97 replies to this topic

[Rockstar6662]

anam, on Apr 29 2012, 07:08 PM, said:

Do you really think people look at the photo, determine who it is and email it?? Is that what happens when you order a mp3 from iTunes? It's all automated. I can code a system that can match and download images from the server (if named appropriately or tagged according to ticket) within 30 minutes. It's not something HUGE! The only thing here is naming and moving the files appropriately based on the ticket or VQ.

Keep in mind that at the moment the whole process is anonymous. The photographs aren't taken in strict ticket number order, no names or anything are taken and you couldn't just use the details from online orders as some people buy on the day. So currently there's no way of knowing who is in each picture or what ticket number it relates to.

The iTunes analogy isn't really valid as everyone is buying the same thing. In this case you'd need to ensure people only got the picture they were in and not any other, and couldn't buy any other.

If there was more time I guess you could take people's details in the order they go through but you do realise how quickly this happens? It's literally step in, picture, step out, next. There was 3 photo areas all running together at the last LFCC and people were sometimes running from one to the other when they're shoot times clashed. Waiting for people to stop and give email addresses, make sure they've been taken down correctly etc will just lead to delays and hold-ups.

Not saying it's not possible as clearly it's done elsewhere but will probably require a big redesign of the current process. I actually like getting the print at the show which I scan at home and would probably only get the digital versions if included in the price. I spend enough already on all this stuff. If you had say 20 photoshoots (and some people do) and the digital copy was an extra £5, that's another £100 on top of whatever else you're spending. Money better spent on autographs or photos.

The obvious way of doing it to me would seem to be to use the image number printed on the back of each print and use that to log in and identify the pic you want after the event when they've all been uploaded somewhere but how do you ensure the right person gets the right pic and hasn't just guessed numbers for other people? Yes, I don't know why people would do that but if you saw some of things I deal with each day at work it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

These kind of privacy issues have already been discussed in other threads in the past. Just something to consider.

It would be nice if it was an option but as things stand it's not though I'm sure it's something that is on the organisers minds.

TerraHawk, on Apr 29 2012, 07:19 PM, said:

What happens when photos are posted/reprinted? Surely a system that can cope with that could cope with the additional service, at cost.

If people don't collect at the show then they leave a description and people have to match the description to the pictures left over after the show. Some people take passport type photos to attach to their slips which I'm sure helps but that's rare.

All manual and I'm glad I'm not having to do it given how many are sometimes not collected.

Quote

I understand the next big event by a new rival is offering digital.

Thought they were just thinking about looking into it and may have a solution. We'll see soon enough if it's the event I think you're talking about.

[1of2]

As others have mentioned this topic comes up around every event. It is something that SM have looked into, and still are ( I know, I enquire frequently about it myself    ). Until a fully working system is found, that is guaranteed to provide the best possible service to attendees then it will not happen.

I have to admit (sorry) that I have not seen any ideas/suggestions in this thread that have not already been mentioned previously, looked into and deemed unsuitable due to specific reason.

Please keep the suggestions coming though. Personally I hope a system will be found that will enable this  

anam, on Apr 29 2012, 07:08 PM, said:

Do you really think people look at the photo, determine who it is and email it??

That is exactly what happens when reprints are required to be sent out in the post at SM events.

anam, on Apr 29 2012, 07:08 PM, said:

The only thing here is naming and moving the files appropriately based on the ticket or VQ.

Unfortunately it is not the only thing that needs to be considered.

TerraHawk, on Apr 29 2012, 07:19 PM, said:

What happens when photos are posted/reprinted? Surely a system that can cope with that could cope with the additional service, at cost.

Rockstar has already explained the current system. I'm surprised that you have never used it, or seen it mentioned before though. Or don't you have that many photo shoots?

[TerraHawk]

1of2, on Apr 29 2012, 07:43 PM, said:

Or don't you have that many photo shoots?

I've only ever had free or for charity ones that were emailed. They handed a list out whilst we were in the queue, we wrote down our email. Number called out when photo taken, number written on list. Being a free photo there were over 300 in a short period of time.

So whilst a captains one is of no interest to me, for the Bridge photo it might be the clincher.

[Rhianydd]

All I am saying is that this is the system currently operating at the shows.  If/when SM choose to implement a new system, they will tell us all about it.

But for now, this is how it is currently done.  We just go round in circles speculating otherwise.

Edited by Rhianydd, 29 April 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[anam]

Rhianydd, on Apr 29 2012, 08:49 PM, said:

All I am saying is that this is the system currently operating at the shows.  If/when SM choose to implement a new system, they will tell us all about it.
But for now, this is how it is currently done.  We just go round in circles speculating otherwise.

Just because you currently do something does not mean you will keep doing it for 100 years. In few years printed images will be obsolete, will you still only provide printed image then?

1of2, on Apr 29 2012, 07:43 PM, said:

I have to admit (sorry) that I have not seen any ideas/suggestions in this thread that have not already been mentioned previously, looked into and deemed unsuitable due to specific reason.
Please keep the suggestions coming though. Personally I hope a system will be found that will enable this  

Well since you probably already had so many suggestions before, which idea so far seemed the most feasible one but was ruled out for some reason? Maybe we can think of a solution for that particular problem. Just saying....And I keep hearing that everything is done by volunteers and hence hard to implement anything. I can't volunteer manual work but I can certainly help programming/coding a system where we can get to download these images later.

1of2, on Apr 29 2012, 07:43 PM, said:

anam, on Apr 29 2012, 07:08 PM, said:

Do you really think people look at the photo, determine who it is and email it??

That is exactly what happens when reprints are required to be sent out in the post at SM events.

Well in that case can't we similarly request digital copies and you just generate a ticket where an email with encrypted time limited download link is emailed to the recipient (after convention, not during)?? I can certainly help with such system.

[Rockstar6662]

anam, on Apr 30 2012, 12:03 AM, said:

Rhianydd, on Apr 29 2012, 08:49 PM, said:

All I am saying is that this is the system currently operating at the shows.  If/when SM choose to implement a new system, they will tell us all about it.
But for now, this is how it is currently done.  We just go round in circles speculating otherwise.

Just because you currently do something does not mean you will keep doing it for 100 years. In few years printed images will be obsolete, will you still only provide printed image then?

If you think you have a system which can work with the large numbers involved and the speed at which people are dealt with across multiple photo studios, I would suggest rather than get into further argument/discussion on here, contact the organisers directly. I'm sure they'll listen to practical solutions.

Personally I hope printed images never become obsolete. That would be very sad. What would we hang on walls? stick in photo frames? etc. I find I look at photographs far more often when they're printed than when stuck on a hard drive somewhere. But that's just me. Photos, like music, seem to have become another throw-away temporary thing that's not treasured or considered very important anymore.

It would also make getting autographs interesting as most people get those on a 10x8 photo.

Quote

Well since you probably already had so many suggestions before, which idea so far seemed the most feasible one but was ruled out for some reason? Maybe we can think of a solution for that particular problem. Just saying....And I keep hearing that everything is done by volunteers and hence hard to implement anything. I can't volunteer manual work but I can certainly help programming/coding a system where we can get to download these images later.

See above. Contact the organisers directly if you think you can help.

They won't go into details on here about why some ideas won't work, especially if it involves a financial aspect. While we throw some ideas around and some have been noted and actioned to improve things, the kind of change you're talking about would best be discussed directly as there will be process, time, resource and financial implications.

No-one is saying it won't happen or can't happen ever, just that they haven't come up with a sensible, cost-effective and practical solution that fits in with the way the events are structured and scheduled so far.

There are obviously some people who want the digital copy, I'm sure they know this.

Edited by Rockstar6662, 29 April 2012 - 11:44 PM.

[RickGreerUK]

Out of all the ways I've heard not to do it, there are a million ways it could be done, in use all across the world, every day.

I like having a big digital file to play with, maybe so I can thrown in a star trek background and get it printed on a canvas. You lose that quality with scans.

It seems the will isn't there to change the system, that's fair enough, I'm still excited about coming, but I probably won't spend as much on photos.

[BrendaH]

Booking number. It is already attached to an email addy that could be used for security when you log in to download your photo(s). All that is needed is for photographer (or assistant) to match booking number to image number.

With option to still get print if you want to get it autographed (but a small discount if you don't want print)

Less printing = less cost, less volunteer time, less photo booth madness, MORE security ( someone was concerned about digital online security making sure no one else got your photos and yet the current system is that you just point to the one that is yours and they give it to you?)

[BrendaH]

Rockstar6662, on Apr 29 2012, 07:42 PM, said:

I would suggest rather than get into further argument/discussion on here, contact the organisers directly. I'm sure they'll listen to practical solutions.

? Um...I'm new here but I thought the point of these discussions threads was... well... discussion (?)

I think it is important for the organizers to know the level of interest in digital photos. And who knows... with so many brilliant minds (we are *Star Trek* fans, afterall) there is a chance that someone might come up with a feasible solution.

[etmuse]

BrendaH, on Apr 30 2012, 02:53 PM, said:

Booking number. It is already attached to an email addy that could be used for security when you log in to download your photo(s). All that is needed is for photographer (or assistant) to match booking number to image number.

With option to still get print if you want to get it autographed (but a small discount if you don't want print)

Less printing = less cost, less volunteer time, less photo booth madness, MORE security ( someone was concerned about digital online security making sure no one else got your photos and yet the current system is that you just point to the one that is yours and they give it to you?)

What about the people who buy on-the-day? This queue has been a long one at every event I've been to or crewed. If you had to stop and take an email address from every person buying tickets and record this with the ticket(s) they're buying that's just going to slow up the process.

Then add in the time it takes to record each person's number as they enter or leave the photoshoot, then going through the card to select which photos will/won't be printed (based on the recorded numbers) before it is taken to the printers...

It might save a small amount of money, but that's going to be eaten up by the extra volunteers needed to do the extra jobs and keep it all running as quickly as it does now.

(And tbh, I think 'look at photo, look at person pointing at photo, are these people the same?' is a fairly secure method of making sure photos go to the right people)

To be blunt, pretty much every idea that has been suggested in this thread is one that has been suggested, discussed and eventually discarded on a logistical or cost basis in goodness knows how many other threads on this board in the last few years. I think showmasters know there is an interest in digital copies of photos. There just hasn't been a method discovered yet that will work for them without an expensive overhaul of their entire photoshoot system and equipment.

Edited by etmuse, 30 April 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[Yunalesca]

I got a message today from another event I'm going to saying you get your photo handed to you as you leave the area, and a code to downlod it online.

[DavidB]

I don't think anyone's saying it can't be done, but rather everything has to be taken into account before making that decision. No one knows what the quality will be like elsewhere etc, and I've been to other events where I've not been happy at all with on-site printing.

In the end it's down to SM and if they decide it can't be done on an acceptable budget while maintaining quality then they're better off sticking with the tried and tested formula. Better than than half-arsing a new method and messing everything up.

[BrendaH]

etmuse, on Apr 30 2012, 10:12 AM, said:

What about the people who buy on-the-day? This queue has been a long one at every event I've been to or crewed. If you had to stop and take an email address from every person buying tickets and record this with the ticket(s) they're buying that's just going to slow up the process.

Then add in the time it takes to record each person's number as they enter or leave the photoshoot, then going through the card to select which photos will/won't be printed (based on the recorded numbers) before it is taken to the printers...

It might save a small amount of money, but that's going to be eaten up by the extra volunteers needed to do the extra jobs and keep it all running as quickly as it does now.

1) Getting your email: If you didn't register beforehand (we are assuming they won't be sold out by the day of the event?) You fill out a postcard form with your email while you are waiting in the long queue - a card that has a unique number (vs. "booking" number) already printed on it. You write it down if you want digital photos.
2) UniqueID/Image match: 5 sec (if that) per person again, person fills out the form themselves while standing in the queue - 5 second to hand record the image number(s) - or better, spreadsheet/database that auto increments this for you. (someone is at least looking at your ticket at some point already to make sure you paid...)
3) "to select which photos will/won't be printed"
   a) if you mean "are you a person who wants digital/print" you can check which box on your form while standing in the queue for the shoot
   if you mean because the photographer might take a "re-do" and they have to decide which - well, that happens either way, right?

above is a very *manual* process. In another world, you would be pre-registered (even if night before or at a self-kiosk at the event) and you get a pass that you hang around your neck with a barcode  on it that contains *all* of this info, including what tickets you have purchased and the times they are valid for. It's scanned at each photoshoot/autograph/talk, etc. and we do away with "tickets" altogether.


4) "Extra" time: *someone* has to babysit the printers - refilling supplies, making sure everything is functioning, spreading out the photos, manning the photo pick-up booth(s?)... etc. Need to factor that time in as well when compariing print vs. digital. Not that it would go away, but I think that time and number of volunteers would be greatly reduced

There are many, many, ways this can be done; it's done all the time at different events (*especially* at large events) and, for me, it seems crazy (and sad) that it isn't done at a science fiction event.

I like RickGreerUK's comment - let's focus on how it *can* be done; we're supposed to be the forward thinkers!

[BrendaH]

Who can create a poll? It might help to understand the true level of interest.

[Count Fooku]

I suspect SM are aware of the level of demand for digital photos, it comes up before and after every show. The question is more likely to be about the how rather than the why

[etmuse]

BrendaH, on Apr 30 2012, 03:45 PM, said:

3) "to select which photos will/won't be printed"
a) if you mean "are you a person who wants digital/print" you can check which box on your form while standing in the queue for the shoot

Still means that after all the photos are taken, someone has to go through the card and make sure that the right ones are being sent off to be printed.

BrendaH, on Apr 30 2012, 03:45 PM, said:

4) "Extra" time: *someone* has to babysit the printers - refilling supplies, making sure everything is functioning, spreading out the photos, manning the photo pick-up booth(s)

They get printed off-site on professional machines, the event crew run memory cards back and forth to the printers throughout the day. And I think the majority will still want a physical photo even if they get a digital one, so any cut-down on the volunteers needed at the photo pick-up area would be minimal, if at all.

[BrendaH]

etmuse, on Apr 30 2012, 11:05 AM, said:

And I think the majority will still want a physical photo even if they get a digital one

You might be right. I would love to see a poll:

Which would you prefer:
a) Digital file(s) that you can download from a website within 60 days (small discount in price)
2) Print(s), received at event - price as posted
3) Both, even if there might be a small additional fee to get both

I'm sure many would choose option 3 if there was no price differential - because, "why not"

I would choose "A" but then, I'm coming from the States and can see all sorts of hassel to get them back in pristine shape (where I will then place them on my scanner...) I would choose Option A even without a price difference as it would mean not having to take the time to go pick up each photo.

[Rockstar6662]

BrendaH, on Apr 30 2012, 03:05 PM, said:

Rockstar6662, on Apr 29 2012, 07:42 PM, said:

I would suggest rather than get into further argument/discussion on here, contact the organisers directly. I'm sure they'll listen to practical solutions.

? Um...I'm new here but I thought the point of these discussions threads was... well... discussion (?)

Indeed but this thread seems to be just going round in circles. We don't have the detailed knowledge of how the event works behind the scenes (costs, resources etc) to say what suggestions are good or not or are even feasible.

If someone has what they think may be a workable solution I honestly think it would be best to contact the organisers directly to discusss it. Anything people propose on here is rather moot without the involvement of the organisers. My opinion, that's all.

We all know some people want it, I'm sure the organisers know it's wanted but just haven't come up with a solution which works for them yet.

The solutions other organisers have or are implementing may just not be workable in this case, we just don't know.

Quote

I think it is important for the organizers to know the level of interest in digital photos. And who knows... with so many brilliant minds (we are *Star Trek* fans, afterall) there is a chance that someone might come up with a feasible solution.

I'm sure they're fully aware of the interest as this comes up regularly before other events. To make it worthwhile it would probably need to be a solution that could be utilised across all the SM/ME events, not just the Trek one.

But again, while there may be many valid ideas thrown around here, the only way to progress these would be through direct dialog with the organisers as there may be issues we know nothing about to be factored in.

Just saying......

Edited by Rockstar6662, 30 April 2012 - 05:24 PM.

[anam]

BrendaH, on Apr 30 2012, 03:05 PM, said:

Rockstar6662, on Apr 29 2012, 07:42 PM, said:

I would suggest rather than get into further argument/discussion on here, contact the organisers directly. I'm sure they'll listen to practical solutions.

? Um...I'm new here but I thought the point of these discussions threads was... well... discussion (?)

Some people just think a discussion forum is only for discussing things that ONLY THEY find interesting.

Rockstar6662, on Apr 29 2012, 07:42 PM, said:

I would suggest rather than get into further argument/discussion on here, contact the organisers directly. I'm sure they'll listen to practical solutions.

If you don't have anything to contribute or don't like the topic then don't comment, no one is forcing you. Not up to you what we want to discuss.

etmuse, on Apr 30 2012, 03:12 PM, said:

What about the people who buy on-the-day? This queue has been a long one at every event I've been to or crewed. If you had to stop and take an email address from every person buying tickets and record this with the ticket(s) they're buying that's just going to slow up the process.

Each ticket can come with a pre-printed code. You use that code to register your email and details later on the site to receive your pictures. Same code can be used to purchase digital copies directly on the day of the convention. It's not rocket science and this scheme is used at many places. At the booth, the code doesn't even have to be typed in and can be read directly by the barcode which then automatically copies the proper photo image to the USB drive. The code can be a secure pattern so that it cannot be just guessed. Or if we worry about overhead, we can only allow images to be downloaded later from the site using that code.

[1of2]

anam, on Apr 30 2012, 08:04 PM, said:

If you don't have anything to contribute or don't like the topic then don't comment, no one is forcing you. Not up to you what we want to discuss.

Rockstar is offering a suggestion/idea which he is perfectly entitled to do.