choc1 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Rowan and Woodyelf in particular, You seem to be incredibly hostile towards us. I am amazed that you cannot even seem to open your minds to the fact that you do not know the whole situation and that maybe we have done nothing wrong. You seem to believe everything that you are being fed by certain other people. Why don't you wait until you have the full story before becoming so hostile? We will be making a proper comment on all this soon, but only when it is professional for us to do so! When that happens, I think you may feel that an apology is in order, and also a re-evaluating of your position. Mark I have been reading, and knowing the background I just cannot understand your defence, nor understand how you can defend your position with half truths. If the truth ever came out Rowan and Woodyelf would not have to apologise to anyone. However, the total truth will never come out without your spin. On the face of it, this can be explained away as coincidence, and as normal business. However, the strategy of deliberately causing another event or events as much pain as possible in the hope that they will fold is extremely bad business sense. And if you ever actually admitted that this is your real purpose, you would lose a few customers, not many admittedly, but anyone who read the boards would lose all respect for you. You can throw as much money at your event as you like, but the event that is happening at exactly the same time as LLFCC2 is sold out. Most of those 800 people would have attended your event if it was happening at another time due to your line up, and would have spent truckloads of cash at your event. Attendees may take offence at this business practice, but the only people you are hurting financially are yourselves, and the actors affected. No one in the UK will touch them with a barge pole if they get a reputation for breaking agreements. Quote - But that's the point isn't it, the organiser of the other con has done nothing wrong. He has had the rug pulled from underneath him by having not just one, but two of his guests approached to renege on their agreements and join LFCC. If you can't see that this is wrong, then IMHO the whole world is losing it's morals- end quote The CURRENT count is 2 guests, I'm sure it will turn out that more have been approached to break their agreement with the other event and come to LLFC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS !! Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I'm sure they wont Obviously you probably need to take legal advice and why wouldn't you. You can please some of the people all the time and all of the people some of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynskyn1 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 (edited) Are they freely giving away this information on another events forum as I know SM wont even comment on a guests until they are signed up and it sounds like the orgraniser of the other event is posting everything that happens regarding the guests in their forum which seems rather strange to me. No as with SM the guests are only introduced on the event page as and when they commit. Hence the initial guests were posted in FEBRUARY when they committed. Since then a couple have unfortunately had to withdraw because of work commitments which happens as we all know, and have no problems with. We all have to work. But this situation is totally different. How would you feel if an agent came along and started poaching guests which you were about to see at an upcoming SM event. And answer truthfully, because if this is the way that things are to be in the future, then it may happen to SM as easily as it has done at the other event this time. Edited September 17, 2004 by Lynskyn1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I dont think Torri has much to do with this poaching business any more, she is not giving up the another event to attend LFCC2 so I dont see a problem there, people who were going to the other event she is attending can still meet her along with other great Stargate guests including Amanda who I would love to meet. The problem I am beginning to understand is that certain Stargate guests already announced for another event being held the same weekend have been approached by someone seeing if they would be willing to attend LFCC2 instead of the event they are already signed up too. Now I can understand how this can cause alot of bad feelings, if I had paid alot of money to meet certain guests and then found out they would not be attending I would be upset too but at the moment that hasent happened, to my knowledge no guest at the other event has cancelled to attend LFCC2 and at the moment it is all talk about guests being approached but as of this moment nothing has changed, the same guests will still be attending the other event and fans who paid to go to that event will still be meeting the same guests they always were going to meet. Now if this changes in the next few weeks then that is different but at the moment there really is no need to continue this line of talk, why not talk about something that actually relates to Torri considering this is here thread, like do you think she will take over the previous actress character well? From the episodes of Atlantis I have seen I couldnt imagine anyone else playing the part and my sister who is a stargate fan loves Atlantis and is really looking forward to meeting her and the others. Thanks to you and everyone trying to discuss this sensibly. Hopefully the other con with Torri will not be badly effected by this. But their ticket sales could be effected. My personal issue is more that the organisers of that con have been positive about Showmasters in the past. They probably could have worked something out for her to appear at both shows. Showmasters prefered to go behind their back. As for the situation with Chris... I can see why you would want to leave it until we see what happens. But some of us want to prevent things happening. If we left it and Chris did choose to go to LFCC then that would be the end of him appearing at probably 2 other organisers shows. By letting our opinions be known publically maybe we can prevent that. I'm not against Chris appearing at a future Showmasters event. In fact I hope he does, for the sake of the fans here that like their kind of show and would rather see him at Showmasters. But him appearing at LFCC this time would really benifit no-one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showmasters Admin showmasters Posted September 17, 2004 Author Showmasters Admin Share Posted September 17, 2004 Rowan and Woodyelf in particular, You seem to be incredibly hostile towards us. I am amazed that you cannot even seem to open your minds to the fact that you do not know the whole situation and that maybe we have done nothing wrong. You seem to believe everything that you are being fed by certain other people. Why don't you wait until you have the full story before becoming so hostile? We will be making a proper comment on all this soon, but only when it is professional for us to do so! When that happens, I think you may feel that an apology is in order, and also a re-evaluating of your position. Mark I have been reading, and knowing the background I just cannot understand your defence, nor understand how you can defend your position with half truths. If the truth ever came out Rowan and Woodyelf would not have to apologise to anyone. However, the total truth will never come out without your spin. On the face of it, this can be explained away as coincidence, and as normal business. However, the strategy of deliberately causing another event or events as much pain as possible in the hope that they will fold is extremely bad business sense. And if you ever actually admitted that this is your real purpose, you would lose a few customers, not many admittedly, but anyone who read the boards would lose all respect for you. You can throw as much money at your event as you like, but the event that is happening at exactly the same time as LLFCC2 is sold out. Most of those 800 people would have attended your event if it was happening at another time due to your line up, and would have spent truckloads of cash at your event. Attendees may take offence at this business practice, but the only people you are hurting financially are yourselves, and the actors affected. No one in the UK will touch them with a barge pole if they get a reputation for breaking agreements. Quote - But that's the point isn't it, the organiser of the other con has done nothing wrong. He has had the rug pulled from underneath him by having not just one, but two of his guests approached to renege on their agreements and join LFCC. If you can't see that this is wrong, then IMHO the whole world is losing it's morals- end quote The CURRENT count is 2 guests, I'm sure it will turn out that more have been approached to break their agreement with the other event and come to LLFC2. There are many people on here that have never posted before, and for whatever reason, some seem intent on just making trouble or bashing us or certain guests, when they do not have the full facts. I also understand that you are entitled to your opinions, and I am not trying to stop that, as if I wanted to I could just delete the whole thread. I would just have hoped that people would not feel the need to be so aggressive when there is more information needed. We are not going to be pressured into making a statement until it is professional for us to do so, and until we have permission to do so. Until then, I am afraid that you will all have to make the decision to either continue your debate without knowing the full facts, or to wait until you are made more aware of what has happened. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandalf the Black Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Rowan and Woodyelf in particular, You seem to be incredibly hostile towards us. I am amazed that you cannot even seem to open your minds to the fact that you do not know the whole situation and that maybe we have done nothing wrong. You seem to believe everything that you are being fed by certain other people. Why don't you wait until you have the full story before becoming so hostile? We will be making a proper comment on all this soon, but only when it is professional for us to do so! When that happens, I think you may feel that an apology is in order, and also a re-evaluating of your position. Mark I think that both the members you are attacking here have raised good points. If SM have done nothing wrong then why is it that not just Chris Judge, but 2 other guests going to the other con have been approached by a 3rd party to renege on their appearances, and attend your event. Whilst you may not be doing the 'poaching', for want of a better term yourselves, you are either employing or using a 3rd party who is trying to obtain guests on your behalf. IMHO this makes neither good business or moral sense, as can be seen by the reactions it has caused. Many attendees of the other con, and yes I am one, are now stating that they will never again attend another SM event because of this. They always say what goes around, comes around, and if that is the case, how will SM feel should this kind of 'cut-throat' business practice be used on yourselves in the future. Pretty p*ssed would be my guess. to me, this is similar to the football. one company has the sponsorship, then another, and then another. is that good business or moral sense? films - the owners of the rights to the hobbit arebeing bought by sony (from my limited understanding) and this is because a bigger amount of money was offered. perhaps in these examples a contract has not been signed or is expired - BUT so long as there is sufficient time given before the event, for the guest to pull out of the contract, this is perfectly sensible business practice. and as SM have said, we don't know the facts - perhaps they might be working WITH the other event in an attempt to benifit both parties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choc1 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I don't know all the facts, but I know more than you're letting on right now. I've been to Showmasters events before and the only reason I haven't posted before is that I haven't been motivated to do so before. Anger made me post today. My post is futile really, as the truth will only come out if you want it too. I don't want to pressure anyone into making a statement, you will only do this if you want to. I'm going to make a 2nd pointless point - accusing people of being hostile when they are only being passionate about the business is rather childish. Remember people who are passionate about your guests will spend lots of money on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 and as SM have said, we don't know the facts - perhaps they might be working WITH the other event in an attempt to benifit both parties? Um, you've not read all the threads have you? All I can say is... I wish! I think with all the things both organisers have said about each other... they are oscar winning actors themselves if they are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showmasters Admin showmasters Posted September 17, 2004 Author Showmasters Admin Share Posted September 17, 2004 I'm going to make a 2nd pointless point - accusing people of being hostile when they are only being passionate about the business is rather childish. Actually, it's not a pointless point. I accept it. Some people are just being passionate, and they know who they are. I do have respect for these people, and hope that when everything is known, they will understand what is happening here. If I came across as disrespectful to them, it was not my intention and I apologise. I also know though, that there are a couple of people on here who are ONLY here to stir up trouble, as they have a vested interest in doing so. ( And just for the record, I do not put Rowan or Woodyelf in that catagory ). I hope things will become more clear for you all very soon. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynskyn1 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I'm going to make a 2nd pointless point - accusing people of being hostile when they are only being passionate about the business is rather childish. Actually, it's not a pointless point. I accept it. Some people are just being passionate, and they know who they are. I do have respect for these people, and hope that when everything is known, they will understand what is happening here. If I came across as disrespectful to them, it was not my intention and I apologise. I also know though, that there are a couple of people on here who are ONLY here to stir up trouble, as they have a vested interest in doing so. ( And just for the record, I do not put Rowan or Woodyelf in that catagory ). I hope things will become more clear for you all very soon. Mark I hope you are not including me in this catergory. My sole intention in coming here was to make my point about how disgusted I feel about this whole situation. Perhaps it's just me but the whole thing with agents and selling out to the highest bidder IMHO stinks. And if SM are being offered guests by said agents and accepting them, knowing full well that they are committed to another event, then as I said earlier, where are the morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS !! Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I'm going to make a 2nd pointless point - accusing people of being hostile when they are only being passionate about the business is rather childish. Actually, it's not a pointless point. I accept it. Some people are just being passionate, and they know who they are. I do have respect for these people, and hope that when everything is known, they will understand what is happening here. If I came across as disrespectful to them, it was not my intention and I apologise. I also know though, that there are a couple of people on here who are ONLY here to stir up trouble, as they have a vested interest in doing so. ( And just for the record, I do not put Rowan or Woodyelf in that catagory ). I hope things will become more clear for you all very soon. Mark I hope you are not including me in this catergory. My sole intention in coming here was to make my point about how disgusted I feel about this whole situation. Perhaps it's just me but the whole thing with agents and selling out to the highest bidder IMHO stinks. And if SM are being offered guests by said agents and accepting them, knowing full well that they are committed to another event, then as I said earlier, where are the morals. Like you said its the morals of the STARS and NOT the organisers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynskyn1 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Like you said its the morals of the STARS and NOT the organisers Please read what I said carefully. Yes I'm challenging the morals of the stars if they chasing the mighty $, but also they organisers if they accept guests who they know have already committed to another event. Once this starts to happen then it's open warfare and the main losers, us the fans, because if it happens once to set a precident be sure as hell that it will spiral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS !! Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I personally think you are blowing it all out of proportion, and that it should just be left until Showmasters have posted all the information when ALL the details will be known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choc1 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I'm going to make a 2nd pointless point - accusing people of being hostile when they are only being passionate about the business is rather childish. Actually, it's not a pointless point. I accept it. Some people are just being passionate, and they know who they are. I do have respect for these people, and hope that when everything is known, they will understand what is happening here. If I came across as disrespectful to them, it was not my intention and I apologise. I also know though, that there are a couple of people on here who are ONLY here to stir up trouble, as they have a vested interest in doing so. ( And just for the record, I do not put Rowan or Woodyelf in that catagory ). I hope things will become more clear for you all very soon. Mark Me too. I'm worried that Rowan's noble reason to speak up may be futile too. I fear it is too late for that to get anyone to change their mind. So there is no point me saying anything else till there is a statement from yourselves, Chris, Torri or any of the other 3 organisers. The weekend is approaching and I'm not expecting anything till Monday. Don't get me wrong, what has already happened has made me v angry, but maybe we should take a chill pill and try and enjoy the weekend, safe in the knowledge that there is NOTHING we can do to change anything anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynskyn1 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 (edited) OK - we'll chill and see what happens, but as a final point this should have been the scenario that happened. 1. Agent approaches star and says 'you're in X next month doing this event. But there is another one in the same city, and I'm sure I can get you a better fee for that. What do you think?' 2. Star says'OK, go for it nothing to lose' (except integrity) 3. Agent approaches 2nd event organiser says ' so and so is appearing at X next month, but if you offer $$$$$$ then they will appear at your event. What do you think? 4. Organiser says 'Go take a run and jump' Integrity of organiser 100% and if they all told agents to do this the only unhappy people in the world would be the agents. Nuff said Edited September 17, 2004 by Lynskyn1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DavidB Posted September 17, 2004 Moderators Share Posted September 17, 2004 And how do you know the exact monetary details surrounding the situation anyway?! If ur all just "fans" as u call it, then how the hell do u know what financial transactions are involved? That seems a bit dodgy to me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynskyn1 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 And how do you know the exact monetary details surrounding the situation anyway?! If ur all just "fans" as u call it, then how the hell do u know what financial transactions are involved? That seems a bit dodgy to me ... We are just fans, but have been told how these agents are now working. It not too hard to grasp is it? After all we see it everyday in sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3conventions Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Hi everyone, OK, I have just recently joined up, read all the posts, and would like to offer you all the following statement from Level 3 regarding several matters that have come up recently. Firstly, as some of you are aware, Level 3 are on very good terms with many convention organisers around the world AND in the UK, save for the odd few who don't like to 'play nice'. We work with Stargate convention, Gabit events, the French and German City Cons, BOBW and Showmasters. Each of these events are very different, and each offer unique experiences to the fans. That's the whole point of working together to bring a better event for the fans of the shows and movies they love. We share guests, contacts, clients and even advertise each other and support each other's events in any way we can. This then provides a better experience for the fans as well as the talent, and at the same time, prevents us from stepping on each others toes! The European Tour is a full collaboration between three countries that enables the talent to travel from one to the other in one trip and attend three linked events, despite the fact that each event is an entirely separate host. Earlier this year, we also made affiliations with SHOWMASTERS in order to share Amanda Tapping with one of their events. We would not choose to share guests around the same time in the same country, but as SHOWMASTERS' events are vastly different to our own dedicated convention, it was felt that we could work together without impeding each other and develop further relations between us. Therefore, Level 3 agreed to release Amanda Tapping from her contract to allow her to attend another 'friendly' event. Needless to say, we also get reciprocation on the bargain and we thank SHOWMASTERS for being so helpful and considerate to us. They certainly have never impinged on any contractual agreements OR 'poached' any guests from us without first contacting us and asking our permission directly. Recently, it came to our attention that there was a problem with the newly announced shooting schedule for STARGATE. This has prevented Amanda Tapping from doing any other events save those in the European Tour. I announced this recently, only to be given conflicting reports from the production crew at STARGATE as they told me it was second unit filming only and that Amanda COULD do all her shows. SHOWMASTERS did not remove Amanda from their boards immediately until we knew for certain. This has now been confirmed. Amanda is unable to attend SHOWMASTERS but will be with us for the European City Tour, starting with Level 3's London event! Phew! OK, that's the history. Since the original agreement fell through, due to events beyond anyone's control, our agent offered another guest to SHOWMASTERS to replace Amanda. Our agent failed to tell us about this until SHOWMASTERS themselves gave me a courtesy call to let me know and ask if everything was ok. So . . . forget all the previous. This is how it is as of right now! Level 3 have absolutely NO problem whatsoever with SHOWMASTERS, they are good friends of ours and the recent accusations of 'poaching' guests is totally unfounded. Any contracts made between organisers and the talent are legally binding and where no contract has been signed - OR - where a guest has altered his or her own plans, this has lead to confusing issues. Level 3 have allowed SHOWMASTERS to have Torri Higginson at their event instead of Amanda Tapping, as Amanda is unavailable due to filming commitments. Torri wanted to do the event and would have said 'no' had we not agreed to release her to them for that event. We are happy to allow Torri to attend SHOWMASTERS event and this will not impinge on our own. Level 3 will be present at SHOWMASTERS events in person should anyone wish to approach us about it while they are there. Please know that there is no animosity between us and SHOWMASTERS and that those who feel that SM have been unfair or underhanded in any matters should honestly have a little deeper dig into the matter, or better yet . . . ask the TALENT themselves! Honestly, we think you will be very surprised to learn the truth of it all, but it is not our place to discuss it here. Our suggestion to you all, if you have any concerns, is to go directly to the source, ask each party what they have to say on the matter, and then ask the actors themselves. All the best and again, sorry for any confusion! Hope this clears it up. L3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noddy Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Thank You. I plan to get there EARLY. I am coming from Mitcham so what time do you reckon I should arrive. I think 8am should do it??? What time is everybody else getting there. I am a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE ALIENS AND STARGATE FAN so I reaaaallllllllllllllly want to see the cast and the producers of the show as well as the cool alien guests. Mitcham!!! I can see Mitcham from St H!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamps! Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 but maybe we should take a chill pill and try and enjoy the weekend, LOL sorry to barge in again but....................... everyone has stolen my chill pills, i need them back, I gt ever so cranky if i don't have them LOL Ok I'll go back to the pits of hell now!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainbowDisney Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Thankgod all thats cleared up - now can we get back to the original reason for this thread..discussion of Tori and her work !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS !! Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Thanks L3Conventions for putting people straight and I couldn't agree more with you comment of: "Our suggestion to you all, if you have any concerns, is to go directly to the source, ask each party what they have to say on the matter, and then ask the actors themselves." May I wish you all the best with your conventions and hope that you and Showmasters continue to work together for the benefit of us fans for a long time to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lams9999 Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Yes, I hope this will stop all these messages because I was becoming tired with all these stuffs..... But, if I read correctly, that means that Terri appears at LFCC2 instead of Amanda at C6 with courtesy of L3.... therefore probably Amanda won't be at LFCC2 ??? Now I'm just wondering if SGA will be aired in Belgium before 2010 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharliesAngel Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Thanks to L3 for issuing that statement and I can not tell you how happy it makes me to see con organisers working together. It makes such a nice change from certain other conventions that seem to waste lots of time and energy sniping at other con hosts. I think Showmasters you are owed a few apologies. Thanks also for Showmasters for taking the time out to actually discuss this with people :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showmasters Admin showmasters Posted September 17, 2004 Author Showmasters Admin Share Posted September 17, 2004 We are very pleased to have an association with Level 3, and would like to thank Kez for coming on here and setting the record straight regarding the relationship between Showmasters and Level 3, and surrounding Torri's appearance at both events. We will be working more closely with Level 3 in the future, and would like to thank them for being amongst the most honourable fellow event organisers we have worked with. As a general rule we do not endorse other events, as we have no control over them, and so are not able to be sure they are in the fans interests. However, knowing Level 3 as we do, and working increasingly closely with them, we have no hesitation in endorsing their event. If you are looking for a fantastic Stargate weekend, and the only place in this country you'll see Amanda Tapping this year, then look no further than Level 3! Once again, thanks Kez, and all at Level 3, and look forward to seeing you at Collectormania. Mark & Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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