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dufresne

A message for the complainers

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Having a look at the list of cancellations, I can't help but notice that ten of them were headliners...and two of them have pulled out in the past. Looks like another case of hook, 'em, reel 'em in...and the bait disappears. When Bill Nighy was first announced I turned to my husband and said, "It would be nice if it actually happened but, being Showmasters, do you think it will?" Huh. Turns out, I was right. Of course, I've had how many conventions now to base this opinion on? How many times have the headliners pulled out? Too d**n many.

Might I suggest that by definition the headliners are a mixture of the latest hot property in the TV/fim world, and established and well-respected members of that same fraternity. As such, aren't they more likely to be the ones in demand and frequently offered employment? I'm goig to guess that Bill Nighy (or at least his agent on his behalf) gets rather more offers of work than somebody who was dressed in some strange costume in a bar scene in a Star Wars movie (and no offence to any such actors).

Does that not make it rather more likely that headliners will cancel then, since they will almost certainly have more chance of competing work turning up?

Just a thought...

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I'm speaking from my experience and opinion and I found many of the crew members in that area disagreable. There were one or two people who were delightful, including a very cheerful girl at the front of Adrian Pasdar's line, but the majority of the people I had interactions with were as I described above.

 

Although I have had issues with crew previously. I found them all very pleasant this time round, especially the blonde lady standing in front of Milos queue with the writing on her shirt and the guy and girl organising the photo queue for Milo and Adrian were cheerful and nice despite being under obvious stress.

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I have refrained from saying anything on this subject for quite some time now (not just on LFCC, but all events - I'll only deal with LFCC for now) but I feel I have to break my silence now.

 

The Venue - We all know there were issues with the venue - lighting, layout, lack of seats, expensive food etc. - and although they've been mentioned before, no one has the right to tell people they can't mention these things again if they're not happy about it. With this being a country which allows free speech, people are allowed to express their opinions.

 

The Guests - Several points here.

One: Guests cancel. It's a fact of life. Their work schedules may change, they may have other commitments, their agent may have double-booked them... whatever the reason may be, you may see an announcement on here that says they are no longer attending an event. Yes, it's a disappointment, but I really don't think it's some kind of conspiracy against the attendees to get their money.

Two: "SM don't even try to get so-and-so" - how do you know? Are you there with them in the office all the time to check? Perhaps the star in question is very busy, or just doesn't do conventions. It's a perfectly logical explanation. It's because the guests aren't able/don't want to attend, not because SM hate you.

Three - Every guest is different. Some people love to have a chat with the fans, share stories and generally have a good time. Others prefer just to greet, sign and move onto the next person. Whatever their preference, there isn't much SM can do about it. Also, a guest who would love to be really chatty may be very busy and not have time to be like that, so don't automatically assume they've been really 'off' with you.

 

The Crew - I personally have only ever had good experiences with members of the SM crew and have found them to be very helpful. However, I know this is not true for everyone and some people have had bad experiences. Why are people coming out with statements along the lines of, "Oh that can't be true because I've always found the crew to be nice". Humans make mistakes, sometimes they do get frustrated or annoyed, especially in stressful situation - but when they are being paid not to for a particular time, any annoyance or frustration towards event-goers isn't acceptable. If someone had a bad experience with one of my employees, I'd want to know about it so it could be sorted out. Just don't make blanket statements about all of the crew members in that particular area.

 

Early Bird Tickets - I feel very strongly about this particular one. To the people who complain that the pre-paid tickets should have been let in first because those are the loyal SM fans or they booked in advance or they won't be newbies fumbling about and being lost - what on earth are you talking about? I've been to many SM events, as well as others, and I still don't usually buy my tickets until the day of the event. I used to pre-book when I was still at school and knew exactly when my holidays were and how much money I would have in my savings. Now that I'm living alone and having to manage my time/money around my flat and college, I don't buy my tickets in advance (or pay for anything in advance, actually) in case I end up not being able to make it to the event. That way I won't lose any money. I still get up very early and go down to the event to queue with everyone else, and I still pay the same amount of people who have pre-booked - so why should I have to wait until they're all inside with the low VQ numbers before I'm allowed in? What would make them so much better than me? And to the person who said the pay-on-the-day people would still be fumbling about with money or whatever? Surely then, that means you'll get in before them anyway, therefore voiding your point?

 

I'm sure I've missed some points, but I can come back and cover them later if I have to.

 

You're all bickering like schoolchildren when in fact, I presume, you're all adults who should be able to sort things out in a civilised manner. I'm not one of the people who will defend absolutely everything Showmasters do no matter what, but I also don't want to see them being rubbished outright as there are a lot of things people are doing right. I think both sides of the argument really need to step back and take a breather. To those complaining - try to avoid blanket statements, but there is not reason why you shouldn't voice your opinions if you do it calmly and politely without being aggressive. To those defending/complaining-about-the-complaining - back off! You're saying that these people are being aggressive, but then you're responding aggressively! People are allowed their opinions and if they're going about it the right way, you don't have the right to stop them.

 

I feel sad that it's come to this. I'm sure I'm many, many years younger than most of you and yet I'm sat here watching you fight like infants and I'm left to try and be the mature one. It's just turned into a slanging match, in this topic and several others.

Edited by TurkFox

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I didn't have any problems with the crew. At Collectormania11 I found some crew members around the busiest queues very abrupt and off putting but I've got no complaints with the crew at LFCC this year. Maybe it's because I was meeting everyone early on in the morning but I was there for the Great Stampede of '07 and I thought the crew handled things well considering the insanity.

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Early Bird Tickets - I feel very strongly about this particular one. To the people who complain that the pre-paid tickets should have been let in first because those are the loyal SM fans or they booked in advance or they won't be newbies fumbling about and being lost - what on earth are you talking about? I've been to many SM events, as well as others, and I still don't usually buy my tickets until the day of the event. I used to pre-book when I was still at school and knew exactly when my holidays were and how much money I would have in my savings. Now that I'm living alone and having to manage my time/money around my flat and college, I don't buy my tickets in advance (or pay for anything in advance, actually) in case I end up not being able to make it to the event. That way I won't lose any money. I still get up very early and go down to the event to queue with everyone else, and I still pay the same amount of people who have pre-booked - so why should I have to wait until they're all inside with the low VQ numbers before I'm allowed in? What would make them so much better than me? And to the person who said the pay-on-the-day people would still be fumbling about with money or whatever? Surely then, that means you'll get in before them anyway, therefore voiding your point?

 

 

I do totally understand your point, whoever gets there the earliest should get in the earliest, but I did think as a pre-payer I would get in first (now I know for future) and I think cos the FAQ said this below, it gave some people the idea they would be in before those who didn't have a ticket. I am not says it says that exactly or it's misleading, but it could be read that way and that is actually what I thought, they people would have to buy their tickets, then join the queue, not buy them and go straight in. When I got there I did think "why did I bother pre-paying I would get in earlier if I hadn't" but as I say, I know now for future. But I really see both sides of the argument / confusion.

 

SUNDAY....

At 10am the doors open:

Q1: Will be let in first.

Q2: Those with early-bird tickets will go straight in.

Q3: Those wanting early-bird tickets will go to the ticket desk to buy tickets.

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Everyone has the right to complain without facing masses of insults from others, if you don't like what there saying, why don't people just leave it?

Some people are so far up SM's arses, I'm convinced SM's pay them to put in a good word.....

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Everyone has the right to complain without facing masses of insults from others, if you don't like what there saying, why don't people just leave it?

Some people are so far up SM's arses, I'm convinced SM's pay them to put in a good word.....

 

Or they feel they have a slightly better understanding of the events, and don't make unrealistic demands or have unrealistic expectations etc. Of course I'm not applying that to all the 'complainers', and feedback is fine, but if it's going to be posted on a public forum then people are going to reply ..

 

The best thing for anyone to do if they wish to complain without a reply is to either complain at the event itself, or email/phone Showmasters.

 

And saying people are up SM's arses isn't really going to help anything is it :P

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people are allowed to complain and others don't have the right to stop them.

 

People have a right to complain just as much as people have a right to praise because they are both opinions.

 

I'm not complaining nor praising as I wasn't at the con but I am interested in hearing what I missed out on, good or bad cos I'm a paying customer who benefits from knowing what to expect at future shows.

 

Some people are so far up SM's arses
There should be a word for them; how about "SMarsesholes"? :P

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Everyone has the right to complain without facing masses of insults from others, if you don't like what there saying, why don't people just leave it?

Some people are so far up SM's arses, I'm convinced SM's pay them to put in a good word.....

 

Okay, so you expect to be given the right to complain and not get insulted, but yet you insult others who did not have issues, and most have even tried to explain things to some people who had issues?

 

As David said, statements like these are really helping - not.

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Hi again

 

I've commented on a number of issues/problems that we encountered, but I wanted to add that the Crew were terrific on the day.

 

Despite the numbers and obvious stress involved with the VT's everyone was helpful and (on the whole) pleasant.

 

My only issue was with the inconsistencies we noticed - some crew handing out many VT's to the one person, different information about VT's for children and some people joining queues without VT's (I witnessed this in the Dom queue).

 

But I can't fault the crew's attitude or enthusiasm and they should be commended by Showmasters.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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If the lights were the venue's fault and not Showmasters then Showmasters should have selected a better venue. It is up to them where it's held, isn't it? Or would you like to put that blame on someonen else as well?

Actually, as people have said, they DID book somewhere else, so the blame IS on someone else.

It was originally booked for Earls Court 2 again, but the Earls court booking people shafted us and moved us into Earls court 1. You may or may not have noticed but all weekend there were TWO events in EC2, some Hong Kong event thing and some jewelery show, meaning we could never have gotten in there. As someone said, it was either put up with EC1 under the circumstances, or cancel the whole event..then how many happy people do you think there would have been full stop, regardless of any problems that actually happened.

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Everyone has the right to complain without facing masses of insults from others, if you don't like what there saying, why don't people just leave it?

Some people are so far up SM's arses, I'm convinced SM's pay them to put in a good word.....

 

Okay, so you expect to be given the right to complain and not get insulted, but yet you insult others who did not have issues, and most have even tried to explain things to some people who had issues?

 

As David said, statements like these are really helping - not.

 

So as soon as someone has a negative opinion it gets shot down?

Just being honest....

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Everyone has the right to complain without facing masses of insults from others, if you don't like what there saying, why don't people just leave it?

Some people are so far up SM's arses, I'm convinced SM's pay them to put in a good word.....

 

Okay, so you expect to be given the right to complain and not get insulted, but yet you insult others who did not have issues, and most have even tried to explain things to some people who had issues?

 

As David said, statements like these are really helping - not.

 

So as soon as someone has a negative opinion it gets shot down?

Just being honest....

 

 

your last remark didn't make matters any better....and that is what has probably got some peoples backs up..

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Now, I want to thank all of the geniunely pleasant and helpful crew members. You were life savers. The rest of you-and I'm talking specifically about the crew members between Patrick Stewart and Adrian Pasdar-you were rude, arrogant and pushy. How dare you treat us all like a bunch of naughty school children and how dare you bully us. I was surprised by the number of foul tempered crew members I encountered on the Sunday. Several were downright aggressive. Here's a tip: If you don't want to do the job, don't volunteer for it.

 

Lucky for Showmasters my 6ft, no-nonsense husband was not waiting in these queues because, if someone had pushed him around the way they pushed ME around, I don't doubt that he would have lost his temper, responding to this assault-and, yes, crewmembers, laying hands on someone the way you did is legally classified as assault-with assault.

 

I'm not going to be as nice as Roxy.

 

Madam, how *dare* you cast such a blanket statement and threat out like that.

 

I was between Patrick Stewart and Adrian Pasdar on Sunday morning, specifically at the head of Dominick Monaghan's queue.

 

I neither manhandled anyone, nor cursed at anyone, and neither was I aggressive - to the point that several of the nicer attendees literally asked me how we put up with the people with attitudes like yours.

 

By the tone of your post, you are certainly not adverse to complaining, and I can think of absolutely no reason why you would not have reported rudeness or assault immediately to either a pitboss or the information desk.

 

This was an event with an extraordinary turnout, and the real heroes of this weekend were the crew - many of which had to put up with being sworn at, kicked, punched and spat upon, and I take a very personal offence to your blanket statement that the people looking after the busiest guest area since Collectormania 4 were not up to the task.

 

 

We crew these events because we enjoy doing so - it's attitudes like yours that can potentially put people off crewing next time, leaving the event short handed and in an even bigger mess.

 

 

 

 

Brendon.

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Have you noticed how people who complain because they didn't get what they wanted, when they wanted, how they wanted. This is ShowMasters - not Burger King :P

 

Things are done the way they are for a reason - and the vast majority of the time, they work fantastically well. The event was busy - whatcha gonna do ? If you want the big guests, you have to put up with this kind of thing.

 

Unfortunately (or not) the popularity of Heroes seemed to bring in scores of SM (if not con) virgins, who's lack of understanding of the system seemed to cause issues along the way. Like the group who wouldn't move from Hayden's area in case they missed her - even though they were a few hundred away from their VT number :pyth:

 

We really have enough threads now saying that it was a dark, badly laid out hall, or that the food was expensive, or it was packed - let's agree to agree on all that type of stuff. Most of the other stuff is just the toys being thrown out of the pram because people want more than they can reasonably expect, or didn't persue what they wanted in the appropriate manner.

 

The photoshoots are JUST that - click, move, click, move, click, move ..... anyone going in expecting chats, hugs or any sort of "quality time" will always be disappointed - and that is PERFECTLY REASONABLE. take a bit of responsibility for your actions people !

 

Wanting the on the day early birds admitted after pre-paid early birds (which you just happen to have) is an unreasonable request.

 

Complaining that you didn't meet Milo, but someone with a gold pass got their friend a lower VQT and they met him ? Unreasonable.

 

Screaming generally how someone you don't know got something you awanted ... by whatever means .... is unreasonable !

 

and expecting anything more than a photo from a photoshoot, or an autograph from a signing is .... guess what .... unreasonable :P

 

Having said that, the possible improvements we all posted after last years show were ignored.

 

Some tables at which to re-gather your freshly signed item(s) ? - NO!

Somewhere to sit other than the talk area ? - NO

Reasonably priced food of better quality ? - erm no !

 

I can't find that thread from last year just now, but these were some of the suggestions made. There certainly seemed to be enough room to provide such things ....

 

If i'm disappointed because of Showmasters, i'm not disappointed because of you... :lol:

Always the same... :smile:

What you're doing with this topic is a enormous caricature of little problems...

Perhaps it's for you the best solution so that we could not speak about the true problems...

Congratulations :YAHOO:

Continue to S.. SM, everybody have a destiny and perhaps it's your destiny :P

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Now, I want to thank all of the geniunely pleasant and helpful crew members. You were life savers. The rest of you-and I'm talking specifically about the crew members between Patrick Stewart and Adrian Pasdar-you were rude, arrogant and pushy. How dare you treat us all like a bunch of naughty school children and how dare you bully us. I was surprised by the number of foul tempered crew members I encountered on the Sunday. Several were downright aggressive. Here's a tip: If you don't want to do the job, don't volunteer for it.

 

Lucky for Showmasters my 6ft, no-nonsense husband was not waiting in these queues because, if someone had pushed him around the way they pushed ME around, I don't doubt that he would have lost his temper, responding to this assault-and, yes, crewmembers, laying hands on someone the way you did is legally classified as assault-with assault.

 

I'm not going to be as nice as Roxy.

 

Madam, how *dare* you cast such a blanket statement and threat out like that.

 

I was between Patrick Stewart and Adrian Pasdar on Sunday morning, specifically at the head of Dominick Monaghan's queue.

 

I neither manhandled anyone, nor cursed at anyone, and neither was I aggressive - to the point that several of the nicer attendees literally asked me how we put up with the people with attitudes like yours.

 

By the tone of your post, you are certainly not adverse to complaining, and I can think of absolutely no reason why you would not have reported rudeness or assault immediately to either a pitboss or the information desk.

 

This was an event with an extraordinary turnout, and the real heroes of this weekend were the crew - many of which had to put up with being sworn at, kicked, punched and spat upon, and I take a very personal offence to your blanket statement that the people looking after the busiest guest area since Collectormania 4 were not up to the task.

 

 

We crew these events because we enjoy doing so - it's attitudes like yours that can potentially put people off crewing next time, leaving the event short handed and in an even bigger mess.

 

 

 

 

Brendon.

 

Well bloody said, as crew we do put up with alot of abuse, which most of the time is for things totally out of our hands. At the end of the day, we ourselves are fans & I hope I speak for everyone else when I say, as fans we treat other fans how we would want to be treated. FAIR

 

I wasnt even working near the hero guests this weekend but still got alot of abuse. I think all us crew should be patted on the back for making a stressful event run as smooth as we could.

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Now, I want to thank all of the geniunely pleasant and helpful crew members. You were life savers. The rest of you-and I'm talking specifically about the crew members between Patrick Stewart and Adrian Pasdar-you were rude, arrogant and pushy. How dare you treat us all like a bunch of naughty school children and how dare you bully us. I was surprised by the number of foul tempered crew members I encountered on the Sunday. Several were downright aggressive. Here's a tip: If you don't want to do the job, don't volunteer for it.

 

Lucky for Showmasters my 6ft, no-nonsense husband was not waiting in these queues because, if someone had pushed him around the way they pushed ME around, I don't doubt that he would have lost his temper, responding to this assault-and, yes, crewmembers, laying hands on someone the way you did is legally classified as assault-with assault.

 

I'm not going to be as nice as Roxy.

 

Madam, how *dare* you cast such a blanket statement and threat out like that.

 

I was between Patrick Stewart and Adrian Pasdar on Sunday morning, specifically at the head of Dominick Monaghan's queue.

 

I neither manhandled anyone, nor cursed at anyone, and neither was I aggressive - to the point that several of the nicer attendees literally asked me how we put up with the people with attitudes like yours.

 

By the tone of your post, you are certainly not adverse to complaining, and I can think of absolutely no reason why you would not have reported rudeness or assault immediately to either a pitboss or the information desk.

 

This was an event with an extraordinary turnout, and the real heroes of this weekend were the crew - many of which had to put up with being sworn at, kicked, punched and spat upon, and I take a very personal offence to your blanket statement that the people looking after the busiest guest area since Collectormania 4 were not up to the task.

 

 

We crew these events because we enjoy doing so - it's attitudes like yours that can potentially put people off crewing next time, leaving the event short handed and in an even bigger mess.

 

 

 

 

Brendon.

 

Well bloody said, as crew we do put up with alot of abuse, which most of the time is for things totally out of our hands. At the end of the day, we ourselves are fans & I hope I speak for everyone else when I say, as fans we treat other fans how we would want to be treated. FAIR

 

I wasnt even working near the hero guests this weekend but still got alot of abuse. I think all us crew should be patted on the back for making a stressful event run as smooth as we could.

Not everyone is perfect. I don't know who you are, and I'm not trying to take sides here, as yes some of the crew are great, but a small minoraty arn't, (whether its at an event run by showmasters or not). I've seen them both, people who will find out information for you, even if it means running to the other end of the hall for you, and people who think they know best just cause there a crew member (and thats regardless of whether they have had a bad day or not)

 

 

 

 

 

 

:YAHOO:

LLAP :smile:

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So as soon as someone has a negative opinion it gets shot down?

Just being honest....

 

There's a difference between being 'honest' and saying what you did about people and SM's arses ..

 

Like I said, it's a public forum, and as likely as it is that people will post a negative opinion, it's just as likely someone will reply and disagree. It's going to happen, and no-one's going to stop that really.

 

It is possible for people to understand the workings of an event, and have a different attitude about them, and not attack the organisers without being up their arses. Or is that just a generalisation about people who actually enjoyed themselves?

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I was spoken to a little bit rudely by one crew member (over by the photoshoots - not near the 'big signers') during the entire day on Sunday and considering the absolute melee, some of the pushing and shoving by attendees, the low light and the heat I think that's not bad going. That low light must be the biggest positive mood killer it would be possible to have, then add in some of the more... forceful attendees... I think most people seem to agree that Showmasters made some miscalculations on expected attendance and the *volunteer* crew were probably at the pointy end of those miscalculations as much as the attendees were.

 

Regarding an earlier post.. Assault is a pretty big word to use.... "I don't doubt that he [husband] would have lost his temper, responding to this assault and, yes, crewmembers, laying hands on someone the way you did is legally classified as assault-with assault." - witchybelle4u2

 

Assault is putting someone in immediate fear for their own safety as under s.47 of the Offences Against the Person Act. This fear must be genuine (i.e. a belief not this *might* lead to danger, but that it *will* lead to personal danger). As such, you do not have to touch someone in order to assault them. For example, threatening to unleash a burly husband, if said in front of the crew member concerned on the day itself could in itself constitute an assault if the crew member took such a statement seriously and was put into a state of fear. The moment you touch (outside reasonable human interaction) this is an unlawful application of force and the offence becomes battery, also an offence under s.47 of the Offences Against the Person Act. So Witchybelle4u2 seems, when she goes on to say "I was pushed and shoved by several crew members", to be potentially making an accusation of both assault and battery and if genuine should of course have acted at the time - but now it's probably too late to do anything about it except let Showmasters know who, via description of the person involved, did what, when and where rather than make sweeping statements about *all* crew.

 

ptenbob: Just a quick note - I think you were the person I saw dealing with the Dominic line if you were there all day and I thought your patience was astounding. That was the only autograph I wanted and the struggle through the hordes two or three times to check Dom's VQ numbers was enough to lower my spirits.. being there all day must have been... 'interesting'. Thank you for all your help. It was the one autograph I wanted and you dealt with my slightly panicked query about VTs very clearly indeed.

Edited by Idrillia

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ptenbob: Just a quick note - I think you were the person I saw dealing with the Dominic line if you were there all day and I thought your patience was astounding. That was the only autograph I wanted and the struggle through the hordes two or three times to check Dom's VQ numbers was enough to lower my spirits.. being there all day must have been... 'interesting'. Thank you for all your help. It was the one autograph I wanted and you dealt with my slightly panicked query about VTs very clearly indeed.

 

Thank you for your kind words - but on this occasion, I don't think they're meant for me...

 

I was the big fella at Domnic's end of the line in the morning, the gentleman with glasses at the open end of the line goes by the name of Ian, I believe his forum name is DixonHill (or something thereabouts) - and he's blessed with infinite patience in the face of adversity too!

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Brendon.

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Ah well Brendan... at least you know that someone was appreciating the modicum of sanity prevailing around Dominic's line up area. Hopefully Ian'll see that as well at some point!

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Thank you for your reply. I do apologise if I have personally insulted you but I'm speaking from my experience and opinion and I found many of the crew members in that area disagreable. There were one or two people who were delightful, including a very cheerful girl at the front of Adrian Pasdar's line, but the majority of the people I had interactions with were as I described above.

 

There are many members of the Showmasters crew that we see regularly and find good to speak to. It is not these people and those occasions that I speak of, I hope you understand that.

 

I would also like to meniton that I have read other posts where people have had similar problems with being manhandled and even having the f word used at them so clearly I am not alone.

 

It's always sad to hear something like that, please believe me when I say as objectively as possible I find the crew that I know to be a bunch of sincere hard-working people who do what they do for the best reasons. As has been mentioned already it was an extraordinary day with extraordinary circumstances, and the majority of people that I was aware of around me were under great duress but gave it their all to make sure everything went smoothly. However I understand that sometimes things do happen, and if someone behaved inappropriately for any reason then the best and most constructive recourse would have been to take the facts to the nearest pit boss or to approach the information booth with details of the incident, so the matter could be dealt with there and then and addressed for future reference.

 

It's good to hear you've had good experiences before as well as on the day, hope you continue to do so at future events.

Edited by roxy

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There will always be problems and eys you willa lways egt one or two over selous memebr sof staff, but on the whole they were fantastic( especially Roxy if she is the woman I rmeber tlaking to infront Haydens line).

 

It sbeen and gone now dont starts flames because something got misconstrued or you got annoyed casue some one said somehting you didnt like. Hell if I did that either I or some one else would end up being hospitalised every other day gicen the rough area I live in :D

 

Life's too short let it go, verbal and physcial absuse gets you no where.

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If there are genuine complaints with crew members - and I mean specific ones - then people should just either go to the information/organisers desk on the day, or contact Showmasters directly after the show.

 

There's no real need to post on here with generalisations which will end up annoying a few people once they read it. We know the crew isn't perfect, and things do go wrong, but it's not that useful to just lump everyone into one group and criticise them.

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