70 replies to this topic

[mario_the_apocalypse]

Non-wrestling fans will always dismiss it as smalltime. All they need do is watch Wrestlemania each year to see the tremendous pulling power this "non-sport" has from all over the world.

[BigSi13]

mario_the_apocalypse, on Mar 24 2011, 10:56 PM, said:

As an expert on Wrestling I can unequivocally tell you that you are wrong.

This intrigues me. What makes you an expert on Wrestling?

[18blue78]

Dukegirl01, on Mar 24 2011, 01:29 PM, said:

Ignorant twit....wrestlers are highly trained SPORTSMEN ( and ladies ). I know plenty of wrestlers and they are more sportsmen than most 'sportsmen' !
Try telling a wrestler to his face that he's a dancer !! I won't mourn at your funeral !!  

Sportsmen and sportswomen are participants in competition to determine an unknown result.

How can wrestling be a competition when the moves are choreographed and the results are predetermined?

Yes they do a lot of training and yes they are athletic. But they do not participate in a sport so no they are not sportsmen or sportswomen.

And Dukegirl01 before you start calling people ‘ignorant twits’ maybe you should meet a few dancers. They are some of the most athletic and strongest people you could ever meet, able to perform through unimaginable pain. Unlike wrestlers who fake injury in an attempt to create drama.

[BigSi13]

18blue78, on Mar 26 2011, 10:11 PM, said:

Unlike wrestlers who fake injury in an attempt to create drama.

Let me list a few wrestlers who have "faked" injury in an attempt to create drama...

(By the way, this is a list of genuine injuries sustained, and not fake ones)

1. Steve Austin - neck injury when a piledriver went wrong by Owen Hart due to excessive sweat.

2. Mick Foley - loss of ear, burns, major flesh wounds, major concussions...the list goes on with Mick.

3. Sid Vicious/Justice - broken leg.

4. John Cena - torn pectoral.

5. Christian - torn pectoral.

6. Davey Richards & Christopher Daniels - concussions.

7. Mitsuharu Misawa - Died in ring after taking a belly to back suplex.

The list is positively endless. Matches are predetermined. Moves are not choreographed...matches are mapped out. It would be bordering on impossible to choreograph a match in the way some people suggest. Wrestlers are trained athletes on the whole - some are not so much in the Indies - and learn how to "take a move" if that move involves any sort of impact. So, 18blue78, before stating something, at least make it something that cannot be easily rebuked.

[mario_the_apocalypse]

Simondo, on Mar 26 2011, 10:32 PM, said:

mario_the_apocalypse, on Mar 24 2011, 10:56 PM, said:

As an expert on Wrestling I can unequivocally tell you that you are wrong.

This intrigues me. What makes you an expert on Wrestling?

I like to think of myself as a bit of a wrestling historian. I read every book I can, watch every interview I can, I watch as much action from all corners of the world as I can and I am also involved in the UK Indie scene as a manager so I have been around wrestlers for the past few years. It is one of my major passions.

18blue78, on Mar 26 2011, 11:11 PM, said:

Dukegirl01, on Mar 24 2011, 01:29 PM, said:

Ignorant twit....wrestlers are highly trained SPORTSMEN ( and ladies ). I know plenty of wrestlers and they are more sportsmen than most 'sportsmen' !
Try telling a wrestler to his face that he's a dancer !! I won't mourn at your funeral !!  

Sportsmen and sportswomen are participants in competition to determine an unknown result.

How can wrestling be a competition when the moves are choreographed and the results are predetermined?

Yes they do a lot of training and yes they are athletic. But they do not participate in a sport so no they are not sportsmen or sportswomen.

And Dukegirl01 before you start calling people ‘ignorant twits’ maybe you should meet a few dancers. They are some of the most athletic and strongest people you could ever meet, able to perform through unimaginable pain. Unlike wrestlers who fake injury in an attempt to create drama.

I always thought that the goal of any sportsperson is to be the absolute best at what they do. In Wrestling, you are only given a championship if you are deemed the best by the promoter and able to carry the company. This argument is age old and as I have said before, no Non-Wrestling fan will ever give credit where it is due, but as for "faking injuries" what about all the countless footballers who dive in the penalty box every bloody week?!?!?!?!?!

[DavidB]

Well, I'm not really interested in anyone claiming they're completely right or whatever. It comes across as a bit rude really. I don't mind discussing the possiblities but stating something like that isn't necessary.

[Dukegirl01]

18blue78, on Mar 26 2011, 11:11 PM, said:

Dukegirl01, on Mar 24 2011, 01:29 PM, said:

Ignorant twit....wrestlers are highly trained SPORTSMEN ( and ladies ). I know plenty of wrestlers and they are more sportsmen than most 'sportsmen' !
Try telling a wrestler to his face that he's a dancer !! I won't mourn at your funeral !!  

Sportsmen and sportswomen are participants in competition to determine an unknown result.

How can wrestling be a competition when the moves are choreographed and the results are predetermined?

Yes they do a lot of training and yes they are athletic. But they do not participate in a sport so no they are not sportsmen or sportswomen.

And Dukegirl01 before you start calling people ‘ignorant twits’ maybe you should meet a few dancers. They are some of the most athletic and strongest people you could ever meet, able to perform through unimaginable pain. Unlike wrestlers who fake injury in an attempt to create drama.

Well....I used to be a dancer so I can comment with some authority. As for the wrestling...I've done that too but only gave up when I badly damaged my spine.( Admitted that was a riding accident, not a match.)
I also happen to know a lot of wrestlers and have seen them work through some terrible injuries. My ex finished a match with a broken elbow, a friend finished with a fractured skull and another with a broken neck !! Tell me that's not working through unimaginable pain.
Plus, there are many sports where it's been proved that people have 'thrown' matches/competitions thus meaning it was a predetermined result but it's still considered a sport.
This is why I called you that....you obviously know nothing about wrestling.

[mario_the_apocalypse]

DavidB, on Mar 27 2011, 11:06 AM, said:

Well, I'm not really interested in anyone claiming they're completely right or whatever. It comes across as a bit rude really. I don't mind discussing the possiblities but stating something like that isn't necessary.

Well I'm not interested in people spouting their opinions on subjects that they know nothing about. It comes across as a bit ignorant really. And as I recall you never once discussed the possibilities. Someone else started this thread and you pretty much told them that Wrestling guests weren't a draw and that the UK's previous wrestling conventions weren't successful enough to warent them, which is blatantly wrong!

Please excuse me if I run to the defense of one of my main passions. The last time I checked, pretty much everyone on this forum is a geek of some kind and have probably spent a good portion of their lives having to defend their interests. I really don't expect to see something like wrestling shot down as an inadequacy as it has been on this forum!!! Especially from a moderator!!! I HATE Twilight, but I don't come on here and bash all the Twilight fans. That just wouldn't be cricket now would it!!!

[nosfer2]

To quote Star Wars, "This bickering is pointless". Jason has stated on many occasions that if someone wants to host their own event he is willing to give them help and advice to set it up. If you're so sure that a wrestling event will be a success, why not put your money where your mouth is?

I hope I'm not offending anyone with this post, I just think that the discussion isn't really going anywhere.

[Count Fooku]

Seems to me there is an ideal way to settle this. Get all the people who disagree over this subject to participate in some sort of royal rumble type thing at sportsmania. Whoever wins gets to decide if we have wrestling guests at a future show.

[snot182]

Count Fooku, on Mar 28 2011, 01:30 PM, said:

Seems to me there is an ideal way to settle this. Get all the people who disagree over this subject to participate in some sort of royal rumble type thing at sportsmania. Whoever wins gets to decide if we have wrestling guests at a future show.

this made me laugh

especially as Mario is a big lad, I wouldnt take him on or be able to pick him up, Haha

I do certainly think there is a place for Wrestling guests at an event like these, the are they sports or are they entertainment debate is the pointless one

[DavidB]

If anyone believes SO much in a wrestling event, then I'd absolutely love to see them run one, and good luck to them.

[snot182]

DavidB, on Mar 28 2011, 01:51 PM, said:

If anyone believes SO much in a wrestling event, then I'd absolutely love to see them run one, and good luck to them.

there has been a few successful wrestling cons over here though dude, good line ups as well

[DavidB]

Of course there have, and I'm not denying that. I'm a huge fan, but I'm also aware of the companies that have had financial issues and put MANY fans off from attending. And I'm also aware of a number of companies that have tried and failed due to low ticket costs etc.

So it's just not as simple as saying that they're a sure-fire hit. There's so many things to take into consideration, as with any convention.

It's easy enough for people to sit and say that things would be a guaranteed success etc when it's someone elses money. The number of guests you get people requesting on here, saying "Jason they'll make you loads!" etc, and then they don't even break even. I'm not convinced there's ever a guaranteed success in this business.

[mario_the_apocalypse]

DavidB, on Mar 28 2011, 01:51 PM, said:

If anyone believes SO much in a wrestling event, then I'd absolutely love to see them run one, and good luck to them.

That was never the point though was it. No one was ever challenging Jason or Mark on their events or that they should host a wrestling event or wrestling guests, my beef is with ignorant non-wrestling fanboys jumping on to a conversation giving their ignorant opinions, trying to look educated on a subject that they obviously know nothing about. If I had the money, which I honestly don't, I would love to host a wrestling show and I would giggle my ar$e off all the way to the bank!

[snot182]

DavidB, on Mar 28 2011, 02:14 PM, said:

Of course there have, and I'm not denying that. I'm a huge fan, but I'm also aware of the companies that have had financial issues and put MANY fans off from attending. And I'm also aware of a number of companies that have tried and failed due to low ticket costs etc.

So it's just not as simple as saying that they're a sure-fire hit. There's so many things to take into consideration, as with any convention.

It's easy enough for people to sit and say that things would be a guaranteed success etc when it's someone elses money. The number of guests you get people requesting on here, saying "Jason they'll make you loads!" etc, and then they don't even break even. I'm not convinced there's ever a guaranteed success in this business.

i think they would do better with some wrestling guests at a CM or LFCC than they would do with some other guests they have had in the past though, ceratinly better to and 1 or 2 to a show than run just wrestling specific show

I know they dont want to lose money but Im sure that does happen, why does it not matter when they lose on a Who guest or a Star Wars guest but they wouldnt risk it on a wrestling guest?

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying, SM should give me what I want, Im just putting across an opinion y'know?

[18blue78]

mario_the_apocalypse, on Mar 28 2011, 01:26 PM, said:

That was never the point though was it. No one was ever challenging Jason or Mark on their events or that they should host a wrestling event or wrestling guests, my beef is with ignorant non-wrestling fanboys jumping on to a conversation giving their ignorant opinions, trying to look educated on a subject that they obviously know nothing about.

Well, in the interest of keeping this forum a friendly place, how about we just agree to disagree before the name calling gets someone in trouble with the moderators eh?

[mario_the_apocalypse]

18blue78, on Mar 28 2011, 02:59 PM, said:

mario_the_apocalypse, on Mar 28 2011, 01:26 PM, said:

That was never the point though was it. No one was ever challenging Jason or Mark on their events or that they should host a wrestling event or wrestling guests, my beef is with ignorant non-wrestling fanboys jumping on to a conversation giving their ignorant opinions, trying to look educated on a subject that they obviously know nothing about.

Well, in the interest of keeping this forum a friendly place, how about we just agree to disagree before the name calling gets someone in trouble with the moderators eh?

I agree  

[DavidB]

I'm just not a big fan of a statement like "As an expert on Wrestling I can unequivocally tell you that you are wrong" ..

I think if we're going to be discussing with anyone - whether it be those who are wrongly against you, or actually on the same side like I am - you probably want to be a little more open with the discussion. That's all

It's clear that you're very passionate about it, which is great.

[mario_the_apocalypse]

DavidB, on Mar 21 2011, 10:32 PM, said:

Unfortunately successful in the US doesn't always translate well over here - for example, horror is huge over there but not as popular here.

A number of wrestling cons have happened over here but they've never been huge.

Because you are so quick to forget, this was your original quote.

My argument with you is that Wrestling is MASSIVE in this country.

Also, the number of Wrestling cons that have happened over here that you have claimed were never huge, were indeed HUGE!!! As far as specialised conventions go, as aposed to more general shows ala Collectormania and London Film and Comic Con, they were arguably bigger than any other con I have attended in the UK. In fact, the only cons I have heard of that are apparently bigger are the Twilight and L Word cons.

So, I stick by my original statement that you are unequivocally wrong.

You may be wondering why I seem a little more angry than this conversation probably warrents and that is because the previously mentioned Wrestling Cons were the highlight of my annual convention calender and the only reason why they don't run anymore is because of a stupid mistake made by the convention organisers. Now, not only do I and hundreds of other Wrestling fans have to miss out on our annual treat, but we also have to put up with the likes of you and other naysayers, with your opinions which as past cons have proved are indeed wrong, telling us that Wrestlers may not be as huge over here as they are in the states. And you are a Moderator too, so you should know better by checking your facts before blurting out statements.

So, I will make one final statement and then I will back out of this pointless argument for the second time - Given the right guests and entertainment, Showmasters or Massive could easily sell out a wrestling convention and if Jason or Mark were ever interested in any help and/or advice regarding the SPORT of Professional Wrestling, they both have my number.