

I’m sorry your ears should p**** up, when you hear the word ‘disabled’ you should have made exceptions, and tried to help.

 

But I did love your solution, she should have come along with her friend, and then you’d have let her in.

 

Why would she do the complete opposite to what you told her originally, and go against the ticket system? – I wouldn’t have, would you?

 

 

 

But saying that, I do respect that you’ve come forward, and apologised – maybe Showmasters can offer some kind of compensation for the clear error?.

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But you do hold a lot of responsibility, because you’ve basically told us that you wouldn’t allow any exceptions, and that you’d ignore anybody who tried it on.

 

Chances are therefore that on this occasion you purposely ignored her [your words] despite it being a valid reason [how many others were there?!?!].

 

I’m sorry your ears should p**** up, when you hear the word ‘disabled’ you should have made exceptions, and tried to help.

 

But I did love your solution, she should have come along with her friend, and then you’d have let her in.

 

Why would she do the complete opposite to what you told her originally, and go against the ticket system? – I wouldn’t have, would you?

 

 

 

But saying that, I do respect that you’ve come forward, and apologised – maybe Showmasters can offer some kind of compensation for the clear error?.

 

Grawlix - I don't know why you feel the need to join in with something which doesn't concern you, but it seems that you've decided to jump on the bandwagon and knock people. At no point did I say this IS what happened, I said IF this is what happened, and there is a big difference in that. You weren't in that exact situation at that precise moment, you don't know what it was like or what happened. When you have crowds of people all crowding around trying to get tickets, pushing and shoving for all they are worth instead of lining up like civilized human beings as requested, you don't purposely ignore anything. I have no doubt I didn't hear half of what was said to me that morning, and at no time did I hear the specific words "disabled" or "wheelchair". I do have a brain and a bit of common sense you know, and I do use it. It's only common sense to suggest that my "solution" is what would have happened if s/he had turned up later and explained the situation. One ticket per person is what I did, and I stand by that as it is what I was told to do. If you want to "score points" go pick on someone else. I'm not thick or stupid, and I'm not going to get into a war of words with someone who either doesn't read a reply properly or who manipulates it to suit their own needs. Go pick on someone your own size.

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chris_mk    0

But you do hold a lot of responsibility, because you’ve basically told us that you wouldn’t allow any exceptions, and that you’d ignore anybody who tried it on.

 

Chances are therefore that on this occasion you purposely ignored her [your words] despite it being a valid reason [how many others were there?!?!].

 

I’m sorry your ears should p**** up, when you hear the word ‘disabled’ you should have made exceptions, and tried to help.

 

But I did love your solution, she should have come along with her friend, and then you’d have let her in.

 

Why would she do the complete opposite to what you told her originally, and go against the ticket system? – I wouldn’t have, would you?

 

 

 

But saying that, I do respect that you’ve come forward, and apologised – maybe Showmasters can offer some kind of compensation for the clear error?.

 

Grawlix - I don't know why you feel the need to join in with something which doesn't concern you, but it seems that you've decided to jump on the bandwagon and knock people. At no point did I say this IS what happened, I said IF this is what happened, and there is a big difference in that. You weren't in that exact situation at that precise moment, you don't know what it was like or what happened. When you have crowds of people all crowding around trying to get tickets, pushing and shoving for all they are worth instead of lining up like civilized human beings as requested, you don't purposely ignore anything. I have no doubt I didn't hear half of what was said to me that morning, and at no time did I hear the specific words "disabled" or "wheelchair". I do have a brain and a bit of common sense you know, and I do use it. It's only common sense to suggest that my "solution" is what would have happened if s/he had turned up later and explained the situation. One ticket per person is what I did, and I stand by that as it is what I was told to do. If you want to "score points" go pick on someone else. I'm not thick or stupid, and I'm not going to get into a war of words with someone who either doesn't read a reply properly or who manipulates it to suit their own needs. Go pick on someone your own size.

 

I did make a suggestion about this, which seemed to get swallowed up in the carnage elsewhere...

 

At Earls Court (and I think Gmex), people who have some kind of physical disability are allowed to queue up seperately (certainly at Earls Court, it was the ramp up to the doors). Why not have a member of the crew there to let them in when it opens, then they can give a badge or special pass to those who are there to help. That way, the pass/badge can be shown to the crew with the VQ tickets, so that they can get more than 1. This would involve these unfortunate incidents and also avoid the crew having to ask awkward questions.

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Sami_x    0

I think showmasters deserve our hats off to them -

 

if I was running the show and read some of the criticisms, I'd turn around and say I'm never putting one on again! :poki:

 

And it's really fab that they listen to suggestions and act upon the good ones too

 

Keep up the good work guys :chair:

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crippsy_99    29

I actually replied before you answered, and saying the staff were being too overcautious is not an excuse. Especially when you can see someone is in a wheelchair and someone can't walk properly. I don't see that I have to explain myself anymore.

 

I know what your getting at, but look at it another way. The mad scrum for VQT's was insane with virtually no orderly line and the crew were being bombarded with grabbing hands from every direction. Now when your in a situation like that, its difficult to see individuals, just the hands, and theres virtually no time to stop and look around for someone in particular due to everyone else inching closer to the prized tickets..

When you fought your way to the front, you may well have said you have a friend in a wheelchair but the chances are the crew member couldnt see your friend due to the grabbing hoards and in the confusion prob wouldnt have had time to stop and take a good look around for a wheelchair, and even then no guarentee it was YOUR friend..

As others have said, if you'd taken the one ticket, then came back with your friend and told them you were assisting them, even if you wanted your own autos too fair enough, then the crew member on at the time should hopefully be ok with letting you both through on the same ticket, as clearly your both together with one person who has mobility problems.

Speaking for myself, while in the mad scrum I do remember one wheelchair among as I thought how rude people were pushing past, so let that wheelchair though in front of me briefly, and could see how that person could be easilly not seen in the confusion.

 

Well if any of you petit ladies needed a ahdn all you need do is ask and im sure one of the nicer gental men here would either helped you up/down or given up a seat for you.

 

Wait sec I forgot what kidna guys go ot these things :o

 

Excuse me?! :D

Usually I dont take offence at anything on forums as its the internet and a lot gets said..but when someone I would presume was the 'same kinda person' as I am and says something like that, I do!

Lfcc may have had a lot of random t***s there causing trouble, but the vast majority of guys that attend these events are a totally different breed and believe it or not, we can be nice too! And yes, most of us would have given up our seats or helped those in need!

Best thing about it is, your a guy yourself! So your pretty much saying you'd have been a right barsteward and made people suffer even if they needed your help "because us guys dont do that kinda thing" eh?

 

The lack of seating may have been explained, but that doesn't give us any kind of hope that things will be different next time. As things stand, unless one of the two actresses I fangirl out of all reason is attending, I won't be. I'm not going to put myself through that and I wouldn't blame Peeka if she didn't either.

 

If you miss out on a whole event over lack of seating and dont want to bring your own with you, its only yourself's your hurting by missing out on the meeting friends and famous people attending and the stalls etc there. I personally find it no better at mk because people hog the seats in the shopping center the entire day.

Think the simple fact is, any event such as lfcc in an open hall like earls court isnt very likely to have much seating in. An event held the other side of london in a big hall I find is even WORSE as at least at Gmex/lfcc theres space to sit down on the floor, but there you dont even get that!

Edited by crippsy_99

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gebes    15

I think showmasters deserve our hats off to them -

 

if I was running the show and read some of the criticisms, I'd turn around and say I'm never putting one on again! :P

 

And it's really fab that they listen to suggestions and act upon the good ones too

 

Keep up the good work guys :(

 

Sami_X : hope you'll pardon my saying, but FINALLY, a newbie to the forums who realizes the score and shows their support for the team that bring us great guests!

 

To all those going on about seating... Come to Collectormania Glasgow next year, I guarantee you'll get plenty seating there

 

DSC00481.jpg

 

I don't know if there's a similar sort of venue that showmasters could use in London, but this had everything, plenty seating and good lighting !!! :D:o

Edited by gebes

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Tina    4

This was my first time attending something like this and I enjoyed myself no end. Yeah the venue was dark and that as been acknowledged but other than that brilliant. I came especially to see Gareth David Lloyd and had my photo taken with him. Such a shame he didn't have a photo session though but I guess being that he was only announced last minute made it difficult for the organisers to find a slot for one. Shall be attending future ones am now hooked. Really great aptmosphere.

Edited by Tina

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grawlix    0

When you fought your way to the front, you may well have said you have a friend in a wheelchair but the chances are the crew member couldnt see your friend due to the grabbing hoards and in the confusion prob wouldnt have had time to stop and take a good look around for a wheelchair, and even then no guarentee it was YOUR friend..

 

I find this paragraph, is just completely bizarre.

 

It basically says that unless you prove you have a disabled friend with you at the time, you’re not having a ticket?

 

Given the nature of some people’s disabilities [and the chaos], that isn’t always possible.

 

Does this mean if you couldn’t see her friend, you would have considered that she was lying?

 

Tell me, how many people have you ever met whilst at a show, who have lied about having a disabled person with them!?!?

 

As Chris said, the rules need updating – so more crew members don’t make more errors like this. His suggestion was perfect.

 

 

 

Your solution:

 

Go against all the rules, and what you’d previously told her. As I said before, I wouldn’t have done that, would you?.

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Queen_Sindel    3,319

It basically says that unless you prove you have a disabled friend with you at the time, you’re not having a ticket?

 

This is the rule at the moment, yes. It is one ticket per person, no matter what.

 

Given the nature of some people’s disabilities [and the chaos], that isn’t always possible.

 

That's why crippsy, me and others have said she should have come back with her friend.

 

When I was in a wheelchair the person pushing me did not have a ticket to see Nathan Filion either, but we were let through, no questions asked.

 

Does this mean if you couldn’t see her friend, you would have considered that she was lying?

 

Yes. I know I would have.

 

Tell me, how many people have you ever met whilst at a show, who have lied about having a disabled person with them!?!?

 

As sad as it sounds, there are seriously people around doing everything one can imagine to get a ticket. Claiming they are with a disabled person is seriously among the excuses used.

 

Your solution:

 

Go against all the rules, and what you’d previously told her. As I said before, I wouldn’t have done that, would you?.

 

I'm not sure what you mean with that - what is against the rules if she went back with her friend later when it wasn't that dangerous for a person in a wheelchair anymore? They had one VQ ticket, and going from previous experience I am sure she would have been let through as her friend's carer as well.

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grawlix    0

I’m sorry but that response is terrible, and as a company you should be ashamed to even print it.

 

I honestly can’t believe in 2007, I’m reading such nonsense.

 

Can somebody at Showmasters actually start thinking of a plan / policy for disabled visitors, and compensate this person, because currently this is a joke.

Edited by grawlix

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Queen_Sindel    3,319

If you are referring to me: What I said is not an official statement (while I am a moderator, I do not work for Showmasters), but it is my personal opinion based on the events I have been to in the past 15 years.

 

I know that I sounded terrible, but you can blame those sad individuals lowering themselves to such tricks. They make it hard for the really disabled people. I know that no sane person would believe people could do this, but they really do.

 

As I, crippsy and Banished_from_Rohan have said: If such mistakes have been made on that day, they would have been cleared up if the persons concerned would have returned either to the queue, had addressed a pit boss or had gone to the information booth. I think it was even mentioned in the programme to let someone of the crew know if there were problems so that something can be done about it. Unfortunately they have chosen neither of these options and instead went home disgruntled.

 

I've said before, the rules are far away from being perfect and they need some work. Showmasters is aware of that matter.

Edited by Queen_Sindel

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grawlix    0

I have to say there is one bit of your response I also fundamentally don’t agree with.

 

I accept that people would have all manner of excuses of why they need more than one ticket – friends & family coming later, people in toilets, people in other queues, I've got a train to catch, I have to be somewhere at this time.... etc.

 

I’ll even accept that our society is in a dour state.

 

BUT I refuse to accept that people coming up to you saying “please may I have a ticket for my DISABLED friend’ and lying about it, is common occurrence.

 

I therefore suggest that these tricks do not exist anywhere, apart from in your imagination.

 

This person obviously had a pretty awful day, because of the incorrect procedures in place. Now you have the nerve to say ‘you should have seen us at the event’, and a pathetic argument here defending the indefensible.

 

We both recognise that there were serious failings – so can this poor woman now expect an official apology, and some form of compensation?.

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madmonster*    14

I have to say there is one bit of your response I also fundamentally don’t agree with.

 

I accept that people would have all manner of excuses of why they need more than one ticket – friends & family coming later, people in toilets, people in other queues, I've got a train to catch, I have to be somewhere at this time.... etc.

 

I’ll even accept that our society is in a dour state.

 

BUT I refuse to accept that people coming up to you saying “please may I have a ticket for my DISABLED friend’ and lying about it, is common occurrence.

 

I therefore suggest that these tricks do not exist anywhere, apart from in your imagination.

 

This person obviously had a pretty awful day, because of the incorrect procedures in place. Now you have the nerve to say ‘you should have seen us at the event’, and a pathetic argument here defending the indefensible.

 

We both recognise that there were serious failings – so can this poor woman now expect an official apology, and some form of compensation?.

 

 

You would be surprised. As a regular member of crew I have even had someone come up to me in a wheelchair saying that they couldn't queue for long and would I be so kind as to let them join the queue early. I then saw the very same person at the party later that evening dancing!!!

 

We have people who "borrow" friends crutches to jump the queue as it is known that we normally bend over backwards for people with a disability.

 

So I'm sorry but unless we see someone with a wheelchair then we will generally ignore requests for that "extra VQ", knowing that if a wheelchair user comes up to us later to join the queue with just one ticket we will always let both the person in the wheelchair and their helper through.

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stobbs    69

BUT I refuse to accept that people coming up to you saying “please may I have a ticket for my DISABLED friend’ and lying about it, is common occurrence.

 

I therefore suggest that these tricks do not exist anywhere, apart from in your imagination.

 

lol, of course 'some' people would say that if they think it will give them the advantage of grabbing another ticket.

hopefully one day you'll wake up in the real world, its not all puppies and roses you know.

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DavidB    1,955

As with QS, I don't speak for Showmasters, but as a crew member (like many on here) I can certainly confirm people pull all kinds of tricks to get extra VQ tickets etc so no-one is making anything up or imagining it.

 

We're not 'over-cautious' for fun - it's because some people simply take the p!ss. It's a shame it comes down to that, and that we have to make totally sure with all people just because of a few who take advantage.

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Queen_Sindel    3,319

BUT I refuse to accept that people coming up to you saying “please may I have a ticket for my DISABLED friend’ and lying about it, is common occurrence.

 

I therefore suggest that these tricks do not exist anywhere, apart from in your imagination.

 

If you don't believe in what I am saying, this is of course your choice.

 

People do come up with the most stupid excuses to get another ticket.

 

Do you honestly think if anyone saying "I need a ticket for my disabled friend" will get another ticket without being questioned, there will be not a large number of people who will be abusing the system?

 

 

This person obviously had a pretty awful day, because of the incorrect procedures in place. Now you have the nerve to say ‘you should have seen us at the event’, and a pathetic argument here defending the indefensible.

 

First: I am not "defending the indefensible". I have stated countless times that what happened was not right, and that there should be procedures in place. How often do you want to hear that?

 

However I do say that all this aftermath of the "indefensible" could have been prevented.

Yes, I do have the nerve to say "you should have seen someone at the event" because this is what my common sense tells me to do in a situation like this: if there's a problem, let someone know. Let someone know right away.

 

I'll give you an example: You give a cashier at the supermarket a 50 pound note, but he only gives you change back for 5. He refuses to acknowledge his mistake or check the till.

Would you go home and complain about the cashier online days later or would you ask for their supervisor and have them check? The majority of people would do what gets them the money back, and ask for a supervisor to check.

 

It's similar here: if a crew member did not act accordingly in your eyes, ask for a pit boss. The crew members only do what they are being told.

 

We both recognise that there were serious failings – so can this poor woman now expect an official apology, and some form of compensation?.

 

BFR (who apparently was the crew member in question) has already apologized - and I'm honestly not sure what form of compensation you'd expect?

Edited by Queen_Sindel

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grawlix    0

I believe you when you say there is a whole range of reasons why people deem it necessary to have more tickets – and believe some of them are quite complex, and comical.

 

But I stand by my view that they do not regularly say my friend is disabled. [i’m not arguing for people on crutches, broken arms, legs etc]

 

This isn’t about queue jumping, or joining the queue early [both I would agree with you would be unfair]; this is about allowing a disabled person, with help of their carer, to follow the same procedures as a non-disabled person.

 

Once again on this forum this debate has degenerated into nonsense.

 

 

 

 

Tell me, is Showmasters the only company where you can’t complain about anything AFTER the event. Shouldn’t this be in writing somewhere in the terms and conditions?.

 

So now were in agreement that lack of planning / no policy for disabled people ruined this persons day - isn’t she entitled to some form of compensation as a gesture of goodwill?. :thumbup:

 

Her words:

 

Some people are so ignorant. I mean; how about letting people get Virtual Queue tickets for people in wheelchairs or people who have difficulty queuing? How hard is that? I only got to meet Milo and Adrian because that was the only queue I could bear to stand in and I wasn't allowed to get a ticket for them for my friend who's in a wheelchair who could barely get to the back of the queue, let alone the front. That's the venue's fault is it?

 

And how about a teensy bit of respect from some of the staff? I was spoken to like I was lying about my disability, do you know how sick I am of people doing that? I get it most of my life so I don't appreciate having paid a lot of money for an event and to have people being completely inconsiderate, rude and downright ignorant toward me. I understand they were stressed, but you know what; I've been there. I used to deal with customers one day and what I always knew, was no matter how awful you felt; DONT TAKE IT OUT ON THE CUSTOMERS! You wouldnt like it if it were you.

Edited by grawlix

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Jola    9

BUT I refuse to accept that people coming up to you saying “please may I have a ticket for my DISABLED friend’ and lying about it, is common occurrence.

 

I therefore suggest that these tricks do not exist anywhere, apart from in your imagination.

 

Oh you'd be surprised at how often this does actually happen and it's not imagination on Queen Sindels part! :thumbup:

 

I can see both sides. I'm a carer for my Mum, who is totally disabled and housebound. She has carers frequent her every day and on the rare occasion she now goes out of the house she is in a wheelchair as she can't walk. So I *know* how disgruntled people can be if they're not believed about a disability.

 

Hell, I've had numerous arguments with people when disabled parking spaces are taken up by those NOT disabled at all. But is that a figment of my imagination as normal able bodied people don't ever take up these spaces? It's the same sort of thing. People will always try something on and if it means being as low as lying about a disability, then that's on their conscience.

 

As people have already said on here, when we give out VQ tickets, we do try and use common sense. However, if we can't see the "disabled" person, only one ticket will be issued. We DO however, let through both the carer and the person with the disability on one ticket, as we can then SEE what the situation is. We even try to be as helpful as possible by moving the barriers for ease of wheelchairs going down the line etc.

 

Yes, those with lesser disabilities that aren't always as visual as a wheelchair etc etc is more difficult to establish. But those people do normally speak to a crew member, or a Pit Boss (the ones wearing the red shirts) to explain the situation and it's resolved there and then.

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grawlix    0

I refuse to accept also that there is any correlation between the abuse of disabled parking, and disabled virtual ticket abuse.

 

But I’d also make it clear, I don’t believe that system should be scrapped because of the very few who are abusing the system.

 

Disabled people just want to be treated fairly; this person didn’t want to ‘jump’ the queue they didn’t want to bend the rules. They just wanted to participate.

 

I would guess - if they had been politely directed to a ‘pit boss’, in order to authorise the request, or understand the ‘unofficial rules regarding disabled people and their helpers’ – they would have been more than happy to do so.

 

As it was they had their disability rudely questioned, they were basically accused of lying, and it spoilt their day.

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Psychosis    4

You are being very unreasonable about this. I know people who pretend to have disabled friends to do things like this. I worked at a cinema and had to take all manner of excuses, including that one. I've seen people come in on wheelchairs so that their friend can get in for free as their helper, and then WALK out at the end. If someone would do that to see a movie, they would sure as hell do it to meet an actor in said movie/TV show.

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Trialia    1

I want to know what in the hell I'm supposed to be able to do to 'prove' my main physical disability (I have several!), since it's not usually visible unless I've been on my feet for some time and am limping.

 

If I asked a friend to get a VT for me, they probably wouldn't be allowed to, under the guidelines I've read here. What's with that? Why put those of us out who really do have these issues because some idiots decide to abuse the system? That's just not fair.

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